Guild Wars 2

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Sarrs.4831:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I don’t know what needs to be done, but I do think that it does seem a bit unfair that Necros suffer no decay whatsoever.

I don’t think comparing a necro at 0 LF and a warrior at 0 adrenaline is a fair comparison. In particular, that warrior could have naturally ended that fight at 0 adrenaline, because he’s already cycled out several F1s. The necro could have been exceedingly frugal with their LF, because they’re thinking “i need to save my LF so i have a chance in the next fight, when more than one person tries to attack me”.

The skills are fundamentally different, how the resources work are fundamentally different, what you do to generate the resources is fundamentally different… And while there might be some merit to making Life Force decay (more than it already does), I think it would both require a lot of balancing to make work, and require a potentially unhealthy amount of homogenization.

I understand that different classes require different balancing standards, but it does seem odd that you just get to keep that LF forever until you die/leave the area.

@life force vs adrenaline:
If a necromancer escapes a battle, he most likely used a big portion of his life force to accomplish that. I would say it is uncommon for a necro to escape a battle – if at all – with 50% life force. It would be more around 0-20%. If a necromancer faces a warrior, both with 0 adrenaline and life force in commonly used builds. Then the warrior is at an advantage. His adrenaline fills way way faster and if he is good, he can even deny a big portion of life force gain for the necromancer.

In such a scenario it is possible to prevent the necromancer from using its class mechanic. This is a common issue for any necromancer starting a PvP match. However, many circumvent that by using for instance flesh worm and killing it at the beginning of the match to gain some life force. With this initial life force, a fight can start of way more balanced. Some builds however, who use DS as a big part of their power damage might still be at a big disadvantage.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I understand that different classes require different balancing standards, but it does seem odd that you just get to keep that LF forever until you die/leave the area.

You keep your LF when you die.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

They don’t have larger numbers of escape tools (except compared to necros and guardians). What they have are much lower cooldowns. The only profession that can get away better is a Thief, and they are designed to do that. Extreme mobility is one of the primary defenses because they can’t stand to be in combat long. Warriors can, but they can disengage almost as easily and come charging right back in due to low cooldowns on those mobility skills.

Warriors can’t disengage easily from combat, unless you are using gs or sword. And een then chill, cripple or immobilize ruin their day.

And most of the melee weapons have some sort of leap or dash for Warriors. Greatsword has two, Sword has one, Axe and hammer both have their burst skills. Longest cooldown on any of those? 20 seconds. Even banners have a dash (15 second cooldown).

No. Just no. Have you ever looked at thebuild editor? You’re not making sense, and it seems like you have NEVER played this game.

1) burst skills have 10 secs CD, at most.
2) eviscerate is a leap with a range of 300… which means that slows you down. And anyway, with the new patch you’ll be losing adrenaline if you use burst skills without hitting anything.
3) nobody uses banners in pvp.
4) nobody uses gs in pvp.

Burning Retreat: 20 seconds

I was talking about burning speed (15 sec CD), not burning retreat, sorry (you can’t have a staff and an offhand dagger after all)[/quote]

RtL: 40 seconds (if used as an escape)
Decoy: 40 seconds
Elixer S: 60 seconds
Flesh Wurm: 40 seconds (requires pre-casting for escape use, can’t be used to chase)

The shortest cooldown on any of these skills is equal to the longest cooldown on a Warrior’s weapon skills. Most are at least twice that cooldown.

You said that warriors use berserker stance and SoR to get away. The cooldown on those two is 60 secs on both.
Sword or gs warriors are good runners, but they aren’t meta build so i really don’t understand how can you see warriors escaping “all the time” from fights in pvp.

Axe burst and hambw, the most used build in pvp, have absolutely 0 mobility, so I really can’t understand where this meme of the fleeing warriors originated.

Sitting on a capture point with low mobility builds may be fine for pvp, if you ever played wvw you would know where this “meme of the fleeing warriors originated”. Most warriors I see use hammer/gs, axe+shield/gs or mace+shield/gs. All of them have access to greatsword´s gap openers and speed, making it impossible to catch them if you´re not a thief, d/d elementalist or warrior yourself.
My mesmer wouldn´t catch them even if I build for maximum mobility (perma speed, Phase Retreat forward with traited staff, Blink with increased range and reduced cooldown). My damage with this setup would be absolutly terrible and I would be still slower than a warrior. This is definitly more of a wvw problem, but even in pvp, warriors are quite tanky, hard to cc due to Berserker´s Stance, Cleansing Ire and Dogged March and they have solid passive healing. Those features alone allow them to run from a lot of fights if they want to and it´s neccessary.

