Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
[PvP] Immobilize stacking is not fun!
I disagree. When I was playing a sword and board war and I was using flurry, people use their 1 second immobilize and then the enemy gets away. I rather not get greifed by my own teammates accidentally every time
You’re just going to have to live with it.
If I use a maxed Skull Bash and a thief uses Pistol Whip, my 3 second stun is turned into 1/2 a second, just how it is.
_________________________________________________
The major issue isn’t stacking on a single person, the big issue is it stacking on MULTIPLE people.For example, in a group fight, two sword Warriors both use Flurry on two people. Maxed out, that is easily 8-10 SECONDS of immobilize on two people.
Cleanse it right? Well no, it’s a group fight, conditions are being tossed everywhere. Necromancers spamming Marks, Rangers bleeding with Axes and Warriors spreading fire.
Immobilize is LAST on the cleansing order, you’ll get rid of the bleeding but with the amount of conditions being blasted around everywhere on basic attacks, you’re going to be stuck for 10 seconds.
THAT IS NOT FUN!!
So anything you don’t consider to be fun has to be removed, but things which somebody else may like and wish to keep have to be removed, because ‘tough luck my fun is more important’?
That sounds perfectly fair and logical.
So, you enjoy this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IALcvY6cTzw
I am… Amazed.
Check your logic because I believe it is broken.And yes, there is a cleanse order. PvP more and you’ll see it.
Your pointless snide remarks are so very helpful.
Unless you have empirical evidence that an overwhelming amount of players find this anti-fun and want to see it removed, then your opinion isn’t any more valid than that of anyone else. And even less justified since it is based on nothing but making your own play time enjoyable without any regard to game balance.
And if you had paid attention and actually participated in the thread rather than attacking people and enforcing your opinion as word of God, you would note that I stated on that very page that I don’t think it should be reverted or stay the way it is, it is overpowered, but it was worthless, there is an area of balance between those two points. An area we’ll never get to so long as rage-driven zealots insist on one extreme or the other because of a few poor experiences.
You can deny plainly obvious mechanics all you want to excuse your poor play, there is no cleanse order. The cleansing mechanic is explained on the wiki plain as day and no evidence indicates it works otherwise. What is put on first is removed last, it works just like the FILO system in MTG.
(edited by Conncept.7638)
I disagree. When I was playing a sword and board war and I was using flurry, people use their 1 second immobilize and then the enemy gets away. I rather not get greifed by my own teammates accidentally every time
You’re just going to have to live with it.
If I use a maxed Skull Bash and a thief uses Pistol Whip, my 3 second stun is turned into 1/2 a second, just how it is.
_________________________________________________
The major issue isn’t stacking on a single person, the big issue is it stacking on MULTIPLE people.For example, in a group fight, two sword Warriors both use Flurry on two people. Maxed out, that is easily 8-10 SECONDS of immobilize on two people.
Cleanse it right? Well no, it’s a group fight, conditions are being tossed everywhere. Necromancers spamming Marks, Rangers bleeding with Axes and Warriors spreading fire.
Immobilize is LAST on the cleansing order, you’ll get rid of the bleeding but with the amount of conditions being blasted around everywhere on basic attacks, you’re going to be stuck for 10 seconds.
THAT IS NOT FUN!!
So anything you don’t consider to be fun has to be removed, but things which somebody else may like and wish to keep have to be removed, because ‘tough luck my fun is more important’?
That sounds perfectly fair and logical.
So, you enjoy this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IALcvY6cTzw
I am… Amazed.
Check your logic because I believe it is broken.And yes, there is a cleanse order. PvP more and you’ll see it.
Your pointless snide remarks are so very helpful.
Unless you have empirical evidence that an overwhelming amount of players find this anti-fun and want to see it removed, then your opinion isn’t any more valid than that of anyone else. And even less justified since it is based on nothing but making your own play time enjoyable without any regard to game balance.
And if you had paid attention and actually participated in the thread rather than attacking people and enforcing your opinion as word of God, you would note that I stated on that very page that I don’t think it should be reverted or stay the way it is, it is overpowered, but it was worthless, there is an area of balance between those two points. An area we’ll never get to so long as rage-driven zealots insist on one extreme or the other because of a few poor experiences.
