Guild Wars 2

Anchoku.8142:

High dps at long range is not balanced unless it forces a glassy build that weakens short range damage. Rapid Fire was less objectionable when LB AA was weaker. That did not mean it was not a stupid Easy Button for bear-bow rangers. No one argues that Ranger should not be good with a long bow at long range but not every profession has reflect and not every situation allows players to detect they are being focused by a ranger.

211112311112 is not a winning strategy in PvP but it is stupid easy in WvW where no one can tell where the shots are coming from in a crowd and in PvE where lots of rangers enjoy screwing with group or ally dps by using Point Blank when it is totally unnecessary just because it is off CD.

Long Bow should not be weak but one principle of this game is that higher risk is rewarded by higher dps and combat range is one of the core risk factors because most professions only receive good dps using short range weapons. Spamming auto-attack between RF’s short CD period is just too easy in a lot of situations to deserve a dps boost. Personally, I think it was OP before September but the lower AA damage from Long Range Shot helped decrease dps enough to give more counterplay. Other professions could also use either more personal risk or less dps in their ranged meta builds.

How does Increaseing the damage from skill A , Effect its Dps its not attacking any faster.

all you have done is listed your opions, no one has so far proved anything to prove The longbow changes were too much , record a pvp video of you fighting one of these Rangers, soon you’ll learn there is no dealing with the chaos that is WvW.

and Poor use of Pointblank shot don’t give you any reason to Slat the class.

oh ya Ranger isn’t the only one Shooting Bolts,arrows,fireballs into Zergs every ranged Class does this Even LB Warroirs!.

Decrease dps? no just less damage they never changed the LB’s autos attack speeds, please use Dps and damage terms correctly.

at shorter range less damage pre-patch just gave Melee combat even more of a Advantage that they already have at close range.

and if you think it was Op before the patch , im laughing it was just Functional, even when fully traited, and a weapon should not be Based around its Traits or a full zerker set, If you don’t Include these influences in your opion it is much more balanced now than you might think .

and also where did anet ever say higher risk is rewarded by higher damage, thats what caused this Zerker meta in the first place because it was all too easy to over power Defences, and now its range vs zerkers (with pretty much no long term defence)
its time to get out of the hole and build some Toughness stop Relying on zerker stats to do the work for you.

All the burst in this game needs toned down. So when they tone down teef and all the rest than they can tone down RF.

Just no and hell F no. Rapid fire isn’t op. No rangers should not discuss how we could nerf it.

Anet has taken along time to give this class a real buff after 2 years. I have faith that they are not completely out of touch. To nerf rangers anytime in the next 6 months would just prove they are clueless.

Class are not one skill or even eight. They are the some of its parts. It how it mitigates or absorbs damage. Active and passive defense and offense. Its whether is primary weapon set are melee or aoe.

Talking about an aoe melee skill vs a primarily single range skill is ridiculous. Rapid fire damage is made of multiple projectiles it has an animation.

Those of you who keep bandwagoning on the newest perceive op class will never be really any good.

If you fail to adapt you will die. Just as all the ranger youngling who have failed to adapt. The Ranger core is strong because all the weak have been culled. Right now there are so many bad ranger because they have not be tried and tested. It is possible for a good GC ranger 1 vs 3 bad rapid fire ranger. If this spec is so op that shouldn’t happen.

With all range attack there is a possibility to have it reflected back at you unlike melee.
PVE’er now the power of reflect against range bosses. It one of the ways people get great times against Arah dungeon bosses. Seems Pve’ers maybe understand how the game works better than some of pvp’ers

I want to see more Rangers in wvw fing stuff up. Core member know it possible to get 4-5k on aa. 5 or 10 Ranger working together. I can dream cant I (a lot of ranger roam solo).

That much damage at that speed and at that range is broken.

No one has a problem with rangers doing 13k damage in 1-2 seconds, but doing that much damage from 1.5k plus range is bad for the game.

I’m amused by the rangers who are defending this tooth and nail though. I’ll be even more amused when the “adjustment” comes

Some videos showcasing the problem.

These video don’t really prove anything. Ranger have always been able to do that. Its just a tad faster now. This just prove a ranger can gank as well as a thief.

You can’t balance a game around bad players. What was broken was the dodge key on just about everyone of them. This is a compilation video highlight his easiest kills.

What about a hard battle won. There is a place for video like this but in a discussion about whether this skill or skills are op is not one of them.

All of his kills were not long range kill.

Range damage has more counters than melee, yet not a single one was used.
Using footage like this as proof for why it should be nerf, just shows how unskilled the players are that are pushing for the nerf.

