Guild Wars 2

And I like how people like the above posters pretend that preserving “diversity” is a legitimate argument against nerfing. Fact is that people tend to run the most OP builds/classes.

I think the warrior is for the most part, just fine except for HS. My main problem with it is that it takes no effort to use but has the highest effective healing in the game.

isolatedchimp.2510:

And I like how people like the above posters pretend that preserving “diversity” is a legitimate argument against nerfing. Fact is that people tend to run the most OP builds/classes.

I think the warrior is for the most part, just fine except for HS. My main problem with it is that it takes no effort to use but has the highest effective healing in the game.

I like how checking your messages you visit every war HS thread and whine, and defend any engineer is op thread.
Face it, you play engi and lose to a warrior

Ill make it simple for your. lets pretend Hs heals for 300 hps instead of 400. its 1k less health per 10s, 3k less per 30. Now do the math and count milliseconds to do that damage to a target.

Load gw2, create a warrior, try beating any decent good engie. good luck, u will need it, because goot engie wont ever die 1×1 to a warrior, slowly chipping it to a death or forcing him to retreat. Maybe its you who is bad, not the game?

havoc.6814:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

You seem to not comprehend that having one class be specifically mentioned as possibly having trouble with conditions and having no other classes mentioned as potentially having that same weakness sort of implies that warrior should have a harder time dealing with conditions with equal investment into that capacity, which is not the case currently. Warriors have some of the best condition removal in the game accessible with little (compared to what other classes have to do) investment.

So before you start waxing eloquent about how other people are just stupid for not understanding the word “may”, please give some more serious thought to the logical basis of your argument.
Honestly, they could have been using “may” in the sense that warriors don’t have trouble with conditions when conditions are not being applied to them, which frankly makes a lot more sense than giving warriors permission to have trouble with conditions (which is how you interpret it).

I didn’t interpret anything. The statement made by the dev was very simple, plain English usage. The meaning is very obvious and does not require interpretation. You are the one trying to invent reasons to be able to interpret it to mean something different than what was obviously said. If what you are suggesting were true, then the devs would have said that the warrior “will” have trouble with conditions. People do not generally phrase their statements to be intentionally confusing or to sound like they are saying something else when explaining a concept. Stop trying to imagine that the Dev wanted to say something other than what he said. Stop building straw houses.

Noliver.1475:

Allow me to tell you why may is used…

If they say must, that means every single condition will and must give problems to warriors, even with just 1 stack of bleed. Which is not the case. Warriors can shed of 1 stack of bleed without anything but their hp even at prebuff..

May is used to tell you that when Warriors face enough conditions, it will have a hard time. It is to imply that conditions are Warrior’s weakness.

with your use of may, I can also say warriors are OP because they
may have permanent stealth (when someone drops smoke field with blast finish beside them every 3 seconds)
may have permanent invunerability (picking up a Exlir of Heros every 5 seconds…

Having such sustain, dps, permanent stealth and permanent invunarability is too overpowered.

See the above statement to P Fun Daddy (lol, that must be a 12 yo with a name like that). You to are inventing straw arguments (and are obviously really having to stretch your imagination when you start talking about warriors and stealth). The dev statement is in simple English and easily understood. Try learning the language, it will help your understanding greatly. Stop building straw houses.

As an example, “It may rain today” does not mean I am giving permission to the weather, which is how you are attempting to use the developer statement.
I’m not sure why you’re being so stubborn about admitting that the word “may” has alternate meanings from “has permission to”.
You would think that it is fairly obvious that the use of “may” in this context implies possibility and not permission, but apparently I need to spell it out for you.
I mean really, how stupid would it be if the developers used a fairly large portion of their balancing statement with respect to warriors to state that warriors are allowed to have a hard time with conditions if they choose to?
I have to agree with your response to me, in that it is so incredibly obvious which “may” they are using that you would have to have a weak grasp of the language in order to even attempt to pursue your argument.

If you need sources, the first entry on dictionary.com is as follows:
1. (used to express possibility): It may rain. (funny coincidence here actually, I made my above example before seeing this)
In this example, you can see clearly how the statement that warriors “may” have a hard time with conditions was intended, because any other application of the word makes absolutely no sense in context.