You can deny plainly obvious mechanics all you want to excuse your poor play, there is no cleanse order. The cleansing mechanic is explained on the wiki plain as day and no evidence indicates it works otherwise. What is put on first is removed last, it works just like the FILO system in MTG.
i see your points, but i know that many people are fed up with the immobilie stacking and other cc’s. in wvw u get stunlocked all the time. 2 theives attacking u can pretty much lock u down while bashing u. the soft and hard cc in wvw is very broken and everyone i know is fed up with it.
i dont mind getting immobilized for a couple of seconds or getting stunned, but getting immobilized for that long and getting cc’e, chilled and crippled makes an encounter way less fun for me.
only because u can perma immobilize a target and then perma knockdown and stun someone to death, doesnt mean u are a good player. i see it as a cheap tactic to be honest.
i dont mind cc, but cc shouldnt satck ever, immobilize shouldnt be a condition, and there needs to be an immunity for a few sec after u got cced.
my frind played for the first time again after 7 months last night and he was like omg whats up with this crazy immobilize and chill spam?
from my point of view:
immobilize, shouldnt stack, should be able to be removed with stunbreakers
knockdowns, should grant immunity after o u have the chance to get up and react
knockbacks, same ^
pulls,same
chill should not be stackable past 10 seconds
cripple, should not last longer than 15 seconds
interrupts should also not be chainable, give the player a chance to use their skills after interrupt
Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
I disagree. When I was playing a sword and board war and I was using flurry, people use their 1 second immobilize and then the enemy gets away. I rather not get greifed by my own teammates accidentally every time
You’re just going to have to live with it.
If I use a maxed Skull Bash and a thief uses Pistol Whip, my 3 second stun is turned into 1/2 a second, just how it is.
_________________________________________________
The major issue isn’t stacking on a single person, the big issue is it stacking on MULTIPLE people.For example, in a group fight, two sword Warriors both use Flurry on two people. Maxed out, that is easily 8-10 SECONDS of immobilize on two people.
Cleanse it right? Well no, it’s a group fight, conditions are being tossed everywhere. Necromancers spamming Marks, Rangers bleeding with Axes and Warriors spreading fire.
Immobilize is LAST on the cleansing order, you’ll get rid of the bleeding but with the amount of conditions being blasted around everywhere on basic attacks, you’re going to be stuck for 10 seconds.
THAT IS NOT FUN!!
So anything you don’t consider to be fun has to be removed, but things which somebody else may like and wish to keep have to be removed, because ‘tough luck my fun is more important’?
That sounds perfectly fair and logical.
So, you enjoy this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IALcvY6cTzw
I am… Amazed.
Check your logic because I believe it is broken.And yes, there is a cleanse order. PvP more and you’ll see it.
Your pointless snide remarks are so very helpful.
Unless you have empirical evidence that an overwhelming amount of players find this anti-fun and want to see it removed, then your opinion isn’t any more valid than that of anyone else. And even less justified since it is based on nothing but making your own play time enjoyable without any regard to game balance.
And if you had paid attention and actually participated in the thread rather than attacking people and enforcing your opinion as word of God, you would note that I stated on that very page that I don’t think it should be reverted or stay the way it is, it is overpowered, but it was worthless, there is an area of balance between those two points. An area we’ll never get to so long as rage-driven zealots insist on one extreme or the other because of a few poor experiences.
You can deny plainly obvious mechanics all you want to excuse your poor play, there is no cleanse order. The cleansing mechanic is explained on the wiki plain as day and no evidence indicates it works otherwise. What is put on first is removed last, it works just like the FILO system in MTG.
There is a cleansing order, the order conditions that have been applied is the same order that gets removed. You’ve basically been arguing with me on the same exact thing.
__________________________________________________
The cleansing order is bugged, immobilize is ALWAYS put last. So if a Warrior uses Pin Down through a fire field, the order SHOULD be Burning > Immobilize > Bleeding.
But no, it’s Immobilize > Burning > Bleeding.
If an Engineer lands a critical with Net Shot, it SHOULD be Burning > Immobilize but it’s the other way around instead.
Conditions applied by skills have order priority over additives (traits, fields, runes, sigils etc.) but that rule does not apply to immobilize, making it very easy to stack because it has so much protection.
__________________________________________________
Secondly, your ‘suggestion’ doesn’t fix anything, the biggest issue with immobilize is team fights. Because the order immobilize is applied, it has the most protection. But you wouldn’t know that, would you?
__________________________________________________
Also, poor play? That’s adorable considering the fact you can never beat me in a duel.