Those of you complaining simply need to step your game up or present a ranger laying waste to a decent group of players.

First off, who are you to say that its bad for the game. The reason they buffed the longbow was to make ranged combat viable, which was non existent for the last 2 years. To top it all off its sounds as if there is absolutely nothing you can do against a LB ranger, which could not be further from the truth.

They are not OP in PvP.
They are not OP in organized zerg WvW warfare.
They are not even the highest DPS in PvE.
And finally, they only mater in small scale roaming.

LB Ranger is one of the easier specs to overcome because it has a clear weakness. And the builds role is to snipe people who build berserker on light/medium classes and are distracted by something else.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

These video don’t really prove anything. Ranger have always been able to do that. Its just a tad faster now. This just prove a ranger can gank as well as a thief.

actually they do a great job at highlighting the damage/speed/range issue with RF. Also your tad faster is a that ranger stomping before the haste wears off…

You can’t balance a game around bad players. What was broken was the dodge key on just about everyone of them. This is a compilation video highlight his easiest kills.

actually they have repeatedly done exactly this

What about a hard battle won. There is a place for video like this but in a discussion about whether this skill or skills are op is not one of them.

this is the perfect place because it show cases the issues with it

All of his kills were not long range kill.

thank you for proving my point that LB rangers never needed this

Range damage has more counters than melee, yet not a single one was used.
Using footage like this as proof for why it should be nerf, just shows how unskilled the players are that are pushing for the nerf.

you didn’t watch all 4 huh?

Those of you complaining simply need to step your game up or present a ranger laying waste to a decent group of players.

so because you can’t kill 5 great players at once RF is balanced?? Great logic mate

T raw.4658:

That much damage at that speed and at that range is broken.

No one has a problem with rangers doing 13k damage in 1-2 seconds, but doing that much damage from 1.5k plus range is bad for the game.

I’m amused by the rangers who are defending this tooth and nail though. I’ll be even more amused when the “adjustment” comes

<Edit>

Some videos showcasing the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzC3FnWXIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc6LZTwamPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD1BZlyE_s8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofVCaXErQo

lol, just watched all the videos youre citing…

1st video:
some full glass ranger blowing all 3 utility cds every single clip just to kill:
a zerk warrior, zerk eles, and uplevel rangers. i hope you realize that many of those fights were sped up and all of those fights were glass against glass which is always ridiculous (the only exception being the engineer, who struggled because he relied on bombkit, but ultimately wouldve won if not for the ranger getting rescued).

2nd video:
same, but he begins to incorperate fury

3rd video:
same, but with signet and pet might stacking.

4th:
same, but now with more help from allies.

tl;dr: videos of cherry picked fights where glass players get the jump on other glass players and blow them up are not representative of anything except those cherry picked situations. had the roles been reversed, and any of the players gotten the jump on him, he wouldve died (exceptions made for the murdered uplevels and the thief with no stability who attacked him on a cliff edge).

Chokolata.1870:

First off, who are you to say that its bad for the game. The reason they buffed the longbow was to make ranged combat viable, which was non existent for the last 2 years. To top it all off its sounds as if there is absolutely nothing you can do against a LB ranger, which could not be further from the truth.

They are not OP in PvP.
anet nerfs based just not on tPvP

They are not OP in organized zerg WvW warfare.
this is where LB rangers shine

They are not even the highest DPS in PvE.
they don’t nerf based on pve only

And finally, they only mater in small scale roaming.
no

LB Ranger is one of the easier specs to overcome because it has a clear weakness. And the builds role is to snipe people who build berserker on light/medium classes and are distracted by something else.
obviously you didn’t watch videos…he blew up warriors/guardians

T raw.4658:

obviously you didn’t watch videos…he blew up warriors/guardians

[/quote]
What class can’t do that to glass warriors and guardians if they get the drop on them?
You can find these highly edited videos that only show wins for every single profession.

Raven.9603:

T raw.4658:

That much damage at that speed and at that range is broken.

No one has a problem with rangers doing 13k damage in 1-2 seconds, but doing that much damage from 1.5k plus range is bad for the game.

I’m amused by the rangers who are defending this tooth and nail though. I’ll be even more amused when the “adjustment” comes

<Edit>

Some videos showcasing the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzC3FnWXIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc6LZTwamPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD1BZlyE_s8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofVCaXErQo

lol, just watched all the videos youre citing…

1st video:
some full glass ranger blowing all 3 utility cds every single clip just to kill:
a zerk warrior, zerk eles, and uplevel rangers. i hope you realize that many of those fights were sped up and all of those fights were glass against glass which is always ridiculous (the only exception being the engineer, who struggled because he relied on bombkit, but ultimately wouldve won if not for the ranger getting rescued).

