Guild Wars 2

Minto.9201:

xFx.3247:

While roaming the forums around, and the professions sub-forums precisely. I noticed how many are clearly misinformed about guardians. Someone said that guardians are in a good spot, when we actually are not.
Our core problems are not addressed, and that been for a long time. We get nerfed (I don’t mind when getting nerfed is bringing us in line with everyone) when others are clearly in “need” to brought to “earthly matters”.

So, why is there none talking about us being broken (in profession balance)? If we are in a good spot, why isn’t the others in line with us? Why are people confusing “Warriors” survivability with “Guardians”?

Are we accepting that we are okay cause someone said we are? Where are all the guardians? I know many re-rolled, or play others, but still.

You said “Someone said that guardians are in a good spot, when we actually are not.”

Can you explain to me what you mean by “we are actually are not (in a good spot)?”

Are you talking about build diversity which all classes need help with or that guardian are useless in any given game mode? If it is the first then is should be a general qq post about how ALL classes should have more build diversity since that seems to be a universal problem. If it is the later, I really don’t know about to say…

Yes this is correct, the problem is build diversity. If we ignore this problem then guardians really are in a good spot. They perform their role well (bunkering, supporting allies).

Guardians can play all modes (sPvP, WvW, PvE), not necessary the best but they can fill some roles (ignoring how effective it is). Guardians are by no mean useless.
What I mean by us not being in a good spot is that, we are getting at as an excuse for not making any significant change on how the professions plays (been like that since I played it). We have our issues, many stated them; None is getting addressed thou.

Guardians will be the profession that gets “shut in”, while others gets stronger. Others gets new toys to try and play around with, while guardians being the poor profession (given the broken new toys). As I said earlier, a good spot includes new builds, excitements, skills and utilities that we can use as well as being balanced.

I am fine with having weaknesses in our profession, but stop using a good spot for “locking us up” in one or two builds.

xFx.3247:

Guardians can play all modes (sPvP, WvW, PvE), not necessary the best but they can fill some roles (ignoring how effective it is). Guardians are by no mean useless.
What I mean by us not being in a good spot is that, we are getting at as an excuse for not making any significant change on how the professions plays (been like that since I played it). We have our issues, many stated them; None is getting addressed thou.

Guardians will be the profession that gets “shut in”, while others gets stronger. Others gets new toys to try and play around with, while guardians being the poor profession (given the broken new toys). As I said earlier, a good spot includes new builds, excitements, skills and utilities that we can use as well as being balanced.

I am fine with having weaknesses in our profession, but stop using a good spot for “locking us up” in one or two builds.

Are you talking about the new traits?
If so then you are right only 2 of them could be somewhat useful if they were buffed and the 300 vitality boost is a strange gm trait. It feels boring and traits shouldnt simple boost stats but give something nice.
But most professions do get thier useless gm traits, well maybe apart from the necro. All of his gm traits seem to have some uses (if you buff some numbers).

The real problem of Guardian is not viability or balance, but variety. The problem is that almost 1/2 of our utilities and a lot of the traits are useless, maybe be the class that have most useless things, allowing very low flexibility and possibility. And yes, there is a lot of things that need to be changed in the class and the Guardian is the class that received the lowest attention.

Again, the problem is not the viability, but the lack of attention and changes.

The class is stagnant.

Black Box.9312:

Syeria.4812:

Just so I’m following here, the arguments are “guardian is not in a good place” because:

1) Guardian is boring
2) Guardian isn’t as mindless as other classes
3) Guardian isn’t super mega OP
4) Guardian hasn’t changed a ton

So…does anyone have an actual argument for guardian not being in a good place? I’m not saying they are, it’s just that none of the “arguments” put forth in this thread actually disagree with that.

There have been plenty of valid posts about what is currently wrong with the guardian class. I don’t know whether you’re not understanding it or you’re just intentionally ignoring it, but these ARE significant issues, regardless of whether or not you think so.

Where is there a single balance issue that has been pointed out in this thread? Please just quote them. As I said earlier, it’s entirely possible there’s issues that put Guardian in not a good spot, but no one here has done anything other than whine without providing the smallest shred of evidence that Guardian is unbalanced.

@Syeria:
You just don’t want to admit that a good spot is being used as an excuse for not making any change for us.

As many said, we want some varieties (but due to some balance issues like Spirit Weapons <—-). And honestly, I am not sure why you keep ignoring that there is a balance issues with some of our utilities and other things (I mentioned Spirit Weapons so you can dig into that if you want).
@Muchacho:
Our new traits are one of the things that I am talking about. As well some of our old traits.

Mikau said it nicely also. Put some dumb condition that can protect our Burning for example.