No matter what build or class, I know your skill level is far inferior to my own and I’ll be happy to prove it; I’ll even use a handicap and bring my Elementalist.
Nerfing CC across the board isn’t a solution. See: Past MMORPGs.
I don’t know a better solution, but just nerfing the hell out of CC isn’t one.
Most CCs like KD and stun aren’t causing the ridiculous over-use that is stacking immobilise. Its completely out of control in WvW, it should be no-stack (or 2 stacks at most if it must).
There is a cleansing order, the order conditions that have been applied is the same order that gets removed. You’ve basically been arguing with me on the same exact thing.
Riiiiiight… that’s totally what you meant, you weren’t obviously ignorant of the game mechanic prior to looking it up after my last post…
The cleansing order is bugged, immobilize is ALWAYS put last. So if a Warrior uses Pin Down through a fire field, the order SHOULD be Burning > Immobilize > Bleeding.
But no, it’s Immobilize > Burning > Bleeding.
If an Engineer lands a critical with Net Shot, it SHOULD be Burning > Immobilize but it’s the other way around instead.
Conditions applied by skills have order priority over additives (traits, fields, runes, sigils etc.) but that rule does not apply to immobilize, making it very easy to stack because it has so much protection.
Evidence? Any? I thought not.
Even in the video you provided immobilize is applied first then covered by other conditions. If this bug is so prevalent, it should be a simple matter for you to find evidence of it. So where is it?
Secondly, your ‘suggestion’ doesn’t fix anything, the biggest issue with immobilize is team fights. Because the order immobilize is applied, it has the most protection. But you wouldn’t know that, would you?
Don’t critique what you obviously didn’t take the time to read. My suggestion would more than double the amount of immobilize breakers and most importantly provide breakers which would work regardless of the condition stack order, or your imaginary bug for that matter.
Also, poor play? That’s adorable considering the fact you can never beat me in a duel.
No matter what build or class, I know your skill level is far inferior to my own and I’ll be happy to prove it; I’ll even use a handicap and bring my Elementalist.
Frankly you probably could, I have this thing called ‘a life’, which prevents me from being SO HARDCORE RARRRRGH I AM AWESOME!!!
And that’s not what I was talking about. When I lose, I can admit it that in most cases that it was because the other person was my better or had some kind of advantage over my playstyle. There is no player more poor than one who cries ‘bugs’ and ‘hacks’ every time he loses.
(edited by Conncept.7638)
Keeping this thread bumped due to its importance.
As for Immobilise, there is no cleansing order bug. Immobilise applies FIRST before other modifiers such as, say Sitting Duck from Engineer Firearms pile on extra conditions. The same also applies to Pin Down from Warrior. Immobilise is applied first before the Bleeds.
The end result is that Immobilise is cleansed last simply because there are covering conditions. To be perfectly honest, Immobilise is better this way because making it apply last would make cleansing Immobilise a little too trivial.
The problem is and has always been Immobilise stacking.
That said, there could be some improvements made to the whole system if Immobilise must be stacked. The main thing here is to refresh its order to the top of the queue if Immobilise is re-applied. In this way, refreshed durations are not buried underneath all the cover conditions.
- This would make Immobilise stacking capable of being combo broken since there is an opportunity for the player to cleanse Immobilise at the top of the queue when it is re-applied. It’s not ideal, because again, many attacks that apply Immobilise may also have other cover conditions attached to it, but it’s something.
- Further iterating on that idea, code could be written to force Immobilise to the top of the queue if it is reapplied.
- Obviously the ideal solution here is to forego any requirement for more coding and instead reduce maximum possible Immobilise stacks to 1 or 2; then do a balance pass across skills that pulse Immobilise or can reapply it repeatedly.
Iva Malthias – 80 Engineer
Marellune Malthias – 80 Elementalist
Devil’s Dominion [DD] – Yak’s Bend
Marellune Malthias – 80 Elementalist
Devil’s Dominion [DD] – Yak’s Bend
Or of course, they could just get rid of immobilize stacking and refrain from fiddling with skills that were perfectly fine before the unasked-for change.
I just wish they would revert the changes they made to immobilize. Either that or double the cooldown on every skill that can apply immobilize and cut the duration of the immobilize in half. It’s pretty ridiculous the way it is right now. Every fight in wvw just comes down to who can spam immobilize and other conditions the most. Treating immobilize the same way as fear is and allowing stunbreakers to break it could also help.
