Guild Wars 2

Summary of steal when using the current thief build (30 0 10 0 30)

1) 1.244 dmg (usually more)
2) 2 boons stolen (priority on stability)
3) giving these boons to you and nearby allies in a radius of 240
4) grants vigor for 10 seconds
5) grants you and allies in a radius of 360 fury for around 10 sec
6) grants you and allies in a radius of 360 swiftness for around 10 sec (and 1 might stack)
7) heals you for 2.040
8) puts poison on the enemy for 13 seconds
9) dazes the target (which goes through stab because its first priority on boons removed)
10) when using the current backstab build with panic strike it afflicts weakness for 51/4 sec on the enemy
11) recharges all skills of one type (traps, venoms etc)
12) gives you 2 initiative
13) has a 900 range
14) is instacast
15) can even be casted if you cannot even port to the target currently because he is on an obstacle (effects still proc)
16) only has 21 1/2 seconds cooldown
17) ports to the target (instant gapcloser)
18) you get a skill that in most cases counters your enemy for a certain amount of time

Can you not see how this is utterly broken?
To be honest I don’t acually mind having such a thing on thief because thief requires at lot of skill to be played competetively but the problem is that even tho the thief uses a lot of trait points to improve his “steal” ability in order to improve his survivability he still deals a ridiculous amount of dmg by double procs (air-fire, fire-blood)

Solution:
1.) Add counterplay to steal (you can only predict it atm)
2.) Remove some effects of steal – or – nerf double procs but make up for the nerfs by buffing other things on classes (not thief) that rely on these procs to have sustained dmg

I do also think that passive stuff in this game needs an overwork as well (necro fear procs, engi burning, mesmer condi output) and the strength of weaponswitches with geomancy and doom on some classes

as well as relying on autoattack for dmg
mesmer – gs
ranger – shortbow
thief – autoattack
warrior – axe (except for eviscerate)
but this time i really want to discuss “steal”

also dont forget the day “pin down” got an animation – it added so much more skill to duels fighting as or against a warrior

Agreed. (ofc with “good” nerf to other OP stuff, but only on steal):

-The GM trait is simply killer.
1) keep the interrupt, but remove the CD reduction
2) put stabilty on lower priority so theres actual counterplay (larcenous → then interrupt steal)

3) and revert the LoS kittenbull, its only causing bugs and is totally unfair to land stuff though objects

Enough? too much? too little?

In the numerous list of things in which steal does, there’s 7 freakin’ traits that have absolutely zero other effects on the Thief’s abilities unless steal is landing. Serpent’s Touch, Mug, Improvisation, Kleptomaniac, Thrill of the Crime, Bountiful Theft, and Sleight of Hand.

In a build you’re describing that invests that heavily in steal, if even one steal gets predicted and countered, the Thief might as well be naked and traitless. For Thief to work in its current iteration, Steal can’t be able to be reactively ez-dodged. For new Thieves, it’s already a learning curve to ensure that 100% of steals hit – exercising patience, etc.

The only possible rework I can think of, would be to unlink some of these traits from Steal, so they are more stand alone, and don’t scale out of control when multiple steal traits are taken.

But then you have to ask if any changes to steal are really justified? In the big picture, Thief has 3 effective build options in competitive tPvP, isn’t overwhelming everything in 1v1s, and definitely does not work when the profession is stacked.

Edit: I am down with increasing the limitations of Steal though, but I don’t agree with introducing counterplay by allowing good players to rofl-dodge it. Respecting the rules of LOS would be fair.

In fact, there’s a super widely held opinion that a certain baseline of damage from procs are bad for the game – Air, Fire, Incendiary Powder, Combustive Shot. I contend that they do a good job of keeping high evasion based builds in check, who easily have all the tools to react and dodge to every single other ability.

Flumek.9043:

3) and revert the LoS kittenbull, its only causing bugs and is totally unfair to land stuff though objects

Enough? too much? too little?

