Guild Wars 2

You may not. But i do. Thieves for example. You literally cannot leave the house without -40% food, because 3 out of 4 people are condition spammer. So anyone wanting to put a dent onto those tanks with almots glascannon-like damage output WILL have to use the food. The runes are just icing on the cake.

And you said it yourself. Why should a warrior be able to be the king of melee damage and pressure and at the same time be able to be so fast that even someone specialized on kiting has a hard time to keep them away? You have to pay for the advantage, otherwise its simply OP as hell. Currently you cannot go toe to toe with a warrior unless you´re a warrior as well because a) all auto attacks except maybe sword already hit like a truck, b) all those weapon sets have CC and/or mobility skills, and c) because of the 5 second weapon swap you cannot really decide when to go toe to toe. Some time Eviscerate or Immob+100b will come and some time they -WILL- land, at which point the fight is most likely over. As a thief i can decide to dodge masses of autoattacks OR wait for Eviscerate – both get me killed pretty fast while the warrior will not feel a lot of my hits.

Seriosuly though – when the 5 second weapon swap would be gone, i´d see a lot less problems with warriors. because then you´d know way better when to expect a death blow. But something must be done. Nerf mobility so warrior can be kited. Or nerf damage so warrior may be almost flying everywhere like now (literally) but hit like a wet noodle. Or nerf the sustain, to make a warrior truly go glass for his damage. of course over-expressing those points, but you know where i come from.

Go play a power guardian or power engi, it would help you to understand whats the problem with warriors is. Both need to get close to deal most of their damage and both are tanky OR do tons of damage.

xbutcherx.3861:

alchemyst.2165:

Lol I love how all the warriors are trying to draw the attention off their class by talking about thieves. I just love it.

Just love how you trying to get warrior nerf but the sad part that we already been nerfed more than once, so I want to see the perma blind and perma evade nerfed to the ground and while at it please add 2 more seconds to reveal.

Lmao dude what are you going on about, seriously. I have a warrior, she’s 100% full zerk with scholar runes, 6-0-0-2-6 full evis cheese build, no guts plenty of glory.

So many times I get jumped by a thief, get hit by maybe one backstab, they’ll shadowstep out of one eviscerate, but by the time the next one’s up, I’ll have endured so much pain and shield stanced through that kitten. The thief gets one-shot.

If you seriously think thieves need a nerf more than warriors, I got bad (and good) news for you son. The bad news: You are delusional. The good news? Warriors won’t get a nerf.

But on the topic of this thread, Eviscerate is a stupidly high-hitting skill that can seriously screw stuff up in a group (and timing them well has won me 1v3’s by just oneshotting each opponent). I made Frostfang for my warrior, it’s the only legendary I made not for my guardian (my main). Why? It’s just so easy. When I want to mash my face on one key to win I get on my warrior. When I want to actually think (about 95% of the time), I use the guardian.

ventusthunder.5067:

xbutcherx.3861:

alchemyst.2165:

Lol I love how all the warriors are trying to draw the attention off their class by talking about thieves. I just love it.

Just love how you trying to get warrior nerf but the sad part that we already been nerfed more than once, so I want to see the perma blind and perma evade nerfed to the ground and while at it please add 2 more seconds to reveal.

Lmao dude what are you going on about, seriously. I have a warrior, she’s 100% full zerk with scholar runes, 6-0-0-2-6 full evis cheese build, no guts plenty of glory.

So many times I get jumped by a thief, get hit by maybe one backstab, they’ll shadowstep out of one eviscerate, but by the time the next one’s up, I’ll have endured so much pain and shield stanced through that kitten. The thief gets one-shot.

If you seriously think thieves need a nerf more than warriors, I got bad (and good) news for you son. The bad news: You are delusional. The good news? Warriors won’t get a nerf.

But on the topic of this thread, Eviscerate is a stupidly high-hitting skill that can seriously screw stuff up in a group (and timing them well has won me 1v3’s by just oneshotting each opponent). I made Frostfang for my warrior, it’s the only legendary I made not for my guardian (my main). Why? It’s just so easy. When I want to mash my face on one key to win I get on my warrior. When I want to actually think (about 95% of the time), I use the guardian.

Please wiki Sarcasm, I do not care if thieves or any other profession gets buffed or nerfed, just trying to defend my warrior from all these whiners.

Well i am a warrior since day one, and i do think they should reduce its dmg from Evi.
Its mostly the combination of Axe + intel runes + celestial amu + strength runes + burst mastery..

Now nerfing one of those would nerf allot more builds. so its more logical to nerf the dmg on Evi.

What i hate most is berserker/celestial warrs still does ALLOT of dmg from impale, that skill should apply the stacks right from the start so you CAN cleanse it.. now you have to wait before it can be removed..
Or they have to increase the cooldown of that skill.

Mayama.1854:

Grimreaper.5370:

Axe is fine IMO, if you’re getting hit for 12k with an eviscerate well then you’re paying the price for being glass.

