Guild Wars 2

The likes of Jack Wall are way better (Mass Effect composer)
Jeremy’s music is too repetitive, and he simply rode along too much on the success
of the Morrowind theme.
Jeremy Soule isn’t “bad” per se, just like the Beetles weren’t the worst band of the 1900’s…
But he is HIGHLY overrated and there are better composers.

Here’s an iconic piece by Jack Wall and the rest of the Mass Effect music team:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6PMJYoaGf8
Ftw.

I disagree. I think Jeremy Soule’s music is very evocative, particularly his pieces for the Elder Scrolls series. That piece by Jack Wall is hardly ‘iconic’, it’s just one big generic, space themed crescendo. And if you’re going to try and slam possibly the most revered band of all time in a backhanded comment, at least spell ‘The Beatles’ correctly.

Oh, I guess that shows how little I care about the Beatles and their generic, uninspiring music.
The Beatles are just like Jeremy: They put money before art.
Why else would you reuse the same theme three times so flagrantly?
Have you even tried playing TES theme on piano?
“As-cen-ding steps, As-cen-ding steps, A lit-tle break, and des-cen-ding steps….”
Yeah, really creative. I too find it nice, and evocative.
But then it’s just like: “Ok that was good, new music plz.”
You can diss the spectre induction song all you like, it doesn’t change the fact that something completely different is played in the next scene, and the next, and the next….

The Elder Scrolls theme was reused three times because it was a staple of that series, and a different theme altogether would’ve felt out of place. It was quite well varied, and variations on a theme are perfectly legitimate. If you’re looking for something richer and more evocative than these, to the point whereby you’re complaining on forums, perhaps you should look beyond the gaming music scene to actual classical music, both historic and new. There’s plenty about, although I’m sure it won’t live up to your lofty expectations, defined by Jack Walls’ magnum opus.

Xenharmonic.3125:

Oh, I guess that shows how little I care about the Beatles and their generic, uninspiring music.
The Beatles are just like Jeremy: They put money before art.
Why else would you reuse the same theme three times so flagrantly?
Have you even tried playing TES theme on piano?
“As-cen-ding steps, As-cen-ding steps, A lit-tle break, and des-cen-ding steps….”
Yeah, really creative. I too find it nice, and evocative.
But then it’s just like: “Ok that was good, new music plz.”
You can diss the spectre induction song all you like, it doesn’t change the fact that something completely different is played in the next scene, and the next, and the next….

Turn off the computer and stop embarrasing yourself.

Do you listen to the Beatles or are you just the kind of person that has heard their “hits” The Beatles broke ground for a myriad of genres, changed the way music was recorded, and changed the way the industry was ran.

That being said, I agree with Potent. Jack Wall is nothing special. At least if you consider Jeremy Soule to not be special.

MidnightSun.7964:

Do you listen to the Beatles or are you just the kind of person that has heard their “hits” The Beatles broke ground for a myriad of genres, changed the way music was recorded, and changed the way the industry was ran.

That being said, I agree with Potent. Jack Wall is nothing special. At least if you consider Jeremy Soule to not be special.

The Beatles hardly changed ANYTHING about recording, that was the engineers behind them.
Yes, the Beatles had a few good songs. But there are better musicians that are a LOT less well known.

Oh and @ Classical music—yes, I listen to it. If more people did, they might realise how mediocre Jeremy Soule really is.

Jeremy Soule makes stunningly beautiful music. The Bastila Theme from KotOR and Guild Wars Factions Theme are some of my absolute favorite pieces of media in the world, let alone music. And he has plenty of other fantastic material. Now it’s fine if you don’t see the beauty as each eye beholds beauty differently. But don’t come here to trash-talk Soule when so many find beauty in his music.

I’m sorry, I don’t take video game or movie music seriously enough to complain about it.

I mean that in that it’s not meant to be parted from the game. A piece that works great in-game or in a movie scene might not be a song you want to listen to by itself.

That’s just the way it is. I’m not saying having game and movie music isn’t important or that it takes no skill – not at all. Just that it’s not meant to be analyzed outside of its context.

I’ve noticed that I feel the quality of music in GW2 is higher than some other games I’ve played and I appreciate that – but I’m not going to rip it out of the game and try to pick it apart.

I’m not a huge fan of the soundtrack either. While the musicianship is definitely there it is very off putting hearing a heavy boroque score throughout the game.

