Guild Wars 2

Jim Hunter.6821:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Windsagio.1340:

Broken record here, LB burst dissuades all kinds of lazy play, and in fact forces reactive play.

Maybe that’s why people are so upset about it ><

I have nothing against active play, the laziness has just shifted to the ranger.

That’s my whole hang-up.

As long as players would rather cry on the forums than adapt to fight rangers I guess that is technically true. Of course you could call anything a lazy play style if the opponent doesn’t fight back.

there’s a lot of L2P issue with the recent Ranger buff, yes. That being said:

• I still eat rangers w/ retal if they happen to get RF in.
• I think the effort required for their combat effectiveness has dropped off the face of the planet.

I’m not arguing because I’m having trouble with them. The only thing the buff did to stop me from melting them was the 6 second Endure Pain buff they got.

I’m arguing because now the majority of them are just sitting around doing absolutely nothing but pressing 1, 2 off cd. A buff should not shoehorn rangers into a specific build, much less a specific skill on a weapon of that build.

You think anyone that was actively playing their rangers before the patch is doing this? We’ve had a bunch of new build possibilities pop up since the patch.

The people spamming buttons are the people that never touched their rangers. If they actually stick with their rangers how long do you think they will stick to that crappy 1 trick build?

It’s not our best 1v1 build, it’s not our best group build, even cry hards like yourself say you have no problem beating it 1v1, all this build is really doing is getting more people to play ranger and once they start to enjoy it they will likely start tweaking their build or looking up new builds and playing those. So what exactly is the problem here?

If you give someone a mechanic, utility, or item that is effective in all situations or with minimal risk, they are almost always going to use it.

I wouldn’t say I am crying hard about anything, but I doubt the majority of people playing rangers with said strategy will suddenly become inspired by honor/experience/“Gee I want to do something with the same payoff but more work” and decide that they want to do something more active. That’s wishful thinking at best.

I am well aware that it is not your best 1v1 or group build. I have no qualms with rangers being decent in WVW or PVP at all. My issue is with lazy play, as I have said numerous times.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

If you give someone a mechanic, utility, or item that is effective in all situations or with minimal risk, they are almost always going to use it.

That right there is why they will stop using it. There is almost no situation it is effective in, not without sacrificing damage for better traits and utilities that will help the ranger survive, and once they start doing that it isn’t a lazy “hit 1 button to win” skill.

You and just about everyone else have said you have no problem killing them, so how is it minimal risk when they are dying so easily? This is a gimicky entry level build that will either get people interested enough to look at what else the class has to offer, or they will switch back to some other class because they are tired of dying 6 seconds after their opponent notices them.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

If you give someone a mechanic, utility, or item that is effective in all situations or with minimal risk, they are almost always going to use it.

That right there is why they will stop using it. There is almost no situation it is effective in, not without sacrificing damage for better traits and utilities that will help the ranger survive, and once they start doing that it isn’t a lazy “hit 1 button to win” skill.

You and just about everyone else have said you have no problem killing them, so how is it minimal risk when they are dying so easily? This is a gimicky entry level build that will either get people interested enough to look at what else the class has to offer, or they will switch back to some other class because they are tired of dying 6 seconds after their opponent notices them.

Here’s hoping you’re right. The last thing I want is Ranger watered down into a two button build. I can’t shake the feeling that the proportion of people it actually works against will be enough to justify keeping a playstyle that is so easily applied.

It isn’t about “can I beat it” for me. I’m focused on how efforts made to diversify builds on a class is shoehorning it instead because of general effectiveness. I’m not everyone, and I’m sure not everyone carries a reflect/retal/shield.

mexay.3902:

Fixing Rapid Fire in 5 Easy Steps

1) Take a step back, and do not assume it needs fixing until you know what is going on.

2) Play a ranger yourself and see the limitations of the builds.

3) Access the profession you are on, and see what it can do that counters RF, or any other skill or build from any other profession you have difficulty with.

4) Change your own build or play style instead of irrationally demanding on the forums that skills get nerfed to suit how you play.

5) You should be adjusting to the game, not demanding the game adjust to you.

There. Rapid Fire fixed.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

If you give someone a mechanic, utility, or item that is effective in all situations or with minimal risk, they are almost always going to use it.

That right there is why they will stop using it. There is almost no situation it is effective in, not without sacrificing damage for better traits and utilities that will help the ranger survive, and once they start doing that it isn’t a lazy “hit 1 button to win” skill.

You and just about everyone else have said you have no problem killing them, so how is it minimal risk when they are dying so easily? This is a gimicky entry level build that will either get people interested enough to look at what else the class has to offer, or they will switch back to some other class because they are tired of dying 6 seconds after their opponent notices them.