2nd video:
same, but he begins to incorperate fury

3rd video:
same, but with signet and pet might stacking.

4th:
same, but now with more help from allies.

tl;dr: videos of cherry picked fights where glass players get the jump on other glass players and blow them up are not representative of anything except those cherry picked situations. had the roles been reversed, and any of the players gotten the jump on him, he wouldve died (exceptions made for the murdered uplevels and the thief with no stability who attacked him on a cliff edge).

Yet you’ve missed the point entirely.

That damage at that range and that fast is the problem….we’re not even delving into the ease at which this is done.

So reward those videos with that in mind (also lulz to the sped up fights comments) then come back

Raven.9603:

T raw.4658:

That much damage at that speed and at that range is broken.

No one has a problem with rangers doing 13k damage in 1-2 seconds, but doing that much damage from 1.5k plus range is bad for the game.

I’m amused by the rangers who are defending this tooth and nail though. I’ll be even more amused when the “adjustment” comes

<Edit>

Some videos showcasing the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzC3FnWXIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc6LZTwamPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD1BZlyE_s8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofVCaXErQo

lol, just watched all the videos youre citing…

1st video:
some full glass ranger blowing all 3 utility cds every single clip just to kill:
a zerk warrior, zerk eles, and uplevel rangers. i hope you realize that many of those fights were sped up and all of those fights were glass against glass which is always ridiculous (the only exception being the engineer, who struggled because he relied on bombkit, but ultimately wouldve won if not for the ranger getting rescued).

2nd video:
same, but he begins to incorperate fury

3rd video:
same, but with signet and pet might stacking.

4th:
same, but now with more help from allies.

tl;dr: videos of cherry picked fights where glass players get the jump on other glass players and blow them up are not representative of anything except those cherry picked situations. had the roles been reversed, and any of the players gotten the jump on him, he wouldve died (exceptions made for the murdered uplevels and the thief with no stability who attacked him on a cliff edge).

Yet you’ve missed the point entirely.

That damage at that range and that fast is the problem….we’re not even delving into the ease at which this is done.

So reward those videos with that in mind (also lulz to the sped up fights comments) then come back

For all you warriors complaining
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAp8umUJSXIEALQQH4xBVBB-TFBQgAcK/AU/JZ/hVlgkCQPhRA-w
That is about 17 seconds, not counting dodges, where a longbow can not hurt you. In fact the majority of it is either reflecting the shots or healing you.

T raw.4658:

That much damage at that speed and at that range is broken.

No one has a problem with rangers doing 13k damage in 1-2 seconds, but doing that much damage from 1.5k plus range is bad for the game.

I’m amused by the rangers who are defending this tooth and nail though. I’ll be even more amused when the “adjustment” comes

<Edit>

Some videos showcasing the problem.

Rangers defending this tooth and nail? I think it is you who is desperate here. Keep repeating your mantra like a kittening slogen so much you believe it too. Did you think about what circumstances were actually required to make those videos? Do you think these are normal situations? If you are so sure about the adjustments coming to RF, why waste your time trying to convince people about it being broken? The only reason I can think of is you being a hater and just trying to wish bad things for rangers because of some silly videos on youtube. Please stop trying to act like you’re the champion of people defending their lives, it is getting pathetic.

T raw.4658:

That much damage at that speed and at that range is broken.

No one has a problem with rangers doing 13k damage in 1-2 seconds, but doing that much damage from 1.5k plus range is bad for the game.

I’m amused by the rangers who are defending this tooth and nail though. I’ll be even more amused when the “adjustment” comes

<Edit>

Some videos showcasing the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzC3FnWXIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc6LZTwamPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD1BZlyE_s8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofVCaXErQo

I lol’d…a thief main complaining that somebody else can do damage equal to backstab from far range, and while burning through almost all utilities. Thief can do that damage from close range without burning through utilities, and pull it off over and over faster than a Ranger can, and with more odds of success.

So tell me…how does this move equal OP when compared to other burst moves that are 1 shot? Because with the existence of thieves and warriors doing close/long range ganks all the time respectfully, another class being able to do it while having most of said burst dodged or thrown back directly into their face is not anywhere near OP in this game.

T raw.4658:

Raven.9603:

T raw.4658:

That much damage at that speed and at that range is broken.

No one has a problem with rangers doing 13k damage in 1-2 seconds, but doing that much damage from 1.5k plus range is bad for the game.

