Guild Wars 2

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

spoj.9672:

Yeah I know that. I still think rabid and carrion do way too much for the amount of defence they have. People would agree with this statement when talking about Dire, so why not rabid/carrion?

Because Rabid/Carrion are two offensive stats, one defensive? I would hope they have decent damage output, and it’s still lower than most power builds.

Also, since when were bomb engineers ranged? Since when were Sword/Sword warriors ranged?

Im not saying nerf condi damage. Im just saying the whole condi damage build system is borked. You barely lose any pressure for going more defensive (dire) and going full glass (rampager) does less damage. Also undead runes further encourage this warped risk vs reward. Can you not see the problem with that?

I said almost all. Not all. Maybe i over exaggerated a bit.

Pretty sure condi engis use nades? And yeah warrior is one of the exceptions, but it also uses a longbow which is ranged.

Rampager is a really odd set. While the only set with condition damage that lacks a defensive stat, it also has neither condition damage nor power as a primary stat. Rampagers is used for hybrid builds that go with many “on crit” effects, since they get no ferocity to back up the more frequent crits.

So, for a “glass cannon” condition spec, the appropriate gear doesn’t even exist.

spoj.9672:

Yeah I know that. I still think rabid and carrion do way too much for the amount of defence they have. People would agree with this statement when talking about Dire, so why not rabid/carrion?

Not to mention almost all condi builds are ranged. Which reduces the risk even further. Its the main reason i hate it so much. Its not challenging at all to play yet it achieves such strong results in so many situations.

Wait, what?
Even though we have all of the previous threads showing knights gear out damages rabid gear, yet they have the same defensive stats? The fact that it has been shown that soldiers gear will out damage dire gear? Valkyrie out damages carrions.

Do you have any videos of your test you did with all of those gear sets in comparison test? How many professions did you test them on? I did mine on my mesmer, warrior, engineer, necro, I didn’t bother with my ranger, ele, thief, or guardian. As the later four, I have no desire to run condition builds. (yes I have leveled all to 80 in almost exclsively PvP and WvW)

spoj.9672:

Pretty sure condi engis use nades?

Grenades only have 2 that do condition damage out of the 6 grenade skills. Shrapnel grenade does 12 of bleeding and Poison grenade does 3s of poison. The other tool belt and geenade are direct damage only, flash grenade is a blind and freeze grenade is 2s of chill. Tell me this though. If you have to ask what skills a profession has that apply damage conditions, how do you feel you have a place to declare to us that they are OP?

coglin.1867:

spoj.9672:

Yeah I know that. I still think rabid and carrion do way too much for the amount of defence they have. People would agree with this statement when talking about Dire, so why not rabid/carrion?

Not to mention almost all condi builds are ranged. Which reduces the risk even further. Its the main reason i hate it so much. Its not challenging at all to play yet it achieves such strong results in so many situations.

Wait, what?
Even though we have all of the previous threads showing knights gear out damages rabid gear, yet they have the same defensive stats?

Actually, Knight’s is higher on the defense (Toughness primary) than Rabid is (Condition Damage primary)

Condition damage is independant of power and precision. Power builds synergise which is why knights would do more. Doesnt change that dire is too strong and the risk for rabid is non existant. Theres imbalances all over many of the gearsets. Any defensive gear makes the game completely faceroll. What i dislike is the reversed risk vs reward when dealing with condi damage. But it wouldnt bother me if there was actually a proper glass condi set which actually out damaged the others while having no passive defence.

TL;DR
I dont mind defensive gear being op for damage as long as i can go full glass in condi or power and out damage them. But thats not possible with condi atm.

In my opinion, ANET should change the way that condi damage is calculated. For direct damage, a person cares about power, precision and ferocity. For condi, you really only need to care about condi damage and condi duration. Because of only needing two stats, it allows people to spec much more defensively and still do a lot of damage.