Schattenlied.4873:

Sitting on a capture point with low mobility builds may be fine for pvp, if you ever played wvw you would know where this “meme of the fleeing warriors originated”. Most warriors I see use hammer/gs, axe+shield/gs or mace+shield/gs. All of them have access to greatsword´s gap openers and speed, making it impossible to catch them if you´re not a thief, d/d elementalist or warrior yourself.

Wvw roaming is not supposed to be balanced.
Gs is pretty much a tax for any warrior build in wvw, since it’s the only way for them to run away from zergs. Warriors lose quite a bit of CC and condi removal to gain that mobility.

In wvw there are troll builds that are WAY more op than any warrior one, yet no one complains about condi thief/engi or PU mesmers.

This is definitly more of a wvw problem, but even in pvp, warriors are quite tanky, hard to cc due to Berserker´s Stance, Cleansing Ire and Dogged March and they have solid passive healing. Those features alone allow them to run from a lot of fights if they want to and it´s neccessary.

Dogged march is not a good trait for pvp, and most classes have escape tools better than “running while crossing my fingers”.

I did not want to say “OMG warrior mobility OP!!!”, I just pointed out where those complaints about warrior´s speed are coming from. For my lockdown/interrupt mesmer I use staff more often recently, although sword+pistol would be much stronger in a fight. It´s a tradeoff for mobility, the same way warriors have to do it. BUT if you compare warrior with other classes, they get really good mobility and a solid weapon. My staff gives me good kiting abilities but is lacking damage in a power build. Necromancers are even worse, Fleshworm, Spectral Walk and warhorn would be the most “mobile” setup i could imagine and it´s still easy to catch and offers mediocre fighting power for most setups. I hope you see what i mean, there are few builds in wvw that are as fast as warriors while hitting decently hard.

Regarding cheese builds in wvw you´re absolutly right, there are a lot of things that are worse than running warriors out there – but you also see a lot of people complaining about them. What I don´t like about warriors is this “I´ve beaten this stupid idiot but then he runs away without paying for his mistakes”-feeling. That´s a bit different to losing a fight vs. “cheese” builds, but still annoying. :P

It’s not only that. Let’s say you fight in a XvX scenario and one of your mates is downed. The most classes could stomb your mate now but probably get downed too afterwards. A warrior stombs and runs.

Schattenlied.4873:

Regarding cheese builds in wvw you´re absolutly right, there are a lot of things that are worse than running warriors out there – but you also see a lot of people complaining about them. What I don´t like about warriors is this “I´ve beaten this stupid idiot but then he runs away without paying for his mistakes”-feeling. That´s a bit different to losing a fight vs. “cheese” builds, but still annoying. :P

warrior gs is a pretty crappy weapon, while mesmer’s staff is atleast good for condition dmg.
And you can get the same feeling by fighting a thief or ele… if he runs away, it means you’ve won. That’s the same thing I think when a thief disengages and comes back 2-3 times in a row.

Arcades.4689:

Schattenlied.4873:

Regarding cheese builds in wvw you´re absolutly right, there are a lot of things that are worse than running warriors out there – but you also see a lot of people complaining about them. What I don´t like about warriors is this “I´ve beaten this stupid idiot but then he runs away without paying for his mistakes”-feeling. That´s a bit different to losing a fight vs. “cheese” builds, but still annoying. :P

warrior gs is a pretty crappy weapon, while mesmer’s staff is atleast good for condition dmg.
And you can get the same feeling by fighting a thief or ele… if he runs away, it means you’ve won. That’s the same thing I think when a thief disengages and comes back 2-3 times in a row.

And when the Warrior comes back before you’ve even exited combat, having passively regenerated a hefty portion of his health (yes, Thieves do it too)? If you’re not a Warrior yourself, you probably don’t get to enjoy the healing in the short downtime without blowing skill cooldowns that you want for when he returns.

Even in PvP, Sword users are pretty common, so that’s a good leap on a short cooldown if they want to run away. I did not say every Warrior runs there, but I do see them leave a fight with almost a perfect record if they choose.

