Guild Wars 2

Remove vigor would completely break Ele. They need to dodge all the time to compensate for their lowest armor and health out of all classes.

They are nerfing mesmer’s vigor trait and not elementalist, partly because of the class mechanics and considering Elementalist’s Renewing Stamina is a MAJOR trait compared to Mesmer having perma virgor on a MINOR trait.

Removing vigor completely is a bad idea.

The Great Al.2546:

I would love to see Vigor gone from the game, or at least made very hard to gain as a boon.

The whole reasoning behind the current Berserker meta is because the ‘best’ players can dodge whenever necessary, removing the need to trait defensively. How can they dodge so much? Permanent or near-permanent vigor gained through extremely accessable traits and sigils).

For example, the fact that a guardian has access to essentially permanent vigor means that they don’t have to rely on their various blinds and aegis. Removing that vigor means that they have to play more cautiously and their party wide support is more greatly appreciated.

Thoughts?

Guardian HAS to play cautiously all the time. Low mobility, no soft CC, bottom tier hp…the Guards that don’t play cautiously get get shredded quickly

Dynnen.6405:

The Great Al.2546:

I would love to see Vigor gone from the game, or at least made very hard to gain as a boon.

The whole reasoning behind the current Berserker meta is because the ‘best’ players can dodge whenever necessary, removing the need to trait defensively. How can they dodge so much? Permanent or near-permanent vigor gained through extremely accessable traits and sigils).

For example, the fact that a guardian has access to essentially permanent vigor means that they don’t have to rely on their various blinds and aegis. Removing that vigor means that they have to play more cautiously and their party wide support is more greatly appreciated.

Thoughts?

Guardian HAS to play cautiously all the time. Low mobility, no soft CC, bottom tier hp…the Guards that don’t play cautiously get get shredded quickly

^This

Ever been kited by a mesmer, or condition spammed/bombed before? I know I have a bunch of times. Without any soft CC or actual decent swiftness uptime(Convenient, not the bull attached to staff SoS or Retreat!) guardian’s are bottom tier of mobility and pressure tree(not as bad as necro mobility but necro has a crap ton of soft CC and such to control foes) Guardians already have to choose between survivability or the ability to do damage. Spvp bunker guard is the only real TPVP use for them, and some certain extents, meditation guard for DPS orientated builds. Nerfing vigor on guard is gutting their survivability more. Lowest HP tier, and has to be active with defense abilities (Aegis, Blinds) protection is only good against power builds. Guardians easily get gunned down by condition overloads(Not enough condition removal to keep up with reapplication) due to low Health pool. Vigor nerfs will only lead to less healing from selfless daring. it’s also possible they are reworking energy sigil as well.

I do think that vigor should be reduced, but so should the amount damage one can receive from multiple one-shot champions in-game.

imagine fighting minion necro with no vigor

jihm.2315:

imagine fighting minion necro with no vigor

I play a necro primarily. Every time I fight a minion master, it’s without Vigor.

Funnily enough, I rarely lose those fights. Though I admit, I can’t comment as much on other professions.

A wholesale NERF to “vigor” is a terrible idea for those of us that are casual (non-PvP) players and echos the major nerfs from Guild Wars I which made classes useless. It will have the same negative effect accross the PvE landscape and may begin the death spiral for PvE GW2 as the many nerfs did to the GWI. It is difficult enough to survive with the addition of “torment” etc, for those of us who do not have “ascend” or even “exotic” armor. Again you skew towards the top 5% of players, and let the majority struggle.

Okay, I clearly missed the unspoken theme of this vigor hate campaign. This is clearly about pvp and not pve. I couldn’t initially understand why anyone in a clear state of mind would think that low hp classes in pve need to endure more one shots, but upon further thought….it became clear that this was about difficulty killing specific classes in pvp (and by extension wvw).

I have no input on any pvp related situation, so my only comments will be to clearly state that you are talking about a pvp situation and to make sure to mention that this needs to be split from pve.

Lucentfir.7430:

Dynnen.6405:

The Great Al.2546:

I would love to see Vigor gone from the game, or at least made very hard to gain as a boon.

The whole reasoning behind the current Berserker meta is because the ‘best’ players can dodge whenever necessary, removing the need to trait defensively. How can they dodge so much? Permanent or near-permanent vigor gained through extremely accessable traits and sigils).

For example, the fact that a guardian has access to essentially permanent vigor means that they don’t have to rely on their various blinds and aegis. Removing that vigor means that they have to play more cautiously and their party wide support is more greatly appreciated.

Thoughts?

Guardian HAS to play cautiously all the time. Low mobility, no soft CC, bottom tier hp…the Guards that don’t play cautiously get get shredded quickly

^This

Ever been kited by a mesmer, or condition spammed/bombed before? I know I have a bunch of times. Without any soft CC or actual decent swiftness uptime(Convenient, not the bull attached to staff SoS or Retreat!) guardian’s are bottom tier of mobility and pressure tree(not as bad as necro mobility but necro has a crap ton of soft CC and such to control foes) Guardians already have to choose between survivability or the ability to do damage. Spvp bunker guard is the only real TPVP use for them, and some certain extents, meditation guard for DPS orientated builds. Nerfing vigor on guard is gutting their survivability more. Lowest HP tier, and has to be active with defense abilities (Aegis, Blinds) protection is only good against power builds. Guardians easily get gunned down by condition overloads(Not enough condition removal to keep up with reapplication) due to low Health pool. Vigor nerfs will only lead to less healing from selfless daring. it’s also possible they are reworking energy sigil as well.

^This ^This ^This

Bear in mind that no where in Mr. McClain’s “update notes” is there a split for PvE, WvW and PvP for the trait “VIGOR” noted. He says:

“We’re continuing to lower the amount of vigor available to all professions, especially from sources with low trait point investments. We’ve also made a few minor adjustments to healing skills to make them more reliable.”

So does your PvE guardian become extinct? We have too few useful skills as it is.

I still don’t understand where this vigor hate is coming from. It doesn’t make sense. Less vigor uptime essentially means TTK is even shorter.

AlumAtWar.8206:

Bear in mind that no where in Mr. McClain’s “update notes” is a split for PvE and PvP nerf gor this trait noted. He says:

“We’re continuing to lower the amount of vigor available to all professions, especially from sources with low trait point investments. We’ve also made a few minor adjustments to healing skills to make them more reliable.”

So does your PvE guardian become extinct?

You really don’t need vigor in PvE, it’s a nice to have, but with all the blocks and blinds available to professions vigor is just icing on the cake. I’d rather have blinds and blocks because they take away less from dps like dodging does.

Blinds are especially good for bosses fights.

haviz.1340:

Blinds are especially good for bosses fights.

Not so much.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unshakable