There also seems to be a pattern in video game scores starting from early generations (post the midi piano concerto style) to modern:

~90-95 : Heavy ambient music
~95-00 : Ambient music + main themes
~00-05 : Heavy brass map (?) music + Heavy brass main themes + slight ambience
~05-10 : Heavy orchestral with small choir + Heavy orchestral main themes with small choir
~10-? : Heavy orchestral with 40 man choir + Heavy orchestral main themes with 40 man choir

You’re either a troll, or incredibly misinformed. I listen to classical music, and happen to like Jeremy Soule very much. You are touting your opinion as fact, which it is not. But if you don’t understand how the Beatles changed things somewhat, then there’s little hope for you.

I’ve noticed that Soule’s stuff tends to be very noisy. He has some terrific stuff, but most of it does not make for easy listening.

Guild Wars: Prophecies is filled with great and varied music, but there are maybe 4-5 decent tracks in Factions and Nightfall is forgettable outside of the main theme. Eye of the North gets better but a large chunk of it just sounds harsh.

I like this a lot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9RcDXvYxAs#t=754s

Xenharmonic.3125:

MidnightSun.7964:

Do you listen to the Beatles or are you just the kind of person that has heard their “hits” The Beatles broke ground for a myriad of genres, changed the way music was recorded, and changed the way the industry was ran.

That being said, I agree with Potent. Jack Wall is nothing special. At least if you consider Jeremy Soule to not be special.

The Beatles hardly changed ANYTHING about recording, that was the engineers behind them.
Yes, the Beatles had a few good songs. But there are better musicians that are a LOT less well known.

Oh and @ Classical music—yes, I listen to it. If more people did, they might realise how mediocre Jeremy Soule really is.

Haha, failed wannabe musician with delusions of grandeur alert.

Sure, The Beatles were truly mediocre. That’s why Brian Wilson went mad creating Pet Sounds because of them. But then again, Brian Wilson is probably an average song writer too hey.

Seriously, your whole argument is based on personal opinion which for most people is invalid and you wield it like a gospel.

I mean, elvis was kitten hey, he didn’t even write his own songs (mostly).

Kitten.

Ps: some of us know what malaka means, and just so the mods know you circumnavigated the swear filter and thought you were clever doing it, it means wan ker in Greek.

You do come across as a right Richard Edward mate.

If only there was some way to play your own music in game…

Oh wait.

Jeremy does some great stuff. But I dont think you can argue that he isnt a little repetitive. I mean, check some of the stuff from this game

97 (thunderstorm)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzoLP8Hb66k

92 (No idea what it’s called. But IIRC it’s used during big boss battles. I know ive heard it a few times during dungeon explorables vs the end bosses)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuKsDVNuRjs

in 97, just before the first minute, compare that to 92 at around 30 seconds. They’re incredibly similar.

Eva you should probably check the word “Malaka” in a dictionary…

Yeah! You know what else? I hate how that Hans Zimmer guy has just been riding this bellowing low brass thing for years, what a hack. Pick a dynamic range and stay there, buddy, this up-and-down crap has been done to DEATH. And get some synth, man, for real, metal instruments have been around for LITERALLY hundreds of years.

Okay, back to reality. Jeremy Soule is a wonderful composer. Jack Wall is a wonderful composer. If you think Jack Wall didn’t ride his own coattails, have you ever listened to the whole ME2 soundtrack? It’s two whole discs of five different songs. He’s got a voice, a real voice, and he sticks to it. So does Soule. That’s just life. And they’re awesome.

Oh, and another lazy jerk who just writes his own sparkly-rainbow-subtle-as-a-brick-to-the-face crap over and over? That John Williams guy. What a joke.

I don’t think Soule is overrated at all. Sure, some of his tracks carry similar themes but they’re hardly repetitive. GW2 boasts one of the best ‘RPG’ soundtracks I’ve heard in years.

