Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone,

The guardian issues of inherent movement speed and soft crowd-control need to be addressed. Currently, there are two runes that offer passive 25% movement speed boosts, and I use one of them. It helps me w staying in fights, getting out of aoe, and moving to different points. That’s nice, but I feel there are ways guardians could have easier access to minor swiftness. The 5 point zeal minor could make it so symbols give swiftness instead of what it currently does. I’m just putting it out there that something needs to give. Soft crowd-control would be a BLESSING. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve had opponents just run around me in points because they realized I either couldn’t keep up w them or deal enough damage. I use all berserker everything in PvE/WvW/sPvP, so it’s not an issue of “am I set-up for damage?” It seems like ANet wants us to have access to chill, so why not make it so it’s not only hammer that applies it? I would LOVE to be able to inflict a 4 second chill every 30 seconds. I will continue to play Guardian, but these are just two specific areas I’d appreciate changes.

Thank you!

Has been asked so many times, even by myself. Prepare to be ignored

Keep the discussion alive my friend

Dps guard is OP, please don’t turn this into faceroll too. It’s boring.

If you’re struggling roll a warrior, they’re much weaker as a zerker, but easier to start with.

IMO, the reason similar threads sank is because these aren’t issues. They are just something that the class doesn’t hugely offer.

mrauls.6519:

The 5 point zeal minor could make it so symbols give swiftness instead of what it currently does.

Another reason for those AA hammer guardians to just AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA? No thanks.

Phaeton.9582:

Dps guard is OP, please don’t turn this into faceroll too. It’s boring.

If you’re struggling roll a warrior, they’re much weaker as a zerker, but easier to start with.

Dps Guard OP? You play as a class versus which they perform rather well then, because there’s no way you’d be saying that if you played a ranger, necro, engie or mesmer. Unless you’re not very good at PvP xD

Warriors struggle as zerker, if that were the punchline of a joke, it might actually be funny. Warrior is literally faceroll. When I’m too tired to focus up and play Ele, engie or dps guard, I play warrior because I don’t need to focus on that class, everything happens automatically.

Aedrion.6483:

Phaeton.9582:

Dps guard is OP, please don’t turn this into faceroll too. It’s boring.

If you’re struggling roll a warrior, they’re much weaker as a zerker, but easier to start with.

Dps Guard OP? You play as a class versus which they perform rather well then, because there’s no way you’d be saying that if you played a ranger, necro, engie or mesmer. Unless you’re not very good at PvP xD

Warriors struggle as zerker, if that were the punchline of a joke, it might actually be funny. Warrior is literally faceroll. When I’m too tired to focus up and play Ele, engie or dps guard, I play warrior because I don’t need to focus on that class, everything happens automatically.

Dps guard is OP bro, it beats everything 1v1 except spirit ranger and the very best engineers (if you don’t range them+land your burst). It wins them fast. It also can ‘clean’ fights when roaming, making it much more effective as a pure roamer to a semi bunker that builds for 1v1s.

It also hard counters thieves. Which is huge.

PS if you’ve lost to a Mesmer on your dps guard you’re doing something very, very wrong, sorry.

PPS I was one of (if not the) most active zerker warrior in spvp for the first year, I’m aware of its limitations/potential. It lacks the landable burst+mitigation to deal with skilled players, especially thieves.

xFireize.6318:

IMO, the reason similar threads sank is because these aren’t issues. They are just something that the class doesn’t hugely offer.

mrauls.6519:

The 5 point zeal minor could make it so symbols give swiftness instead of what it currently does.

Another reason for those AA hammer guardians to just AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA? No thanks.

It’s not offered at all! What are you talking about? Hammer auto chains take ridiculously long to get off, who is going to be basing constant swiftness off of that in a PvP situation? Swiftness doesn’t make big differences in PvE. Every second couns

Phaeton.9582:

Aedrion.6483:

Phaeton.9582:

Dps guard is OP, please don’t turn this into faceroll too. It’s boring.

If you’re struggling roll a warrior, they’re much weaker as a zerker, but easier to start with.

