Guild Wars 2

why can the ele and engineer have access to only 2 sigils? while everyone else have access to 4?

because elementalist essentially have 4 weapon sets, if you gave them 2 sigils for each weapon set that would be very over powered, same goes with engi and the kits.

why do elementalist have 20 weapon skills while everyone else (except engineer) have 10 weapon skills?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

why do elementalist have 20 weapon skills while everyone else (except engineer) have 10 weapon skills?

why does everyone else have the ability to change range at choice during combat and have MUCH lower cool downs on weapon skills, heals, utilities, defensive skills, elites….

Hey, Engie’s kits take up a skill slot while others have an entirely different and seperate way to switch weapons. Dont have to add upgrade slot to kits or attunements, just have a possible spot on equipment window that we can place 2 more sigils that bind them in some way that works similar to binding them to weapons.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

why do elementalist have 20 weapon skills while everyone else (except engineer) have 10 weapon skills?

why does everyone else have the ability to change range at choice during combat and have MUCH lower cool downs on weapon skills, heals, utilities, defensive skills, elites….

I find myself using auto attack way less on my staff ele than on my warrior.

Also eles have a heal with 15s cooldown, thats the lowest in the game (if you don’t take account passive heals what eles also have).

Paavotar.3971:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

why do elementalist have 20 weapon skills while everyone else (except engineer) have 10 weapon skills?

why does everyone else have the ability to change range at choice during combat and have MUCH lower cool downs on weapon skills, heals, utilities, defensive skills, elites….

I find myself using auto attack way less on my staff ele than on my warrior.

Also eles have a heal with 15s cooldown, thats the lowest in the game (if you don’t take account passive heals what eles also have).

It’s technically a 19 second cooldown. The cooldown doesn’t start until the four second channel finishes.
Thieves have two that actually are on a 15 (16 1/4 after cast-time for one, the other is instant) second cooldown, and mesmer has one as well (also 16 1/4 after cast-time), in addition to mantra of recovery, which is weird but technically only has a ~12.5 second coooldown, and is the actual lowest heal cooldown in the game.

So, no.

Hitman.5829:

why can the ele and engineer have access to only 2 sigils? while everyone else have access to 4?

Dunno. Why do Eles have four weapons they can swap between in combat, and others only 2?

They do have 4 attunements but those 4 do the same as 2 weapon sets do on other classes but with only 2 sigils instead of 4 which is unfair. And look at the cooldowns ele skills have …

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

why do elementalist have 20 weapon skills while everyone else (except engineer) have 10 weapon skills?

Why do everyone else have access to low recharge skills while the ele skills last for 40+ second cooldown? Why do ele have to use traits to lower the cooldown on these skills to 35 sec cooldown (which is still a very long cooldown)?

renss.5764:

They do have 4 attunements but those 4 do the same as 2 weapon sets do on other classes but with only 2 sigils instead of 4 which is unfair. And look at the cooldowns ele skills have …

Untraited Staff ele,
Fire : 1 -6 -10- 20 – 30
Water : 1-4-20-40-45
Air:1-10-30-30-40
earth : 1-6-30-30-30

breakdown – compared with ranger untraited, cause it’s the class I know best
Fire, 1- pretty much the same as LB max range in terms of damage and cast time
fire, 2- fire field every 6 seconds that deals 296 damage on a 1200 range – rangers have access to 2 fire fields; one every 15 seconds that deals burning damage and one every 25 sec for equivalent damage (who stays more than one tick in those) (and not ranged)
Fire 3, small AoE attack (5 sec burning on 180 radius) – closest equivalent on ranger would be throw torch, 15 sec CD, one target only, less damage
Fire 4, small evade (1 sec), combo fire field, closes equivalent: Lightening reflex, 40 sec cd, no combo field, lower damage than one tick of Ele burning retreat…
Fire 5, equivelent on ranger would be LB5, same CD, more damage and cast time for Ele

Water 1, no equivalent.
2, possible 5 stacks vulnerability for 10 seconds every 4 seconds. ranger’s equivalent wuld be maul : 5 stacks of vulne for 8 seconds every 6 seconds

3 and 5, equivalent would be ranger’s healing spring, on a 30 sec CD (one of ele is shorter, the other longer)
4 : Ice field – ranged – for 2 sec chill on 40 sec CD – unblockable. Ranger has Ice field for 1 sec chill on 30 sec CD, not ranged; also unblockable…

Air
1 – Ele hits less fast than ranger’s axe
2 – ranger don’t really have blind, except randomly on porcines pet F2 (40 sec CD, not sure what we get, no damage attached)
3- knockback that one is longer on ele than ranger’s LB
4- no direct equivalent : without curing condis – so speed only, ranger’s WH has 35 sec CD…
5- cant’ find equivalent that can stun an almost unlimited amout of people… given it’s strenght, 40 sec seems ok…

Earth:
1-sure physical projectile on AA… (or tooltip off?)
2- Explosion and 6 stacks of bleeding for 12 seconds. Rangers explosion has 35 sec CD, it can put 3 stacks bleeding for 5 seconds every 25 sec (spike trap)…. or apply bleeding with 5 attacks (sharpening stone; 45 sec CD)
3- 5 sec projectile reflections every 30 sec; rangers have 5 secs projectile blocks every 25 seconds, with 4 sec retaliation… Ele can do other things; rangers can’t. so pretty equivalent…
4 – 3 sec wall every 30 seconds… ranger’s don’t have suck blocks, but gardians’ staff wall blocks 5 seconds every 40 seconds on same range…
5 – rangers closest would be muddy terrain, 2 sec immob and 2 sec cripple ( no damage) on 25 sec CD, while ele is 30 sec for 2 sec immob and damage.