I disagree with the OP. Jeremy Soule is one of the best composers around, and has created some of the greatest music for video games there is. Jack Wall is good also he did Myst Exile which I enjoyed, but his resume hardly compares to the legendary music Jeremy Soule has provided for some of the greatest RPGs in video game history.

my problem is GW1 music was all the time i was used to it and it is NOSTOLGIC.

i have heard maybe three times i heard all the music in this game and even though its awesome… i hardly hear it.

and since i noticed this issue i turned the MUSIC up higher than all the other things.

but I hardly ever hear it.

what gives… where is the music man

Zeph.1260:

my problem is GW1 music was all the time i was used to it and it is NOSTOLGIC.

i have heard maybe three times i heard all the music in this game and even though its awesome… i hardly hear it.

and since i noticed this issue i turned the MUSIC up higher than all the other things.

but I hardly ever hear it.

what gives… where is the music man

I’ve heard it fairly often. Have you adjusted your audio options to have shorter intervals between tracks? That eliminates the ‘silent’ period between tracks and leads to constant music. It also depends on the zone you’re in, some tracks seem to not play at all in certain zones whilst they’re a lot more common in others.

O hey music thread about opinions on singers and song writers better drop my own off and see who agrees and disagrees then debate it for 30 more post

In all seriousness Mass effect music was generic for a space game(OPINION) and most fantasy games have very generic music to there corresponding genre the music and both TES:III-V and in Guild Wars fit the scenes very well compared to others (OPINION) and I find nothing wrong with this.As this is a post simple to incite a debate or argument and if I could I would rather lock or see this locked.

I’m a fan of Jeremy’s compositions, morrowind in particular really pumps my nads.

Potent.2369:

I disagree. I think Jeremy Soule’s music is very evocative, particularly his pieces for the Elder Scrolls series. That piece by Jack Wall is hardly ‘iconic’, it’s just one big generic, space themed crescendo. And if you’re going to try and slam possibly the most revered band of all time in a backhanded comment, at least spell ‘The Beatles’ correctly.

Equalizing popularity with quality shows just how shallow people really are.

Jeremy soul copy/pastes his own music each and everytime in every game. even in GW2 you can hear 1:1 pieces of morrowind/oblivion and skyrim and not just little pieces but the meat of the older tracks. Like i said 1:1. its shamelessly copied and anyone willing to be honest about it would agree as it is unmistakable. someone should make a youtube comparison , then no one would be able to deny it anymore.

Oblivion had 1:1 tracks from morrowind ,skyrim had 1:1 tracks from morrowind and oblivion, GW2 has 1:1 tracks taken from morrowind,obvlivion and skyrim

See a pattern here?

With skyrim the main track “dovhakin” was so revered (and rightfully so) and most atribute this to jeremy soul. Problem is though that jeremy had little to do with the creation of the track other then the technical side of things. It was the main director that was responsible for that specific track. The rest was just once again a copy paste job by jeremy of his previous work while switching a few instruments out for others and change the BPM of the tracks.

Most gamers just repeat his name and hail it because they dont know any better and it is the only game musicians name they know and therefore he must be great !

pop effect.

Smackjack.5071:

Potent.2369:

I disagree. I think Jeremy Soule’s music is very evocative, particularly his pieces for the Elder Scrolls series. That piece by Jack Wall is hardly ‘iconic’, it’s just one big generic, space themed crescendo. And if you’re going to try and slam possibly the most revered band of all time in a backhanded comment, at least spell ‘The Beatles’ correctly.

Equalizing popularity with quality shows just how shallow people really are.

Jeremy soul copy/pastes his own music each and everytime in every game. even in GW2 you can hear 1:1 pieces of morrowind/oblivion and skyrim and not just little pieces but the meat of the older tracks. Like i said 1:1. its shamelessly copied and anyone willing to be honest about it would agree as it is unmistakable. someone should make a youtube comparison , then no one would be able to deny it anymore.

Oblivion had 1:1 tracks from morrowind ,skyrim had 1:1 tracks from morrowind and oblivion, GW2 has 1:1 tracks taken from morrowind,obvlivion and skyrim

See a pattern here?

With skyrim the main track “dovhakin” was so revered (and rightfully so) and most atribute this to jeremy soul. Problem is though that jeremy had little to do with the creation of the track other then the technical side of things. It was the main director that was responsible for that specific track. The rest was just once again a copy paste job by jeremy of his previous work while switching a few instruments out for others and change the BPM of the tracks.

Most gamers just repeat his name and hail it because they dont know any better and it is the only game musicians name they know and therefore he must be great !

pop effect.