Dps Guard OP? You play as a class versus which they perform rather well then, because there’s no way you’d be saying that if you played a ranger, necro, engie or mesmer. Unless you’re not very good at PvP xD

Warriors struggle as zerker, if that were the punchline of a joke, it might actually be funny. Warrior is literally faceroll. When I’m too tired to focus up and play Ele, engie or dps guard, I play warrior because I don’t need to focus on that class, everything happens automatically.

Dps guard is OP bro, it beats everything 1v1 except spirit ranger and the very best engineers (if you don’t range them+land your burst). It wins them fast. It also can ‘clean’ fights when roaming, making it much more effective as a pure roamer to a semi bunker that builds for 1v1s.

It also hard counters thieves. Which is huge.

PS if you’ve lost to a Mesmer on your dps guard you’re doing something very, very wrong, sorry.

PPS I was one of (if not the) most active zerker warrior in spvp for the first year, I’m aware of its limitations/potential. It lacks the landable burst+mitigation to deal with skilled players, especially thieves.

Mesmers in a 1v1 situation have the right tools to go toe to toe w a guardian… especially PU

mrauls.6519:

Mesmers in a 1v1 situation have the right tools to go toe to toe w a guardian… especially PU

Then I must be much, much better mechanically than every Mesmer in the game.

Kinda hard to believe, even with a community our size.

Most of the replies in this thread but few leave me to suspect I’m the only person here who actually duels pro players on various classes. Dps guardian is only OP if the other player is slow and fails to dodge.

If you think guardian should pick easy fights versus mesmers, engineers and necro’s, I dare you to fight the people I fight when trying that out. I doubt 85% of players commenting here could even scratch people from top 3 EU guilds.

Exactly, mesmers, engineers, and necromancers have great tools to fight against guardians. So do other professions. It’s not as easy as some of the ‘pro guardians’ are trying to make it sound. I’ve played against many skilled players and guardian definitely needs improvements to the two specific areas I brought up in the OP

mrauls.6519:

xFireize.6318:

IMO, the reason similar threads sank is because these aren’t issues. They are just something that the class doesn’t hugely offer.

mrauls.6519:

The 5 point zeal minor could make it so symbols give swiftness instead of what it currently does.

Another reason for those AA hammer guardians to just AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA? No thanks.

It’s not offered at all! What are you talking about? Hammer auto chains take ridiculously long to get off, who is going to be basing constant swiftness off of that in a PvP situation? Swiftness doesn’t make big differences in PvE. Every second couns

I don’t do it, but apparently some guardians do.

Ok, so it’s not gonna affect WvW? Then you can do whatever you want in PvE and sPvP. I don’t do them anymore after I realize that guardian shines much much brighter in WvW. So if it affects WvW, please keep that in mind.

May I ask what build you are using, just so I could understand that no swiftness nor CC are offered at all? What else have you tried to solve this problem other than +25% movement speed from runes?

My OP isn’t edited so you can ctrl+F and see I never said I never had any swiftness. Where did you pull that from? I currently only get swiftness from SYS! (the shout), and that lasts for 12 seconds… On a 48 second cool down, that isn’t awesome. There isn’t much else I can do. I’ve tried pack runes, but I feel relying on getting hit is playing a waiting game, and then for the other 10 or so seconds (pack runes boost swiftness duration) I’m stuck at normal movement speed. The +25% movement speed from runes is awesome because it can’t be removed, and it’s always going on ! It would be awesome if guardians had a signet that did that like some other professions~

In sPvP I only get 6 seconds of swiftness from SYS

I forgot to address no CC offered. The only cc I have is binding blade from greatsword. In the OP I’m addressing the issue of not having any soft cc at all (cripple or chill)

I actually don’t see the need for guardians to have the extra soft CC (well you have affliction and signet of judgement). I mean you have teleports /leap, multiple sources of swiftness, hard CC, and multiple sources of immobilize.

For movement speed, mah couldn’t care less since it is probably used only when out of combat and swapped when going into combat.