Just right. At the moment, I find it very difficult to justify using on a team that don’t have teleports.

When I fight a thief on the other team, the skill of the other thief becomes immediately apparent within the first 5 seconds. Probably the most critical thing to learn as a thief is patience. Being able to land steal after dodge is one thing, but knowing cd’s and when they are up is a completely different story. For instance, stealing after a dodge when an engi has gear shield will not gaurantee you landing steal, or stealing after a dodge when the ele has mistform is another, o stealing after a dodge but only to find that the other thief has weapon swapped and sb#3ed your steal. A more advanced skill is learning animations that cannot be cancelled, and then stealing during those animations to guarantee a steal hit.

I don’t think thief is as hard as people put it, but a lot of it is just a willingness to learn and patience. Patience…did I mention that yet?

Chaith.8256:

Edit: I am down with increasing the limitations of Steal though, but I don’t agree with introducing counterplay by allowing good players to rofl-dodge it. Respecting the rules of LOS would be fair.

Basically this. It needs to have a los requirement.

Only real issue is the cooldown imo. Remove the 20% cooldown reduction on sleight of hand or the cooldown reduction associated with the trait line. Attach it to hastened replenishment if you want to keep it a trait.

If you want to change the trait line, why not make it so steal takes 1/2/3 boons if you have 2/4/6 traits and the trait that steal boons can increase this by 1 instead of stealing 2 like it does now.

That way a Thief chooses between the utility of daze or the utility of a shorter cooldown.

Yea I really agree with the OP.

I mean, I really have trouble running this for long myself – because I just cringe at the wasted (mostly) 300 condi damage.

In reality it is the strongest – but part of me just hates that.

The strongest builds should be the ones with incredible synergy.

Sensotix.4106:

Summary of steal when using the current thief build (30 0 10 0 30)

1) 1.244 dmg (usually more)
2) 2 boons stolen (priority on stability)
3) giving these boons to you and nearby allies in a radius of 240
4) grants vigor for 10 seconds
5) grants you and allies in a radius of 360 fury for around 10 sec
6) grants you and allies in a radius of 360 swiftness for around 10 sec (and 1 might stack)
7) heals you for 2.040
8) puts poison on the enemy for 13 seconds
9) dazes the target (which goes through stab because its first priority on boons removed)
10) when using the current backstab build with panic strike it afflicts weakness for 51/4 sec on the enemy
11) recharges all skills of one type (traps, venoms etc)
12) gives you 2 initiative
13) has a 900 range
14) is instacast
15) can even be casted if you cannot even port to the target currently because he is on an obstacle (effects still proc)
16) only has 21 1/2 seconds cooldown
17) ports to the target (instant gapcloser)
18) you get a skill that in most cases counters your enemy for a certain amount of time

Can you not see how this is utterly broken?

Your list appears to include the effects of numerous traits, both minor and major.
Let me shave that down for you, to just what steal does.

13) has a 900 range
14) is instacast
17) ports to the target (instant gapcloser)

Yup. That’s it. Everything else you listed is the result of a trait, and not steal itself (or in the case of point 18, highly subjective).

Your list includes the effects of 6 (out of 7) major traits and 3 out of 7 minor traits – it seems to me if the majority of your traits are dedicated to a single skill, it should be pretty strong.

1/6th of your list was accurate – that’s an awful percentage to aim for. If you can’t state your point honestly without hyperbole and misleading posting techniques(like having to break a trait down into 2-5 separate points so your list looked impressive), you don’t really have a point to make.

That’s not steal, that’s steal plus devoting most of your traits to steal.

Steal by itself is just a gap closer and gives you a skill to use.

What specific thing do you want counterplay for? Because all ports have counterplay in the form of other port skills and free roaming movement abilities such as rtl or rush.

Do you want counterplay for slight of hand, because any port skill offers that, or any stun break skill.

Do you want counterplay to the recharge? Because chill offers that.

