Guild Wars 2

Cogbyrn.7283:

Flytrap.8075:

Now, guess what? Condition removal is finite. You can always dodge a backstab. You can always block a warrior’s burst skill. Simply put, there are a lot of things that you can do to outplay a power build. However, with conditions, if your condition removal is on cooldown and they’re reapplied to you during that duration, you’re generally kittened.

You can always dodge a Backstab? You always have enough Endurance, and you can watch its telegraph to dodge its animation? You always dodge the second Backstab that follows after the first misses?

You can always block a Warrior’s burst? Your blocks are always off of cooldown, so you can just always get the block off?

Oh, but with conditions, we’re analyzing when all of your condition removal is down. Never mind when you’re out of Endurance/Block/Evasion/Invuln, you can always counter Power damage, but Condi, when removal is down, you apparently can’t dodge/block/evade/blind/invuln their application.

Here, I’m going to give you an argument to use: with condition application, the pressure is spread out so evenly that the effectiveness of your dodge is minimized. With Power, damage is often front-loaded onto an ability or two that, if you dodge, can help swing a fight in your favor. If you dodge/block some condition application, you’re still probably taking some pressure. If you dodge power pressure, you’re probably taking minimal (depending).

Use that, please. Say that you can’t dodge the 5 stacks of interrupt confusion from Perplex runes because, by its definition, they have to interrupt one of your actions.

But don’t act like you can’t avoid condition application in every single way that you can avoid power application.

I already edited my post to more accurately give my argument, but you quoted my original post and jumped the gun.

How long does it take for your endurance bar to refill for a dodge?

Now, how long does it take for your condition removal via a weapon or utility skill to come off cooldown? Even then, how many conditions are removed? Were the conditions that were actually hampering you removed, or just the ones that were most recently applied?

Even if I dodge a Necro’s Signet of Spite, they still can just auto-attack me with their Scepter chain and start piling on bleed stacks and poison. If I dodge a Thief’s backstab, I can rest assured that I have a few seconds until their burst is available again and I still have another dodge open to me.

The fact of the matter is that every build has to invest in certain key aspects in order to survive against condition builds, whereas people who use condition builds simply have to learn to play and then they can handle any power builds.

Come at me.

Flytrap.8075:

How long does it take for your endurance bar to refill for a dodge?

Now, how long does it take for your condition removal via a weapon or utility skill to come off cooldown?

Only, that dodge works against the condition, too.
At this point you’re looking at one mechanic working against power attack, and that and another working against conditions.

That’s ignoring that during the time a condition deals damage your skills recycle, allowing you more chances to heal yourself or escape further damage.

And? I mean I give you that conditions are very strong, but they’re not difficult to avoid (much easier than direct damage in fact) and they’re not unfairly powerful.
So, why are they still more dangerous to the average player, by a significant margin? Isn’t that the much more crucial question?

make it so dodges can dodge the condition damage. end of debate right?

FranzM.1298:

make it so dodges can dodge the condition damage. end of debate right?

They… do?
Have you ever tried dodging? At all?

Carighan.6758:

Flytrap.8075:

How long does it take for your endurance bar to refill for a dodge?

Now, how long does it take for your condition removal via a weapon or utility skill to come off cooldown?

Only, that dodge works against the condition, too.

I never said that it didn’t. I pointed out in my last post that you can dodge Signet of Spite, however, the issue with that is that condition builds are very spammy in nature and have a lot of ways to apply more conditions to you.

Yes, I dodged Signet of Spite. Now what? I still have to deal with Necro spamming their bleed/poison attack chain on me. I still have to deal with the conditions they can apply through Deathshroud. I still have to deal with conditions they can apply through their other weapon skills.

At least when I dodge a backstab or a warrior burst skill, it actually means something. When you dodge a power build’s key ability, you outplayed them and they know it. When you dodge against a condition build, they just go along with it and apply more conditions.

Flytrap.8075:

I never said that it didn’t. I pointed out in my last post that you can dodge Signet of Spite, however, the issue with that is that condition builds are very spammy in nature and have a lot of ways to apply more conditions to you.

What I agree on is that we have conditions which are:

• Individually too weak.
• Too many.

However do keep in mind that someone primarily utilizing direct damage is “spamming” direct attacks constantly, too. This is no different from say a Necro spamming his condition-applying auto-attack.

Carighan.6758:

Flytrap.8075:

I never said that it didn’t. I pointed out in my last post that you can dodge Signet of Spite, however, the issue with that is that condition builds are very spammy in nature and have a lot of ways to apply more conditions to you.

What I agree on is that we have conditions which are:

• Individually too weak.
• Too many.

However do keep in mind that someone primarily utilizing direct damage is “spamming” direct attacks constantly, too. This is no different from say a Necro spamming his condition-applying auto-attack.

When a thief is killing you, is it his 1k auto-attacks that are the real issue, or the 8k backstab that you took?

I mean, I get where you’re coming from; I’ve been hit by 4-5k longbow autos from a zerker Ranger before. However, in order for them to reach that point, they had to go full-glass and will obviously melt if you ever connect with them.

For most condition builds, this is simply not the case.

Hi everyone,

Since we already have a discussion about conditions here, we’ll now close this one in order to avoid duplicates.

Thank you for your understanding.