Guild Wars 2

coglin.1867:

Another thing in relation to the warrior in this case, is that they can trait these to break immobilize. This does cause a problem, because it would make fixing this specific complaint difficult. Personally they could abolish this trait as far as I am concerned. As such ease of breaking the condition immobilize is counter to what Jonathan Sharp specified as the professions balance philosophy.

“We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.”

Yet they have much better then average general cleansing options, and a better then average access immobilize breakers.

While we’re at it we should just ask anet to remove the warrior class from the game. Seems like nothing short of that will make any one happy.

My last log in was somewhere in November 2013, reason warriors, exactly, I got eviscerate for 16+k damage, that’s more than thief HP bar. You may start trash talk about l2p, but my gw 2 game experience is since November 2012- November 2013, mostly as a thief, champion illusionist champion shadow. IMO wariors have all in one, best of all classes, high survivability, high DPS, high mobility. So the point is, this game only about favorite class by devs, and player base can do nothing with it.

JETWING.2759:

LordByron.8369:

I have a great idea…

Why don t simply reduce the range and double the cooldown on miss?
Can be done with initiative cost also…should cost double and give half back on hit ….

I m sure it would work perfectly leaving untouched the gap closing ability…

That why you guys is talking about is just absurd. You just want that an Warrior, easy target without AI, Stealth, Protection or Teleport, just no have any chance of flee or disengage a fight, when half of professions has access to stealth, 7 them has AI, heal spam, combo spam, ect, etc. etc…

No comments more

The difference here is that when a mesmer or thief stealths, it’s to decieve and open space. The warrior in this duel will be able to use his landspeed skills to gap close, as the stealth classes arent gaining any extra landspeed from their stealth (thief having an exception if traited for a bit more speed in stealth).
The warrior on the other hand can open up a gap with landspeed that no stealth or teleport can close.

The point of re-balancing Landspeed isn’t to make Warriors free kills. But to properly balance them so they are stuck in the fight like most other classes are. If that means they need more dps or sustain to compete in that scenario, that’s the next stage of balancing the Landspeed issue.

Actually Ele’s have better landspeed than warriors, especially when using FG.

Samhayn.2385:

I don’t think land speed by itself is really a problem for warriors, I think the problem is a lack of a flaw or weakness. Things like mesmers weakness to Condi burst or thief low surviabilty out of stealth, guardians and the choose of low damage or low survivability, necros lack of a way to deal with CC etc etc etc. You can find a weakness and use it against them as a class, this well roundedness of warriors seems to be to good and seems to cover everything.

Yup.
Warrior is like:

-Thief dps (more or less) but great surviability
-Guardian survivability but AWESOME 1200 Range (even Thief’s range ends at 900)
and the list goes on and on …

And the best part is: The more they get, the more greedy they become. You can’t throw a stone now without hitting a warrior and still players demand more and more and more.
Where does it end? Broken game in which most of the playstyles are eliminated bc. of their uselessness. Wake up before you hurt yourself.

TexZero.7910:

Actually Ele’s have better landspeed than warriors, especially when using FG.

Actually, ONLY when using FGS. The rest of the time, warriors win just using gs.

JETWING.2759:

LordByron.8369:

I have a great idea…

Why don t simply reduce the range and double the cooldown on miss?
Can be done with initiative cost also…should cost double and give half back on hit ….

I m sure it would work perfectly leaving untouched the gap closing ability…

That why you guys is talking about is just absurd. You just want that an Warrior, easy target without AI, Stealth, Protection or Teleport, just no have any chance of flee or disengage a fight, when half of professions has access to stealth, 7 them has AI, heal spam, combo spam, ect, etc. etc…

No comments more

Stop telling the lie that warriors are easy targets without any defenses. They have lots of invulnerbilities, more than other classes actually, seeing as block is equal to mistform in protection.

Even if you changed rush so that it’s cooldown increased when missing a target (like RTL) I still doubt you’d catch a warrior who wants to leave (when traited/geared to be good at it) if they are any good.

Personally I think the nerf to RTL should be reverted rather than the inverse.

Malik.6781:

My last log in was somewhere in November 2013, reason warriors, exactly, I got eviscerate for 16+k damage, that’s more than thief HP bar. You may start trash talk about l2p, but my gw 2 game experience is since November 2012- November 2013, mostly as a thief, champion illusionist champion shadow. IMO wariors have all in one, best of all classes, high survivability, high DPS, high mobility. So the point is, this game only about favorite class by devs, and player base can do nothing with it.

And what kind of gear were you and the warrior wearing? I’m guessing berserker right? What kind of buffs? Debuffs? Food?

You leave out quite a bit of information. And don’t act like thieves can’t do similar amounts of damage from stealth, if not more.

But I guess if you admitted to those little tidbits of fact then you wouldn’t be able to say warriors are op.

fellyn.5083:

coglin.1867:

Another thing in relation to the warrior in this case, is that they can trait these to break immobilize. This does cause a problem, because it would make fixing this specific complaint difficult. Personally they could abolish this trait as far as I am concerned. As such ease of breaking the condition immobilize is counter to what Jonathan Sharp specified as the professions balance philosophy.

“We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.”

Yet they have much better then average general cleansing options, and a better then average access immobilize breakers.

While we’re at it we should just ask anet to remove the warrior class from the game. Seems like nothing short of that will make any one happy.

No need for your dramatic sarcasm. Like it or not, immobilize is a condition, and Anet specifically states in their balance expectations that warriors by design and balance in their own words, should require help from other professions to deal with “hampering conditions”. This is clear evidence to validate my comments in this case.