Do you want counterplay to Poison or weakness? Because condition removal offers that.

Do you want counterplay to thrill of the crime? Because boon removal offers that.

Do you want counterplay to the mug heal? Because Poison offers that.?

Do you want counterplay to mug damage? Because damage reduction abilities offer that. Weakness, protection, 0 damage abilities, half damage abilities, etc.

As a whole steal can be countered via blinds and blocks and invulnerabilities and evades and stealth.

So while steal is strong when Traited. It does have counterplay.

You should specify what you want exactly. It seems like you are implying you want steal to have a tell, in which case thief would need changes in other areas to not be so reliant upon steal, or you lose too much viability and potentially end up like Ele pre Celestial buff.

So any changes to steal traits would have to be paired with opening other things up for thief. It means shifting the way thief is played, and slowly changing the professions play style. Otherwise when you give steal a tell, everyone knows to go dps mode on the thief until the steal tell and evade, and the thief will likely drop first 7/10 times in that scenario.

All that said, you’re talking about making changes for the sake of making changes in my opinion because ultimately thief play revolves around being in control of a situation and managing that situation until you win, as soon as you lose control you need to reset or die, steal is a big part of that, so you’d just be delegating what steal does to something else by changing it.

evilapprentice.6379:

Sensotix.4106:

Summary of steal when using the current thief build (30 0 10 0 30)

1) 1.244 dmg (usually more)
2) 2 boons stolen (priority on stability)
3) giving these boons to you and nearby allies in a radius of 240
4) grants vigor for 10 seconds
5) grants you and allies in a radius of 360 fury for around 10 sec
6) grants you and allies in a radius of 360 swiftness for around 10 sec (and 1 might stack)
7) heals you for 2.040
8) puts poison on the enemy for 13 seconds
9) dazes the target (which goes through stab because its first priority on boons removed)
10) when using the current backstab build with panic strike it afflicts weakness for 51/4 sec on the enemy
11) recharges all skills of one type (traps, venoms etc)
12) gives you 2 initiative
13) has a 900 range
14) is instacast
15) can even be casted if you cannot even port to the target currently because he is on an obstacle (effects still proc)
16) only has 21 1/2 seconds cooldown
17) ports to the target (instant gapcloser)
18) you get a skill that in most cases counters your enemy for a certain amount of time

Can you not see how this is utterly broken?

Your list appears to include the effects of numerous traits, both minor and major.
Let me shave that down for you, to just what steal does.

13) has a 900 range
14) is instacast
17) ports to the target (instant gapcloser)

Yup. That’s it. Everything else you listed is the result of a trait, and not steal itself (or in the case of point 18, highly subjective).

Your list includes the effects of 5 (out of 7) major traits and 3 out of 7 minor traits – it seems to me if the majority of your traits are dedicated to a single skill, it should be pretty strong.

If you can’t state your point honestly without hyperbole and misleading posting techniques(like having to break a trait down into 2-5 separate points so your list looked impressive and Point 10 brings up a trait that doesn’t interact with steal at all), you don’t really have a point to make.

Summary of steal when using the current thief build (30 0 10 0 30)
current meta thief build for backstab thieves being played in at least 4 teams in the top 30

Sensotix.4106:

evilapprentice.6379:

Sensotix.4106:

Summary of steal when using the current thief build (30 0 10 0 30)

1) 1.244 dmg (usually more)
2) 2 boons stolen (priority on stability)
3) giving these boons to you and nearby allies in a radius of 240
4) grants vigor for 10 seconds
5) grants you and allies in a radius of 360 fury for around 10 sec
6) grants you and allies in a radius of 360 swiftness for around 10 sec (and 1 might stack)
7) heals you for 2.040
8) puts poison on the enemy for 13 seconds
9) dazes the target (which goes through stab because its first priority on boons removed)
10) when using the current backstab build with panic strike it afflicts weakness for 51/4 sec on the enemy
11) recharges all skills of one type (traps, venoms etc)
12) gives you 2 initiative
13) has a 900 range
14) is instacast
15) can even be casted if you cannot even port to the target currently because he is on an obstacle (effects still proc)
16) only has 21 1/2 seconds cooldown
17) ports to the target (instant gapcloser)
18) you get a skill that in most cases counters your enemy for a certain amount of time

Can you not see how this is utterly broken?