Here is the trouble. Outside of immobilize, there really is no way to effectively kite heavy armor melee. Range damage physical particularly) is woefully weak in comparison to melee and there just isn’t enough time at range to whittle them down.
At this point, it is hard to imagine a good solution that will not offend everyone.
I think specific skills are the problem. Devourer venom thief can immobilize for 4 sec before any extenders. Someone mentioned Glue Bomb as a problem…. really? 1 sec immobilize is the problem?
I think specific skills are the problem. Devourer venom thief can immobilize for 4 sec before any extenders. Someone mentioned Glue Bomb as a problem…. really? 1 sec immobilize is the problem?
The problem isn’t the 1 second, the issue is AoE.
In my opinion, it’s okay to single out a target with 4 seconds of immobilize.
IT IS NOT OKAY to hit 3-4 people with 2-3 seconds of immobilize. Since it stacks, sure you hit 3 people with a 1 second glue bomb but then your Mesmer got hit with a Pin Down and Net Shot.
Now your Mesmer is dead in the water and you are in no position to quickly go and rescue him/her.
tPvP matches are boiled down to that, snare the enemy team, focus a target. Rinse and repeat.
It is a pain AS BOTH teams are doing the same tactics. Making for some very limiting and stale gameplay.
(edited by Nova Stiker.8396)
Yes please change this back to what it was. Immob stacking is broken.
Here is the trouble. Outside of immobilize, there really is no way to effectively kite heavy armor melee. Range damage physical particularly) is woefully weak in comparison to melee and there just isn’t enough time at range to whittle them down.
At this point, it is hard to imagine a good solution that will not offend everyone.
If this was the problem they should have improved crippling, at least then the crippled player can still deal with his situation, its less binary than immobilise.
Immobilise stacking is actually ridiculous in all aspects of the game. I was immobilised by some Risen spiders during the new wurm event for around 8 seconds. My cleanses and heal had already been used up during the event and were on CD, so I couldn’t do anything and basically just died to some random Risen spiders that had nothing to do with the Wurm event. If immobilise didn’t stack and I wouldn’t have died so needlessly.
You can’t stack stun or daze, but apparently it’s okay for an arguably more powerful form of CC (cannot be broken with a stun breaker/ can be covered by other conditions to prevent removal) to do just that.
I honestly don’t get it.
Gandara
Immobilize needs to be treated as a CC instead of a condition, since in the right situations it is effectively a stun.
Then less bonuses would apply which would help reign in the stacking, while still keeping it non trivial to remove since regular condition removal does not apply.
Immobilize needs to be treated as a CC instead of a condition, since in the right situations it is effectively a stun.
Then less bonuses would apply which would help reign in the stacking, while still keeping it non trivial to remove since regular condition removal does not apply.
I would agree with this as it would be a decent fix.
Except everyone is already running around with 2-3 stun breakers on their bars because of how useful stun is.
It would drastically hurt Immobilize, the best and easiest solution in my opinion is reverting it back to 1 stack max.
Frankly the single worst part about immobilize is that it prevents dodging. If I could still dodge and just not move, I wouldn’t mind it so much, but when having it on you completely removes half of your active defenses, it really hurts. This stuff shouldn’t stack at all. It just a bit less potency than daze (because you can still dodge while dazed so you’re not defenseless), but think of how horrifying daze would be if it stacked eight seconds in duration and you had to use multiple stun breaks just to get rid of it.
i completely agree with op. immob stacking can get ridiculous. Ive personally maxed out at 10 seconds of immob from a venom share. a 10 second stun is ludicrous. Just like the op said, fix this. only one stack of immob should be allowed.
I am a teef
:)
:)
I am torn. How many of you posters play a melee damage class?
One of the key problems of the game has been that ranged damage can’t whittle anyone down very much before they are in “smashface” mode.
The immobilize buff helped.
But it would be pretty boring to just sit.
On the other hand, it is pretty frustrating to be ranged damage with melee in your face in seconds.If it is toned down, there needs to be something done to make melee’s ability to close range far less effective.
Then the fault is placed on the condition cripple or chill for not doing it’s job. Immobilise stacking is as most of you people put it too “cheese” for high level game play.
I have no idea why this is still a thing. It’s completely ridiculous.
On my warrior, I do pin down => throw bolas => flurry. Before the immob ends, I can use throw bolas again D;. It’s really funny against people who don’t carry enough condition removal.
? <(^-^><)>^-^)> <(^-^)> ?