I’ve been a classical musician for more than half my life, and I’m a huge fan of Soule’s work. If you had at all listened to all 4 GW1 soundtracks, you would not be rattling off your overly exaggerated opinion as fact. Re-using and re-combining themes and motifs is not the same as copy and pasting. The musically trained call it “Theme and variations”, a legitimate compositional form used by many great classical composers including Beethoven(see symphony #5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4IRMYuE1hI).

Please learn something about music before making such an ignorant statement

Jeremy Soule is a fine composer who defined GW’s roots.

Though, I wouldn’t mind seeing the guy who composed for Nightfall help out with the eventual Elona expansion. A lot of Nightfall’s music was REALLY memorable and fits more with Guild Wars 2’s heavy emphasis on ambience.

I disagree. I love the music in this game. Fits perfectly.

Also personally I think Skyrim’s soundtrack is the best videogame soundtrack I’ve ever heard. Not a big fan of the Mass Effect sountracks.

I like Jeremy Soule…. I have no idea why your hating on him. the Music Fits. Think of Soule as Anet’s Uetmatsu if you must.

I didn’t read the entire thread because I only felt a need to say I absolutely disagree. Jeremy Soule is one of the greatest composers of our time, he’s innovative despite the fact he makes music for so so many video games. He recently orchestrated for Skyrim, yet the snowy areas of Guild Wars have little resemblance to it. Please, he’s doing his finest and you were bordering on insult.

I personally have listened to the Soule’s work from the Elder Scrolls series several times over, and upon getting the soundtrack for Guild Wars 2 I was impressed by how distinct it was. Not only is it appropriate to reuse themes when you are composing for several games in the same series because fans often like the similarities and connections, but I haven’t been able to pick up on any “1:1” lifts in the Guild Wars 2 soundtrack after trying to find some. The fact that you didn’t state a single example or track comparison and even shrugged off the work of proving your own point, simply saying “someone should make a youtube comparison”, tells me that you are confusing your opinion with fact.

I’ve found myself following along the track in my head, but I get quite surprised when my brain tries to go along Morrowind’s melody, and Guild Wars 2 suddenly goes another. There are some very similar portions.

I think one or two people are confusing repetition with musical style here. Yes Jeremy Soule does use some similar motifs and themes on occasion, but then again you could say that about Beethoven, Mozart, and pretty much every other major classical composer of note.

In fact, if one has a hallmark sound, it is generally indicative that one has made an impact on music with one’s ouevre. Even if you don’t know everything Mozart ever wrote, upon hearing something from him, if you are at all familiar with his work, you find yourself saying – yup, I know who that is, as you do with the vast majority of decent classical composers.

It is cetainly true that many elements of the soundtrack from GW have resurfaced in GW2 as we know, but then again, since it was in fact a very good soundtrack in the first place, and many of the themes were intended to be motifs for certain geographic areas, that actually has a valid reason for being the case.

As for the poster who thinks The Beatles made mediocre and repetitive music, well, I can only assume that they are either very young and aren’t aware of placing music in its relevant timeframe to properly understand impact in an historical context, or they have a tin ear, or possibly both. I’d point out a list of examples worth noting in an attempt to steer them right, but I’m afraid it would quite literally fall on deaf ears, so I won’t bother at length and instead point out just one; get hold of the sheet music for, and check out, the very clever circular, then switching chord progression in Paul McCartney’s Here There and Everywhere for an example of elegant simplicity mixed with ingenious touches. It’s worth noting here that John Lennon said that was the best song on the album (Revolver), George Martin said it was his favourite McCartney song, and it was voted the 4th best song of all time in a Mojo poll.

If you do happen to know about music incidentally, Here There and Everywhere uses a (technically) discordant shift from G Major to G Minor via E Minor, and the change happens to coincide with the lyric ‘changing my life’, so even the lyrics are tied to the tonal shift in a clever way. If you’re missing stuff like that, then you really have no idea about what you are writing about from a musical standpoint.

All of this is probably why McCartney is listed in Guinness as the most successful songwriter of all time, with over ninety top ten records, has won two Grammys, an Ivor Novello, even had a planet named after him, and wrote the most covered song of all time (Yesterday). Not to mention that McCartney was recently was awarded the Légion d’Honneur by France for services to music.

And as for the notion that the engineers were the creative types where The Beatles output goes – and by that I presume George Martin – whilst it is certainly true that Martin’s input cannot be overstated, it is probably more the case that Martin is ‘the fifth Beatle’ rather than the sole creative force, after all, even the best engineer in the world needs some inspiration and material to work with, and if you read Martin’s autobiographical writings (well worth doing), you’ll note that he readily admits this is the case with The Beatles output, of which he is an ardent admirer.