They have nerfed other professions based on these exact “balancing philosophies”. Eles were specifically targeted for nerfs based on their movement. Several other professions have had there vigor nerfed based on these philosophies. Eles have had mobility nerfed based on these philosophies. Engineers have had their damage nerfed multiple times based on these philosophies. Every profession has had direct and hard nerfs based in large part by the warrior communities complaints (although we are aware there were other parts of the community as well). Honestly, we can do with out the over dramatic sarcasm, and you could attempt to see the disparities between what the balancing philosophy states and what warriors are actually able to do.

coglin.1867:

fellyn.5083:

coglin.1867:

Another thing in relation to the warrior in this case, is that they can trait these to break immobilize. This does cause a problem, because it would make fixing this specific complaint difficult. Personally they could abolish this trait as far as I am concerned. As such ease of breaking the condition immobilize is counter to what Jonathan Sharp specified as the professions balance philosophy.

“We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.”

Yet they have much better then average general cleansing options, and a better then average access immobilize breakers.

While we’re at it we should just ask anet to remove the warrior class from the game. Seems like nothing short of that will make any one happy.

No need for your dramatic sarcasm. Like it or not, immobilize is a condition, and Anet specifically states in their balance expectations that warriors by design and balance in their own words, should require help from other professions to deal with “hampering conditions”. This is clear evidence to validate my comments in this case.

They have nerfed other professions based on these exact “balancing philosophies”. Eles were specifically targeted for nerfs based on their movement. Several other professions have had there vigor nerfed based on these philosophies. Eles have had mobility nerfed based on these philosophies. Engineers have had their damage nerfed multiple times based on these philosophies. Every profession has had direct and hard nerfs based in large part by the warrior communities complaints (although we are aware there were other parts of the community as well). Honestly, we can do with out the over dramatic sarcasm, and you could attempt to see the disparities between what the balancing philosophy states and what warriors are actually able to do.

You’re stretching incredibly far for that one. And I wasn’t being sarcastic. The way this particular forum is going people will only be happy once warrior has been removed from the game completely, so why stop at removing just 1 trait?

Interesting. I quoted a dev post and stated how a professions current ability contradict the balance philosophy, and am dubbed a troll?

Care to actually explain how I am “stretching” anything?

coglin.1867:

Interesting. I quoted a dev post and stated how a professions current ability contradict the balance philosophy, and am dubbed a troll?

Care to actually explain how I am “stretching” anything?

It’s interesting how you take that to mean only movement impairing conditions instead of the other 8 million conditions in the game and think this is a valid reason to remove one of the more useful wvw/pvp traits warrior has.

But no no, I understand, you want warriors rooted in place from 100% hp to 0% hp. You deserve those kills after all.

fellyn.5083:

coglin.1867:

Interesting. I quoted a dev post and stated how a professions current ability contradict the balance philosophy, and am dubbed a troll?

Care to actually explain how I am “stretching” anything?

It’s interesting how you take that to mean only movement impairing conditions instead of the other 8 million conditions in the game and think this is a valid reason to remove one of the more useful wvw/pvp traits warrior has.

But no no, I understand, you want warriors rooted in place from 100% hp to 0% hp. You deserve those kills after all.

Now you’re the one stretching it. TBH from that video I saw the movement abilities of the warrior are too strong period, regardless of whatever damage conditions you are bringing up that have no basis in this discussion. The thief is supposed to be the escape class, not warrior. Warriors are supposed to be the aggressive class, charging to the enemy, not away. This makes the simple and obvious solution to require a target for many of the warrior movement abilities.

It would seem to me that “chill”, “immobilize”, and “cripple”, fit the exact definition of “Hampering” conditions. The devs very specifically used the adjective “Hampering” and that seems fairly specific to me. As far as your concern about being rooted in place, well, it also specifically states they want warriors balanced to “require help from other professions” to deal with them.

I mean you can make all of the complaints you want at me, but I am simply stating what the devs very specifically stated as their balancing philosophies on the profession. The same professional balancing philosophies that they adhered to when nerfing other professions.

You put way to much meaning on the word hampering. But sure, lets remove a core trait from warriors because it’s doing exactly what it was designed to do. All because a bunch of whiners on the forums are complaining they are being denied their free warrior kills.

At the end of the day not a single person in this thread has provided a good reason why it needs to change other than “I think..”.

why are these people still complaining?

warriors has the best land speed, this is fact, will not change.
would you all warrior haters kindly please accept this fact and move on?

this is like,

“mesmer best illusions no balance”
“thieves best stealth no balance”
“necromancer best death shroud no balance”
“guardians best boons no balance”
“rangers best spirits no balance”
“engineers best condition damage no balance”
“elementalist best something no balance”

get over it already.
move on.

fellyn.5083:

You put way to much meaning on the word hampering. But sure, lets remove a core trait from warriors because it’s doing exactly what it was designed to do. All because a bunch of whiners on the forums are complaining they are being denied their free warrior kills.

At the end of the day not a single person in this thread has provided a good reason why it needs to change other than “I think..”.

I see your point, but I think your entire case falls apart upon close inspection… Your retort always involves “free warrior kills”, but since when have warriors been considered free kills? Are they not considered, by any non-biased source, to be one of the strongest classes in the current meta? So how is getting a warrior down to low HP a “free warrior kill”? And if you say “well maybe you outnumber the warrior so it’s a free kill!”, that would apply to ANY class. Then, by your own logic, EVERY class should have huge mobility comparable to a Warrior’s.

Thus it seems your core response fails. No one is suggesting that warriors should be free kills, and warriors even with 0 battle movement are hardly free kills.

