Guild Wars 2

Actually, 2 meditation guards running together can use merciful intervention. I could see it actually being a viable comp too.

Warriors, adrenaline nerf op.

Warcry.1596:

Just a fun little debate. Obviously it’s all opinion and perspective. Let’s be respectful of others view points.

My thoughts:

1) Guardian
2) Ranger (NOTE: Guardian and Ranger in my opinion both received generous updates, was hard to pick a 1 and 2
3) Mesmer (mostly cuz Torment Autos)
4) Thief
5) Engineer
6) Necromancer
7) Warrior
8) Elementalist (Elite skills harshly punished, but Glyphs may be more fun now)

Again, these are my opinions, so don’t flame me or call me stupid or discuss my mothers sex life because your opinion differs from mine.

how is your mother’s sex life going on?

i don’t uderstand your point.

what means who won the skills bar?
Any sence? It must be BALANCE, to BALANCE classes to each other and not only 1 cheese build to another cheese build. For all game modes all together.

I really don’t understand what you asking from people and what are they answering.

saying “who won” must mean then – “who got the most buffs and less nerfs”? like this?

Its quite interesting and amusing to read people’s reactions to this. You can read a response and easily figure out where someone stands in this game, and sometimes even guess their skill level. The way people over estimate or underestimate a certain change is quite telling.

Funny thing, there has not really been a single patch in all the time I’ve been with Anet that I haven’t liked. If I were to pick one, it’d be nerfing keg farming way back in EotN, but even that was ultimately a positive. Happiness feels good man.

Kontrolle.3514:

From a WvW perspective

Rangers, the changes are just plain op.
necro, stability stomp every 7 seconds … sure
mesmers, enough said already
guardians, thats alot of hard buffs.
thiefs, because they remain pure cheese
ele, useless except that glyph changes
engineers, mostly useless changes except that awesome 2 s cripple on TK…
Warriors, the only real nerfs in this update

Betting 2000 gold this guy has never played thief!

Prince.7198:

Kontrolle.3514:

From a WvW perspective

Rangers, the changes are just plain op.
necro, stability stomp every 7 seconds … sure
mesmers, enough said already
guardians, thats alot of hard buffs.
thiefs, because they remain pure cheese
ele, useless except that glyph changes
engineers, mostly useless changes except that awesome 2 s cripple on TK…
Warriors, the only real nerfs in this update

Betting 2000 gold this guy has never played thief!

I don’t have that money anymore, they bugged my steal ; ;

Guardians “won” (if you want to turn it into a contest).

A class that given how well its performing in its field and how extremely popular it is. In particular in higher pvp brackets. It shouldve gotten a nerf to popular skills and traits, and buffs to underused skills and traits.
Which would be in line with Warrior and Thief, who saw exactly that. Nerfs to popular stuff, buffs to unpopular stuff. And both of these professions arent as popular as Guardians. Warriors may be a close second, but its still second.

And yet Guardian not only avoided the nerfhammer they really needed, but it even got buffed!

The buffs to ranger, mesmer and engineer are nice. But keep in mind these three professions are overall very poorly represented. Buffs were inevitable.
A Guardian is the exact opposite of “poorly represented”, and yet also garnered buffs.

I keep seeing you guys put engineer in the middle of your lists, but in my opinion, engineer won. Just add two more kits to our growing viable kits that can be build around list. Yes the tool kit was viable before but not as a main weapon and that 30% flamethrower buff is just what the pyromaniac ordered. When engineer wins, everyone else looses :P

Terrahero.9358:

Guardians “won” (if you want to turn it into a contest).

A class that given how well its performing in its field and how extremely popular it is. In particular in higher pvp brackets. It shouldve gotten a nerf to popular skills and traits, and buffs to underused skills and traits.
Which would be in line with Warrior and Thief, who saw exactly that. Nerfs to popular stuff, buffs to unpopular stuff. And both of these professions arent as popular as Guardians. Warriors may be a close second, but its still second.

And yet Guardian not only avoided the nerfhammer they really needed, but it even got buffed!

The buffs to ranger, mesmer and engineer are nice. But keep in mind these three professions are overall very poorly represented. Buffs were inevitable.
A Guardian is the exact opposite of “poorly represented”, and yet also garnered buffs.

you don’t nerf something because it’s popular. you nerf it because it’s out of line. pushing people out of meta because they’re “too popular” is ridiculous.

guardian does what they do well, but i don’t think anyone considers them OP. OP stuff gets nerfed, not effective stuff.