I’m amused by the rangers who are defending this tooth and nail though. I’ll be even more amused when the “adjustment” comes

<Edit>

Some videos showcasing the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzC3FnWXIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc6LZTwamPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD1BZlyE_s8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofVCaXErQo

lol, just watched all the videos youre citing…

1st video:
some full glass ranger blowing all 3 utility cds every single clip just to kill:
a zerk warrior, zerk eles, and uplevel rangers. i hope you realize that many of those fights were sped up and all of those fights were glass against glass which is always ridiculous (the only exception being the engineer, who struggled because he relied on bombkit, but ultimately wouldve won if not for the ranger getting rescued).

2nd video:
same, but he begins to incorperate fury

3rd video:
same, but with signet and pet might stacking.

4th:
same, but now with more help from allies.

tl;dr: videos of cherry picked fights where glass players get the jump on other glass players and blow them up are not representative of anything except those cherry picked situations. had the roles been reversed, and any of the players gotten the jump on him, he wouldve died (exceptions made for the murdered uplevels and the thief with no stability who attacked him on a cliff edge).

Yet you’ve missed the point entirely.

That damage at that range and that fast is the problem….we’re not even delving into the ease at which this is done.

So reward those videos with that in mind (also lulz to the sped up fights comments) then come back

Can we delve into the ease that a person can tap dodge twice, avoid the entire rapid fire, and then proceed to obliterate the glass ranger? Or would that level of basic thinking destroy your false narrative?

Also, -50 points for show casing cherry picked WvW videos to try and claim something is OP. Anet, and pretty much everyone else, stopped giving a crap about roaming WvW balance when Dire gear became a thing.

@T Raw: You seem to be dismissing everything people say that does not fit in your limited point of view that is heavily influenced by your inability to fight a certain build to grasp the concept of builds advantages and disadvantages.

The only time a Ranger shines is when you are flanked while engaging someone else. It is not a 1v1 spec in the sense that it has no sustain, no durability and extremely weak condition removal and stun breaks. Its intended role is to quickly turn a 1v1 into a 2v1 by doing so from range instead of from stealth, like the thief does.

There, in fact, exist builds that are direct counters to the ranger, such as: S/D thief, Meditation guardian, Eviscerate warrior(especially if traited for reflection) which have extremely selfish short CD counter to bursts, be it blocks, reflects, heals, evades, blinks, rushes or blinds. To top it all off, you have your regular dodges if your CDs are on, which they should not be if you are a competent enough player.

There also exist direct counters with longer CDs because they are party wide in the sense that its an AoE reflect wall, AoE protection, AoE heal. There is also a plethora of pushes, pulls, knockdowns, stuns and dazes both range and melee to counter the positioning advantage the ranger has.

Furthermore, all of the meta builds have innate counters.
-The engineer has a ranged stun, reflect, block and pull in his core build (tool kit and shield) and a lot of sustain.
-The DD elementalist has protection, many rushes, a blink and extraordinary healing. —-The guardian bunker is a support and point holder, not a fighter, and it can tank a point for minutes on end vs a Ranger, and many a time it can tank 2v1 for more then 30s which is enough for help to arrive. The Medi guardian is a direct counter.

And you are ignoring all of this because you think that in the case of an inherently imbalanced game mode (which is WvW), where we can see P/D thieves trolling 10 players, D/D might stacking elementalists face taking 3 people, perplexity runes, ascended gear, food and lord buffs, that in a very specific situation, which is a 2v1, IF cougth with your CDs on, you will die to a Rapid Fire. Simply WOW.

To simply put it for future reference to all of you people who refuse to accept reason:
-Ranged combat was irrelevant, now it exists
-You are supposed to spec for anti ranged unless your build, which is usually meta, has enough tools to fight it
-Ranged specs are, by default, not 1v1 builds and you usually need an anchor, i.e. a tank.
-Ranger is not, in fact, good in organized zerg play as you are a rally bot.
-LB Ranger specifically depends on the opponent, if the opponent is bad the spec is super easy to play, if the opponent is good it gets extremely difficult to play as your window for bursting is extremely small and sometimes non existent

Conclusion: L2P!!!

Chokolata.1870:

@T Raw: You seem to be dismissing everything people say that does not fit in your limited point of view that is heavily influenced by your inability to fight a certain build to grasp the concept of builds advantages and disadvantages.

The only time a Ranger shines is when you are flanked while engaging someone else. It is not a 1v1 spec in the sense that it has no sustain, no durability and extremely weak condition removal and stun breaks. Its intended role is to quickly turn a 1v1 into a 2v1 by doing so from range instead of from stealth, like the thief does.