I also find it funny that you call this a “core trait” of warriors. In what sense is this a core trait? A very powerful trait, yes, but hardly core to Warrior. It’s extraneous, not part of the core Warrior experience.

Arius.7031:

I see your point, but I think your entire case falls apart upon close inspection… Your retort always involves “free warrior kills”, but since when have warriors been considered free kills? Are they not considered, by any non-biased source, to be one of the strongest classes in the current meta? So how is getting a warrior down to low HP a “free warrior kill”? And if you say “well maybe you outnumber the warrior so it’s a free kill!”, that would apply to ANY class. Then, by your own logic, EVERY class should have huge mobility comparable to a Warrior’s.

Thus it seems your core response fails. No one is suggesting that warriors should be free kills, and warriors even with 0 battle movement are hardly free kills.

I also find it funny that you call this a “core trait” of warriors. In what sense is this a core trait? A very powerful trait, yes, but hardly core to Warrior. It’s extraneous, not part of the core Warrior experience.

did you even play warriors in sPvP during launch?

warriors have best landspeed.
this is fact. will not change.
accept and move on.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

why are these people still complaining?

warriors has the best land speed, this is fact, will not change.
would you all warrior haters kindly please accept this fact and move on?

this is like,

“mesmer best illusions no balance”
“thieves best stealth no balance”
“necromancer best death shroud no balance”
“guardians best boons no balance”
“rangers best spirits no balance”
“engineers best condition damage no balance”
“elementalist best something no balance”

get over it already.
move on.

People have repeatedly mentioned that it’s the warrior’s huge access to mobility, natural tankiness, and huge condi cleansing all in conjunction that make it OP. Think about this for a moment, the toughest or 2nd toughest class in game also is the most capable at escaping a battle using mobility. That’s ridiculous design and we both know it.

Further, you just mentioned the defining characteristics of each class (mesmer illusions, guardian boons, necromancer deathshroud), and pretended that mobility for Warrior is comparable to these. I believe the staple of Warrior is its raw strength (both offensive and defense), which (in the way this intended) has NOTHING to do with mobility.

Every other class has serious disadvantages for their strengths (even Mesmers rofl). Guardian has the lowest vit pool in the game to compensate for its boons, as well as abnormally low damage. Necromancer cannot outrun anything for its deathshroud. Thieves die in 5 seconds when unstealthed. Etc… What is the compensation for Warrior?

Where is the SERIOUS weakness for the Warrior? You can say the War has little access to defensive boons, but I can say to compensate for that they have the highest Vit/tough in the game, as well as exceedingly strong defensive utilities/weapons (e.g. GS 3, shield 5, offensive damage mitigation in the form of stuns).

Also, not everyone who calls Warrior OP is a Warrior hater. I repeat, I have a level 80 warrior that is currently my most played class. I play it every day for hours, I LOVE this class. I’m no hater, I’m just not blind to my own class’s balance because I have multiple 80s and actually pay attention.

Arius.7031:

fellyn.5083:

You put way to much meaning on the word hampering. But sure, lets remove a core trait from warriors because it’s doing exactly what it was designed to do. All because a bunch of whiners on the forums are complaining they are being denied their free warrior kills.

At the end of the day not a single person in this thread has provided a good reason why it needs to change other than “I think..”.

I see your point, but I think your entire case falls apart upon close inspection… Your retort always involves “free warrior kills”, but since when have warriors been considered free kills? Are they not considered, by any non-biased source, to be one of the strongest classes in the current meta? So how is getting a warrior down to low HP a “free warrior kill”? And if you say “well maybe you outnumber the warrior so it’s a free kill!”, that would apply to ANY class. Then, by your own logic, EVERY class should have huge mobility comparable to a Warrior’s.

Thus it seems your core response fails. No one is suggesting that warriors should be free kills, and warriors even with 0 battle movement are hardly free kills.

I also find it funny that you call this a “core trait” of warriors. In what sense is this a core trait? A very powerful trait, yes, but hardly core to Warrior. It’s extraneous, not part of the core Warrior experience.

Difference is I’m not arguing to take something away because I don’t like it.

fellyn.5083:

Arius.7031:

fellyn.5083:

You put way to much meaning on the word hampering. But sure, lets remove a core trait from warriors because it’s doing exactly what it was designed to do. All because a bunch of whiners on the forums are complaining they are being denied their free warrior kills.

At the end of the day not a single person in this thread has provided a good reason why it needs to change other than “I think..”.

I see your point, but I think your entire case falls apart upon close inspection… Your retort always involves “free warrior kills”, but since when have warriors been considered free kills? Are they not considered, by any non-biased source, to be one of the strongest classes in the current meta? So how is getting a warrior down to low HP a “free warrior kill”? And if you say “well maybe you outnumber the warrior so it’s a free kill!”, that would apply to ANY class. Then, by your own logic, EVERY class should have huge mobility comparable to a Warrior’s.

Thus it seems your core response fails. No one is suggesting that warriors should be free kills, and warriors even with 0 battle movement are hardly free kills.

I also find it funny that you call this a “core trait” of warriors. In what sense is this a core trait? A very powerful trait, yes, but hardly core to Warrior. It’s extraneous, not part of the core Warrior experience.

Difference is I’m not arguing to take something away because I don’t like it.

I don’t think anyone’s argument amounts to “I don’t like it”. I think the case is more accurately summed up thusly:

Warriors are in a good enough place balance-wise that the additional mobility is not only uneeded, but indeed, overpowered. The Warrior’s natural tankiness, defensive utilities, high access to offensive boons, and extremely powerful condi cleansing/resistance combine to make the Warrior’s high mobility too much.