It could stand to be toned down some. Not much, because I recognize they need those gap closers, but some small nerfs would be good.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Arcades.4689:

Schattenlied.4873:

Regarding cheese builds in wvw you´re absolutly right, there are a lot of things that are worse than running warriors out there – but you also see a lot of people complaining about them. What I don´t like about warriors is this “I´ve beaten this stupid idiot but then he runs away without paying for his mistakes”-feeling. That´s a bit different to losing a fight vs. “cheese” builds, but still annoying. :P

warrior gs is a pretty crappy weapon, while mesmer’s staff is atleast good for condition dmg.
And you can get the same feeling by fighting a thief or ele… if he runs away, it means you’ve won. That’s the same thing I think when a thief disengages and comes back 2-3 times in a row.

And when the Warrior comes back before you’ve even exited combat, having passively regenerated a hefty portion of his health (yes, Thieves do it too)? If you’re not a Warrior yourself, you probably don’t get to enjoy the healing in the short downtime without blowing skill cooldowns that you want for when he returns.

Even in PvP, Sword users are pretty common, so that’s a good leap on a short cooldown if they want to run away. I did not say every Warrior runs there, but I do see them leave a fight with almost a perfect record if they choose.

It could stand to be toned down some. Not much, because I recognize they need those gap closers, but some small nerfs would be good.

Don’t know about you, but I’ve never had any problem catching a warrior in pvp (unless he’s using sword and uses berserker stance, maybe), that’s way far from a perfect record.

Wvw roaming, as I said, 1)is not supposed to be balanced 2)if someone resets the fights 2-3 times trying to kill me i just laugh and think “what a bad loser”.
And at least you can see a warrior running after you, while you can’t see a thief doing the same.

EDIT: I don’t think any warrior would complain much if Rush would get fixed even if its CD increased to 25 its range reduced to 900. But really, there are way too mani posts on this forum about the running warriors QQ I can’t catch them with my zerg, they are gods of mobility omg nerf.

Arcades.4689:

Wvw roaming is not supposed to be balanced.
Gs is pretty much a tax for any warrior build in wvw, since it’s the only way for them to run away from zergs. Warriors lose quite a bit of CC and condi removal to gain that mobility.

Not supposed to be balanced should only apply as far as ‘up levels’ go. And just because it isn’t as balanced as PvP, that means clear problems should not be fixed? The GS escape is just lame, and unlike some argue, ‘no’ you can not catch up to a GS warrior on a thief (I tried many times). And lets face it, if a thief or a ele runs, it’s understandable, you can likely blow them away if they didn’t. A warrior though is a different story, they shouldn’t even have this high mobility because they are fairly Omni-potent already… But fear not, due to the change to Banners, they can now drop their GS and just use a banner to get away, or better yet, use both…

In wvw there are troll builds that are WAY more op than any warrior one, yet no one complains about condi thief/engi or PU mesmers.

This is just so full of Kitten that I can hardly take you serious anymore… Thieves take all the kitten because ANet decided to add stealth, much against the advice of the whole GW1 community, now thieves are stuck with it and ANet wishes they would just go away… Condi Thief is so easy to deal with on a warrior, with high condi clear, high health and high armour, and if you can’t well just run away… Please tell me which other profession can run from a zerg? As a thief I can stealth if on time (that is a big if though), and maybe an Ele can get away everybody else is screwed, so why should a warrior be able to get away. Condi Engies do get complaints, but lets face it, they have 1,5 sort of viable builds, so I can cut them some slack (though that one ‘dump everything at once build’ is just silly)… and the same with PU mesmers, actually I would say that next to the thief, the Mesmer takes the most dislike in WvW of all professions. I would not be surprised if this build is toned down just a little… due to complaints…

In general I just can not understand this, from my point of view Warriors get toned down a tad, maybe by like 5% in areas that don’t really matter much anyways, and overall they are buffed beyond believe (again). They receive MORE run skills on banner, get Thief like burst on GS, get more viable builds. If there is any community that should pretty much wisely ‘keep their mouths shut’ it is the warrior community.

And you personally don’t know what the kitten you are talking about when you say that other professions take no complaints. The thief is pretty much a pile of poo, other than capping ‘sentries’ or ‘bloodlust’ in WvW. Ohw yeah, I can stealth for 15 sec straight so I can spy on people taking a tower or keep so I can inform my commander so he can take appropriate action, and I guess I can blast fire fields. YAY! And that all due to people that are frustrated that a thief has stealth, and thus they can not kill them, which by now they know is so kitten easy, because what ever armour they put on, they are still glass…

Now you may be a great sPvP warrior player, and know your stuff, but you clearly lack WvW knowledge and general ‘profession complaint’ knowledge, so don’t try and act all wise and take some hints from those who do, it doesn’t make you look to good. While your comments might well be viable in PvP (I do not comment on them from that perspective because I know I do not know). And don’t look down on other game formats, just because it’s not yours, it makes you look even worse…