Yes sure let’s buff the only guard weakness so it will have none. Don’t forget to give stealth to warriors and clones to thieves.

Aedrion.6483:

Most of the replies in this thread but few leave me to suspect I’m the only person here who actually duels pro players on various classes. Dps guardian is only OP if the other player is slow and fails to dodge.

If you think guardian should pick easy fights versus mesmers, engineers and necro’s, I dare you to fight the people I fight when trying that out. I doubt 85% of players commenting here could even scratch people from top 3 EU guilds.

These posts are irritating.

I’m only replying to this thread because I beat players like Misha and Xerrex on my dps guard without having to outplay them. Infact I haven’t lost a duel to a zerker Mesmer in months. So I think it’s dumb to buff guards to help with matchups like these.

I’m sorry if this offends you, I’ll stop posting about it now.

mrauls.6519:

Snipped

Ah ok. So you do realize you have hard CCs. Does it help knowing that they are some of the best hard CC’s in the game?

mrauls.6519:

My OP isn’t edited so you can ctrl+F and see I never said I never had any swiftness. Where did you pull that from?

mrauls.6519:

It’s not offered at all!

a t s e.9614:

Yes sure let’s buff the only guard weakness so it will have none. Don’t forget to give stealth to warriors and clones to thieves.

Mobility is another weakness getting into battle is easy getting out isn’t. You are probably looking at it from a 1v1 dueling standpoint as usual though.

i don’t play a guardian, but I always find myself in a group with one. My biggest issue with guardians is that they turn everything into a giant ball of light and it becomes impossible to see animations. Please fix.

oZii.2864:

a t s e.9614:

Yes sure let’s buff the only guard weakness so it will have none. Don’t forget to give stealth to warriors and clones to thieves.

Mobility is another weakness getting into battle is easy getting out isn’t. You are probably looking at it from a 1v1 dueling standpoint as usual though.

Not only 1v1 but anything. Guardian is in a very good spot there’s no need to add chill on symbols or giving it perma swiftness.

And from a 1v1 perspective , in order to kill a good guardian their weakness must be exploited like with any other class.

If this weakness is removed its just bad in every way, removing any kind of counter play.The OP said he plays DPS guard , I assume he plays meditation which is already very good.

Also power creep is bad, buffing random stuff instead of nerfing what is overpowered.

xFireize.6318:

mrauls.6519:

Snipped

Ah ok. So you do realize you have hard CCs. Does it help knowing that they are some of the best hard CC’s in the game?

mrauls.6519:

My OP isn’t edited so you can ctrl+F and see I never said I never had any swiftness. Where did you pull that from?

mrauls.6519:

It’s not offered at all!

Nowhere in my OP did I write “It’s not offered at all!”, and that little segment doesn’t write swiftness isn’t offered at all. You can bend words to seem what you want them to be but you have to look at it objectively, not subjectively. I know what that was in response to.

Some of the best hard cc’s? Are you joking? Some of the best hard cc’s come from warrior, thief, mesmer, elementalist, and engineer

a t s e.9614:

oZii.2864:

a t s e.9614:

Yes sure let’s buff the only guard weakness so it will have none. Don’t forget to give stealth to warriors and clones to thieves.

Mobility is another weakness getting into battle is easy getting out isn’t. You are probably looking at it from a 1v1 dueling standpoint as usual though.

Not only 1v1 but anything. Guardian is in a very good spot there’s no need to add chill on symbols or giving it perma swiftness.

And from a 1v1 perspective , in order to kill a good guardian their weakness must be exploited like with any other class.

If this weakness is removed its just bad in every way, removing any kind of counter play.The OP said he plays DPS guard , I assume he plays meditation which is already very good.

Also power creep is bad, buffing random stuff instead of nerfing what is overpowered.