There, in fact, exist builds that are direct counters to the ranger, such as: S/D thief, Meditation guardian, Eviscerate warrior(especially if traited for reflection) which have extremely selfish short CD counter to bursts, be it blocks, reflects, heals, evades, blinks, rushes or blinds. To top it all off, you have your regular dodges if your CDs are on, which they should not be if you are a competent enough player.

There also exist direct counters with longer CDs because they are party wide in the sense that its an AoE reflect wall, AoE protection, AoE heal. There is also a plethora of pushes, pulls, knockdowns, stuns and dazes both range and melee to counter the positioning advantage the ranger has.

Furthermore, all of the meta builds have innate counters.
-The engineer has a ranged stun, reflect, block and pull in his core build (tool kit and shield) and a lot of sustain.
-The DD elementalist has protection, many rushes, a blink and extraordinary healing. —-The guardian bunker is a support and point holder, not a fighter, and it can tank a point for minutes on end vs a Ranger, and many a time it can tank 2v1 for more then 30s which is enough for help to arrive. The Medi guardian is a direct counter.

Even Ranger Vs ranger is a counter , if the ranger has Eagle eye, the Non eagle eye ranger will have to close the gap Also.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Chokolata.1870:

@T Raw: You seem to be dismissing everything people say that does not fit in your limited point of view that is heavily influenced by your inability to fight a certain build to grasp the concept of builds advantages and disadvantages.

The only time a Ranger shines is when you are flanked while engaging someone else. It is not a 1v1 spec in the sense that it has no sustain, no durability and extremely weak condition removal and stun breaks. Its intended role is to quickly turn a 1v1 into a 2v1 by doing so from range instead of from stealth, like the thief does.

There, in fact, exist builds that are direct counters to the ranger, such as: S/D thief, Meditation guardian, Eviscerate warrior(especially if traited for reflection) which have extremely selfish short CD counter to bursts, be it blocks, reflects, heals, evades, blinks, rushes or blinds. To top it all off, you have your regular dodges if your CDs are on, which they should not be if you are a competent enough player.

There also exist direct counters with longer CDs because they are party wide in the sense that its an AoE reflect wall, AoE protection, AoE heal. There is also a plethora of pushes, pulls, knockdowns, stuns and dazes both range and melee to counter the positioning advantage the ranger has.

Furthermore, all of the meta builds have innate counters.
-The engineer has a ranged stun, reflect, block and pull in his core build (tool kit and shield) and a lot of sustain.
-The DD elementalist has protection, many rushes, a blink and extraordinary healing. —-The guardian bunker is a support and point holder, not a fighter, and it can tank a point for minutes on end vs a Ranger, and many a time it can tank 2v1 for more then 30s which is enough for help to arrive. The Medi guardian is a direct counter.

Even Ranger Vs ranger is a counter , if the ranger has Eagle eye, the Non eagle eye ranger will have to close the gap Also.

Pretty much the only weapon on the ranger kit that doesn’t have a direct counter to RF is axe mainhand but people only ever use that on regen/BM bunkers anyway.

Yes, I did not specifically list other counters as I thought that I got my point across very precisely. There are 8 classes in total so it would take a lot of space and time, because some people clearly need to be spoon fed information about the game.

Also some builds that have innate defenses would be: Fresh Air Elementalist, PU Mesmer, Fearmancer, Staff elementalist, Hambow, CondiWar. Did I forget anything??

The LB Power Ranger is supposed to have an advantage and put ranged pressure on: Power Necro, Shatter Mesmer, Glass Staff Ele and Glass D/X thief. All of the classes have at least a way to run/stall to/for help or have a huge advantage in close quarters combat.

Forgive me if I missed anything.

Chokolata.1870:

Yes, I did not specifically list other counters as I thought that I got my point across very precisely. There are 8 classes in total so it would take a lot of space and time, because some people clearly need to be spoon fed information about the game.

Oh they wouldn’t listen even if you did.

@Chokolata: Don’t mind T Raw, he thinks D/P stealth spam isn’t OP or needs fixing all the time on the thief subforums…if that tells you everything you need to know. If it doesn’t, it means he’s a D/P stealth spamming thief who is QQing because he can now be countered easily by Rangers…or at least that’s the impression I get from the fact that he refuses to have anything done with the D/P stealth spam (which is where most of the stealth complaints come from).

tl;dr version: He’s a thief QQing that RF is countering his glass build.

Ranger Defense Team has been busy!

1st my thief has maybe 200 hrs on him. Hardly what I’d call a main Y ’ know

2nd rangers need to lose 1-1.5 of the attributes I list. IMHO we should revert the speed of it. Honestly it’s open for discussion though

3rd random vomiting of untrue things about myself to cover your individual subpar skill level needs to stop. If you want easy mode kills then let’s find you a new game. Real players want challenging fights that are balanced/free of cheese.