Here is the link if you don’t believe me:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/may

I’m not sure why I wasted this much time arguing with somebody who is so obviously wrong.

P.S. I will admit that my username is somewhat ridiculous, but it is actually somewhat of a play on my last name, though I’m not particularly sure that “havoc” implies any higher level of maturity. Also, this is an example of an “Ad hominem” argument, in that you are attacking irrelevant aspects of my person in order to make my argument seem less credible.

WhiteRose.6934:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

…Poor survivability in PvE…

What game are you playing where warriors have poor survivability at all? I can assure you it’s not GW2.

Lol. This made me laugh. Well played.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

You would think that it is fairly obvious that the use of “may” in this context implies possibility and not permission, but apparently I need to spell it out for you.

I have never claimed that the word "may was being used to mean permission. I claimed that it was being used to denote a possibility. Do you have any capacity for deductive reasoning at all? You wrote all that tripe based on an apparent inability to deduce what I was writing? Do I have to use smaller words for you?

On topic: Warriors are fairly well balanced right now. The constant cries for nerfs by those who are unable to recognize this simple fact are just cries for help because those people can’t be bothered to learn to play properly. Anet has largely ignored, and will continue to ignore, the mass negativity that these people bring because, like the OP of this topic, the make such ridiculous suggestions and fabulous claims that the devs quite simply can’t take them seriously.

havoc.6814:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

You would think that it is fairly obvious that the use of “may” in this context implies possibility and not permission, but apparently I need to spell it out for you.

I have never claimed that the word "may was being used to mean permission. I claimed that it was being used to denote a possibility. Do you have any capacity for deductive reasoning at all? You wrote all that tripe based on an apparent inability to deduce what I was writing? Do I have to use smaller words for you?

On topic: Warriors are fairly well balanced right now. The constant cries for nerfs by those who are unable to recognize this simple fact are just cries for help because those people can’t be bothered to learn to play properly. Anet has largely ignored, and will continue to ignore, the mass negativity that these people bring because, like the OP of this topic, the make such ridiculous suggestions and fabulous claims that the devs quite simply can’t take them seriously.

Sorry, I misunderstood your first post on the subject. You seemed to be implying that the developers wanted warriors to have the choice to be weak against conditions, exactly like other classes.

What the developers seem to be implying, or rather directly stating, is that a warrior should always be weaker against conditions than other classes with the same investment in countering conditions, which is not currently the case as a result of healing signet, high health, cleansing ire, and dogged march, each of which make warrior comparatively strong with relatively little investment.

On a side note, please stop with the condescension and stream of insults. It only weakens your argument, and certainly does not make you look good.

havoc.6814:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

You seem to not comprehend that having one class be specifically mentioned as possibly having trouble with conditions and having no other classes mentioned as potentially having that same weakness sort of implies that warrior should have a harder time dealing with conditions with equal investment into that capacity, which is not the case currently. Warriors have some of the best condition removal in the game accessible with little (compared to what other classes have to do) investment.

So before you start waxing eloquent about how other people are just stupid for not understanding the word “may”, please give some more serious thought to the logical basis of your argument.
Honestly, they could have been using “may” in the sense that warriors don’t have trouble with conditions when conditions are not being applied to them, which frankly makes a lot more sense than giving warriors permission to have trouble with conditions (which is how you interpret it).

I didn’t interpret anything. The statement made by the dev was very simple, plain English usage. The meaning is very obvious and does not require interpretation. You are the one trying to invent reasons to be able to interpret it to mean something different than what was obviously said. If what you are suggesting were true, then the devs would have said that the warrior “will” have trouble with conditions. People do not generally phrase their statements to be intentionally confusing or to sound like they are saying something else when explaining a concept. Stop trying to imagine that the Dev wanted to say something other than what he said. Stop building straw houses.

Noliver.1475:

Allow me to tell you why may is used…

If they say must, that means every single condition will and must give problems to warriors, even with just 1 stack of bleed. Which is not the case. Warriors can shed of 1 stack of bleed without anything but their hp even at prebuff..