TexZero.7910:

Actually Ele’s have better landspeed than warriors, especially when using FG.

Err, no?

Arius.7031:

fellyn.5083:

Arius.7031:

fellyn.5083:

You put way to much meaning on the word hampering. But sure, lets remove a core trait from warriors because it’s doing exactly what it was designed to do. All because a bunch of whiners on the forums are complaining they are being denied their free warrior kills.

At the end of the day not a single person in this thread has provided a good reason why it needs to change other than “I think..”.

I see your point, but I think your entire case falls apart upon close inspection… Your retort always involves “free warrior kills”, but since when have warriors been considered free kills? Are they not considered, by any non-biased source, to be one of the strongest classes in the current meta? So how is getting a warrior down to low HP a “free warrior kill”? And if you say “well maybe you outnumber the warrior so it’s a free kill!”, that would apply to ANY class. Then, by your own logic, EVERY class should have huge mobility comparable to a Warrior’s.

Thus it seems your core response fails. No one is suggesting that warriors should be free kills, and warriors even with 0 battle movement are hardly free kills.

I also find it funny that you call this a “core trait” of warriors. In what sense is this a core trait? A very powerful trait, yes, but hardly core to Warrior. It’s extraneous, not part of the core Warrior experience.

Difference is I’m not arguing to take something away because I don’t like it.

I don’t think anyone’s argument amounts to “I don’t like it”. I think the case is more accurately summed up thusly:

Warriors are in a good enough place balance-wise that the additional mobility is not only uneeded, but indeed, overpowered. The Warrior’s natural tankiness, defensive utilities, high access to offensive boons, and extremely powerful condi cleansing/resistance combine to make the Warrior’s high mobility too much.

I don’t know if you’re caught up on reading this thread, but some one actually proposed to remove traits from warrior help with condition cleanse. They want warrior to be a sitting duck.

And you’re right, most arguments in this thread are not “I don’t like it”, instead it’s mostly “it’s not fair”. Which is the best reason to balance something I’ve ever heard of. Ironically at any given point in time some one has probably claimed every single thing in the game isn’t fair for one reason or another. So yeah…

These people would only be satisfied when warriors have no movement and walk as if they are perma chilled free bags before they are happy.

fellyn.5083:

Difference is I’m not arguing to take something away because I don’t like it.

Whether you or I like it or not is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that they adhere to the balancing philosophies consistently.

See on like the two of you who are so vehemently arguing to keep the warriors unreasonably out of balance, I have leveled all 8 professions to 80. 50-60 levels of each of those was done in WvW. You appear to speak out of a fear about your capability to be successful with your professions if it is anything less the over powered. I on the other hand am simply speaking out of my personal experience and relating those to the balancing philosophies.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

did you even play warriors in sPvP during launch?

warriors have best landspeed.
this is fact. will not change.
accept and move on.

Why yes, yes I did. It was my first profession to 80. followed by Guardian then Engineer How about you, did you play any other profession at launch?
Let me ask you this. Do you have a better argument then
“We have always had this mobility and it will not change, so deal with it”
Honestly, you need a better reason then this.

Now you posted some very inaccurate comments earlier

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“mesmer best illusions no balance”
“thieves best stealth no balance”
“necromancer best death shroud no balance”
“guardians best boons no balance”
“rangers best spirits no balance”
“engineers best condition damage no balance”
“elementalist best something no balance”

After reading this, I am unclear if you are simply worried about your lack of survivability if you lose your ability to flee or if it is simply a complete and total lack of knowledge and experience with other professions.

fellyn.5083:

I don’t know if you’re caught up on reading this thread, but some one actually proposed to remove traits from warrior help with condition cleanse. They want warrior to be a sitting duck.

So are you suggesting that they did not specifically say there balancing philosophy is ??

“We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.”

Now can you present a reasonable argument support where the philosophy suggestion land speed or mobility in any way? Can you present a reasonable argument as to why they should have such high condition removal, the ability to use weapon skills to break immobility, and the ability to limit immobility duration? As these functions and feature directly counter the devs specific balancing philosophy.

coglin.1867:

How about you, did you play any other profession at launch?
Let me ask you this. Do you have a better argument then
“We have always had this mobility and it will not change, so deal with it”
Honestly, you need a better reason then this.

i played mesmer after i realized my warrior was kissing the floor often back then.
till now, the stats still record my mesmer as most played profession.
i started playing warrior again in sPvP after they started introducing dogged march, cleansing ire etc. and then the healing signet well deserved fix.

and yes, deal with it.
mesmers have illusions, why dun you ask for mesmer to remove illusions too?
thieves have stealth, lets remove stealth also yay.
necromancers have death shroud, remove it!

seriously, warriors are fast. deal with it.
quit your whining and complaining.

every professions is unique, warriors have the best landspeed.
now would you kindly please stop beating this dead horse?

warrior’s “best landspeed” never was a problem.
never will be.
always working as intended.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

coglin.1867:

How about you, did you play any other profession at launch?
Let me ask you this. Do you have a better argument then
“We have always had this mobility and it will not change, so deal with it”
Honestly, you need a better reason then this.

i played mesmer after i realized my warrior was kissing the floor often back then.
till now, the stats still record my mesmer as most played profession.
i started playing warrior again in sPvP after they started introducing dogged march, cleansing ire etc. and then the healing signet well deserved fix.

and yes, deal with it.
mesmers have illusions, why dun you ask for mesmer to remove illusions too?
thieves have stealth, lets remove stealth also yay.
necromancers have death shroud, remove it!