There so hop on board the balance train and let’s give these dev’s some ideas!!

Jim Hunter.6821:

Because it is face roll easy to build a bar. I have a warrior that I leveled to 80 in WvW. They are ridiculously easy to play effectively.

I am not denying that it was (or is ) easy to build adrenaline.

That being said, building a bar is still more difficult than “perch and press 1 button.”

Further, building that bar and using it also affected consistent dps, healing, burst damage, conditions, and several other things, but it was still considered too easy to maintain and received a nerf. The Damage wasnt touched on bursts this last go round (the gs abomination excluded), which draws attention to the state of the mechanic as being too forgiving.

If we’re arguing on ease of effectiveness (as Anet seems to be listening to these arguments) I am quick to point out that an 8 second CD, 1500 range moderate-to significant damaging attack is incredibly easy to perform and be effective with.

And if your counterargument is that Rangers are full glass to deal damage you deem significant, I’d like to note two things; a ranger savvy enough to spec for max damage at range at the cost of armor is likely going to position himself to not allow you to get to him with much of your HP intact.

While there is some skill that comes into finding and getting to these positions, after that the skill floor sinks abysmally low. While Rangers do need a buff, the current one is too little risk for the reward it brings, especially given that the skill ceiling was high enough before to let them wreck face with GS if they so chose.

buff needed. Lazy play not.

Because Warriors were nerfed X times over Y months/years is not justification for why Ranger’s should be nerfed.

We’ve already shown the damage is only 15% more than volley.

We’ve already shown that the cooldown and channel time are the same as volley.

We’ve already shown that the benefits of brutal shot are 5% better than the vuln on Rapid Fire.

Now while the longbow is undeniably a better weapon than rifle is overall, the Warrior class is still significantly better than Rangers. They’re still in the meta, they’re still a mainstay in GvGs, and are quite numerous in WvW. Rangers on the other hand haven’t broken into the meta (according to the PvP forums), are still unwelcome in organized group play in WvW, and are not providing much real benefit to the zerg just like pre-patch.

From all we’ve seen, despite these changes, Rangers don’t appear to be much better off than they were before and the game has moved on without them. Again.

Is there anything else we need to discuss?

Atherakhia.4086:

Because Warriors were nerfed X times over Y months/years is not justification for why Ranger’s should be nerfed.

We’ve already shown the damage is only 15% more than volley.

We’ve already shown that the cooldown and channel time are the same as volley.

We’ve already shown that the benefits of brutal shot are 5% better than the vuln on Rapid Fire.

Now while the longbow is undeniably a better weapon than rifle is overall, the Warrior class is still significantly better than Rangers. They’re still in the meta, they’re still a mainstay in GvGs, and are quite numerous in WvW. Rangers on the other hand haven’t broken into the meta (according to the PvP forums), are still unwelcome in organized group play in WvW, and are not providing much real benefit to the zerg just like pre-patch.

From all we’ve seen, despite these changes, Rangers don’t appear to be much better off than they were before and the game has moved on without them. Again.

Is there anything else we need to discuss?

i do want to make a fair point against your warrior rifle argument:
Who in their right mind would bring a rifle warrior to any organized GvG or ZvZ?

You will quickly find that as things stand, Rifle Warrior is about as viable in any organized play as LB ranger is due to them BOTH having to face the same “hardcounters”. They both got the same kind of tools to mitigate damage, perhaps warrior can do this job at mitigating slightly better if using the correct second weapon set, but other then that, they are in the very same boat. While warrior is massive one shot burst, ranger is a “sustained burst” through rapid fire and LRS.

And to answer the question i asked you- Rifle warrior will NEVER be meta. It is just like LB ranger. A one trick pony that troll bad players and gets rekt by decent ones. Just like LB ranger it provides next to nothing that benefits a team, because it NEEDS to heavily invest into certain traitlines to even make the rifle and its burst remotely useful, just like LB ranger.

So, comparing Rifle to Longbow is pointless. Longbow is simply better and even then it’s still not meta.

Oh absolutely! But you know what the warrior can still do? Put a hammer in their other hand. Ranger not so much.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

While there is some skill that comes into finding and getting to these positions, after that the skill floor sinks abysmally low. While Rangers do need a buff, the current one is too little risk for the reward it brings, especially given that the skill ceiling was high enough before to let them wreck face with GS if they so chose.

buff needed. Lazy play not.