Your list appears to include the effects of numerous traits, both minor and major.
Let me shave that down for you, to just what steal does.

13) has a 900 range
14) is instacast
17) ports to the target (instant gapcloser)

Yup. That’s it. Everything else you listed is the result of a trait, and not steal itself (or in the case of point 18, highly subjective).

Your list includes the effects of 5 (out of 7) major traits and 3 out of 7 minor traits – it seems to me if the majority of your traits are dedicated to a single skill, it should be pretty strong.

If you can’t state your point honestly without hyperbole and misleading posting techniques(like having to break a trait down into 2-5 separate points so your list looked impressive and Point 10 brings up a trait that doesn’t interact with steal at all), you don’t really have a point to make.

Summary of steal when using the current thief build (30 0 10 0 30)
current meta thief build for backstab thieves being played in at least 4 teams in the top 30

it seems to me if the majority of your traits are dedicated to a single skill, it should be pretty strong.

My only problems with steal are the following:

1. It is obstructed by absolutely nothing far too often.
2. It can rip Aegis, though it is not an unblockable skill.
3. It can be utilized even while you’re CCd
   • If you are hard CC’d, you should not be able to use any skill that aren’t stunbreaks. Plain and simple.

Acandis.3250:

1. It can be utilized even while you’re CCd
   • If you are hard CC’d, you should not be able to use any skill that aren’t stunbreaks. Plain and simple.

this will probably stop most of the complaint, imo.

Not too mention this tidbit. Consume Plasma

Gain all boons.

Protection 40px.png Protection: 10 s
Regeneration 40px.png Regeneration: 10 s (1300 health)
Vigor 40px.png Vigor: 10 s
Might 40px.png Might: 10 s
Fury 40px.png Fury: 10 s
Swiftness 40px.png Swiftness: 10 s
Aegis 40px.png Aegis: 10 s

Its a wonder theives hard counter Mesmers, we provide them an elite.

EDIT:

Also grants:

Stability 40px.png Stability: 3 s
Retaliation 40px.png Retaliation: 5 s

Yes steal is OP but what you want thieves to run instead of trickery? Shadow arts= garbage, acrobatics= garbage, Deadly arts= meh garbage as well in my opinion except mug. Crit strikes and trickery are the only good traitlines.

So if they nerf steal the meta build would be an old school full damage build like 5/6/0/0/3? That build wouldnt have a chance to survive in this meta in 1v1. Only ganking around like some kitten.

And S/D 2/6/0/6/0 would lack utility. I dont see what thieves can use besides from trickery……. Unless you just want the cooldown increased on steal.

Also without boon steal, D/D ele vs thief would become a one sided match up and its already hard enough to 1v1 a cele D/D ele

I agree, to many effects for an instant/Short CD.

Agree.

Problem is thief sukz without current OP steal, and it’s more due to other proffs builds being uber strong.

Another point is that steal alone is an unoriginal, boring, dull mechanic; with all dem traits at least is so OP you won’t think how badly designed steal is.

Thief shouldn’t steal? Fully traited steal shouldn’t be worth it? Put it in the nerf wish list and let your thread die. I"ll see you after months of nerfs at the thief’s funeral.

Every nerf thread somehow has Reapers Protection in it somewhere lol

it takes 12 traits ( minor ones included )to make steal as strong it is yet you feel your kittening is justified i bet …………………….people.