Many people consider the meditation build to be op. And this is GW2 where broken things stay in meta for 6+ months at a minimum.

Atherakhia.4086:

Many people consider the meditation build to be op. And this is GW2 where broken things stay in meta for 6+ months at a minimum.

As a medi guard main, I promise you that it’s really not. If you think it’s overpowered, then you’re not looking hard enough for ways to counter it.

BrunoBRS.5178:

you don’t nerf something because it’s popular. you nerf it because it’s out of line. pushing people out of meta because they’re “too popular” is ridiculous.

guardian does what they do well, but i don’t think anyone considers them OP. OP stuff gets nerfed, not effective stuff.

So when competitive pvp teams use mostly thieves for their roaming, that means thief is pushing other professions out of the meta and this warrents a nerf.
But when competitive pvp teams use guardians kitten near exclusively as a bunker, thats just being effective and totally fine?

Mighty selective phrasing. So thieves fault is not pushing other professions enough out of the meta, because if they did they too would just be labeled as effective and totally fine?

Terrahero.9358:

BrunoBRS.5178:

you don’t nerf something because it’s popular. you nerf it because it’s out of line. pushing people out of meta because they’re “too popular” is ridiculous.

guardian does what they do well, but i don’t think anyone considers them OP. OP stuff gets nerfed, not effective stuff.

So when competitive pvp teams use mostly thieves for their roaming, that means thief is pushing other professions out of the meta and this warrents a nerf.
But when competitive pvp teams use guardians kitten near exclusively as a bunker, thats just being effective and totally fine?

Mighty selective phrasing. So thieves fault is not pushing other professions enough out of the meta, because if they did they too would just be labeled as effective and totally fine?

“Hi, i’m Terrahero and i put words on other people’s mouths”.

the devs have a clear outline of what they consider balanced. they don’t let the general public see it often, but it’s there.

guardian isn’t the only viable bunker, believe it or not. but guardian is right now the only class that manages to bunker/support really well, and it’s not because it’s too strong at it, it’s because everyone else is too weak.

so no, guards shouldn’t have their bunker/support nerfed, because they’re on what devs consider a sweetspot. what needs to happen is other support/bunker builds in other professions getting brought in line with the “guardian standard”.

otherwise all you’re doing is making guard players reroll because “eh, you’ve been there long enough, time to get pushed out of meta like everyone else”.

there’s a reason that 90% of the time, guardian patch notes are extremely boring and without any interesting changes: because they’re in a good spot. they’re not too strong, but they’re not underpowered either. ideally, all professions would be like guardians, balance-wise. screwing up their profession so that other subpar specs can try (and fail) to thrive is not the solution, and it’s not balance.

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

Many people consider the meditation build to be op. And this is GW2 where broken things stay in meta for 6+ months at a minimum.

As a medi guard main, I promise you that it’s really not. If you think it’s overpowered, then you’re not looking hard enough for ways to counter it.

countering medi guard: sneeze hard enough.

seriously, medi guard has pitiful defenses. yeah, it has a crapton of heals, but you can’t heal when you’re dead. just don’t try to win a battle of sustain with one, and burst that guy down. not like they have mobility either, so they’re awfully vulnerable to focus damage.

Thieves lost 15chars

blakdoxa.7520:

I think this should be reserved for after the changes come into effect.

I assure you…things will not be as you thought….

I think he is the most right out there!

Well but who won?
It’s hard to say because every classe have it’s share of interesting stuf. But, I’d say guards!

1)- Guards : With just the change to renewed focus they win over every other classes. Right now we see almost only meditation guards do they really need this? Changes to enchanted weapon won’t affect anything.

2)- Mesmers : Most of the changes that are done were needed exept for scepter 1. They really should have fill the clone auto attack with a non damaging condition instead of torment. Weakness on scepter 1-1 then torment on scepter 1-2 would have tuned this perfectly.

3)- Rangers : This changes are interesting. Signet on rangers will be really powerfull. I still feel it’s dumb to add another LB trait in marksmanship because LB is already the most used weapon. Beastmastery, I guess it’s finally a step in the right direction.

4)- Engineers : Some needed changes on useless kit and some new condi cleanses mean. That’s what engi wanted!

5)- Necromancer : I put him here because this patch will give necromancers tons of qualitie of life. Condimancer will hate Lich form change thought and vampiric signets change is almost insulting but everything else will grant a lotta survivability and a bit more damage.