May is used to tell you that when Warriors face enough conditions, it will have a hard time. It is to imply that conditions are Warrior’s weakness.

with your use of may, I can also say warriors are OP because they
may have permanent stealth (when someone drops smoke field with blast finish beside them every 3 seconds)
may have permanent invunerability (picking up a Exlir of Heros every 5 seconds…

Having such sustain, dps, permanent stealth and permanent invunarability is too overpowered.

See the above statement to P Fun Daddy (lol, that must be a 12 yo with a name like that). You to are inventing straw arguments (and are obviously really having to stretch your imagination when you start talking about warriors and stealth). The dev statement is in simple English and easily understood. Try learning the language, it will help your understanding greatly. Stop building straw houses.

lol same can be said to you. For what basis do you base on that the devs were actually meaning what you say?

Stop building straw houses, and also you might need to look up what may means..

You keep using the phrase straw arguments, I dont think it means what you think it means.

I am implying that the devs wanted warriors to have that choice, and again, the dev’s never, ever stated that warriors “should” always be weaker agaist conditions than other professions. Please stop putting words into their mouths. What they stated is clear and perfectly understandable. You do not need to rephrase it to understand it. Any time you start changing the actual words (from “may” to “should” for example), you are attempting to alter what they said to make it meet your personal desires. This is simply rediculous.

Warriors are weaker (against conditions) than other classes with the same investment in countering conditions. Keep in mind that many professions get automatic condition removal (when traited). The warrior does not. He has to trait for it, then also successfully use other skills for the condi removal.

• Dogged March only reduces the duration on cripple, chill, and immob. It does not remove them; it does not affect other conditions.
• Cleansing Ire allows a warrior to remove conditions only if his burst skill hits. This means that a well-timed dodge or blind will cause the warrior to fail to remove those conditions.
• The high health of the warrior has been in the game since the beginning thereof and has no place in your argument.
• Healing Signet cures no conditions and while it grants the warrior a little better sustain, it can be very quickly overpowered by conditions ( I can overpower it with just 4 bleed stacks on my warrior, and I can stack dozens of bleeds really quickly)

This is the reason why so many warriors also run additional condition cleansing on utility skills, Melandru’s or Lyssa’s runes, and condi-reduction food. If warriors were really so super OP against conditions as you seem to claim, then why would they bother with the overkill? They wouldn’t. They would run with some offensive runes and food instead.

On the side note, I don’t give a kitten whether I look good or not. I also find it hard not to be condescending to those who simply refuse to understand the simplest of sentences, and insist on misquoting others to back up their claims.

havoc.6814:

I am implying that the devs wanted warriors to have that choice, and again, the dev’s never, ever stated that warriors “should” always be weaker agaist conditions than other professions. Please stop putting words into their mouths. What they stated is clear and perfectly understandable. You do not need to rephrase it to understand it. Any time you start changing the actual words (from “may” to “should” for example), you are attempting to alter what they said to make it meet your personal desires. This is simply rediculous.

Warriors are weaker (against conditions) than other classes with the same investment in countering conditions. Keep in mind that many professions get automatic condition removal (when traited). The warrior does not. He has to trait for it, then also successfully use other skills for the condi removal.

• Dogged March only reduces the duration on cripple, chill, and immob. It does not remove them; it does not affect other conditions.
• Cleansing Ire allows a warrior to remove conditions only if his burst skill hits. This means that a well-timed dodge or blind will cause the warrior to fail to remove those conditions.
• The high health of the warrior has been in the game since the beginning thereof and has no place in your argument.
• Healing Signet cures no conditions and while it grants the warrior a little better sustain, it can be very quickly overpowered by conditions ( I can overpower it with just 4 bleed stacks on my warrior, and I can stack dozens of bleeds really quickly)

This is the reason why so many warriors also run additional condition cleansing on utility skills, Melandru’s or Lyssa’s runes, and condi-reduction food. If warriors were really so super OP against conditions as you seem to claim, then why would they bother with the overkill? They wouldn’t. They would run with some offensive runes and food instead.

On the side note, I don’t give a kitten whether I look good or not. I also find it hard not to be condescending to those who simply refuse to understand the simplest of sentences, and insist on misquoting others to back up their claims.

Super OP? No. Better at dealing with conditions than most other classes? Yes.

Talk about misquoting.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Super OP? No. Better at dealing with conditions than most other classes? Yes.