So, overall, I do not feel like ele’s CD are so much over the top, compared with (at least one of) the other professions.

A 30 sec CD fo 3 sec of stabylity is basically the same as a 50 sec CD for 5 sec of stability… just that the guy with the 50 sec CD has to be more strategic in when he/she places his/her stability…

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

why do elementalist have 20 weapon skills while everyone else (except engineer) have 10 weapon skills?

Because cool downs.

The question still remains, why do eles have access to only 2 sigils?

Hitman.5829:

The question still remains, why do eles have access to only 2 sigils?

They technically do have access to 4 sigils, it’s just that you’re forced into using two copies of the same sigils. You can imagine the elementalist as having two weapon sets that are simply exactly the same, and you swap the sets on each attunement swap.

Eles can’t work with 4 sigils because they only equip one weapon. Having four sigil effects on a single weapon would be insanely overpowered, and there’s no mechanism to activate/deactivate sigils that does not involve a weapon swap.

Theoretically, they could make it so that you can slot sigils for each attunement, but I wouldn’t expect such a thing to ever exist in game.

This does mean that elementalists suffer from having less possible variety, but they are not actually losing value by only having two sigil slots. It’s basically the same as a different profession that slots the same two sigils in both of their weapon sets. It’s not like the elementalist is being shortchanged in not receiving sigil bonuses, it’s just that they have less control over what sigil bonuses they receive.

The only place where it is really unfair is when it comes to stacking sigils. Stacking sigils provide bonuses to both weapon sets while only needing to be slotted into one weapon set. This means that profession with two weapon sets will generally use one set to build the stacks, and not put that same sigil in the other weapon set.

However, elementalists cannot do this, and thus do lose value when using stacking sigils. They must always have this sigil on their “theoretical” weapon sets, even when it is posing no benefit. In contrast, a different profession (i.e. thief) can essentially benefit from 3 sigils at a time on a given weapon set if they use the other weapon set to stack sigils. For intsance, a d/d thief can use a shortbow to build bloodlust stacks, then benefit from a sigil of force, air, and bloodlust on their daggers. An elementalist will only ever benefit from two sigils at any given time since they are locked into using one weapon.

Engineers are in the same boat since they only have one weapon. If it weren’t for the unfairness in regards to stacking sigils, I’d say that things were perfectly fine as is. The only way they could really make it “fairer” is to give elementalists and engineers a second weapon set, which would require major changes to both professions.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

why do elementalist have 20 weapon skills while everyone else (except engineer) have 10 weapon skills?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

oh, i thought cleansing ire is enough to handle the situation.

carrying zerker stance means i need to press another button.
i’ll rather take loss than do that.

I just saw this in your other thread, you are the last person who should complain about eles and engineers getting more skills, ie more buttons to push.

As for the thread topic, yes eles and engineers get access to less sigils but there isn’t really a way to give them the ability to use 4 sigils without making it a bit OP. It is already easier to use on swap sigils on eng and ele as we need to swap all the time to be effective anyway.

Hitman.5829:

The question still remains, why do eles have access to only 2 sigils?

And the answer to your rather silly question also remains the same.

Because they have only 1 weapon set.

The real question is why do threads pop up constantly comparing classes and omitting specific class mechanics in the post. It’s obvious why ele and engi only has 2 weapon sigils.

oZii.2864:

The real question is why do threads pop up constantly comparing classes and omitting specific class mechanics in the post. It’s obvious why ele and engi only has 2 weapon sigils.

Because it’s best to do balance by comparing abilities one against another. Didn’t you know that? This is Elder Scrolls, where abilities are freely picked from a giant pool, so each ability has to be balanced regardless of contex… oh, wait, this is a class-based game? Sorry, nevermind then. :P

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

why do elementalist have 20 weapon skills while everyone else (except engineer) have 10 weapon skills?

Necro have 15(Deathshroud). Elementalist don’t really use 3 of their auto attacks so thats 17 skills, then there are unreliable skills like shatter stone or churning earth which don’t usually land on experienced opponents who see it coming, making elementalists have around 14-16 viable skills from their weapon set. Mesmer’s have 14 different skills if you include their shatters. Guardian has 13 if you include their virtues. Engineers have a base of 14 skills if you include their tool belt, 5 additional skills if you include 1 bundle on their utility.

There is one good thing about having the same weapon set when you “weapon swap” on ele/engy though, you get weapon swap sigils to proc more often. IMO Engy and Ele should get a total of 3 sigils regardless of weapon choice.