6)- Elementalist : Nerfing elite abuse and buffing in where everyone say that elementalist lack : condition damages. I really think the job here is perfectly done. Though it will only benefit to PvPers because condi damage are still useless in PvE.

7)- warriors : I really feel everyone is overestimating the adrenaline nerf. Losing adre on a F1 miss? This should have been the case from the start of the game. losing adre while out of combat? Geez that already the case who care? However I feel most of the change on warrior skills and trait are in the wrong direction and adress none of the real issue. But well let’s see.

8)- Thieves : Don’t get me wrong, i don’t feel that they hurt thieves in this patch. It’s more that they try to do needed things. Venoms and trap (well trap ain’t buffed but they need some work) really need to be brought on par with all the other thieves utilities. I see what’s done as a step in this direction. However all the changes on thieves feel really underwhelming after seeing the changes on let’s say… guards and rangers…

Overall most of the changes that are announced (I wait for the other changes, the one that will really hurt a lot and that they don’t speak off) are well though and answer to the community about issue on the classes. (The change on renewed focus ain’t supported by my “most” )

Saying the guard medi build is OP is funny to me. I never worry about guardians in my build construction. If they are good, they will be a challenge, if they are bad they won’t. Medi guard imho is fine as is (we’ll see how the buffs apply after patch) and this should be the balance all professions should be a part of. For medi guards skill, not build, wins.

elementalist won
y’know because being junk for two years is mathematically improbable that they’d remain junk for even longer… right?
and no, i haven’t seen elementalist dominating anywhere in this game.. i do however see them more than occasionally being massacred or redundant in game modes because very loud players tend to baselessly patronize them as top notch

2/0/6/0/6 use the bewildering ambush, venom share, venomous strength and leeching venoms with devourer venom, skale venom, and SR. You can get like 2600 condition damage in this build if you really wanted. You also make it sound like the 300 points in your trait lines dictates your whole build :P.

Volrath.1473:

Rocketmist.5436:

Lol you kidding me, you can easily make a stupidly hard hitting p/d build with venom share pretty easily. 5000 damage in bleeds bouncing around out of stealth attack sounds pretty nice especially now at 1050 range.

sorry but you are wrong, condition dmg trait line for thieves is called Trickery, if you want to spec venom share you need to go 6 into Deadly Arts and 6 into Shadow Arts which leaves 2 points left. good luck spreading out 5k bleeding dmg with a POWER build…

Hvaran.6327:

Warcry.1596:

Just a fun little debate. Obviously it’s all opinion and perspective. Let’s be respectful of others view points.

My thoughts:

1) Guardian
2) Ranger (NOTE: Guardian and Ranger in my opinion both received generous updates, was hard to pick a 1 and 2
3) Mesmer (mostly cuz Torment Autos)
4) Thief
5) Engineer
6) Necromancer
7) Warrior
8) Elementalist (Elite skills harshly punished, but Glyphs may be more fun now)

Again, these are my opinions, so don’t flame me or call me stupid or discuss my mothers sex life because your opinion differs from mine.

how is your mother’s sex life going on?

i don’t uderstand your point.

what means who won the skills bar?
Any sence? It must be BALANCE, to BALANCE classes to each other and not only 1 cheese build to another cheese build. For all game modes all together.

I really don’t understand what you asking from people and what are they answering.

saying “who won” must mean then – “who got the most buffs and less nerfs”? like this?

Simply, which profession received the most generous update, and which received the most punishing nerfs, in your opinion.

Warcry.1596:

Simply, which profession received the most generous update, and which received the most punishing nerfs, in your opinion.

if i would care about few classes i would cry about my favorite or the one i best know and the one is hardest coutners for me.

The point is i care about overall gameplay so you can roll a class, be versatill in it’s builds and win another guy or loose because somebody had better reaction/skills/teamwork. O

I see the changes balanced overall to each other. But mostly i see that changes are very slight and not shifting the game as it could.

What game modes i care the most is pvp/wvw/gvg.

OVerall i would put guardian and ranger on first place, because they lost nothing and got slight buffs.

But futher i don’t want to continue the list, because for- ex-le warriors got nerfed a bit? Yes. Did they got balanced or just became useless. I say more balanced.

You see, i don’t like this thread not because of discussion. It’s good and i’m totally up for it. But i denie to divide things on buffs and nerfs. It’s balance patch. And if it make game modes that i prefer more balanced i call it buff for game, if it causes unbalanced, unskilled and unversatile game play i call it game nerff.