Stagnation is a huge issue. I just believe the current weaknesses of a melee profession(outside of bunker) are too extreme. This compounding with a significant amount of traits that I think are near-useless.

Syeria.4812:

Black Box.9312:

Syeria.4812:

Just so I’m following here, the arguments are “guardian is not in a good place” because:

1) Guardian is boring
2) Guardian isn’t as mindless as other classes
3) Guardian isn’t super mega OP
4) Guardian hasn’t changed a ton

So…does anyone have an actual argument for guardian not being in a good place? I’m not saying they are, it’s just that none of the “arguments” put forth in this thread actually disagree with that.

There have been plenty of valid posts about what is currently wrong with the guardian class. I don’t know whether you’re not understanding it or you’re just intentionally ignoring it, but these ARE significant issues, regardless of whether or not you think so.

Where is there a single balance issue that has been pointed out in this thread? Please just quote them. As I said earlier, it’s entirely possible there’s issues that put Guardian in not a good spot, but no one here has done anything other than whine without providing the smallest shred of evidence that Guardian is unbalanced.

Ever played a spirit weapon build?

Give it a try, and you might have a different outlook.

Guys the only problem is the lack of build diversity.

If you take the good one, then guardians are “in a good spot”. But if you choose all the useless traits that we have, guardians are weaker than a ranger.

In WvW, guardians are the best front liners because they have personal/group sustain, DPS and hard CC. Moreover they have the best heal in the game (compared to War who haven’t any panic button except endure pain which takes a slot for a shout or an other stance).

IMO we should just asking for a rework off ALL the useless traits. I invite you to watch our videos in WvW and you will see that a guardian are “in a good spot” WITH THE ONLY VIABLE BUILD in WvW.

Meh a good spot is subjective, using the same build for ages isn’t. Every profession has one or two builds(at least) which are good, but that changed for some.
Also, just want to point out something about healing; Warriors has way more hp than Guardians. What is considered a panic attack for some, is “oh you hit me huh” for another.
So yes, we have some builds that actually work that we been using for a long time. We need something that make us want to change and use more of utilities. Give us new toys which actually works.

xFx.3247:

Meh a good spot is subjective, using the same build for ages isn’t. Every profession has one or two builds(at least) which are good, but that changed for some.
Also, just want to point out something about healing; Warriors has way more hp than Guardians. What is considered a panic attack for some, is “oh you hit me huh” for another.
So yes, we have some builds that actually work that we been using for a long time. We need something that make us want to change and use more of utilities. Give us new toys which actually works.

Bone guardian can take 44% less damage almost all the time so 20k HP ca be more like 30k HP with insane heals,there are lot of builds for guardians but x x 30 30 x is best tank build and one of hardest to kill …

Syeria.4812:

xFx.3247:

You see, you re-arranged the line, so warriors healing signet is overpowered.; And that’s the thing. You put the “good spot”, what you don’t get is there is no such thing; Because different professions are different.
You can say damage is balanced when two professions are roughly doing the same damage (in reality). You are confusing balance with “good spot”, does Wall of Reflection makes Guardians overpower compared to Warriors? That’s a relative thing on how much having it changes how the battle goes.

A good spot is something relative, and I assume you know what relative means right? A good spot is something that depends on the “philosophy” behind the design. A good spot in imbalanced game is what you said “excitement, variety, or openness of meta.” along with the balance that I am talking about (Damaged, endurance, Etc).

Or perhaps you mean that a good spot is someone who can fill multiple roles (not at the same time of course)?

No, you’re trying to mis-define things to mean what you like rather than what they are. Classes can fill different roles and still be balanced. Guardians don’t do as much damage as other classes, but they’re better at mitigating it for themselves and others. That’s balance. Guardians don’t have selfish mobility like some other classes do, but they provide more bonuses to their allies than those mobility classes do. That’s balance.

What you’re talking about doesn’t have anything to do with balance/imbalance. You’re bored of the current meta, and possibly don’t even actually like the class and want change. That’s not a balance issue, and “a good spot” has always been about their balance.

Let’s agree that your both taking this way to far, xFx you’ve proven your point, and well Syeria…… Your points have been put into the opinion bin, which filters into the paper shredder.

Dahkeus.8243:

Guardians are in a better spot than any other profession in the game in pretty much every aspect of the game:

PvE
Guards give DPS nearly on par with warriors while bringing reflects rivaled only by mesmers. They have 2 high end, meta builds (look up Obal’s guides for these). Most professions have 1 meta build and some have none (necros).

in groups guardians deal more dps than warriors.