What DOES need some re-work though is hammer stun chains, and killshot. Have you seen multiple glass warriors using killshot together? Hory sheet that stuff is bananas

I got hit for 10k with 2900 armor. So glass equals not maxing to 3500 armor…

This sounds like a WvW problem, where all hell breaks loose and tons of broken builds for every class are available. Try playing in SPvP

Coming from someone who takes duels very seriously, and loves SPvP. Warriors don’t seem very OP to fight unless they use Bolas/kick with hammer. Yeah some of their f1 skills do hit very hard, but their burst skills are also just oh so easy to dodge. Eviscerates animation is incredibly distinguishable.

“But what about the pindown, eviscerate combo? What about Shield Bash, eviscerate? What if the warrior tries to CC you first?!”

Pindown also has a fairly noticeable animation to it which makes it pretty easy to dodge, although I’ll admit it ain’t an easy skill to see when warriors go n make them selves all bright and shiny with very light white armor. Shield Bash is another skill which is very easy to dodge since there is a slight pause before the shield makes contact with you. Warriors are easy to read… Very few of them will be a challenge to an experienced player.

If you’re having major problems with eviscerate, at least in SPvP, its probably a L2P issue. But that is good yes? This means you can fix your issue and overcome it, go to a duel server and find a warrior to start practicing your dodges with.

I love it how everyone who defends warrior keeps forgetting that eviscerate isnt the only problem. If you decide to dodge ALL eviscerates, you do not have any endurance left for the remaining attacks of the warrior. And auto attacks alone hurt a lot. Keep in mind that you need a double dodge to avoid a CC + Eviscerate combo, and keep in mind you simply cannot keep a warrior pressured and at range! Also you seem to ignore the fact that you -NEED- a dodge to avoid eviscerate. Soft-cc remains too shortly in order to be effective and positioning is completly pointless because Eviscerate even homes in midair, doing 180° turns. So your only option is range, which a warrior can cross too quickly for his melee strength.
If Eviscerate would work like Earthshaker it would be far more balanced than now albeit still with a too short cooldown. Earthshaker doesnt home in, and while it is an AoE, because of it’s ground-targeting you can use positioning to avoid it.

Additionally to all this comes the problem that a glass warrior isnt made out of glass. It has too much sustain, a warrior doesn´t have to choose between damage and tankyness. Once again: They´re currently too mobile or too tanky for their damage, or they´re too mobile and too strong for their tankyness.

So how about some constructive ideas other than L2P? It cannot be a sole L2P issue, period. The same was with thieves and then they got their rightful nerfs. Now the warrior´s at it. There were so many wonderful ideas in this thread which would just balance warriors and not deem them useless.

TheBandicoot.5294:

QQ

Eviscerate is the thread topic smart one, I named plenty of other skills that are comboed with it as well, yet you still act like I’m not even seeing the big picture. Take the time to read, and think. You state that you will run out of endurance just dodging Eviscerates, what kind of statement is that? That skill is available every ~8 – 10 seconds… A dodge should always be available for every eviscerate, with another dodge left over too if you didn’t already use it to prevent shield bash or pindown or w/e else the warrior may have thrown at you prior to eviscerate.

I don’t play warrior anymore, I vs them, and I don’t want to see a class that already has a disadvantage because of all their insanely highlighted telegraphs become less of a challenge.

TheBandicoot.5294:

I love it how everyone who defends warrior keeps forgetting that eviscerate isnt the only problem. If you decide to dodge ALL eviscerates, you do not have any endurance left for the remaining attacks of the warrior. And auto attacks alone hurt a lot. Keep in mind that you need a double dodge to avoid a CC + Eviscerate combo, and keep in mind you simply cannot keep a warrior pressured and at range! Also you seem to ignore the fact that you -NEED- a dodge to avoid eviscerate. Soft-cc remains too shortly in order to be effective and positioning is completly pointless because Eviscerate even homes in midair, doing 180° turns. So your only option is range, which a warrior can cross too quickly for his melee strength.
If Eviscerate would work like Earthshaker it would be far more balanced than now albeit still with a too short cooldown. Earthshaker doesnt home in, and while it is an AoE, because of it’s ground-targeting you can use positioning to avoid it.

Additionally to all this comes the problem that a glass warrior isnt made out of glass. It has too much sustain, a warrior doesn´t have to choose between damage and tankyness. Once again: They´re currently too mobile or too tanky for their damage, or they´re too mobile and too strong for their tankyness.

So how about some constructive ideas other than L2P? It cannot be a sole L2P issue, period. The same was with thieves and then they got their rightful nerfs. Now the warrior´s at it. There were so many wonderful ideas in this thread which would just balance warriors and not deem them useless.

You have time to regenerate endurance normaly between eviscerates. Plus sigils / vigor / evades / ports / blocks / blinds.