seriously, warriors are fast. deal with it.
quit your whining and complaining.

every professions is unique, warriors have the best landspeed.
now would you kindly please stop beating this dead horse?

warrior’s “best landspeed” never was a problem.
never will be.
always working as intended.

warriors have too many of those “best” things, that is the problem

Cynz.9437:

warriors have too many of those “best” things, that is the problem

yes, warriors will always have many of these so called “best” things because warriors are meant to be the easiest profession to play.

by the way, warriors still die every now and then even with many of these “best” things.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Cynz.9437:

warriors have too many of those “best” things, that is the problem

yes, warriors will always have many of these so called “best” things because warriors are meant to be the easiest profession to play.

by the way, warriors still die every now and then even with many of these “best” things.

can all classes just get all those “best” thing and we call it a day heh

I find it annoying when warriors call themselves a free bag. Last night I was in a militia group in TCBL, about 8 to 10 players, we came across a warrior that pretty much stood in one place, barely moved around, it took the militia about 15 to 20 seconds to take him down, but he didn’t go down until he took down another player. So this guy had 8 to 10 players beating down on him, and he still had time to take down one of the militia people and run a stake into him before we finally took him down. Yea, on my ranger, if I had 8 to 10 players on me I’d last like 2 seconds! Don’t tell me that warrior’s are easy bags because that just saying that your full of kitten! Try playing ranger for a while in WvW then tell me who the easy bags are! And yes, I do have a warrior and a thief as well.

Cynz.9437:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Cynz.9437:

warriors have too many of those “best” things, that is the problem

yes, warriors will always have many of these so called “best” things because warriors are meant to be the easiest profession to play.

by the way, warriors still die every now and then even with many of these “best” things.

can all classes just get all those “best” thing and we call it a day heh

Cynz they already got their best things.

mesmer got best illusions, best confusion, etc
thieves got best stealth, best damage, etc
necromancers got best death shroud, best minions, etc
etc

warriors got best landspeed.

them warrior haters should really accept and move on.
because this will not change.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Cynz they already got their best things.

mesmer got best illusions, best confusion, etc
thieves got best stealth, best damage, etc
necromancers got best death shroud, best minions, etc
etc

warriors got best landspeed.

them warrior haters should really accept and move on.
because this will not change.

That made no sense.

Mesmer got best illusions. Which other class has illusions that you are comparing them to?

Necromancer got best Death Shroud, best minions….
Same problem here. Those are Necromancer specific mechanics.

Land speed is not a profession specific. It is something all of us have, some just better than others.

Reesha.7901:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Cynz they already got their best things.

mesmer got best illusions, best confusion, etc
thieves got best stealth, best damage, etc
necromancers got best death shroud, best minions, etc
etc

warriors got best landspeed.

them warrior haters should really accept and move on.
because this will not change.

That made no sense.

Mesmer got best illusions. Which other class has illusions that you are comparing them to?

Necromancer got best Death Shroud, best minions….
Same problem here. Those are Necromancer specific mechanics.

Land speed is not a profession specific. It is something all of us have, some just better than others.

True. totally agree.

Keep in mind that landspeed is one thing and combat speed is other thing. Some classes have good (OP??) combat speed and other have good (OP?) land speed.
The only class that has them BOTH is thief.
Warrior only got one of them (landspeed).

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

coglin.1867:

How about you, did you play any other profession at launch?
Let me ask you this. Do you have a better argument then
“We have always had this mobility and it will not change, so deal with it”
Honestly, you need a better reason then this.

i played mesmer after i realized my warrior was kissing the floor often back then.
till now, the stats still record my mesmer as most played profession.
i started playing warrior again in sPvP after they started introducing dogged march, cleansing ire etc. and then the healing signet well deserved fix.

and yes, deal with it.
mesmers have illusions, why dun you ask for mesmer to remove illusions too?
thieves have stealth, lets remove stealth also yay.
necromancers have death shroud, remove it!

seriously, warriors are fast. deal with it.
quit your whining and complaining.

every professions is unique, warriors have the best landspeed.
now would you kindly please stop beating this dead horse?

warrior’s “best landspeed” never was a problem.
never will be.
always working as intended.

removing illusions would be like removing adrenaline from warriors, no one has asked for that. Your special mechanic is adrenalin not land speed, or the ability to almost ignore movement impairing effects, or the best passive healing, or the highest dps, or the highest hard cc (stun, knock backs, knock downs). So please stop playing at the game of everything you have is the definition of your class, its not and right now warriors are outside the balance spectrum and something needs to change. Warriors are too good at to many things and it seems the only people who don’t know this are warriors and devs.

btw, I think the real issue started at release when warriors started getting buffs and other classes ate nerfs. So even with nerfs the the warrior you still wouldn’t be in the same place as release because most classes are much different then we where back then.

coglin.1867:

fellyn.5083:

Difference is I’m not arguing to take something away because I don’t like it.

Whether you or I like it or not is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that they adhere to the balancing philosophies consistently.

See on like the two of you who are so vehemently arguing to keep the warriors unreasonably out of balance, I have leveled all 8 professions to 80. 50-60 levels of each of those was done in WvW. You appear to speak out of a fear about your capability to be successful with your professions if it is anything less the over powered. I on the other hand am simply speaking out of my personal experience and relating those to the balancing philosophies.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

did you even play warriors in sPvP during launch?

warriors have best landspeed.
this is fact. will not change.
accept and move on.