NoTrigger.8396:

Dahkeus.8243:

Guardians are in a better spot than any other profession in the game in pretty much every aspect of the game:

PvE
Guards give DPS nearly on par with warriors while bringing reflects rivaled only by mesmers. They have 2 high end, meta builds (look up Obal’s guides for these). Most professions have 1 meta build and some have none (necros).

in groups guardians deal more dps than warriors.

In groups Warriors can passively outheal a guardians dps -__-

I am just saying that we been using the same builds for a long time, not trying to argue if we have one of the strongest builds or not; Just that we’ve using the same builds.

xFx.3247:

I am just saying that we been using the same builds for a long time, not trying to argue if we have one of the strongest builds or not; Just that we’ve using the same builds.

This. I don’t think people understand that, though. We need variety. I honestly feel the cast time on utility skills is a major factor in whether you take it or not. Shouts are amazing because of the boons they provide and they’re instant. Spirit weapons should be instant cast and last until killed/destroyed. Maybe even have it where they add a new skill bar of skill choices :|. Something needs to give

xFx.3247:

I am just saying that we been using the same builds for a long time, not trying to argue if we have one of the strongest builds or not; Just that we’ve using the same builds.

You know your class has no variety when you blow gold on dire gear to make a fake burn guardian just to humor yourself and do something “different” lol

Even bought trinkets, gold down the drain just to suck out the last remaining entertainment in the guardian profession

Haha, one can always hope and dream thou. Also when they decided that its time to add new traits, its a good time to give us something different, and fix some of our not used utilities (Spirit weapons with some tweaks here and there can be a fun build). That goes for all professions of course, but please understand that Guardians has been using the same builds….

Abe Kleine.3568:

Dahkeus.8243:

Guardians are in a better spot than any other profession in the game in pretty much every aspect of the game:

PvE
Guards give DPS nearly on par with warriors while bringing reflects rivaled only by mesmers. They have 2 high end, meta builds (look up Obal’s guides for these). Most professions have 1 meta build and some have none (necros).

WvW
Guardians probably are the most popular profession in organized WvW guilds since they are hands down some of the best front-liners available.

sPvP
Guards are still considered a must-have for most teams since they are such strong bunker/team support. They also work well as meditation DPS.

There will always be people who reroll after getting a case of seeing greener on the other side, but the bottom line is that almost no other class in the game is viable in as many areas as guardians are while having as many viable builds as guardians do.

There is one MAJOR flaw with your entire thing…. Playing Guardian isn’t fun.. it’s a CHORE. You MUST use these specific meta builds in order to survive, or you must sacrifice all your survivability (next to none, low hp) to do damage. Meaning you DIE before you can do any of that actual damage, especially when zerging

Lol, speak for yourself.
1) Every class has meta builds. If anything, Guardian has more meta builds and hence more diversity than most other classes in just about every aspect of the game.

2) All classes sacrifice survivability for DPS. However, Guards are one of the sturdiest berserkers in the game since you still have so much access to blocks, blinds, and protection, even in the many of the glassiest of builds.

3) Why would you zerg in a glass build? If you’re talking WvW, then the meta is a high defense, tanky build.

I’m really baffled at your post…either you’re new to the class or you’re really out of touch of the Guardian meta or you haven’t ever played another class. Play a thief for a day if you want to know what it’s like to be squishy, lol.

Been playing Guardian for a long time now and I think what it boils down to is that there’s really only 1 way to play a Guardian in most aspects of this game: Support

And obviously support is super helpful. My allies love it when I facetank and grab aggro, or give them boons, or passive heals, etc BUT for the Guardian it sucks that you’re forced into that role.

If I want to provide some nice DPS I sacrifice so much survivability that I’ll die. I don’t PvP, so I won’t comment on that, but in PvE and WvW the only time you can go full DPS on a Guardian and be successful is a very well organized WvW roaming group. For Dungeons/Fractals, gotta play bunker. For WvW larger groups/zergs it’s super effective to play bunker.

I like my Guardian because I don’t die easily. But even the skills are boring. No flash, nothing fancy. Just safe. I guess that’s how Anet wants it. Guardians are support bunkers and that’s it. Unfortunately it leaves us with like 10 traits total out of 60 that are useful and I’m left staring at the other 50 thinking “wouldn’t it be nice if I could use these and be effective”.

Bunker Guardian also = not much skill needed to be “effective” enough in GW2. Warriors are the same. They’re safe classes that the average person that pick up and play well enough right away. Anet probably likes this as well.

The problem with guardians is that there is no viable dps build.

True the zerker meditation guardian exists, but the dps from that is medicore (8k crits on burst which my warrior/thief/ele all outdo by a lot) becuase you have to trait 30 into a defensive trait line and yet they are utter glass. If you were to trait full dps you would be glass with no survivability gimmicks. That is the big problem.