“If you decide to dodge ALL (insert skill here), you do not have any endurance left for the remaining attacks of the (insert class here).
What you described its normal to every class.

And two posts later, one watering me down to a QQer and another one trying to detract the focus from warriors to every class, still no constructive ideas about how to bring warriors and Eviscerate down in line balancing-wise.

Grimreaper and Silentnight Warrior – you seem to never have played as non-warriors vs warriors. Because if then you´d know that you cannot keep warrior at range and you´d know going melee would kill you much faster than the warrior. Let me express it once again: A warrior does too much damage while being too tanky and too mobile. Did you get it now or do you still think i´m sitting in my small world of “Dear ArenaNet, nerf stone, paper is fine. Sincerely, Scissors”? Oh, actually bad question – because warriors do not need or have INT and the answer to that would always be “Yes” in online gaming forums.
And the telegraphs are no way a disadvantage. The telegraph on Pin Down gets abused, and all dangerous burst skills only have a cast time of .5 seconds, thus they´re not overly highlighted.

And the wait goes on for constructive ideas like some already been posted.

TheBandicoot.5294:

And two posts later, one watering me down to a QQer and another one trying to detract the focus from warriors to every class, still no constructive ideas about how to bring warriors and Eviscerate down in line balancing-wise.

Grimreaper and Silentnight Warrior – you seem to never have played as non-warriors vs warriors. Because if then you´d know that you cannot keep warrior at range and you´d know going melee would kill you much faster than the warrior. Let me express it once again: A warrior does too much damage while being too tanky and too mobile. Did you get it now or do you still think i´m sitting in my small world of “Dear ArenaNet, nerf stone, paper is fine. Sincerely, Scissors”? Oh, actually bad question – because warriors do not need or have INT and the answer to that would always be “Yes” in online gaming forums.
And the telegraphs are no way a disadvantage. The telegraph on Pin Down gets abused, and all dangerous burst skills only have a cast time of .5 seconds, thus they´re not overly highlighted.

And the wait goes on for constructive ideas like some already been posted.

Bro, are you claiming an axe warrior defeats everything in this game? Are you claiming you have never dodged an eviscerate/pin down/shield bash? If you can not defeat ANY warrior using an axe it is OBVIOUSLY a L2P issue. Please log on to the game click on the PvP icon then go to a 1v1 server and watch people duel. You will notice something very important – People will defeat warriors with other classes!

Does that mean that eciscerate is not OP? Depends who you ask and what skill level you are on. One thing I know is that when I play warrior against bad players who can not dodge it is too kitten easy. I also know when I play the “cheese” axe/sw lb celestial build I still get rocked by thief/mesmer and other classes – in fact a good thief is almost impossible to land an eviscerate against. So in conclusion eviscerate is really strong if you do not know how to dodge yet when I play my necromancer I know going into the fight I will NOT dodge everything and I literally eat warriors for breakfast on my necro… so go ahead and nerf eviscerate

Eviscerate 1 shots me. I do not fight axe warriors because of this. My backstab hits them for 4-7k + sigil damage. They hit me for 15k + sigil damage.

Wolfield.9812:

Eviscerate 1 shots me. I do not fight axe warriors because of this. My backstab hits them for 4-7k + sigil damage. They hit me for 15k + sigil damage.

Shouldn’t run glass cannon against a glass cannon and complain when you lose.

I run 50:50 Berserker:Knight and I rarely see Eviscerate going over 10k under my own power.

TheBandicoot.5294:

And two posts later, one watering me down to a QQer and another one trying to detract the focus from warriors to every class, still no constructive ideas about how to bring warriors and Eviscerate down in line balancing-wise.

Grimreaper and Silentnight Warrior – you seem to never have played as non-warriors vs warriors. Because if then you´d know that you cannot keep warrior at range and you´d know going melee would kill you much faster than the warrior. Let me express it once again: A warrior does too much damage while being too tanky and too mobile. Did you get it now or do you still think i´m sitting in my small world of “Dear ArenaNet, nerf stone, paper is fine. Sincerely, Scissors”? Oh, actually bad question – because warriors do not need or have INT and the answer to that would always be “Yes” in online gaming forums.
And the telegraphs are no way a disadvantage. The telegraph on Pin Down gets abused, and all dangerous burst skills only have a cast time of .5 seconds, thus they´re not overly highlighted.

And the wait goes on for constructive ideas like some already been posted.

I was only saying that what you said aplies to every class, not only warriors. And i still keep that.

I play ele, mesmer, necro, thief, guardian, warrior, engenier and ranger. The last two are my least played professions.

I play them in PvP / WvW / PvE.

In WvW i usually dont duel. I usualy follow my guild. If you have problems with warriors there the problem is not from the class, but from runes / sigils / foods.

In PvP you dont have those issues (the two most viable builds dont have movement skills with the exception of burst skills).

this is true:

- You have time to regenerate endurance normaly between eviscerates. Plus sigils / vigor / evades / ports / blocks / blinds.