Mostly, If high evade isn’t a problem in PvP, and you do know what you are talking about in sPvP sense, then why the heck defend it for WvW where it is a problem. That skill should have ‘a target’ to pull off, and the range reduced. If Anet thinks high mobility (running away) is a thing, then warriors and guardians should be the worst of the bunch, and there are a number of other professions that should gain some to get a fair chance…

Arghore.8340:

Not supposed to be balanced should only apply as far as ‘up levels’ go. And just because it isn’t as balanced as PvP, that means clear problems should not be fixed? The GS escape is just lame, and unlike some argue, ‘no’ you can not catch up to a GS warrior on a thief (I tried many times). And lets face it, if a thief or a ele runs, it’s understandable, you can likely blow them away if they didn’t. A warrior though is a different story, they shouldn’t even have this high mobility because they are fairly Omni-potent already… But fear not, due to the change to Banners, they can now drop their GS and just use a banner to get away, or better yet, use both…

Just time your steal to interrupt their rush and you’ve caught them.
Also, banner ALWAYS had a sprint move. They even “nerfed” it, since now it doesn’t deal damage and it’s a simple sprint.

So, you don’t know what you’re talking about. What a suprise.

This is just so full of Kitten that I can hardly take you serious anymore… Thieves take all the kitten because ANet decided to add stealth, much against the advice of the whole GW1 community, now thieves are stuck with it and ANet wishes they would just go away… Condi Thief is so easy to deal with on a warrior, with high condi clear, high health and high armour, and if you can’t well just run away…

high armor is soooooooooo useful against condi thief.
Condi thief can disengage at will, are almost impossible to catch up and can just troll you while spamming pistol #2 while having pretty good survivability. Everyone hate those guys.

Please tell me which other profession can run from a zerg? As a thief I can stealth if on time (that is a big if though), and maybe an Ele can get away everybody else is screwed, so why should a warrior be able to get away.

QQ I can’t catch warriors with my zerg. unless the warrior has a great loc advantage (or is built around mobility and therefore loses quite a lot of dmg) any thief worth its salt can catch him.

In general I just can not understand this, from my point of view Warriors get toned down a tad, maybe by like 5% in areas that don’t really matter much anyways, and overall they are buffed beyond believe (again). They receive MORE run skills on banner, get Thief like burst on GS, get more viable builds. If there is any community that should pretty much wisely ‘keep their mouths shut’ it is the warrior community.

Lol, you’re awesome. Adrenaline received a huge nerf, and the sprint skill on the banner has ALWAYS been there. You don’t know what you’re talking about, this is just a giant rant about 3-4 players that you can’t catch not even with a thief.

Now you may be a great sPvP warrior player, and know your stuff, but you clearly lack WvW knowledge and general ‘profession complaint’ knowledge, so don’t try and act all wise and take some hints from those who do, it doesn’t make you look to good. While your comments might well be viable in PvP (I do not comment on them from that perspective because I know I do not know). And don’t look down on other game formats, just because it’s not yours, it makes you look even worse…

Wvw roaming is not a game format. Wvw is made for zergs, or at least, gvg.
Just like nobody cares about trolling builds useless in point capture, nobody should complain about troll builds useless in a party for wvw.

Mostly, If high evade isn’t a problem in PvP, and you do know what you are talking about in sPvP sense, then why the heck defend it for WvW where it is a problem. That skill should have ‘a target’ to pull off, and the range reduced. If Anet thinks high mobility (running away) is a thing, then warriors and guardians should be the worst of the bunch, and there are a number of other professions that should gain some to get a fair chance…

evade =/= mobility.
I still can’t understand why a thief or ele that disengage from combat is fine, while a warrior is not. Warriors have to sacrifice quite a lot to gain that mobility, you know (yes, taking gs is a sacrifice. That weapon is, at best, mediocre and the hated gap closer is glitchy).

I think that ANY warrior out there would think that a CD increase (20->25 secs) and a range reduction (1200->900) would be worth paying for a fix to that kitten useless skill.
So warriors would rejoice since they’d gain a decent combat skill, and you’ll have to find something else to complain about. Everyone is happy.

I am OK with the conversation shifting from the Balance changes to profession comparisons and talks on Warrior Mobility.