TheThiefMaster.3812:

it takes 12 traits ( minor ones included )to make steal as strong it is yet you feel your kittening is justified i bet …………………….people.

so, mesmer has 12 traits, but are shatters as strong as steal?
warrior has 12 traits, but are burst skills as strong as steal?

why to justify……hmmmmm…

Simon.3794:

TheThiefMaster.3812:

it takes 12 traits ( minor ones included )to make steal as strong it is yet you feel your kittening is justified i bet …………………….people.

so, mesmer has 12 traits, but are shatters as strong as steal?
warrior has 12 traits, but are burst skills as strong as steal?

why to justify……hmmmmm…

what shatter build puts 12 traits into mind wrack? and yes warrior’s burst skill when traited is pretty kitten esp with long bow.

TheThiefMaster.3812:

Simon.3794:

TheThiefMaster.3812:

it takes 12 traits ( minor ones included )to make steal as strong it is yet you feel your kittening is justified i bet …………………….people.

so, mesmer has 12 traits, but are shatters as strong as steal?
warrior has 12 traits, but are burst skills as strong as steal?

why to justify……hmmmmm…

what shatter build puts 12 traits into mind wrack? and yes warrior’s burst skill when treated is pretty kitten esp with long bow.

What, you don’t even know what traits shatter mesmer has?
u do realize what you said was basicly “what s/d build puts 12 traits in to steal?”

ok, don post anymoar plox n don’t haz kidz.

TheThiefMaster.3812:

Simon.3794:

TheThiefMaster.3812:

it takes 12 traits ( minor ones included )to make steal as strong it is yet you feel your kittening is justified i bet …………………….people.

so, mesmer has 12 traits, but are shatters as strong as steal?
warrior has 12 traits, but are burst skills as strong as steal?

why to justify……hmmmmm…

what shatter build puts 12 traits into mind wrack? and yes warrior’s burst skill when traited is pretty kitten esp with long bow.

TheThiefMaster.3812:

Simon.3794:

TheThiefMaster.3812:

it takes 12 traits ( minor ones included )to make steal as strong it is yet you feel your kittening is justified i bet …………………….people.

so, mesmer has 12 traits, but are shatters as strong as steal?
warrior has 12 traits, but are burst skills as strong as steal?

why to justify……hmmmmm…

what shatter build puts 12 traits into mind wrack? and yes warrior’s burst skill when treated is pretty kitten esp with long bow.

mesmer’s mind wrack build would never get close to “steal” but thats not what we are discussing in this thread anyways

Are you slow ? my guess is yes i asked you to name a build that dedicates 12 traits to any of the shatter skills as in F1 F2 F3 and F4.

BTW you are the one who brought up the mesmer comparison not i.

S/D thieves still invest 8 traits into steal alone. thats a lot of traits for 1 F skill don’t you think ? it sure has as hell should be worth it with that much investment.

Don’t bother explaining logic to OP I’m just calm knowing he is not part of the balance team.

TheThiefMaster.3812:

Simon.3794:

TheThiefMaster.3812:

it takes 12 traits ( minor ones included )to make steal as strong it is yet you feel your kittening is justified i bet …………………….people.

so, mesmer has 12 traits, but are shatters as strong as steal?
warrior has 12 traits, but are burst skills as strong as steal?

why to justify……hmmmmm…

what shatter build puts 12 traits into mind wrack? and yes warrior’s burst skill when traited is pretty kitten esp with long bow.

oh and also please, don’t put any point in to discipline and play longbow, and see how big the circle will be, better wear glasses because you will be so run out of adrenaline you won’t even see the circle of the fire field.

It’s really funny, how all these thieves just kitten…and really, they don’t even know about other classes, like hell, they don’t care, yet they claim to know everything about balance…

that’s what i call, insanity.