“If you decide to dodge ALL (insert skill here), you do not have any endurance left for the remaining attacks of the (insert class here).
What you described its normal to every class. -

Grimreaper.5370:

Coming from someone who takes duels very seriously, and loves SPvP. Warriors don’t seem very OP to fight unless they use Bolas/kick with hammer. Yeah some of their f1 skills do hit very hard, but their burst skills are also just oh so easy to dodge. Eviscerates animation is incredibly distinguishable.

“But what about the pindown, eviscerate combo? What about Shield Bash, eviscerate? What if the warrior tries to CC you first?!”

Pindown also has a fairly noticeable animation to it which makes it pretty easy to dodge, although I’ll admit it ain’t an easy skill to see when warriors go n make them selves all bright and shiny with very light white armor. Shield Bash is another skill which is very easy to dodge since there is a slight pause before the shield makes contact with you. Warriors are easy to read… Very few of them will be a challenge to an experienced player.

If you’re having major problems with eviscerate, at least in SPvP, its probably a L2P issue. But that is good yes? This means you can fix your issue and overcome it, go to a duel server and find a warrior to start practicing your dodges with.

The problem is that most people complaining about warriors on the forums are not very experienced.

I’ve also found that when meeting an experienced player who knows the animations there’s little trouble he’ll encounter fighting a warrior.

Unfortunately very few people put in the time and effort to learn those animations and be effective.
It’s much easier to go on the forums and complain!

Olba.5376:

Wolfield.9812:

Eviscerate 1 shots me. I do not fight axe warriors because of this. My backstab hits them for 4-7k + sigil damage. They hit me for 15k + sigil damage.

Shouldn’t run glass cannon against a glass cannon and complain when you lose.

I run 50:50 Berserker:Knight and I rarely see Eviscerate going over 10k under my own power.

Glass cannon versus a glass canon that is tankier than my tanky hyprid engineer build… and seriously? Omg “rarely see eviscerate going over 10k”??? Every other class beside thieves needs to go completly zerker to get even close to “rarley over 10k” damage. I am happy if skills go over 3k on my engi.

This must be a bad dream.

Literally half of my playtime (closing in on 4.5k hours) went into 1v1s inside Obsidian Sanctum and sPvP. And i didnt say i never beat axe/x GS warriors. But, and you cannot be seriously ignoring it, the effort it takes to kill such a warrior as a thief is about ten times the effort said warrior has to put into beating the thief, and that should not be the case. It should be equal or maybe like 1.2 times, but the gap currently is as big as the gap between poor and rich in India.
Why do i skill not get a serious answer on what justifies a warrior being tanky, mobile and powerful at once? Of course i would like to understand it, but since nobody has given a good reason yet i have to keep my point of view.
And why do people think i´d have a problem with the animations? i DO see Eviscerate coming. I DO see shield bash. Pin Down. Final Thrust. Whatever. The only class i have problems with animation-wise is Necromancer. The problem with warriors is the frequency those skills come and what huge amount of damage a warrior dishes out even when just auto attacking while the same warrior gets hit for much less from a target with much less Hp and armor. That simply is unbalanced no matter how you turn it. If i lose to a shatter mesmer, then its because he outplayed me. If i lose to another thief of my kind, then thats because he outplayed me. If i lose to a ranger, then its because he outplayed me. But warriors? No need to put in much effort, eventually Eviscerate will land and thats it.

And before someone goes with the “But the game isnt 1v1 balanced” argument – i KNOW it, kitten . Thats till doesnt prevent 1v1s, and even in group fights you happen to have a small duel from time to time.

TheBandicoot.5294:

This must be a bad dream.

Why do i skill not get a serious answer on what justifies a warrior being tanky, mobile and powerful at once? Of course i would like to understand it, but since nobody has given a good reason yet i have to keep my point of view.
.

All “Meta/OP/cheese” builds in the game are “tanky mobile and powerful at once”

S/D Thief 2/0/0/6/6 is “tanky mobile powerful” but in a different way. Evades compared to passive armor/health/regen. Thief is clearly more mobile maybe warr is more “powerful” but they both do enough dmg to kill.

As far as effort is concerned that will never be fixed. Passive dmg mitigation is simply less effort than active dmg mitigation which is evades ports blinds from thief.

I really do not care though at the end of the day. I play my thief more and destroy every single warr I meet in WvW. Every.Single.Time.

Is that so? how, then? After 3k hours of playing thief… enlighten me Narkodx. What build and gear allow you to destroy every single warr you meet in WvW? Then there must be something i do horribly wrong. Of course thats highly possible since, you know, i´m not a professional. But nobody was able to tell me HOW and simply told me thief vs warr is skewed alot towards warrior. Which, according to my impressions, is true regarding Eviscerate and such. or they replied with “kite” which, as i already stated, is nearly impossible.