Here’s hoping you’re right. The last thing I want is Ranger watered down into a two button build. I can’t shake the feeling that the proportion of people it actually works against will be enough to justify keeping a playstyle that is so easily applied.

It isn’t about “can I beat it” for me. I’m focused on how efforts made to diversify builds on a class is shoehorning it instead because of general effectiveness. I’m not everyone, and I’m sure not everyone carries a reflect/retal/shield.

Its doubtful that the glass ranger will be in the real ‘meta’ (pretty certain not to be imo), but that’s also the definition of ‘meta’. If it becomes something a team has to be ready to be prepared for (like say a PU mesmer), that’s the optimal position. Not everyone has a good answer to being attacked by a longbow ranger in the perfect (for the ranger) setup. When is that ever not true? Those perfect setups are a lot harder to get than you might think.

If you’re in hotjoin, learn to fight htem or spec to deal with it, they’re already becoming more rare. If you’re in a team, and your team can’t deal with htis, that’s on you.

~~~

It’s worth repeating actually, in my experience the playstyle is already becoming more rare. There are fewer LB rangers than there were last week (well except for one game… but that one had a lot of thieves too, think it was the time of night). The ones playing are getting better, and they have to. In most cases a true pew pew longbow ranger is dead meat and a detriment to their team now (as always depending on the vagrancies of the match).

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I’m arguing because now the majority of them are just sitting around doing absolutely nothing but pressing 1, 2 off cd. A buff should not shoehorn rangers into a specific build, much less a specific skill on a weapon of that build.

The majority of them are new rangers who are only playing it because people are making such a big fuss over it. The more people complain about it being overpowered the more people will BELIEVE it is overpowered, and thus the more people will roll it thinking they will now be overpowered.

Ranger build diversity is actually in an amazing place right now. The longbow sniper build did not in any way eclipse existing ranger builds, and just about every ranger build received a significant buff this patch, not just longbow rangers.

The greatsword got a good buff. An evade at the end of Swoop, little more damage on auto attacks. It’s not huge, but it did make the greatsword more smooth and effective, making melee rangers stronger.

The signet buffs were a massive buff that ALL rangers can make heavy use of. Signet of the Wild is devastating on melee rangers just as much as longbow rangers, and is often a cornerstone skill on beastmaster rangers as it buffs you and the pet’s damage by so much.

Signet of the Hunt can be used for passive speed and a one hit amp, which actually makes it amazing for a greatsword ranger who needs to hit harder with their next Maul. Not very good for longbow though since Rapid Fire is many small hits rather than one big hit.

Signet of Stone is a huge buff to every ranger build, but actually favors melee over longbow. It’s handy for longbow rangers to survive if enemies get in close, but since it doesn’t stop control effects and conditions it’s still not quite enough to let the longbow ranger reclaim distance. Melee rangers, however, can now use it on point to punish enemies just like warriors can. It’s perfect for de-capping, which longbow rangers are terrible at because of their super low defensive stats.

Sick ’Em’s six seconds of reveal was a great anti-thief buff for beastmaster rangers who rely on pet damage anyway. Much, much better skill for a pet heavy build than on a longbow build.

The might on Ricochet was phenomenal for beastmaster rangers. Pets can hit like trucks now, and it increases the sustained damage of the axe itself. Beastmaster might actually be viable now just because of this one change. Combine it with Signet of the Wild and Sick ’Em and it can be frighteningly strong.

Finally the Entangle buff is huge for everyone. Longbows love it for keeping the enemy away and setting up Rapid Fire. Beastmasters love it for setting up their pet burst. My trapper ranger has become much more effective now thanks to this change. Runes of the Krait turn it into a killer condi bomb. That plus traps is almost a guaranteed kill.

Speaking of my trapper, those new Runes of the Trapper look pretty attractive. I can’t wait to try them out.

So yes. Rangers are in a good place now. Build diversity has skyrocketed since the last patch, making roles like beastmaster, ranged damage dealer, melee skirmisher, and condition bomber all much stronger than they were before. Is any of that effective at high end play? I don’t know. We have to wait and see. But for now, I am greatly enjoying the number of choices I have.

How about 2 steps?

Remove vulnerability stack
Rooted in place for the cast like Guardian sword #3 or 100 blow

Now there is a real opportunity cost to using the skill.

Relentliss.2170:

How about 2 steps?

Remove vulnerability stack
Rooted in place for the cast like Guardian sword #3 or 100 blow

Now there is a real opportunity cost to using the skill.