Talk about misquoting.

I’ll just refer you to the following link since you seem to have no idea what the various professions have for condition removal. You will note that the warrior actually has fewer skills and traits for dealing with conditions than other professions. You can count, can’t you? Go count them then….

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_removal#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Talk about misquoting? I have misquoted no one. That is your little trick.

havoc.6814:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Super OP? No. Better at dealing with conditions than most other classes? Yes.

Talk about misquoting.

I’ll just refer you to the following link since you seem to have no idea what the various professions have for condition removal. You will note that the warrior actually has fewer skills and traits for dealing with conditions than other professions. You can count, can’t you? Go count them then….

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_removal#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Talk about misquoting? I have misquoted no one. That is your little trick.

I would like to know where I said that warrior condition cleansing was “Super OP”, or even overpowered. It is certainly more than several other professions with the same investment, and that seems to go against the design philosophy.
Certainly Dogged March is by far the best trait of its type, and for half as much investment as any other class. Cleansing Ire is undeniably the single best condition removal from traits except for possibly Shadow’s Embrace (Even that is arguable, because it only works in stealth and cannot be controlled), has a secondary effect that boosts its main effect, and only costs twenty points, compared to inferior cleanses from grandmaster traits in pretty much every other class, and Quick Breathing isn’t too shabby either for a master trait that also reduces cooldowns. Berserker Stance and Signet of Stamina are both either equal to or better than all but Elixir C, Plague Signet and Contemplation of Purity (and in the case of Berserker Stance that is debatable).

The only areas where Warrior does not have access to some of the absolute best cleansing is weapon skills and healing skills (not to say that healing signet is bad at dealing with conditions, just that it doesn’t do it directly, and mending still exists). Only four professions have cleansing weapon skills, and all in extremely limited quantities. Necro, as the master of conditions, has two 3-condition transfers (offhand dagger and staff), Elementalist has four total over all weapon sets, Thief has one, and Guardian has two (one of which doesn’t work on himself).

In conclusion, Warriors are by no means weaker to conditions than other classes, even disregarding base health and passive healing. They have the strongest counters to conditions in both traits and utilities, and don’t have low health to make them innately more weak.

The actual number of skills and traits that remove conditions is, for the most part, irrelevant, because the vast majority of them are weak and not ever really considered for their cleansing.

havoc.6814:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Super OP? No. Better at dealing with conditions than most other classes? Yes.

Talk about misquoting.

I’ll just refer you to the following link since you seem to have no idea what the various professions have for condition removal. You will note that the warrior actually has fewer skills and traits for dealing with conditions than other professions. You can count, can’t you? Go count them then….

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_removal#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Talk about misquoting? I have misquoted no one. That is your little trick.

counting them doesnt proof anything. The warrior gets with 20points in defense 2 condi removes that removes up to 3 conditions (which cant all be dodge) on a <10 seconds CD each, plus health regen, plus reduction of cripple. Thats more than every other class gets out of 20 points.

Moving cleansing ire to grandmaster or to tactics would help a lot. If the warrior may have problems with conditions, then he may should invest alot of points into defensive traits and skills, to compensate this, and not 20.

havoc.6814:

On topic: Warriors are fairly well balanced right now. The constant cries for nerfs by those who are unable to recognize this simple fact are just cries for help because those people can’t be bothered to learn to play properly. Anet has largely ignored, and will continue to ignore, the mass negativity that these people bring because, like the OP of this topic, the make such ridiculous suggestions and fabulous claims that the devs quite simply can’t take them seriously.

You seem to imagine a lot of things, even what Anet ignores and what does not. “Cries for help” lol.
I would like warrior to be 15k health because the time I am ready to bring them down their Forest Gump run skills and their invulnerabilities are out of CD, and I must chase them all over the map again. (the usual bad ones, I have my fair share of wins and defeats vs good warrior players).

havoc.6814:

I am right; you are wrong. It’s really that simple.

Anyway, this is my last reply to you. I have learned to stop arguing with people like you.
They bring me down to their level, and at low level they win by experience.

whyme.3281:

havoc.6814:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Super OP? No. Better at dealing with conditions than most other classes? Yes.

Talk about misquoting.