No, I play w shouts. I’ve done so for a very, very long time . I feel like giving guardians more inherent mobility or a soft cc like chill or cripple will not remove any kind of counter play. Guardians when not mobile (funny, huh) are easy targets. They rely on dodging a lot, so when they’re hit w immobilize or a stun it leaves them very susceptible to damage

mrauls.6519:

xFireize.6318:

mrauls.6519:

Snipped

Ah ok. So you do realize you have hard CCs. Does it help knowing that they are some of the best hard CC’s in the game?

mrauls.6519:

My OP isn’t edited so you can ctrl+F and see I never said I never had any swiftness. Where did you pull that from?

mrauls.6519:

It’s not offered at all!

Nowhere in my OP did I write “It’s not offered at all!”, and that little segment doesn’t write swiftness isn’t offered at all. You can bend words to seem what you want them to be but you have to look at it objectively, not subjectively. I know what that was in response to.

Some of the best hard cc’s? Are you joking? Some of the best hard cc’s come from warrior, thief, mesmer, elementalist, and engineer

I was talking about Guardian not offering much Swiftness and CC; then you were like; “It’s not offered at all!”. So you were just referring to what? Only soft CC? It’s still far from “not offered at all”. Which part were you exaggerating then?

I don’t know about sPvP, but Blinding Blade and Ring of Warding are the most useful CCs in WvW, IMO.

From what I see, you refuse to sacrifice things for movement speed, but you complain about about not having a lot of it. Like you said, you tried Rune of the Pack, but you aren’t satisfied with up to 100% in combat swiftness up time (easily achieved with 20% boon duration and SY). You run shout but you refuse to use “Retreat!”. You don’t wanna roam slowly but you refuse to use staff.

This is just a whiny guardian thread. I’m out of here. It will be endless if you engage in it, but it will quickly sink if you ignore it.

xFireize.6318:

mrauls.6519:

xFireize.6318:

mrauls.6519:

Snipped

Ah ok. So you do realize you have hard CCs. Does it help knowing that they are some of the best hard CC’s in the game?

mrauls.6519:

My OP isn’t edited so you can ctrl+F and see I never said I never had any swiftness. Where did you pull that from?

mrauls.6519:

It’s not offered at all!

Nowhere in my OP did I write “It’s not offered at all!”, and that little segment doesn’t write swiftness isn’t offered at all. You can bend words to seem what you want them to be but you have to look at it objectively, not subjectively. I know what that was in response to.

Some of the best hard cc’s? Are you joking? Some of the best hard cc’s come from warrior, thief, mesmer, elementalist, and engineer

I was talking about Guardian not offering much Swiftness and CC; then you were like; “It’s not offered at all!”. So you were just referring to what? Only soft CC? It’s still far from “not offered at all”. Which part were you exaggerating then?

I don’t know about sPvP, but Blinding Blade and Ring of Warding are the most useful CCs in WvW, IMO.

From what I see, you refuse to sacrifice things for movement speed, but you complain about about not having a lot of it. Like you said, you tried Rune of the Pack, but you aren’t satisfied with up to 100% in combat swiftness up time (easily achieved with 20% boon duration and SY). You run shout but you refuse to use “Retreat!”. You don’t wanna roam slowly but you refuse to use staff.

This is just a whiny guardian thread. I’m out of here. It will be endless if you engage in it, but it will quickly sink if you ignore it.

If I’m the whiny guardian you must be the dead guardian . If you want to stop discussing then by all means please leave, and keep yourself from being disrespectful. I refuse to use retreat because it offers 2 boons on a 48 second cool down, and I prefer using HTL for a shorter cool down shout that gives two useful boons for me and can possibly clear condis faster. Yes, I was talking about soft cc. What do you mean it’s offered? What baseline cripple or chill do guardians have? Scepter has become very popular because it works well with meditations. Even then it’s single target with a 15 second cd?

You’re kind of acting like I can have all of these weapons active while in combat. I use greatsword/sword+focus. You pick certain things and what you don’t pick is opportunity cost. If I sacrifice anymore it cuts into my survivability. Surviving damage isn’t just how much you can reduce it by. Having a higher movement speed lets me weave in front of and behind enemies, get out of aoe faster, and deliver my own damage before they can escape. It’s harder to do most of the time because guardian doesn’t have its own baseline cripple/chill.