TheBandicoot.5294:

Is that so? how, then? After 3k hours of playing thief… enlighten me Narkodx. What build and gear allow you to destroy every single warr you meet in WvW? Then there must be something i do horribly wrong. Of course thats highly possible since, you know, i´m not a professional. But nobody was able to tell me HOW and simply told me thief vs warr is skewed alot towards warrior. Which, according to my impressions, is true regarding Eviscerate and such. or they replied with “kite” which, as i already stated, is nearly impossible.

Here is the thing buddy I saw you post in the Thief forum before. You are one of those players who refuse to play “op/cheese” builds and then get rekt by warriors using “op/cheese” builds. You use S/D with no ShadowArts right? That is why you lose all the time.

EDIT – I do not need to give you my “superduperleetzor” build. Put 6 points into shadow arts and equip D/P then press the #5 button. If he uses zerker stance to counter that you simply stealth for ten seconds. DONE. He literally can not do a kitten thing while being constantly blinded and even if you get hit with something you have two stun breakers and shadow refuge to reset the fight.
Also P/D perplexity – ez mode literally the anti-melee

TheBandicoot.5294:

And two posts later, one watering me down to a QQer and another one trying to detract the focus from warriors to every class, still no constructive ideas about how to bring warriors and Eviscerate down in line balancing-wise.

Grimreaper and Silentnight Warrior – you seem to never have played as non-warriors vs warriors. Because if then you´d know that you cannot keep warrior at range and you´d know going melee would kill you much faster than the warrior. Let me express it once again: A warrior does too much damage while being too tanky and too mobile. Did you get it now or do you still think i´m sitting in my small world of “Dear ArenaNet, nerf stone, paper is fine. Sincerely, Scissors”? Oh, actually bad question – because warriors do not need or have INT and the answer to that would always be “Yes” in online gaming forums.
And the telegraphs are no way a disadvantage. The telegraph on Pin Down gets abused, and all dangerous burst skills only have a cast time of .5 seconds, thus they´re not overly highlighted.

And the wait goes on for constructive ideas like some already been posted.

L2P and mostly learn when to dodge.

xbutcherx.3861:

TheBandicoot.5294:

And two posts later, one watering me down to a QQer and another one trying to detract the focus from warriors to every class, still no constructive ideas about how to bring warriors and Eviscerate down in line balancing-wise.

Grimreaper and Silentnight Warrior – you seem to never have played as non-warriors vs warriors. Because if then you´d know that you cannot keep warrior at range and you´d know going melee would kill you much faster than the warrior. Let me express it once again: A warrior does too much damage while being too tanky and too mobile. Did you get it now or do you still think i´m sitting in my small world of “Dear ArenaNet, nerf stone, paper is fine. Sincerely, Scissors”? Oh, actually bad question – because warriors do not need or have INT and the answer to that would always be “Yes” in online gaming forums.
And the telegraphs are no way a disadvantage. The telegraph on Pin Down gets abused, and all dangerous burst skills only have a cast time of .5 seconds, thus they´re not overly highlighted.

And the wait goes on for constructive ideas like some already been posted.

L2P and mostly learn when to dodge.

Or play a warrior, you can just ignore the dodges then.

xbutcherx.3861:

L2P and mostly learn when to dodge.

Most useless comment ever. Go and try harder. That was just as kitten as all the thieves telling “L2P” a year ago when thief was OP.

@Narkodx – its mostly the player behind the build, but some builds have a big impact on the battle. That said, i won´t go so far and call Axe/Shield and GS a cheesebuild. Its just the composition of stuff and the way Eviscerate, Healing Signet etc work which makes it throw balance out of the window —→ NO L2P issue. I´m fine if a better player beats me. Thats L2P, right? but if i more or less have to fight the build or have to play cheese myself, then something must be wrong.

TheBandicoot.5294:

xbutcherx.3861:

L2P and mostly learn when to dodge.

Most useless comment ever. Go and try harder. That was just as kitten as all the thieves telling “L2P” a year ago when thief was OP.

@Narkodx – its mostly the player behind the build, but some builds have a big impact on the battle. That said, i won´t go so far and call Axe/Shield and GS a cheesebuild. Its just the composition of stuff and the way Eviscerate, Healing Signet etc work which makes it throw balance out of the window —-> NO L2P issue. I´m fine if a better player beats me. Thats L2P, right? but if i more or less have to fight the build or have to play cheese myself, then something must be wrong.

Asking how to beat a warrior? Asking for a build? this is why you SHOULDN’T post here in the first place.

TheBandicoot.5294:

xbutcherx.3861:

L2P and mostly learn when to dodge.

Most useless comment ever. Go and try harder. That was just as kitten as all the thieves telling “L2P” a year ago when thief was OP.

@Narkodx – its mostly the player behind the build, but some builds have a big impact on the battle. That said, i won´t go so far and call Axe/Shield and GS a cheesebuild. Its just the composition of stuff and the way Eviscerate, Healing Signet etc work which makes it throw balance out of the window —-> NO L2P issue. I´m fine if a better player beats me. Thats L2P, right? but if i more or less have to fight the build or have to play cheese myself, then something must be wrong.