Instead condi damage should be changed:
1. Cut the damage of all base condi damage by 25%
2. Allow condi damage to “crit” meaning precision is now an important stat
3. Crit condi damage would be allow a fixed 50% damage increase over base (ferocity doesn’t matter)

So, how does this work in practice? A rough example and just using a 100 condi tick as an example.

Today: 100 condi damage
Future with no crit: 75 damage
Future with crit: 112.5 damage

spoj.9672:

Condition damage is independant of power and precision. Power builds synergise which is why knights would do more. Doesnt change that dire is too strong and the risk for rabid is non existant. Theres imbalances all over many of the gearsets. Any defensive gear makes the game completely faceroll. What i dislike is the reversed risk vs reward when dealing with condi damage. But it wouldnt bother me if there was actually a proper glass condi set which actually out damaged the others while having no passive defence.

So what your saying is that although other have broken the damage down, as well as posting video after video of evidence, you have no actual proof and suggest it is a problem on your word alone? The risk/reward is the same. That has been proven solidly. As to a pure glass condi set, I would love that on occasion. Perhaps main stat condition damage, precision for the condition proc traits, and say 5% condition dueation on each piece of gear, weapon, and accessory, so one would have 100% condition duration with a full set of gear and 6 points in the trait line of condition damage with nightmare runes.

style.6173:

For condi, you really only need to care about condi damage and condi duration. Because of only needing two stats, it allows people to spec much more defensively and still do a lot of damage.

Incorrect. They care greatly about precision, as it proc the various traits that proc conditions, as well as optimal sigil procs for sigil of torment for example.

Id direct damage users go for all 3 offensive stats, they greatly out damage any condi build with two.

style.6173:

In my opinion, ANET should change the way that condi damage is calculated. For direct damage, a person cares about power, precision and ferocity. For condi, you really only need to care about condi damage and condi duration. Because of only needing two stats, it allows people to spec much more defensively and still do a lot of damage.

This is build dependent and direct damage builds do the same thing often. Why do you think a warrior gets away with going 4-6 points in defense and still put out it’s amount of damage? Why do you think a elementalist can get away with 4-6 points in water and 6 points in the boon duration tree and still put out good damage?

The answer? Fury/Might/Runes/Sigils.

A meditation guardian build in WvW can have 3k+ armor and still hit hard because of strength in numbers+6 honor with some burst healing from meditations if they chose. The vast majority of popular direct damage builds out there aren’t full Zerker with 6 in power tree, 6 critical chance tree with the last 2 in crit damage tree.

Tanky with good damage is far from exclusive to condition builds. If 2.5k+ armor is when we define tanky or even 2.6k+ there are alot of popular direct damage builds that hit that especially the heavies. Thief and Mesmer are probably the 2 classes that can get away with less then 2.4k armor on a consistent basis just from my personal experience.

style.6173:

Instead condi damage should be changed:
1. Cut the damage of all base condi damage by 25%
2. Allow condi damage to “crit” meaning precision is now an important stat
3. Crit condi damage would be allow a fixed 50% damage increase over base (ferocity doesn’t matter)

And this helps to balance a game where conditions are already weaker than direct damage how, exactly?

Carighan.6758:

style.6173:

Instead condi damage should be changed:
1. Cut the damage of all base condi damage by 25%
2. Allow condi damage to “crit” meaning precision is now an important stat
3. Crit condi damage would be allow a fixed 50% damage increase over base (ferocity doesn’t matter)

And this helps to balance a game where conditions are already weaker than direct damage how, exactly?

Ha, id personally take that trade in a heartbeat.

Any condition build with more then 35% crit chance will get a damage buff. I’d see an increase of as much as 20% more damage for myself.
Because, you know, already stacking a bunch of precision because its already important despite that people wrongfully keep droning condition builds only need one stat.

So thank you for that significant buff Style, didnt expect it comming from you. Will my
condition crits also proc more on-crit stuff! Yay infinite proccing conditions? No?

Ofcourse this would probably make Precision the most important stat for a condition build… Funny that…