Simon.3794:

TheThiefMaster.3812:

it takes 12 traits ( minor ones included )to make steal as strong it is yet you feel your kittening is justified i bet …………………….people.

so, mesmer has 12 traits, but are shatters as strong as steal?
warrior has 12 traits, but are burst skills as strong as steal?

why to justify……hmmmmm…

Mesmer shatters:
1 – deals high dmg
2 – applies 1 stack confusion
3 – daze
4 – 5 stacks vulnerability
5 – evade all attacks for 1 sec
6 – interrupt with f3 applies 3 stacks vulnerability
7 – every shatter applies 1 stack vulnerability
8 – every shatter applies 1 stack confusion
9 – f2 grants 5 sec retaliation
10 – instant recharge all shatters at 50% hp
11 – shattering illusions grants might
12 – shattering illusions creates the shatter effect on you as well
13 – every shatter skill is aoe
14 – when midwrack/cry crits, you get vigor
15 – mindwrack deals 20% more dmg
16 – every shatter removes a boon on hit
17 – every shatter is instant cast
18 – shatter recharge reduced by 30%
19 – shatter effects get stronger for every illusion shattered
20 – can be activated from long range
.
wahh shatter too stronk wahh
.
.
Yes, your shatters are just as strong as steal. My point is.. yes u get extremely strong skills if u heavily trait into the corresponding trait lines.

I worry about anything done to fix steal will create more monsters. They started from a TERRIBLE place – this single skill has a ridiculous number of traits attached to it and every thief for quite a while now has used a bucket full of them. Change/remove access to these traits and you’re going to get upset people. This makes me think they might absorb traits into Steal and basicly give free trait points to thieves.

I’d rather kill Fire+Air and see if they can still get away with pure utility traits first and see if we need to do more afterwards. I agree Steal is stupid (hit Steal = win, miss Steal = kitten about in sbow/stealth til recharged) but I worry that they will see that its a combination of loads of traits thats the trouble and think combining them with small nerfs will be enough and instead give rise to free power buffs AND let them keep Fire+Air.

Be careful when talking about class specific f skills – they need to feel relevant and ANet need to work carefully with it.

They should fix steal already.
i mean, Shadowstep behind the enemy when using Steal its hard to land a perfect backstab you know.
and no thieves gonna steal in front of his prey, just saying.

Coulter.2315:

I worry about anything done to fix steal will create more monsters. They started from a TERRIBLE place – this single skill has a ridiculous number of traits attached to it and every thief for quite a while now has used a bucket full of them. Change/remove access to these traits and you’re going to get upset people. This makes me think they might absorb traits into Steal and basicly give free trait points to thieves.

I’d rather kill Fire+Air and see if they can still get away with pure utility traits first and see if we need to do more afterwards. I agree Steal is stupid (hit Steal = win, miss Steal = kitten about in sbow/stealth til recharged) but I worry that they will see that its a combination of loads of traits thats the trouble and think combining them with small nerfs will be enough and instead give rise to free power buffs AND let them keep Fire+Air.

Be careful when talking about class specific f skills – they need to feel relevant and ANet need to work carefully with it.

11/10

first of all you play mesmer as your main, you more than anyone have a vested interest in seeing thief be nerfed as we’re probably the only profession that can actually counter you in tpvp.

second of all you don’t mention the fact that steal only does those things when we fully invest in a traitline that only offers offensive utility tied to our two profession mechanics, initiative and steal- the large majority this utility being based around steal and thus is rendered useless if it misses. the traitline is also a mixed bag with it’s stat bonus because it gives +300 condition damage (just like illusions) instead ferocity like most of 6th traitlines do.

we have to heavily, heavily invest in traitlines specifically to get steal up to the point where it’s worth using, so by acting like we don’t you’re underhandedly trying to make your argument stronger. just naming off effects like a tool-tip without any actual context through commentary isn’t going to get you far.

While the point that a thief invests an extraordinary amount of traits in order to make steal this ridiculously overpowered is true….it doesn’t matter.