Mainly because once the changes go live, we will see the state of Warrior afterwards and determine whether or not the skill gap has been increased between good warriors and bad ones, and whether or not the mobility is justified since the profession as a whole got changed to be a little bit less ‘hand-holding’ than before.

….However, it is a bit too soon to start immediately calling for comparisons between Warrior and Necromancers, since the Necromancer Skill Bar has not be released yet.

It would be more of a relevant discussion if we found out that something similar was done to Necromancer Life-Force (although not nearly to the extent of Adrenaline Decay) happens.

…I am also rooting for a Necromancer change that includes a cleave on one weapon.

- lol, just time your bolas or w/e stun in the 3 seconds of reveal and you caught them… thing is though, if you catch a thief he is done for, if you catch a warrior he basically has all his skills off of cooldown, so basically you didn’t catch him, he caught you…

- At least I am willing to admit where I know and don’t know things, instead of talking about kittens…

- see first, 3 sec reveal and 4 sec in PvP… come on… heck at least you recognize that your first statement about ‘thieves are not complaint about’ was a complete litter of kittens…

- I’m not QQ’ing , this is a balance concern where the warrior gets to do stuff that nobody else even stands a chance of doing. And no ‘not everythief’ I run 25% speed buff, with ‘sprint on dodge’ and shortbow. Sure I can almost catch up with the 1st GS sprint, but as I get close it’s already back off cool down and after that 2nd there is no use to pursue any further. Similar to an elementalist that times his RTL and Flame w/e that is well.

- From my point of view ‘adrenalin’ got a bug fix, where b4 it was just some build it up bar on w/e you do, it’s now an actual mechanic that makes sense. But for one thing though, which remains to be seen, I would find it quite lame if a warrior would entirely deplete his adrenalin on a miss, though not gaining anything that sounds like common sense. And the depletion even more so.

And it’s not like the warrior actually got nerved with this, no, it received a bunch of buffs to compensate for the loss. There are quite some professions that wish theirs nerfs were treated with a similar approach.

- Like I said, it makes you look even worse…

- You may want to compare the warrior’s options to that of other professions, and even then it seems that the warrior is pretty much Omni-Potent. Sure it has to sacrifice something to a more ‘medium level of power’ to also do something else. But look at that GS 5ppl -50% spike you guys got… Sure taking GS is such a ‘sacrifice’…

For the thief Disengage is the spice of life, we can not even fight a sustained fight for anything but a short burst, not even when you play condi, which is easily countered by many professions, and really 3-4 sec reveal should be more then enough to lock a thief in place, as stealth doesn’t mean ‘invulnerable’. I would say that i die more often in stealth, or get pulled or pushed out of shadow refuge, or simply stunned in it, then i care to remember.

As far as the ele is concerned, maybe that has to do with how easy it is to kill them if they didn’t have this option (so basically the same as thief). The warrior however, isn’t killed easily, perhaps this could shed some light on it, check armour/HP:
full zerg warrior: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQJARSjMdU4ZdH+dwJagfAxYgHHHtR972lB-T1REAB5s/wSK/W4IAwmuAAeAAIq+jWKBBA-w
you have 3 shots on that hammer in 3(4) sec of revealed to make sure he’s dead… and the sword doesn’t look like much of a sacrifice if you build on it

full condi thief: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAqYVlsMp8pdPxzJ0PNxLBxjf/WzDEAA-TFyCABAcCAEa/hjfCAAqHwT1fSUJYWK/Q+QAAA-w
i didn’t even fill out the thief build, because there isn’t much armour or toughness to gain in the traits, and obviously i gave the warrior a shot, not going for a full zerker thief build

- And it needing a target to even work, so it’s a gap closer not a run away skill. and 30 sec sounds a lot better, that way it could remain 1 time gap creator. Though again, that all depends on what Anet want with these skills, if more professions get decent gap closers and makers, then your proposal sounds reasonable for a heavy classes, given that traiting for swords would take some seconds off of it…

- And lastly, i am not complaining, i am responding to your complaining because you were just spewing nonsense amongst it.

Your post is just a wall of text full of nonsense. Adrenaline nerf is a bug fix and not a nerf? Warriors got buffed?
Your build is a signet warrior for wvw with no stability and no bersreker stance. With restorative strength, healing signet and no cleansing ire or dogged march. Worst build I’ve ever seen.
I’ll say that again: you don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s not even funny.

