Is this going to lead in the direction of non-competitive PvPers not having a clue about anything?
Yes? The reason I proposed this change was based on the position Mesmers are in right now in PvP game modes (ie. tPvP and WvW roaming).
It is hard to have a reasonable discussion if you disregard peoples opinion this way just because you feel they don’t meet personally set requirements. Besides, deeming someone else unworthy doesn’t make your point of view more true.
I don’t need to frequently play competitive PvP to understand the issue with DE.
It improves meta builds. I’m scared when thinking about 30/10/0/0/30.
That’s the point. The Mesmer’s place in the meta right now is near the bottom, as far as PvP modes are concerned, and it doesn’t look like ANet are going to be bringing other professions down to our level. Ergo, these kinds of buffs are becoming necessary.
Power creep.
Really? I thought your intention was honorable. Like… creating build diversity.
I guess you actually did sugarcoat your suggestion after all.
Improving meta build is the worst reasoning for class changes. This will ultimatively result in a class balance which is focussed on a small subset of builds. Eventually there won’t be any possible way to be at least remotely efficient when not playing a meta build. You just killed all build diversity. Congrats.
I run with 20 points into Duelling nowadays, however I don’t bother with deceptive evasion because I find that I really don’t need it. Those points to me are better spent on I – Far Reaching Manipulations and II – Phantasmal Fury.
It really is as someone has said previously, a crutch. I rather save my dodges for when I actually need them, as I found that deceptive evasion promoted wasteful dodging if anything. I know for not taking DE, I’ve become a better Mesmer for it.
(I’d love to see it moved to 25 minor just to see what would happen)
As more as I play it, I realize is not a pure shatter build. Phantasms hit quite hard and you need to take advantage of that. Also, a lot of your damage comes from Illusionary Riposte.
Roaming not only means duels. This build can easily solo camps around 1 min if you change Decoy for Feedback and OF sword for focus.
About duels. I’ve only had 2 serious duels. One against a condi thief, which I won after a 10 min fight, and a PU condi mesmer, in which a thief broke into and we couldn’t finish. The thief was quite easy, I don’t remember my health falling under 8k. With the mesmer I had more problems, but I was fighting without foods and also was testing S/P, which didn’t convinced me at all.
I even had time to roam with some randoms, and still it has good AoE spike and good pressure.
PD: Shattered conditions is bugged with IP, so better take Restorative or put 10 from Illusions to Dueling to be more supportive.
DE needs to be moved down or made inbuilt, Just like Thiefs mug trait it is a %100 necessity, except luckily for thieves mug is a adept trait. If mug can be a adept trait then DE should be aswell otherwise mesmers will continue to be forced to make builds with 20 pts less because we need DE.
The mesmer class feels incomplete without DE, which is a much deeper issue but i doubt it can be addressed without a expansion or something.
+1 for dueling in the mists.
+1 for 3v3 or 2v2 deathmatch
DE needs to be moved down or made inbuilt, Just like Thiefs mug trait it is a %100 necessity, except luckily for thieves mug is a adept trait. If mug can be a adept trait then DE should be aswell otherwise mesmers will continue to be forced to make builds with 20 pts less because we need DE.
The mesmer class feels incomplete without DE, which is a much deeper issue but i doubt it can be addressed without a expansion or something.
The ONLY way it should be allowed to be moved down/made part of the class is if it was nerfed.
1) 10 second cool down added before another dodge clone can be made
2) Won’t create another clone if you already have 3 clones/ 2 clones 1 phantasm / 1 clone 2 phantasm up.
That sort of change happens then i think it wouldn’t be so bad. The fact it is SO strong for Mesmers in its current state means that it should NOT be made into a class mechanic or moved down without it being nerfed.
I’ve read the arguments both for and against moving DE down to Adept. It seems like it’d be a good thing in the sense that it’ll open more trait options for shatter mesmers, but it doesn’t really promote build diversity since it’s still a necessary trait.
I guess a better idea would be to keep DE where it is, but add some traits that create more diversity for clone creation, like a trait that creates a clone on interruption, or creates a clone whenever you crit with a 10-15sec cooldown. These will create other ways to pump out clones without necessitating DE.
Also, as it is clones are good for one thing: shattering them. And I get that that’s the mesmer mechanic. But it’d be nice to have more interaction with them, such as swapping places with them or refocusing a clone’s target, etc.
Ironically nerfing clone damage has resulted in traits like DE and other clone generation boosters becoming vitally important in increasing soft defense and damage out put….since the main remaining use is shattering/clone death for most clones, staff clones being a notable exception.
DE needs to be moved down or made inbuilt, Just like Thiefs mug trait it is a %100 necessity, except luckily for thieves mug is a adept trait. If mug can be a adept trait then DE should be aswell otherwise mesmers will continue to be forced to make builds with 20 pts less because we need DE.
The mesmer class feels incomplete without DE, which is a much deeper issue but i doubt it can be addressed without a expansion or something.
The ONLY way it should be allowed to be moved down/made part of the class is if it was nerfed.
1) 10 second cool down added before another dodge clone can be made
2) Won’t create another clone if you already have 3 clones/ 2 clones 1 phantasm / 1 clone 2 phantasm up.
That sort of change happens then i think it wouldn’t be so bad. The fact it is SO strong for Mesmers in its current state means that it should NOT be made into a class mechanic or moved down without it being nerfed.
It’s not that it’s so strong for mesmers it’s that it’s necessary for mesmers. Have you tried making a tournament viable pvp build without deceptive evasion? It’s one of the most painful experiences ever…. The fact is it is nearly impossible for a pvp mesmer to function without DE. Most other classes have much greater build diversity. Going outside meta builds may hurt them some but it won’t make them worthless…. Not having DE makes most tournament mesmers worthless…. So yes move it down or just make it part of our class mechanic and be done with it.
Mesmer is a very fun and interesting concept of a class but the fact that I can never really change my build to expeirment has made the gameplay stale and boring.