The problem is that no one skill in the game should be able to be boosted this much. Those traits should be reworked and aimed at other aspects of the thief toolkit, providing more balanced and interesting builds than the 1-hit wonder multi-tool for every situation that steal becomes now.

fully traited with the same logic guardian virtues are op and must get nerfed.
but i dont mind if they nerf steal and buff thief somewhere else since i dont even use the meta build its for coordinated teams mostly

Actually shatter and steal are both skill-less builds since you are depending on the ability of you opponent to click on your character and nothing else.
miss click or miss dodge = gibbed.

Some kitten in this game really needs reliable counters (like retaliation was in the beginning) something that actually punishes going into zerk instead of making zerk the norm.

Any build that uses 1-2 buttons to drop huge damage has no reason to exist in this game tbh.

High-level play in this game is generally dominated by instant-casts, invulns, blocks, and abilities that basically lack counterplay, steal being one of them (random-dodge is not counterplay – if you miss steal, its your fault and the opponent pretty much got lucky).

Instant-casts in general, especially offensive ones that are very strong are a big problem in a game that is supposed to be very visual and highlight action-reaction. This leads to a very strong disconnect between mid-level and high level play.

At the mid-level, the game depends a lot on watching for key opponent skills and reacting. At the high-level (because of all the instant-casts) its more about anticipating/predicting your opponent and taking pre-emptive countermeasures.

Yes, instant steal is stupid with all that it does, as is fresh-air instant burst, shatter-bursts from stealth. However, without the instant-burst, spike builds in this game have nothing because defenses are so strong. As such, you can’t really adjust too much.

I do agree all thief skills that ignore LOS are stupid, but Grouch has stated this is unlikely to change, so I guess they like the design. I would love if they would just require LOS for skills to at least introduce a little more counterplay.

i agree that game needs more counter play to punish zerking but anet likes damage with defense and healing just being temporary tool and they also like every fight to finish with someone dowoned

please do something about it…need some balance

I also agree fully traited Steal is overpowered, thieves can afford to invest that many traits into it, they have all the survivavility they need in their weapon skills, utilities and class mechanic, they are among the few that can also afford to equip a berserker amulet, just like shatter mesmers. Their survivability both have is active and not passive, so is driven much more by player skill, hence their investment in fully damage and utility traits, I’ve always seen this as kind of unfair to other professions.

Skrill.6170:

Simon.3794:

TheThiefMaster.3812:

it takes 12 traits ( minor ones included )to make steal as strong it is yet you feel your kittening is justified i bet …………………….people.

so, mesmer has 12 traits, but are shatters as strong as steal?
warrior has 12 traits, but are burst skills as strong as steal?

why to justify……hmmmmm…

Mesmer shatters:
1 – deals high dmg
2 – applies 1 stack confusion
3 – daze
4 – 5 stacks vulnerability
5 – evade all attacks for 1 sec
6 – interrupt with f3 applies 3 stacks vulnerability
7 – every shatter applies 1 stack vulnerability
8 – every shatter applies 1 stack confusion
9 – f2 grants 5 sec retaliation
10 – instant recharge all shatters at 50% hp
11 – shattering illusions grants might
12 – shattering illusions creates the shatter effect on you as well
13 – every shatter skill is aoe
14 – when midwrack/cry crits, you get vigor
15 – mindwrack deals 20% more dmg
16 – every shatter removes a boon on hit
17 – every shatter is instant cast
18 – shatter recharge reduced by 30%
19 – shatter effects get stronger for every illusion shattered
20 – can be activated from long range
.
wahh shatter too stronk wahh
.
.
Yes, your shatters are just as strong as steal. My point is.. yes u get extremely strong skills if u heavily trait into the corresponding trait lines.

shatter is not as strong, 1st it’s so easy to dodge unlike steal, even at melee range is so easy to dodge, no body would ever use it at long range, shatter is melee ranged, if you can’t see clones walking slowly to you then it’s really L2P, 2nd it’s 4 buttons not one. 3rd of all, mesmer not my main, i just play it like i play thief, mesmer, warrior, engi, necro, cuz you know, learn about other classes and counter plays make you better, in fact i have more time on my thief then most of the classes.