Why yes, yes I did. It was my first profession to 80. followed by Guardian then Engineer How about you, did you play any other profession at launch?
Let me ask you this. Do you have a better argument then
“We have always had this mobility and it will not change, so deal with it”
Honestly, you need a better reason then this.

Now you posted some very inaccurate comments earlier

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“mesmer best illusions no balance”
“thieves best stealth no balance”
“necromancer best death shroud no balance”
“guardians best boons no balance”
“rangers best spirits no balance”
“engineers best condition damage no balance”
“elementalist best something no balance”

After reading this, I am unclear if you are simply worried about your lack of survivability if you lose your ability to flee or if it is simply a complete and total lack of knowledge and experience with other professions.

fellyn.5083:

I don’t know if you’re caught up on reading this thread, but some one actually proposed to remove traits from warrior help with condition cleanse. They want warrior to be a sitting duck.

So are you suggesting that they did not specifically say there balancing philosophy is ??

“We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.”

Now can you present a reasonable argument support where the philosophy suggestion land speed or mobility in any way? Can you present a reasonable argument as to why they should have such high condition removal, the ability to use weapon skills to break immobility, and the ability to limit immobility duration? As these functions and feature directly counter the devs specific balancing philosophy.

No, I’m saying their balancing philosophies are a joke. And you trying to use them as an argument to remove important traits from warrior is a bigger joke.

What i gathered from this topic so far…

fellyn.5083:

No, I’m saying their balancing philosophies are a joke. And you trying to use them as an argument to remove important traits from warrior is a bigger joke.

Sorry my friend, but this is not a thread made for debating their balancing philosophies. If you take issue with that, feel free to start up a thread about that topic and attempt to get the devs attention in that manner and direction. Your completely off topic with that. What is relevant though, is that you appear to be okay with the nerfs other professions received based on these philosophies. If I am incorrect in that deduction, please correct me, I would love to hear your take on how they have gone wrong with other professions, as to have made some of the statements you have made you must certainly have leveled all of the professions to 80 and spent some time with them to make some judgements, as I have done so. Please, my friend, share with us how you feel your experiences leveling and playing the other professions has promoted your perspective that having such movement capability is reasonable for the warrior.

I simply ask this, because you haven’t really expanding to a path of logic or relating facts thus far as in relative comparison to your experiences on the other professions. So, please tell us, how much time you spent on each of the other professions, and how those experiences have brought you to feel this is balanced.

You see, in my experience, I dislike there balancing philosophies on a few of the classes myself, but that is just as irrelevant to the topic as your feeling on the balance philosophies of the warrior. Like it or not, we have to discuss the topic inside the scope of their philosophies. Unless a day comes that they actually adjust them.

Deimos Tel Arin is a known forum warrior troll, stop feeding him already.

Samhayn.2385:

removing illusions would be like removing adrenaline from warriors, no one has asked for that. Your special mechanic is adrenalin not land speed, or the ability to almost ignore movement impairing effects, or the best passive healing, or the highest dps, or the highest hard cc (stun, knock backs, knock downs). So please stop playing at the game of everything you have is the definition of your class, its not and right now warriors are outside the balance spectrum and something needs to change. Warriors are too good at to many things and it seems the only people who don’t know this are warriors and devs.

btw, I think the real issue started at release when warriors started getting buffs and other classes ate nerfs. So even with nerfs the the warrior you still wouldn’t be in the same place as release because most classes are much different then we where back then.

do you know that warriors already got “best landspeed” during launch? just that during launch, they lack the sustain they have now, so no one bothered to say anything.

regarding nerfs, warriors have been receiving fair amount of nerfs since 10 dec 2013.

warriors will always have the best landspeed.
this will not change.
would you all warrior haters kindly please stop asking for the impossible?
thank you.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Samhayn.2385:

removing illusions would be like removing adrenaline from warriors, no one has asked for that. Your special mechanic is adrenalin not land speed, or the ability to almost ignore movement impairing effects, or the best passive healing, or the highest dps, or the highest hard cc (stun, knock backs, knock downs). So please stop playing at the game of everything you have is the definition of your class, its not and right now warriors are outside the balance spectrum and something needs to change. Warriors are too good at to many things and it seems the only people who don’t know this are warriors and devs.

btw, I think the real issue started at release when warriors started getting buffs and other classes ate nerfs. So even with nerfs the the warrior you still wouldn’t be in the same place as release because most classes are much different then we where back then.

do you know that warriors already got “best landspeed” during launch? just that during launch, they lack the sustain they have now, so no one bothered to say anything.

regarding nerfs, warriors have been receiving fair amount of nerfs since 10 dec 2013.

warriors will always have the best landspeed.
this will not change.
would you all warrior haters kindly please stop asking for the impossible?
thank you.

I never said land speed was a problem or that you should lose it. I know you had it at launch and yes it wasn’t a problem when you didn’t have the sustain you have now. Here is the crux at the time you could use it to flee and live now with you use it to repeatedly leave the fight so your passive healing can top you off and you come right back in. So something that wasn’t a problem before now becomes a problem due to other changes.

don’t like that answer? Well Necro didn’t like all the nerfs it received due to Dhummfire but after we got it we have been repeatedly “shaved” on other conditions. Why? Because well our conditions where not a problem before they has become a problem after dhuumfire.

hopefully after you do get needed you wont have what is happening to us. Dhummfire is now being changed to only work off lifebolt from deathshroud will only last 4secs and have a 10sec cool down. Yet i heard nothing about rolling back the nerfs we received because of dhummfire.

coglin.1867:

fellyn.5083:

No, I’m saying their balancing philosophies are a joke. And you trying to use them as an argument to remove important traits from warrior is a bigger joke.