I’ll just refer you to the following link since you seem to have no idea what the various professions have for condition removal. You will note that the warrior actually has fewer skills and traits for dealing with conditions than other professions. You can count, can’t you? Go count them then….

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_removal#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Talk about misquoting? I have misquoted no one. That is your little trick.

counting them doesnt proof anything. The warrior gets with 20points in defense 2 condi removes that removes up to 3 conditions (which cant all be dodge) on a <10 seconds CD each, plus health regen, plus reduction of cripple. Thats more than every other class gets out of 20 points.

Moving cleansing ire to grandmaster or to tactics would help a lot. If the warrior may have problems with conditions, then he may should invest alot of points into defensive traits and skills, to compensate this, and not 20.

counting helps you to take your head out of your kitten . u dont realise that your mentioned defensice traits pick up means you are specing to be anticondi? i never ever pick reduction to criple, waste of a trait. And you are forced to put 20 points into cleansing ire. why not hammer spec or other traits – nope, you cant. want to have hammer trait – must put 30 point into toughness tree.
And srsly, play a warrior and then yell. You dont land every single blast. even hammer aoe stun misses when blinded, /dodged, which happens ALOT. Not to mention u dont kitten adrenaline, u wont build 3 bars of it on a whim.
So following your logic, warrior can even pick lyssa runes ( dont remember how those called, removes all condi on use), so much condi cleanse right? a necro can refresh his condi in like 5s? can converts your boons into condis? spams them left and right and u can remove 3 every 10s if your are lucky? pls, scrublord, go play sims if this game too hard for u

Kanenas.4906:

havoc.6814:

On topic: Warriors are fairly well balanced right now. The constant cries for nerfs by those who are unable to recognize this simple fact are just cries for help because those people can’t be bothered to learn to play properly. Anet has largely ignored, and will continue to ignore, the mass negativity that these people bring because, like the OP of this topic, the make such ridiculous suggestions and fabulous claims that the devs quite simply can’t take them seriously.

You seem to imagine a lot of things, even what Anet ignores and what does not. “Cries for help” lol.
I would like warrior to be 15k health because the time I am ready to bring them down their Forest Gump run skills and their invulnerabilities are out of CD, and I must chase them all over the map again. (the usual bad ones, I have my fair share of wins and defeats vs good warrior players).

havoc.6814:

I am right; you are wrong. It’s really that simple.

Anyway, this is my last reply to you. I have learned to stop arguing with people like you.
They bring me down to their level, and at low level they win by experience.

Actually if you could even get remotely close to where havoc is it would be a really good thing for you.

Harper.4173:

Actually if you could even get remotely close to where havoc is it would be a really good thing for you.

Again, you do the same mistake. You contribute nothing to the topic, and you make comments like you know me.
You may know him, but you do not know me and where I am to be able to judge.
I wander why I keep answering to you…Anyway it is the last time.

This topic is about warriors, and if they should keep their 18k base health or not, after all the buffs they got.
I think they should not, since they have not any weakness anymore. Please talk about this and stay away of personal attacks and insults.

whyme.3281:

havoc.6814:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Super OP? No. Better at dealing with conditions than most other classes? Yes.

Talk about misquoting.

I’ll just refer you to the following link since you seem to have no idea what the various professions have for condition removal. You will note that the warrior actually has fewer skills and traits for dealing with conditions than other professions. You can count, can’t you? Go count them then….

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_removal#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Talk about misquoting? I have misquoted no one. That is your little trick.

counting them doesnt proof anything. The warrior gets with 20points in defense 2 condi removes that removes up to 3 conditions (which cant all be dodge) on a <10 seconds CD each, plus health regen, plus reduction of cripple. Thats more than every other class gets out of 20 points.

Moving cleansing ire to grandmaster or to tactics would help a lot. If the warrior may have problems with conditions, then he may should invest alot of points into defensive traits and skills, to compensate this, and not 20.

Cleansing Ire is in the right spot. If you move it to GM you remove build diversity. Look at Rangers and Eles and what mandatory 30pt traits cause. Moving it to tactics likely wouldn’t have any real impact on anything because isn’t the current meta build 0/0/30/30/10? Or something very close to this?

Better to just move Adrenal Health or remove the regen component from Dogged March.