If you look at the other two classes that have the lowest health pool (thief/ele) you will notice that both have ways to survive. Thief has stealth which makes it hard for someone to kill them, and eles have good mobility and cc. What do guards have? A few blocks (one on a 90 second cd and weapon based ones that are also 40 sec + cd), no mobility, protection access on VERY low uptime high cd, and a few blinds scattered about. That is not enough to effectively fight someone glassy in close range. If you trait at 30/30/0/0/10 you will die in every fight. There is no sustain, and no way to gimmick yourself to live through a fight.

So there is your problem. You HAVE to trait into valor and honor in order to have a dps build. No other class has to do that. We have one viable build, which is arguably good, but I wouldn’t call it balance if every guardian takes the same build because it is the only balanced build we have.

Dahkeus.8243:

Abe Kleine.3568:

Dahkeus.8243:

Guardians are in a better spot than any other profession in the game in pretty much every aspect of the game:

PvE
Guards give DPS nearly on par with warriors while bringing reflects rivaled only by mesmers. They have 2 high end, meta builds (look up Obal’s guides for these). Most professions have 1 meta build and some have none (necros).

WvW
Guardians probably are the most popular profession in organized WvW guilds since they are hands down some of the best front-liners available.

sPvP
Guards are still considered a must-have for most teams since they are such strong bunker/team support. They also work well as meditation DPS.

There will always be people who reroll after getting a case of seeing greener on the other side, but the bottom line is that almost no other class in the game is viable in as many areas as guardians are while having as many viable builds as guardians do.

There is one MAJOR flaw with your entire thing…. Playing Guardian isn’t fun.. it’s a CHORE. You MUST use these specific meta builds in order to survive, or you must sacrifice all your survivability (next to none, low hp) to do damage. Meaning you DIE before you can do any of that actual damage, especially when zerging

Lol, speak for yourself.
1) Every class has meta builds. If anything, Guardian has more meta builds and hence more diversity than most other classes in just about every aspect of the game.

2) All classes sacrifice survivability for DPS. However, Guards are one of the sturdiest berserkers in the game since you still have so much access to blocks, blinds, and protection, even in the many of the glassiest of builds.

3) Why would you zerg in a glass build? If you’re talking WvW, then the meta is a high defense, tanky build.

I’m really baffled at your post…either you’re new to the class or you’re really out of touch of the Guardian meta or you haven’t ever played another class. Play a thief for a day if you want to know what it’s like to be squishy, lol.

Your post makes it so obvious you don’t play guard. I play all classes, and my thief on a dps build can out survive my guard for days. You said we have one of the highest amount of meta builds?! Hahahaha that’s a good one. (And you quote the guy who has links to burn guardians as a viable build…. again shows you have never touched a guard in your life if you think a condi guard is viable).

Please go back to the warrior forums. You are still going to be the most desired and OP heavy no need to worry and trash this thread.

When you play any spec, even dps you literally have no gimmicky defenses(procced when critted/stunned or whatever). It’s one of the reasons why it could be considered fair and balanced.

Syeria.4812:

Amins.3710:

if you can’t see the blaring issues w/ a melee class w/o soft CC and mobility in WvW… well.. nothing more to say but keep livin in that glass house.

Thanks, but please don’t come back until you have something to contribute.

Stay in school. Reading comprehension is a must in the real world.

Abe Kleine.3568:

xFx.3247:

I am just saying that we been using the same builds for a long time, not trying to argue if we have one of the strongest builds or not; Just that we’ve using the same builds.

You know your class has no variety when you blow gold on dire gear to make a fake burn guardian just to humor yourself and do something “different” lol

Even bought trinkets, gold down the drain just to suck out the last remaining entertainment in the guardian profession

I have a full condi set w/ Perplexity runes so I can just JI / Sanctuary into a group and proc Confusion and burning, covering w/ Vulnerability.

Best condi build EVAH~!

Amins.3710:

Abe Kleine.3568:

xFx.3247:

I am just saying that we been using the same builds for a long time, not trying to argue if we have one of the strongest builds or not; Just that we’ve using the same builds.

You know your class has no variety when you blow gold on dire gear to make a fake burn guardian just to humor yourself and do something “different” lol

Even bought trinkets, gold down the drain just to suck out the last remaining entertainment in the guardian profession

I have a full condi set w/ Perplexity runes so I can just JI / Sanctuary into a group and proc Confusion and burning, covering w/ Vulnerability.

Best condi build EVAH~!

That actually sounds hilarious. Have any vids to share? (If you’re serious, at least. I honestly can’t tell.)

An elementalist would dream to be in the position that the guardian currently is.

Someone mentioned some good point before, Aegis gets removed on anything (even a critter hit as he described it).

Water fights should be removed from sPvP also, its broken.