“i have to play cheese myself, then something must be wrong” is a subjective statement
The only person with the answer to that question is Arenanet – balance is their job and theirs only – your job and my job is to use the builds/traits/weapons available to be as good as possible.

The point is that there are currently options for you in the game in order to counter that type of warrior build. Whether or not you consider them cheesy is irrelevant.

Your problem along with many other players is that you want to continue to play your special snowflake build. I will play the “op/cheese” builds and continue to win my fights and continue to get whispers saying I am a no skill stealth spammer. They do not bother me one bit.

Goodluck man I am sure that after 3k hours you are a pretty good player but you will never beat warriors and stop QQing until you stop creating barriers for yourself based upon what others deem is cheesy and op.

Meh looks like warriors are next up on the balance bar block tomorrow. All I can say is that I hope there are some nerfs to hambow, and reasonable, manageable buffs in other areas to compensate (such as too underused traits or weapons). . But if there isn’t a single thing that can be construed as a nerf in their final changes for the patch, I am going to be disappointed.

TheBandicoot.5294:

@Narkodx – its mostly the player behind the build, but some builds have a big impact on the battle. That said, i won´t go so far and call Axe/Shield and GS a cheesebuild. Its just the composition of stuff and the way Eviscerate, Healing Signet etc work which makes it throw balance out of the window —-> NO L2P issue. I´m fine if a better player beats me. Thats L2P, right? but if i more or less have to fight the build or have to play cheese myself, then something must be wrong.

You don’t have to play “cheese”, whatever the hell that means, you just have to play a build that works against the enemy you are facing.

An actual full glass Axe+Sh/GS Warrior has very few ways to deal with condi damage. That build has an effective power of 6135. If they go with full condi defense they’re looking at 4972. So just to survive conditions, a Warrior sacrifices 20% of their damage.

And I don’t want to see a Thief complaining about lack of evades. You got more evades than any other profession in the game with S/D, Sigil of Energy and Feline Grace. That’s more than enough to evade all Eviscerates from today until the end of time.

What is the effective power on other meta builds on other classes besides hambow? I’d like to see how they compare lol.

Olba, its not the lack of evades. The problem is that a warrior still does more damage inbetween those evades to me than i do to him. I never complain about lack of evades when i have Feline Grace and Vigor most of the time. But going conditions… well, i´d rather uninstall the game before i touch condition builds. Those are cheap seeing how conditions rule small group and solo Meta.

And Narkodx – special snowflake, eh? Not meant as an offense, but players like you are the reason everyone and their grandma lost all fighting honor and instead fighting honorable with good sportsmanship people rather play cheap to ensure an easy kill. And that is highly disappointing.

Tomorrow we´ll see how much ArenaNet understands from “their job and theirs only”.

Why are you guys talking about 1v1 in wvw?
Duels in wvw are not supposed to be balanced. C’mon guys, it should be pretty obvious. Wvw is not about duels.

And, btw, an axe/lb war has absolutely no mobility. An Axe/gs war has no way to connect effectively with 100b, and no way to remove conditions while using the gs, so both of them aren’t really mobile, powerful and tanky builds.

TheBandicoot.5294:

And Narkodx – special snowflake, eh? Not meant as an offense, but players like you are the reason everyone and their grandma lost all fighting honor and instead fighting honorable with good sportsmanship people rather play cheap to ensure an easy kill. And that is highly disappointing.

What.

TheBandicoot.5294:

Olba, its not the lack of evades. The problem is that a warrior still does more damage inbetween those evades to me than i do to him. I never complain about lack of evades when i have Feline Grace and Vigor most of the time. But going conditions… well, i´d rather uninstall the game before i touch condition builds. Those are cheap seeing how conditions rule small group and solo Meta.

And Narkodx – special snowflake, eh? Not meant as an offense, but players like you are the reason everyone and their grandma lost all fighting honor and instead fighting honorable with good sportsmanship people rather play cheap to ensure an easy kill. And that is highly disappointing.

Tomorrow we´ll see how much ArenaNet understands from “their job and theirs only”.

Its not cheap its just how it is, their will always be builds that are better than others. Restricting yourself to “not cheese” builds only makes you lose because no one else is using your made up rules. The game itself is only a box of tools, how you use them is up to you. Look at real life sport for example, theirs no “cheese” because its about real money and every legal option that makes it easier to win will be used and abused.

About P/D thieves they are not that scarry if you know what you are doing. A fresh air ele can shut him down so hard that its basicaly a joke matchup. A condi engi can easily outspam him, outrange him, applies almost perma weakness which mean his endurance is halved and he has a really hard time to get a c&d off. A tanky condi ranger can basicaly ignore him. Its not like P/D is on top of the food chain without getting destroyed by any spec.