Back with JS though, really, his audio inputs for both GW and GW 2 are an essential piece of the puzzle which come together (note the Beatles reference) to make GW very much greater than the sum of its parts. It just wouldn’t be the same without it.

Al

Gordunk.7289:

Smackjack.5071:

Potent.2369:

I disagree. I think Jeremy Soule’s music is very evocative, particularly his pieces for the Elder Scrolls series. That piece by Jack Wall is hardly ‘iconic’, it’s just one big generic, space themed crescendo. And if you’re going to try and slam possibly the most revered band of all time in a backhanded comment, at least spell ‘The Beatles’ correctly.

Equalizing popularity with quality shows just how shallow people really are.

Jeremy soul copy/pastes his own music each and everytime in every game. even in GW2 you can hear 1:1 pieces of morrowind/oblivion and skyrim and not just little pieces but the meat of the older tracks. Like i said 1:1. its shamelessly copied and anyone willing to be honest about it would agree as it is unmistakable. someone should make a youtube comparison , then no one would be able to deny it anymore.

Oblivion had 1:1 tracks from morrowind ,skyrim had 1:1 tracks from morrowind and oblivion, GW2 has 1:1 tracks taken from morrowind,obvlivion and skyrim

See a pattern here?

With skyrim the main track “dovhakin” was so revered (and rightfully so) and most atribute this to jeremy soul. Problem is though that jeremy had little to do with the creation of the track other then the technical side of things. It was the main director that was responsible for that specific track. The rest was just once again a copy paste job by jeremy of his previous work while switching a few instruments out for others and change the BPM of the tracks.

Most gamers just repeat his name and hail it because they dont know any better and it is the only game musicians name they know and therefore he must be great !

pop effect.

I’ve been a classical musician for more than half my life, and I’m a huge fan of Soule’s work. If you had at all listened to all 4 GW1 soundtracks, you would not be rattling off your overly exaggerated opinion as fact. Re-using and re-combining themes and motifs is not the same as copy and pasting. The musically trained call it “Theme and variations”, a legitimate compositional form used by many great classical composers including Beethoven(see symphony #5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4IRMYuE1hI).

Please learn something about music before making such an ignorant statement

I produce music have worked in studios did audio engineering @ SAE new york so what ? What soule does is far away from theme and variations since his ‘theme and variations are 1:1 the same outside of different instruments and pace and his ’’theme and variations’’ <lol i cant even say that with a straight face in this case he has used 1:1 on every single game he has worked on. Like i explained he is not the one who composed the main theme song for skyrim and coincidentally it is about the only track that is not a straight morphed copy of soule’s previous work simply because he did not create it.

I’m not claiming that Soule is talentless but lazyness and missing creativity i do so easily attribute to him.

Chock.5624:

I think one or two people are confusing repetition with musical style here. Yes Jeremy Soule does use some similar motifs and themes on occasion,

Soul’s actions have nothing to do with ‘similarity’ at all the pieces are not similar but exactly the same bar the small details i mentioned and also this is not on ‘occasion’ you can hear the exact same choruses used with different but similar instruments and pacing in each and every title he produced.

As far as I’m aware, repetition in music is due to popular and common tastes. So when you’re trying to create a track that will instantly appeal to a mass market, your hands are kind of bound in terms of what you can use.

This comedy video highlights how pretty much every single pop music hit in the last few decades all sound identical, and can be woven together into one individual song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I Don’t watch it if you want to retain any respect you have for pop music artists. This video will shatter it all.

It’s not that Soule lacks creativity or talent. It’s that he needs to create music that is instantly enjoyable since this is a mainstream game. If you want variety and sweeping scores, try Classic FM.

You lost what little respect you had when you said The Beatles are overrated. Fyi I do think the soundtrack is lacking but I don’t know much about video game composers other than Inon Zur, Jeremy Soule, Jack Wall and my favorite Mark Morgan.

I love the music of this game, I really do.

At least one of the tracks gives me a very Oblivion-y feel, but I don’t think of that as repetitive or anything. Just recognizable.

Actually, when I heard that you could put your own music into the game, one of the first soundtracks I thought of was the Total Annihilation score. Only some time later did I realize that too was made by Soule!