Hint: grab sleight of hand to interrupt rush with steal. Remove signet of shadow and grab shadowstep. Take uncatchable, and leave combined training alone…

Again, i made those builds to illustrate the differences in Armour and Health between the two. I will assume you just missed that bit, or that seeing you were just confronted with the inconvenient truth decided to just throw it all into a personal ‘you don’t know kittens’ attack.

Your attitude isn’t even funny, I’m done here. Good luck and Have Fun in your sPvP.

Is this the thread where we compare class mechanics that seem similar but in practice are entirely different?

You could have just left utilities empty if you wanted to show the “inconvenient truth”.

If you’re a condi thief that can’t kite a warrior then yes, you really don’t know kittens.
If you don’t know why warrior have higher base stats than other classes, then yes, you don’t know kittens.

Arcades.4689:

You could have just left utilities empty if you wanted to show the “inconvenient truth”.

If you’re a condi thief that can’t kite a warrior then yes, you really don’t know kittens.
If you don’t know why warrior have higher base stats than other classes, then yes, you don’t know kittens.

Originally it was to make up for their weakness against sustained fights and conditions (which they had problems in sustained fights originally with them unable to keep up the healing for long periods of time, and their inability to get rid of many conditions). They buffed the class so they no longer have that weakness. So technically they have to nerf something to make up for this, whether stats, mechanics, or something else.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I certainly expected worse. Thoughts:

• I still won’t use offhand Axe until it has a reflect. Sword offhand has a block and Shield has a block and a stun. Trading that sort of utility/sustain for a a damage skill that has a really obvious animation.

reflect would be too strong considering ranger has an axe skills doing the same but locked in place.
50% block could be nice tho

sMihaly.1492:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I certainly expected worse. Thoughts:

• I still won’t use offhand Axe until it has a reflect. Sword offhand has a block and Shield has a block and a stun. Trading that sort of utility/sustain for a a damage skill that has a really obvious animation.

reflect would be too strong considering ranger has an axe skills doing the same but locked in place.
50% block could be nice tho

Different class, different skills. I would rather have lower damage and a reflect than just damage.

Arcades.4689:

You could have just left utilities empty if you wanted to show the “inconvenient truth”.

If you’re a condi thief that can’t kite a warrior then yes, you really don’t know kittens.
If you don’t know why warrior have higher base stats than other classes, then yes, you don’t know kittens.

I took the link that was posted earlier in this thread and then started working on it, I was first trying to build something to deal specifically with thieves, but as I was looking around the warrior, it was like a thief walking through a jewelry shop… so at some point I just said sod it, i’ll throw the signets up here, then do the thief … as it was taking to long already…

And I dunno, but I would invite you to come into WvW and actually ‘kite’ anything, except for some very occasional 1v1’s, also why kite? I can just go invis. right?

But anyways, yes I don’t know much about warrior, or sPvP tactics and play. I’m not even a thief expert… But I do have a nose for ‘kitten litter’ and the smell of it tends to tickle me in a way I just can’t refuse… it’s also why I hardly ever come here, opinions here are seldom backed with fact, and while I’m open for fair and friendly debate. When it comes to people’s precious professions that is hardly ever the case, even more so when it deals with nerfing said profession…

Which btw. I would not like to see for any profession, what I would like to see is objective and pro-active balancing. If the warrior is the base level of where Anet thinks it is at, then why are so many professions way behind in power level… why is it that the warrior can do so many things so effortless where other profession need to twist an arm and a leg. That’s also what I meant with the adrenalin being a ‘bug fix’, it’s was a straight up power buff with no draw-backs, now it has some, great it’s fixed, no need to add all the other buffs to a profession that’s already got everything… but I guess that last bit is just my opinion based upon ‘what the heck do I know’…

Yeah I know why the warrior has higher base stats, or atleast I know what I would like to point out as a reason based upon how this conversation is going, but I’m not here to get into a fight. I’m here to answer some of your responses to me to show that I’m more then willing to have a reasonable conversation, if that is possible. So please, fill in the traits and skills, chances are high that I will actually learn something … obviously I will sniff it out for any kitten litter in there, but if we can both agree on the builds, then we can perhaps compare them more objectively and see how ‘fair’ that line up is.

I actually love reading these threads.

It seems like something is only a problem worth complaining about if a warrior is doing it.

This isn’t on topic but thief being able to disengage really well? Ok no problem, warrior can disengage? It’s a problem.

Condi thief being immortal killing machines 1v1? Oh they are annoying, but oh well. Terrormancers one shotting squishes in a fear chain? Oh well. But a condi warrior doing something similar? Needs to be beaten with the nerf bat.