Arcades.4689:

And, btw, an axe/lb war has absolutely no mobility. An Axe/gs war has no way to connect effectively with 100b, and no way to remove conditions while using the gs, so both of them aren’t really mobile, powerful and tanky builds.

And that is exactly why I said no one uses Axe/GS. I try running Axe/LB in WvW once a while, but it just ends with people kiting the kitten out of me. LB doesn’t work too well against kiting since most of its power comes from Arcing Arrow, which requires a somewhat stationary target.

As for Axe/GS, I think that anyone who gets killed by that is still living in 2012, because by 2013 everyone had figured dodging Bull’s Charge makes 100 blades a joke.

There’s a reason why LB became an instant hit when we got Cleansing Ire.

What is the effective power on other meta builds on other classes besides hambow? I’d like to see how they compare lol.

You cannot compare effective power across professions. Different professions function differently, so the measure loses its meaning.

Olba, its not the lack of evades. The problem is that a warrior still does more damage inbetween those evades to me than i do to him. I never complain about lack of evades when i have Feline Grace and Vigor most of the time. But going conditions… well, i´d rather uninstall the game before i touch condition builds. Those are cheap seeing how conditions rule small group and solo Meta.

So basically you choose not to use the one build that would utterly destroy a glass cannon warrior… and then complain that the glass cannon warrior is too strong?

And in case you’re not seeing it: S/D Thief gets evades in exchange for damage. Just like a glass cannon warrior gets tons of damage for sacrificing all of their defenses. The only difference between a glass cannon Warrior and any other glass cannon is that Warrior has better base survivability. And Warrior doesn’t have anywhere close to the best damage in the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYFsomuREo4

look @ this video at 14:45

this is how I deal with an eviscerate warrior 1v1 with a shatter mesmer. But if you want a 10x easier fight then just go condi.

If an axe warrior has bulls rush on their utility bar that means they either don’t have endure pain or berserker stance. They sacrifice condition or damage immunity for an extra gap closer.

Conditions absolutely wreck an axe warrior. Cleansing Ire sucks with both Axe and GS.

Condi Rangers? With their high poison uptime and ton of evades Axe warrior stands no chance

Condi Thieves? They can just pew pew with pistol and a warrior can’t do anything about

Condi Engis? Have too high of an uptime on confusion with perplexity runes for warriors to do anything. Plus have good uptime on poison and can constantly bleed you.

Condi Necro? Lord have mercy if you get SoS’ed at the beginning or if you get your boons corrupted. Or if you get perma chilled.

Condi Mesmer? Lul? teleport, stealth, chaos armor and auto attack while the warrior kills himself trying to catch you?

Even condi eles if they have a sigil of doom.

And condi builds aren’t even the only builds that can beat it.

PU Power Phantasm Mesmer
Shatter Mesmer
Rifle/Toolkit Engi
P/D and S/D Thieves
Meditation Guardian
GS/Scepter+Focus Guardian

All can beat axe warriors consistently if you are decent with any of these builds. I feel like Power Rangers and D/D Elementalists (non-celestial) are pretty good matchups that can go either way.

This is not to mention there are plenty of other warrior builds that can beat axe warriors. I.e full condi warriors and hammer warriors.

And axe warrior’s effectiveness gets worse past a 3v3 because of conditions, lack of group support/utility and lack of CC

killahmayne.9518:

Conditions absolutely wreck an axe warrior. Cleansing Ire sucks with both Axe and GS.

Condi Rangers? With their high poison uptime and ton of evades Axe warrior stands no chance

Condi Thieves? They can just pew pew with pistol and a warrior can’t do anything about

Condi Engis? Have too high of an uptime on confusion with perplexity runes for warriors to do anything. Plus have good uptime on poison and can constantly bleed you.

Condi Necro? Lord have mercy if you get SoS’ed at the beginning or if you get your boons corrupted. Or if you get perma chilled.

Condi Mesmer? Lul? teleport, stealth, chaos armor and auto attack while the warrior kills himself trying to catch you?

Even condi eles if they have a sigil of doom.

Sad when every class is listed for viable condi counters but Guardians.

use Line of Sight, problem solved… its not like warriors are thieves and cannot be kited.

Shanks.2907:

killahmayne.9518:

Conditions absolutely wreck an axe warrior. Cleansing Ire sucks with both Axe and GS.

Condi Rangers? With their high poison uptime and ton of evades Axe warrior stands no chance

Condi Thieves? They can just pew pew with pistol and a warrior can’t do anything about

Condi Engis? Have too high of an uptime on confusion with perplexity runes for warriors to do anything. Plus have good uptime on poison and can constantly bleed you.

Condi Necro? Lord have mercy if you get SoS’ed at the beginning or if you get your boons corrupted. Or if you get perma chilled.

Condi Mesmer? Lul? teleport, stealth, chaos armor and auto attack while the warrior kills himself trying to catch you?

Even condi eles if they have a sigil of doom.