Dodge and keep going on about your business then. If a ranger is posting up and “perching” in some sniping style location, they are basically being useless in my opinion.

Prysin.8542:

So, comparing Rifle to Longbow is pointless. Longbow is simply better and even then it’s still not meta.

I can agree that the warrior rifle could use some mechanically beneficial changes, who care what is or is not meta? Most of my builds i play are by no means meta. It is always fun knowing as I am running away from there corpse, that they are wondering what just happened. Players learn to adapt and counter what is meta. Not to mention meta doesn’t always mean “good”. In my experience, more often then not, it is a sign of lack of originality, and following like sheep. In my opinion, a player should be playing in a way that is fun for them, regardless of the “meta”, and secondly, take chances to diverse and try different things to lead and create the new meta, instead of lagging behind and following the old or current meta.

T raw.4658:

Ranger Defense Team has been busy!

1st my thief has maybe 200 hrs on him. Hardly what I’d call a main Y ’ know

2nd rangers need to lose 1-1.5 of the attributes I list. IMHO we should revert the speed of it. Honestly it’s open for discussion though

3rd random vomiting of untrue things about myself to cover your individual subpar skill level needs to stop. If you want easy mode kills then let’s find you a new game. Real players want challenging fights that are balanced/free of cheese.

There so hop on board the balance train and let’s give these dev’s some ideas!!

revert back to the speed and longbow becomes a 1111 weapon because RF dps would be lower than auto attk. pls think before u give dumb kitten suggestions like that.

if you want easy mode walking free bags who has the lowest kill stats in the game you are the one who should find a new game. pls learn and realize that the free bag has a potential to kill you back now, it is still an easy kill though.

niconori.7235:

revert back to the speed and longbow becomes a 1111 weapon because RF dps would be lower than auto attk. pls think before u give dumb kitten suggestions like that.

Well, ranger LB auto attack is actually extremely good and probably too good after all the buffs. After the patch it does decent damage even at 0-500 range (plus you can always knock back the opponent to increase the range). Ranger LB has the highest damage multiplier of any ranged auto attack in the game and with eagle eye also the longest realistic range. Ranger LB does about 0.9x dmg multiplier at 1000+ range, and even at 500-1000 range beating pretty much any other ranged auto attack in the game. Now several traits (steady focus, opening strike, precise strike, read the wind) plus using the signets can easily push the total damage to extremely high levels.

I am NOT saying that ranger is overpowered. It suffers from similar weaknesses that the engineer has. Both are susceptible to focus fire (several blocks, evades and signet of stone helps), hard CC and conditions, especially immobilize + the pet is very difficult to keep alive in AoE heavy situations (zerg fights + some dungeons). But ranger is far easier to play than engineer. Thus in pve and WvWvW you will encounter nowadays much more rangers than engineers. Majority of players always steer for the easiest options and least effort. Warrior has long time been that professions and I wouldn’t be surprised if some players whose main was a warrior now play a ranger.

Note: I have in recent times played more on my ranger than any other profession and I will be crafting full ascended armor (got ascended weapons + trinkets already) for my ranger tomorrow. Still despite these 800+ gold investments, I feel the combination of the September patch changes, giving all the nice signet things (GM trait) for free + the weapon changes pushed things a bit too far, not much, but by a tiny notch.

So what I’m seeing is this:

Based on my highly anecdotal and extremely biased experience, I think a skill or weapon is overpowered, and because I state my opinion with stronger language and believe in it more strongly than I believe in any sort of factual or counter anecdotal arguments that don’t agree with mine, I believe the game developers should listen to my highly biased opinion about balance and balance the game just for me.

It couldn’t possibly be that I need to learn to play or adjust my skill level to compensate with a new element that previously did not exist within the game (purely in potency per time frame). That’s absurd. Clearly, anything that I can’t facetank and win against is OP.

Deniara Devious.3948:

I am NOT saying that ranger is overpowered. It suffers from similar weaknesses that the engineer has. Both are susceptible to focus fire (several blocks, evades and signet of stone helps), hard CC and conditions, especially immobilize + the pet is very difficult to keep alive in AoE heavy situations (zerg fights + some dungeons). But ranger is far easier to play than engineer. Thus in pve and WvWvW you will encounter nowadays much more rangers than engineers. Majority of players always steer for the easiest options and least effort. Warrior has long time been that professions and I wouldn’t be surprised if some players whose main was a warrior now play a ranger.

Lulwut? Longbow is still worse than both the GS and 1h sword in pve and no one cares about WvW balance and hasn’t for a very long time.