To achieve 20 boon duration w pack runes I have to invest 4 points into virtues (unless you’re using some type of buff food in WvW) which means I have to change my traiting. Adapting to things is a way of life, but why should I feel like I have to build around a certain rune? I’ve played 0/1/6/6/1 for a very long time, and even though ferocity changes dropped my damage by a lot I’m still finding ways to make it work.

If all I cared about was moving faster I’d just use staff and retreat, but honestly, what dps guardian wants to fight w those two things?

Have u guy ever notice how every class has some form of soft cc that can be constantly apply by their weapon skill. What about guardian? Nop nada non, we get kited around, we can’t chase after wounded prey. I have to completely agree with the op, either u do claim pro guardian are either bsin or hacking and use every weapon/utilities at once or just fighting some kitteny foe who thinks he can face tank a guardian and realize it when it’s too late.
Until u guy pro an actual video of a match where the opponent is not under lvl, under gear, with the right trait, skills, weapon and not get jump on, I am calling thus bs.

Thank you SundayTrash It’s very easy to kite a guardian, and that doesn’t help one bit when it comes to the fact our dps weapons are primarily melee

mrauls.6519:

Thank you SundayTrash It’s very easy to kite a guardian, and that doesn’t help one bit when it comes to the fact our dps weapons are primarily melee

I think ppl that claim guardian are op are the same rubbish that gets beaten by a guardian.

It is simply so that once you fight people that are very good at the game, it doesn’t matter how good you are, your obvious telegraphed moves and lack of CC will hamper you immensely.

As pointed out by SundayTrash, in low level PvP, hotjoin and Soloq, dps guardian can be very powerful because too many people facetank it. Experts at the game will not make those mistakes, and suddenly, the giant gaping hole that is lack of even 1 reliable soft CC becomes apparent.

I appreciate the comment Aedrion You point out some important things, and it’s important for people to realize how hard it is to stay engaged in combat as a guardian

Almost everybody thinks Medi guardian is OP and easy >_<

Must be why we see so many… oh wait…

Meditation guardians aren’t bad but they lack some survivability components when compared to a shout guardian. A major reason I won’t play it

That’s why you don’t see a lot of dps guards in higher levels of play. Sure, you can make it work and do relatively well. However you are better off going another profession for the most part.

The almighty Harbinger ! Thanks for your post. Guardians have half of what they need to currently be a player in the big leagues, now we just need that other half

Looking for more feedback of all kinds!

Most guardian builds don’t go above 10 points in Zeal. Having some kind of reliable soft CC source as a 20 Zeal point trait would require sacrifices on other areas, like blinds, vigor or condition removal.
If correctly balanced, I don’t think it would make offguards OP on a competitive enviroment; a team composition that allows the guardian to rotate with a nicely synergized spec would probably yield much better results than picking this trait. A Necro, for example, could benefit a lot from VoJ activation and stability (among othe rother things) while providing all the CC, soft and hard, the guardian lacks.
The trait could situationally be a great asset, however, for non-compeitive sPvP play (where rotations tend to be lackluster at best) or WvW roaming and I can’t see a reason for not having it.

Movement speed probably plays a bigger role on deciding if offguards are or not at competitive level. The offguard + necro combo, for example, might look decent (it’s probably awful, I’m far from a top sPvP player :P) but it’s extremely slow and just that might be more than enough to make it unviable.
The huge differeces on what every spec has to pay in order to boost its speed might be necessary for high level sPvP balance (I would still like to see some test regarding to this somewhere in the future), but at the same time there are crucial on deciding if a spec can properly solo roam or not in WvW.
I would like to see Swift Moa Feathers temporary boosted to 25%. This wouldn’t affect sPvP and would provide every spec/class the pretty much needed move speed to perform as a roamer just for the cost of the nourishment slot (100-200 points in the main damage attribute), which is much less build defining than the usual tradeoffs.
The idea of a PU Mesmer with a 25% speed boost scares me a bit, but in this case I think that PU itself would be the core of the issue and should be reworked at some point :P