OT: i was playing non trickery thieves 4 signet 1 shot trolol build, and these trickery thieves just abuse steal so much, getting carried by it, and act like they are good. so sad, it’s like people playing PU and think they are good. unreal. for the ones i’ve countered today, without trickery steal hit they can’t even win, even tho i’m freaking 4 signets. not to mention that i’m freaking human and they are asuras ( gg standard enemy models gets undone after stealth.)

I’m careful to run around calling something overpowered, but steal with all the meta traits is one hell of a skill.

• 900 Range instant teleport with no animation (base)
• Deals 1-1.5k damage and heals for about 2k (major traited)
• Deals ~10 seconds of Poison (minor traited)
• Gain 2 initiative (minor)
• Gain 10-13 seconds of Fury, Might, Swiftness depending if acro or not (major)
• Steal 2 boons from opponent, gain 10-13 seconds of vigor depending if acro (major)
• 1 second Daze, and an additional cooldown reduction of about 4.5 seconds (major)
• Gain a skill from opponent based on class that can be of further detriment to them; specifically Mesmer (holy hell of buffs), Ele with chill a soon as they leave water, and Necro with fear. (base)

All of that in one instant 900 range skill with no animation and on a 20 second cooldown is a lot no doubt. While I think it’s obviously overpowered, it, like other skills/traits in this game can not just simply be nerfed without redesigning a lot of other things with the class to keep it in a decent spot. And I do not think Anet has the resources, ability, or motivtation to nerf (fix) the skills/traits in this game that have little to no counterplay (insert list here).

Whether steal is traited is Op or not is a matter of opinion. Though thief in the current meta is an ok class its not top tier. They are far from op they have counters(med guard, engi, necro etc.. They cant really 1v1 a lot of the celestial/bunkerish meta builds.

So to those who want thief steal nerfed suggest some things to compensate it. Some have mention thief is one of the few classes that can wear a zerker amy. Which is not true Med guards, power necro, and even rangers wear zerker Amy. Thief has less options than other classes and has no choice but to run zerker amy.

nerf steal buff short-bow so i can have more fun you cant trait short-bow for pvp at the the time

Yeah nerf the thief again , till no one plays it because is pure kitten .

46 replies, 846 views within less than 24 hours. Finally, the utter brokenness of Steal gets the attention it deserves.

I can’t believe tho, how many people jump to defending an ability which can do 18(!) things at once by pressing just one button. How delusional must one be to call that “balanced”.

Nitesky.6427:

46 replies, 846 views within less than 24 hours. Finally, the utter brokenness of Steal gets the attention it deserves.

I can’t believe tho, how many people jump to defending an ability which can do 18(!) things at once by pressing just one button. How delusional must one be to call that “balanced”.

Steal does not do 18 things, you should at lest bother to read the op statement before you post. The number of views/replies doesn’t have any bearing on the matter. I have seen lb ranger threads get much more attention.

Thief’s have counters, weakness, they are one of the harder classes to play, not great 1v1, and not a req prof.

vincecontix.1264:

Whether steal is traited is Op or not is a matter of opinion. Though thief in the current meta is an ok class its not top tier. They are far from op they have counters(med guard, engi, necro etc.. They cant really 1v1 a lot of the celestial/bunkerish meta builds.

So to those who want thief steal nerfed suggest some things to compensate it. Some have mention thief is one of the few classes that can wear a zerker amy. Which is not true Med guards, power necro, and even rangers wear zerker Amy. Thief has less options than other classes and has no choice but to run zerker amy.

Honestly, I’m not truly familiar enough with thief to suggest viable alternatives for the myriad traits that affect steal, and that really should be a job for the devs. The important thing is that the message is gotten across that steal shouldn’t be possible to trait into a monster. The traits need to be re-aimed at other areas that could use interesting modifiers instead of just piling it all onto steal.