Sad when every class is listed for viable condi counters but Guardians.

Us guardians totally have the best condi application in the game amirite?

As I’ve said before, I do believe Evis damage needs to be toned down a bit- recently on my Warrior I have been going A/S hammer to face elementalists- and it is simply not possible for them to dodge all the CC spam and massive damage I put out. Oh, right, I also get 3k armor, just ’cause. But I believe the problem is the intelligence sigil (see below).

I have little to no problem facing Axe builds on my guardian- I can trade autoattacks with them if I throw in a little blind in there, and Eviscerate is easily blocked, blinded, or dodged. Glass guardian versus glass warrior, if the guardian knows what he’s doing, is a bad, bad matchup for the warrior.

Worst warrior build for me to face is probably one of those super tanky cav/knight hammer warriors. Freaking nightmare, even as glass I don’t do all that much, they get cray cray regen from Healing Sig+ Adrenal Health, and the Intel sigil to make all their CC spam land. Eviscerate is not a problem so much as how well the Intel sigil synergizes with warrior playstyle of a few massive hits. That one sigil allows you to be incredibly tanky while guaranteeing you will deal solid damage every time.

“Warriors have weakness in the form of largely telegraphed attacks.”

Killshot.
Eviscerate.
Shield Bash.
Pin down.
final thrust.
EarthShaker.

Most, if not all of the stupid-high-damage moves can be avoided by simply -watching the body of the warrior you’re fighting and saving your dodges for those moves, while using Stealth/Stonearmor/whatever mitigation you have to endure any auto attacks they may land on you in the meanwhile. Dodges should be used to avoid both the stupid-high-damage moves and the set-up moves that would enable the stupid-high-damage moves.

It isn’t hard. This MMO requires you to recognize when a big hit is coming, and dodge it when it -does- come.

Crucible of eternity frankly -trains- you for this.

Not everything is in the numbers.

I guess Anet agreed with those of us saying that damage isn’t the problem with warrior’s burst uptime, but it being adrenaline, and how easily it is gained/retained. I don’t know if I agree it should be a complete drain on adrenaline upon a miss, but at least they didn’t just nerf the damage, and ignore the actual problem.

Seems like they dont read our feedback

I think we’ll have to see how this change turns out. Of course, Evis still does stupid damage, but at least warriors are now kinda punished for not landing it.

I’m pretty disappointed that they don’t do anything to Cleansing Ire, though.

Iavra.8510:

I think we’ll have to see how this change turns out. Of course, Evis still does stupid damage, but at least warriors are now kinda punished for not landing it.

I’m pretty disappointed that they don’t do anything to Cleansing Ire, though.

they already nerf CI with the missing burst eat your adrenaline. The more a warrior have to make decision timing of using a burst, the less spamming for CI. This actually nerf every CI warrior and more clear to tell a players’ skill level.

I only read what Dulfy wrote on her side, so someone needs to clarify for me: Since bursts now always use up adrenaline, does CI actually cleanse conditions every time you use them even if you miss?

If so, they should probably change CI to cleanse 1 condition every time you use a burst, no matter how many adrenaline you spend.

Nope, Cleansing Ire does require you to hit your target. if they changed how it works with longbow F1 remains to be seen though.

Iavra.8510:

If so, they should probably change CI to cleanse 1 condition every time you use a burst, no matter how many adrenaline you spend.

ummm, do you play a warrior at all? warriors need a good condition cleanse or else they are terrible at pvp. The only problem is that anet fixed the class through traits which requires all warriors to use them

Azure The Heartless.3261:

“Warriors have weakness in the form of largely telegraphed attacks.”

Killshot.
Eviscerate.
Shield Bash.
Pin down.
final thrust.
EarthShaker.

Most, if not all of the stupid-high-damage moves can be avoided by simply -watching the body of the warrior you’re fighting and saving your dodges for those moves, while using Stealth/Stonearmor/whatever mitigation you have to endure any auto attacks they may land on you in the meanwhile. Dodges should be used to avoid both the stupid-high-damage moves and the set-up moves that would enable the stupid-high-damage moves.

It isn’t hard. This MMO requires you to recognize when a big hit is coming, and dodge it when it -does- come.

Crucible of eternity frankly -trains- you for this.

Not everything is in the numbers.

one word: asura

TheBandicoot.5294:

Nope, Cleansing Ire does require you to hit your target. if they changed how it works with longbow F1 remains to be seen though.

I thought the “has to hit” part was because you didn’t spend adrenaline before if you missed. So with the upcoming changes i believed CI to trigger everytime.

No, i mean they said it. They mentioned Cleansing ire not triggering when adrenaline is spend but no target is hit.

Personaly i feel the damage is a lot a little over the top. Some shavings like 30% or so would be good, specially considering the new trait pretty much guarantees it hits like a truck with perma crit. Not even eles have access to guaranteed crit, it has longer CDs and the coefficient arent as sily.

I would say backstab also needs some shaving too.