Sorry my friend, but this is not a thread made for debating their balancing philosophies. If you take issue with that, feel free to start up a thread about that topic and attempt to get the devs attention in that manner and direction. Your completely off topic with that. What is relevant though, is that you appear to be okay with the nerfs other professions received based on these philosophies. If I am incorrect in that deduction, please correct me, I would love to hear your take on how they have gone wrong with other professions, as to have made some of the statements you have made you must certainly have leveled all of the professions to 80 and spent some time with them to make some judgements, as I have done so. Please, my friend, share with us how you feel your experiences leveling and playing the other professions has promoted your perspective that having such movement capability is reasonable for the warrior.

I simply ask this, because you haven’t really expanding to a path of logic or relating facts thus far as in relative comparison to your experiences on the other professions. So, please tell us, how much time you spent on each of the other professions, and how those experiences have brought you to feel this is balanced.

You see, in my experience, I dislike there balancing philosophies on a few of the classes myself, but that is just as irrelevant to the topic as your feeling on the balance philosophies of the warrior. Like it or not, we have to discuss the topic inside the scope of their philosophies. Unless a day comes that they actually adjust them.

If we’re not debating their balance philosophies then why do you keep bringing it up? You seem to forget that you’re the one who was doing that and not me. You asked what I thought about it.

And I do not remember ever mentioning my opinion on nerfs to other professions. But go on, keep assuming things and being wrong. You’re doing a good job at it so far.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Samhayn.2385:

removing illusions would be like removing adrenaline from warriors, no one has asked for that. Your special mechanic is adrenalin not land speed, or the ability to almost ignore movement impairing effects, or the best passive healing, or the highest dps, or the highest hard cc (stun, knock backs, knock downs). So please stop playing at the game of everything you have is the definition of your class, its not and right now warriors are outside the balance spectrum and something needs to change. Warriors are too good at to many things and it seems the only people who don’t know this are warriors and devs.

btw, I think the real issue started at release when warriors started getting buffs and other classes ate nerfs. So even with nerfs the the warrior you still wouldn’t be in the same place as release because most classes are much different then we where back then.

do you know that warriors already got “best landspeed” during launch? just that during launch, they lack the sustain they have now, so no one bothered to say anything.

regarding nerfs, warriors have been receiving fair amount of nerfs since 10 dec 2013.

warriors will always have the best landspeed.
this will not change.
would you all warrior haters kindly please stop asking for the impossible?
thank you.

Mesmers said that DE would never get nerfed guess what’s on the chopping block next.
They also said that illusionists celerity wouldn’t get nerfed. Guess what happened.
Thieves said their evades wouldn’t Be nerfed. They also said stealth wouldn’t be nerfed Revealed Got nerfed.
Eles didn’t think their healing would be nerfed and neither did guards
All classes have suffered nerfs that “would never” happen. And guess what they did. So stop trying to aimlessly say warriors won’t be nerfed

jportell.2197:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Samhayn.2385:

removing illusions would be like removing adrenaline from warriors, no one has asked for that. Your special mechanic is adrenalin not land speed, or the ability to almost ignore movement impairing effects, or the best passive healing, or the highest dps, or the highest hard cc (stun, knock backs, knock downs). So please stop playing at the game of everything you have is the definition of your class, its not and right now warriors are outside the balance spectrum and something needs to change. Warriors are too good at to many things and it seems the only people who don’t know this are warriors and devs.

btw, I think the real issue started at release when warriors started getting buffs and other classes ate nerfs. So even with nerfs the the warrior you still wouldn’t be in the same place as release because most classes are much different then we where back then.

do you know that warriors already got “best landspeed” during launch? just that during launch, they lack the sustain they have now, so no one bothered to say anything.

regarding nerfs, warriors have been receiving fair amount of nerfs since 10 dec 2013.

warriors will always have the best landspeed.
this will not change.
would you all warrior haters kindly please stop asking for the impossible?
thank you.

Mesmers said that DE would never get nerfed guess what’s on the chopping block next.
They also said that illusionists celerity wouldn’t get nerfed. Guess what happened.
Thieves said their evades wouldn’t Be nerfed. They also said stealth wouldn’t be nerfed Revealed Got nerfed.
Eles didn’t think their healing would be nerfed and neither did guards
All classes have suffered nerfs that “would never” happen. And guess what they did. So stop trying to aimlessly say warriors won’t be nerfed

warriors have already been receiving various nerfs since 10 dec 2013. and before that as well.
but no, warrior haters kept on demanding for more blood.
them warrior haters will not stop until them warriors become free kills again.

will receive nerf to healing signet and long bow pin down as well.

just not “landspeed” so keep on dreaming them warrior haters.

i have done 20 solo arena games.
warriors do not felt overpowered at all, but balanced.

and, by the way, they (anet) will not make changes to warriors’ “landspeed” just because some vocal minority whined about unable to score some warrior kills in WvW.

Warriors were underpowered for a long time and screaming for balance.
Is it really a surprise to the warriors that ANet went a bit too far.

You are top tier (top 2 classes) in:
Passive Healing
Armor/Toughness
CC
Escape and Evade (Landspeed issue)
Melee Damage
Condition Cleansing
Top Stats

Name the 5 counterbalance areas where the class is the weakest?
Note: Not having minions or deathshroud goes to broader issues of condition damage, range, healing etc.