Maybe i’m out of space with this statements, but conversation about balance should not go in this flow.

cheshirefox.7026:

elementalist won
y’know because being junk for two years is mathematically improbable that they’d remain junk for even longer… right?

Yeah man, definitely aren’t any Eles in PvE. And we’ve never had a meta that was dominated by elementalists so hard that people would jokingly point to whichever team had the most eles as the winners. Right? Oh wait.

I like how most people saying Mesmers are in the top 3 blatantly ignore the fact that PU and clone death got nerfed in addition to IE and Warden not being showcased as fixed (yes, stated, but that doesn’t really mean much when they’ve both been “fixed” in more than a few patches, INCLUDING THE LAST FEATURE PACK).

Sure, Torment is sweet, but if you have all 3 Scepter clones out and are spamming Scepter 1, you’re applying Torment and not much else. With Scepter you’re most likely going to be applying Torment and Confusion, with bleeds off of illusions, meaning that you only have access to 3 conditions (4 if you count a long cd blind). As soon as you weapon swap or spawn another phantasm/illusion, you no longer have the “omglolop4sceptertorments” going on.

It’s really not THAT strong. If IE is fixed, that’s a much, much, much bigger buff than the Torment addition will ever be.

IE vs Torment:
Each clone can add bleed on crit (assuming Sharper Images).
1 Staff Clone will apply:
Up to 2 stacks of bleed and 2 stacks of (pick one) vuln/bleed/burn to a single target. (May apply half to secondary target or apply boons to ally.)
1 Scepter Clone will apply:
Up to 1 stack of bleed and torment to a single target.

Hmmmm… HMMM… HMMMMMMM… I wonder which one is blatantly stronger than the other.

The winners:
Ranger, Engi, and Guardian

The losers:
Thief

Everyone else is in the middle.

I’m really surprised to see so many people thinking guardian changes “won.” So they made Med guardian stronger, a spec barely 15% of the guardian population uses. People aren’t running med guard in pve, and they certainly aren’t running them in large scale WvW, unless to troll people. Most team PvP uses bunker guard AH not med guard.

The spirit weapon changes probably aren’t going to amount to much if anything, cuz the traits u need to make them usable are spread out everywhere. We shall see on this one…

People still wont use tomes

I mean, I guess they didn’t get nerfed, so I see how that’s a win in a way, but really, the guardian changes aren’t really changing much.

Ranger definitely “won” but most people don’t care cuz they don’t see ranger as a threat, and ranger isn’t even on most peoples radars.

Thief and Warrior definitely lost

Zatoichi.1049:

I’m really surprised to see so many people thinking guardian changes “won.” So they made Med guardian stronger, a spec barely 15% of the guardian population uses. People aren’t running med guard in pve, and they certainly aren’t running them in large scale WvW, unless to troll people. Most team PvP uses bunker guard AH not med guard.

The spirit weapon changes probably aren’t going to amount to much if anything, cuz the traits u need to make them usable are spread out everywhere. We shall see on this one…

People still wont use tomes

I mean, I guess they didn’t get nerfed, so I see how that’s a win in a way, but really, the guardian changes aren’t really changing much.

Ranger definitely “won” but most people don’t care cuz they don’t see ranger as a threat, and ranger isn’t even on most peoples radars.

Thief and Warrior definitely lost

Agreed. When they said they were going to buff tomes and offensive guardians, I was expecting like, actual buffs. Not just one good thing and a bunch of changes for useless skills that don’t make them any less useless.

style.6173:

The winners:
Ranger, Engi, and Guardian

The losers:
Thief

Everyone else is in the middle.

Why must the truth hurt so much!

I’d put Mesmer at the top over guardian tbh, they got a lot of nice bug fixes (could be more that hasn’t been posted yet) along with some moderate attention to their traits. I don’t agree with all of it but they did get some good attention in comparison to “everyone else” and thief.

NinjaEd.3946:

style.6173:

The winners:
Ranger, Engi, and Guardian

The losers:
Thief

Everyone else is in the middle.

Why must the truth hurt so much!

I’d put Mesmer at the top over guardian tbh, they got a lot of nice bug fixes (could be more that hasn’t been posted yet) along with some moderate attention to their traits. I don’t agree with all of it but they did get some good attention in comparison to “everyone else” and thief.

And then they got nerfed in the Guardian/Necro Skill Bar. Woooooo~ runs around naked