Although I do not personally feel RF is much of a problem, at least this suggestion gives it a comparative draw back that is similar to other skills of a relative nature.

coglin.1867:

Relentliss.2170:

How about 2 steps?

Remove vulnerability stack
Rooted in place for the cast like Guardian sword #3 or 100 blow

Now there is a real opportunity cost to using the skill.

Although I do not personally feel RF is much of a problem, at least this suggestion gives it a comparative draw back that is similar to other skills of a relative nature.

It’s worth remembering that this is a skill that spent a lot of time on the edge of being not worth using vs the same weapons autoattack.

coglin.1867:

Relentliss.2170:

How about 2 steps?

Remove vulnerability stack
Rooted in place for the cast like Guardian sword #3 or 100 blow

Now there is a real opportunity cost to using the skill.

Although I do not personally feel RF is much of a problem, at least this suggestion gives it a comparative draw back that is similar to other skills of a relative nature.

Like volley? Oh wait that doesn’t root you… But it doesn’t give vulnerability, that’s on another skill!… But if they put vulnerability on another skill rapid fire would be even more powerful… Oh I know! People could just use 1 of the many hard counters to ranged attacks!

And seriously aren’t some of the biggest complaints that rangers are getting on perches where you have a hard time reaching them, or hitting you when you are fighting someone else. How would making the skill root change this?

Seriously I hate saying it but after repeatedly listing the many ways to counter a longbow ranger the only thing left to say is learn to play.

coglin.1867:

Relentliss.2170:

How about 2 steps?

Remove vulnerability stack
Rooted in place for the cast like Guardian sword #3 or 100 blow

Now there is a real opportunity cost to using the skill.

Although I do not personally feel RF is much of a problem, at least this suggestion gives it a comparative draw back that is similar to other skills of a relative nature.

Volley doesn’t root you. There’s already a skill on the weapon that roots you.

Why not just nerf the damage by 10% and call it a day? It’s now volley.

Atherakhia.4086:

coglin.1867:

Relentliss.2170:

How about 2 steps?

Remove vulnerability stack
Rooted in place for the cast like Guardian sword #3 or 100 blow

Now there is a real opportunity cost to using the skill.

Although I do not personally feel RF is much of a problem, at least this suggestion gives it a comparative draw back that is similar to other skills of a relative nature.

Volley doesn’t root you. There’s already a skill on the weapon that roots you.

Why not just nerf the damage by 10% and call it a day? It’s now volley.

And then the skill would be useless again.

RF isn’t a problem. Strong? Yes. OP? No way.
You know what the real problems are?

sPvP stat capping/distributions and skill nerfs exclusive to the format.
Certain class matchups having inherent weaknesses/lack of counters to multihit ranged burst.

Thing is, RF was just never touched since it was so terrible before the patch, unlike most other burst skills since the format by design encourages slow-paced combat on quick, spammy cooldowns.

So RF’s base damage output paired with terrible stat scaling on most builds and inherently lower damage numbers on most bomb skills gives the skill the appearance of being OP when in reality it’s really not that strong in WvW/PvE. Actually, in 2.5s, most other classes can strictly out-DPS/burst a ranger/RF even when they are using SotW.

I personally know my thief with a near identical stat build to my ranger can deal something like 70% more damage over 2.5 seconds in WvW and more than 150% more damage on a burst combo, and certain elementalist builds as mentioned in some other theorycrafting posts can net something like 300% more damage than RF outside of sPvP.

In WvW, the skill does relatively fair damage, especially for how glassy most LB power rangers are now (the ones actually hitting hard with RF), and these rangers are usually quick to drop. If anything, SoS is what makes the build too strong since it has no cast time/can be used while CC’ed and acts as a get-out-of-jail-free card for such an extended duration while forcing counterplay options on cooldown.

And really, there just isn’t enough reflect in the game. I’d rather see signets reworked as well such that SotW granted the active effect of Signet of Might rather than 25% damage, and have more reflect options be opened up to more/other classes/skills. That, or toning down RF’s damage down by around 40%, but further halving the casting time, cutting the attack to a five-hit chain which apply 2 vuln each for 2 less seconds (8s), and dropping the cooldown by 2 seconds, and making HS yield stealth 100% of the time. Now the ranger has a decent burst skill on a low cooldown which applies vuln, a good disengage, access to a hard counter to builds which have more access to hard countering it (one for one the utilities, or in some cases, weapon skills versus a ranger utility), therefore making aggressive play require better planning for the ranger and defensive play easier for the classes which need it while allowing for a single dodge roll to negate all of the damage, but only for so long.