It used to be that warriors were VERY susceptible to condition damage. Not anymore.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

jportell.2197:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Samhayn.2385:

removing illusions would be like removing adrenaline from warriors, no one has asked for that. Your special mechanic is adrenalin not land speed, or the ability to almost ignore movement impairing effects, or the best passive healing, or the highest dps, or the highest hard cc (stun, knock backs, knock downs). So please stop playing at the game of everything you have is the definition of your class, its not and right now warriors are outside the balance spectrum and something needs to change. Warriors are too good at to many things and it seems the only people who don’t know this are warriors and devs.

btw, I think the real issue started at release when warriors started getting buffs and other classes ate nerfs. So even with nerfs the the warrior you still wouldn’t be in the same place as release because most classes are much different then we where back then.

do you know that warriors already got “best landspeed” during launch? just that during launch, they lack the sustain they have now, so no one bothered to say anything.

regarding nerfs, warriors have been receiving fair amount of nerfs since 10 dec 2013.

warriors will always have the best landspeed.
this will not change.
would you all warrior haters kindly please stop asking for the impossible?
thank you.

Mesmers said that DE would never get nerfed guess what’s on the chopping block next.
They also said that illusionists celerity wouldn’t get nerfed. Guess what happened.
Thieves said their evades wouldn’t Be nerfed. They also said stealth wouldn’t be nerfed Revealed Got nerfed.
Eles didn’t think their healing would be nerfed and neither did guards
All classes have suffered nerfs that “would never” happen. And guess what they did. So stop trying to aimlessly say warriors won’t be nerfed

warriors have already been receiving various nerfs since 10 dec 2013. and before that as well.
but no, warrior haters kept on demanding for more blood.
them warrior haters will not stop until them warriors become free kills again.

will receive nerf to healing signet and long bow pin down as well.

just not “landspeed” so keep on dreaming them warrior haters.

the Nerf to healing SIG is a joke, pin down gets a cast time (like a lot of class) you can see, and Anet said they are going to buff the active on healing SIG.

Samhayn.2385:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

jportell.2197:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Samhayn.2385:

removing illusions would be like removing adrenaline from warriors, no one has asked for that. Your special mechanic is adrenalin not land speed, or the ability to almost ignore movement impairing effects, or the best passive healing, or the highest dps, or the highest hard cc (stun, knock backs, knock downs). So please stop playing at the game of everything you have is the definition of your class, its not and right now warriors are outside the balance spectrum and something needs to change. Warriors are too good at to many things and it seems the only people who don’t know this are warriors and devs.

btw, I think the real issue started at release when warriors started getting buffs and other classes ate nerfs. So even with nerfs the the warrior you still wouldn’t be in the same place as release because most classes are much different then we where back then.

do you know that warriors already got “best landspeed” during launch? just that during launch, they lack the sustain they have now, so no one bothered to say anything.

regarding nerfs, warriors have been receiving fair amount of nerfs since 10 dec 2013.

warriors will always have the best landspeed.
this will not change.
would you all warrior haters kindly please stop asking for the impossible?
thank you.

Mesmers said that DE would never get nerfed guess what’s on the chopping block next.
They also said that illusionists celerity wouldn’t get nerfed. Guess what happened.
Thieves said their evades wouldn’t Be nerfed. They also said stealth wouldn’t be nerfed Revealed Got nerfed.
Eles didn’t think their healing would be nerfed and neither did guards
All classes have suffered nerfs that “would never” happen. And guess what they did. So stop trying to aimlessly say warriors won’t be nerfed

warriors have already been receiving various nerfs since 10 dec 2013. and before that as well.
but no, warrior haters kept on demanding for more blood.
them warrior haters will not stop until them warriors become free kills again.

will receive nerf to healing signet and long bow pin down as well.

just not “landspeed” so keep on dreaming them warrior haters.

the Nerf to healing SIG is a joke, pin down gets a cast time (like a lot of class) you can see, and Anet said they are going to buff the active on healing SIG.

yes, because it was truly uncalled for as healing signet is fine as it is.

hopefully, the new active will be worth using.

fellyn.5083:

If we’re not debating their balance philosophies then why do you keep bringing it up? You seem to forget that you’re the one who was doing that and not me. You asked what I thought about it.

Honestly, I cannot believe I even need to explain this to you. It is very simple. We are not debating their balance philosophies, because they have already laid out the philosophies. Simply put, this thread is not about their balancing philosophies, but how the capabilities of the warrior appear in no way congruent to said philosophies. It seems extremely elementary that this even needs to be explained. Players did not come up with the philosophies. The devs did. If you have a problem with that, I guess you can pointlessly debate what their philosophies, but I hate to break it to you, we players cannot change it. What we can do, is point out the vast disparities between what their philosophies are, and what the professions capabilities are.

fellyn.5083:

And I do not remember ever mentioning my opinion on nerfs to other professions. But go on, keep assuming things and being wrong. You’re doing a good job at it so far.

My point exactly. You clearly have no idea what the other professions can do, or how they play. Thank you for pointing that out.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

unfortunately, there are also a lot casual warrior hater players who think warriors are overpowered, hence the upcoming healing signet shave and long bow pin down, both of which are totally uncalled for.

thank goodness healing signet is not completely neutered.

I am actually a warrior fan. You simply chose to personally attack anyone who presents an intelligent argument that contradicts you. It may help if you presented some form of intelligent counter argument.

Nice of you to point out how out of balance you feel the warrior profession is by pointing out the unnecessarily high amount of health regen they have access to, in comparison to other professions. You my friend, are certainly a fun person to discuss and debate with, because you so openly make my points for me, or expand on them way. Your efforts in that are much appreciated, thank you.

If you continue like this, the thread will get locked in no time.

Just sayin.
Cool down, guys.