You see a lot of rangers now in WvW because now we are actually decent and not the free bags we once were when running a power build combined with people dusting off old alts to try out the changes. We SHOULD be seeing 1/8 the people in pve/wvw playing a class, anything else indicates a problem.

Omg after more than 2 week there are still people who can’t figure out how to counter a LB Ranger XD it’s too funny to be true.

sminkiottone.6972:

Omg after more than 2 week there are still people who can’t figure out how to counter a LB Ranger XD it’s too funny to be true.

I miss GW1 days when the player base was just actually good and welcomed new challenges.

jcbroe.4329:

So what I’m seeing is this:

Based on my highly anecdotal and extremely biased experience, I think a skill or weapon is overpowered, and because I state my opinion with stronger language and believe in it more strongly than I believe in any sort of factual or counter anecdotal arguments that don’t agree with mine, I believe the game developers should listen to my highly biased opinion about balance and balance the game just for me.

It couldn’t possibly be that I need to learn to play or adjust my skill level to compensate with a new element that previously did not exist within the game (purely in potency per time frame). That’s absurd. Clearly, anything that I can’t facetank and win against is OP.

If you only knew how true your statement was. Not ‘true’ in how much it makes sense (because obviously it makes very little), but true in the sense that it actually happens and is acted on for the sake of balance.

Substance E.4852:

sminkiottone.6972:

Omg after more than 2 week there are still people who can’t figure out how to counter a LB Ranger XD it’s too funny to be true.

I miss GW1 days when the player base was just actually good and welcomed new challenges.

That player mentality is dead.

RyuDragnier.9476:

T raw.4658:

That much damage at that speed and at that range is broken.

No one has a problem with rangers doing 13k damage in 1-2 seconds, but doing that much damage from 1.5k plus range is bad for the game.

I’m amused by the rangers who are defending this tooth and nail though. I’ll be even more amused when the “adjustment” comes

<Edit>

Some videos showcasing the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzC3FnWXIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc6LZTwamPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD1BZlyE_s8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofVCaXErQo

I lol’d…a thief main complaining that somebody else can do damage equal to backstab from far range, and while burning through almost all utilities. Thief can do that damage from close range without burning through utilities, and pull it off over and over faster than a Ranger can, and with more odds of success.

So tell me…how does this move equal OP when compared to other burst moves that are 1 shot? Because with the existence of thieves and warriors doing close/long range ganks all the time respectfully, another class being able to do it while having most of said burst dodged or thrown back directly into their face is not anywhere near OP in this game.

u routinely backstab guardians for 13k? Signet burst build?

also, backstab should do more damage than rapid fire, not less. Not saying they should nerf RF, but if they don’t they gotta buff backstab by about 6k. Its one or the other

RyuDragnier.9476:

T raw.4658:

That much damage at that speed and at that range is broken.

No one has a problem with rangers doing 13k damage in 1-2 seconds, but doing that much damage from 1.5k plus range is bad for the game.

I’m amused by the rangers who are defending this tooth and nail though. I’ll be even more amused when the “adjustment” comes

<Edit>

Some videos showcasing the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzC3FnWXIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc6LZTwamPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD1BZlyE_s8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofVCaXErQo

I lol’d…a thief main complaining that somebody else can do damage equal to backstab from far range, and while burning through almost all utilities. Thief can do that damage from close range without burning through utilities, and pull it off over and over faster than a Ranger can, and with more odds of success.

So tell me…how does this move equal OP when compared to other burst moves that are 1 shot? Because with the existence of thieves and warriors doing close/long range ganks all the time respectfully, another class being able to do it while having most of said burst dodged or thrown back directly into their face is not anywhere near OP in this game.

u routinely backstab guardians for 13k? Signet burst build?

also, backstab should do more damage than rapid fire, not less

Substance E.4852:

sminkiottone.6972:

Omg after more than 2 week there are still people who can’t figure out how to counter a LB Ranger XD it’s too funny to be true.

I miss GW1 days when the player base was just actually good and welcomed new challenges.

Hahahah lmao, good one.
You had me thinking you were serious. Lol

In all seriousness, gw1 community was just as bad. At least when it came to class balance.
Mosts mmos are like this

BobbyT.7192:

Substance E.4852:

sminkiottone.6972:

Omg after more than 2 week there are still people who can’t figure out how to counter a LB Ranger XD it’s too funny to be true.

I miss GW1 days when the player base was just actually good and welcomed new challenges.

Hahahah lmao, good one.
You had me thinking you were serious. Lol

In all seriousness, gw1 community was just as bad. At least when it came to class balance.
Mosts mmos are like this

Most mmos are full of unskilled people who whine about the most stupid things, like complaining about LB ranger.