Guild Wars 2

or at least make it take more skill to play, too easy to regen and reset in WvW. fine in spvp

I get it because no one uses it in sPvP LOL

so how would you stop someone from resetting fights and regen in stealth

Alphabet.7392:

so how would you stop someone from resetting fights and regen in stealth

Do you honestly think a thief will regen to near full from shadows rejuvenation alone? Most of the time it’s goal seems to be to mitigate the conditions ticking away at me. Contrary to popular belief, shadows rejuvenation ISNT that strong in terms of healing power. As said in an earlier thread, a full shadow refuge with shadow rejuvenation should bring a non healing gear thief (99.9999999998% of them) to around half health, and that’s with 15 seconds! Fif-teen, unhindered, un condition harassed seconds! Any damaging condition, even if it’s not poison will keep that regen from working to it’s fullest. As for stopping a thief from stealthing, I’ll let you know how to so that when you tell me how to stop a Mesmer from cloning, or how to stop a ranger from using pets, or a guardian from passively healing ( sorry to those who wanted me to mention their profession but were let down)

RedSpectrum.1975:

Alphabet.7392:

Zord.6130:

Bad OP is bad.
(<—- not a SA user).

so how would you stop someone from resetting fights and regen in stealth

Do you honestly think a thief will regen to near full from shadows rejuvenation alone? Most of the time it’s goal seems to be to mitigate the conditions ticking away at me. Contrary to popular belief, shadows rejuvenation ISNT that strong in terms of healing power. As said in an earlier thread, a full shadow refuge with shadow rejuvenation should bring a non healing gear thief (99.9999999998% of them) to around half health, and that’s with 15 seconds! Fif-teen, unhindered, un condition harassed seconds! Any condition, even if it’s not poison will keep that regen from working to it’s fullest. As for stopping a thief from stealthing, I’ll let you know how to so that when you tell me how to stop a Mesmer from cloning, or how to stop a ranger from using pets, or a guardian from passively healing ( sorry to those who wanted me to mention their profession but were let down)

fight reset also nowhere i say that thief regen to full

If you are losing a fight, you should not be able to reset. You should just die.

Alphabet.7392:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Alphabet.7392:

Zord.6130:

Bad OP is bad.
(<—- not a SA user).

so how would you stop someone from resetting fights and regen in stealth

Do you honestly think a thief will regen to near full from shadows rejuvenation alone? Most of the time it’s goal seems to be to mitigate the conditions ticking away at me. Contrary to popular belief, shadows rejuvenation ISNT that strong in terms of healing power. As said in an earlier thread, a full shadow refuge with shadow rejuvenation should bring a non healing gear thief (99.9999999998% of them) to around half health, and that’s with 15 seconds! Fif-teen, unhindered, un condition harassed seconds! Any condition, even if it’s not poison will keep that regen from working to it’s fullest. As for stopping a thief from stealthing, I’ll let you know how to so that when you tell me how to stop a Mesmer from cloning, or how to stop a ranger from using pets, or a guardian from passively healing ( sorry to those who wanted me to mention their profession but were let down)

fight reset also nowhere i say that thief regen to full

Okay, tell me the steps needed for a thief to reset a fight, I’ll be impressed if stealth isn’t one of them, then tell me the steps needed to shadow rejuvenation to be activated, once again, if stealth isn’t one of those steps I’ll be impressed. And you’re right, you didn’t, so pardon my asking, why is it a big deal then? There are TONS of passive healing on other classes, guardians can’t get rid of it practically, so why single out thief?

RedSpectrum.1975:

Alphabet.7392:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Alphabet.7392:

Zord.6130:

Bad OP is bad.
(<—- not a SA user).

so how would you stop someone from resetting fights and regen in stealth

Do you honestly think a thief will regen to near full from shadows rejuvenation alone? Most of the time it’s goal seems to be to mitigate the conditions ticking away at me. Contrary to popular belief, shadows rejuvenation ISNT that strong in terms of healing power. As said in an earlier thread, a full shadow refuge with shadow rejuvenation should bring a non healing gear thief (99.9999999998% of them) to around half health, and that’s with 15 seconds! Fif-teen, unhindered, un condition harassed seconds! Any condition, even if it’s not poison will keep that regen from working to it’s fullest. As for stopping a thief from stealthing, I’ll let you know how to so that when you tell me how to stop a Mesmer from cloning, or how to stop a ranger from using pets, or a guardian from passively healing ( sorry to those who wanted me to mention their profession but were let down)

fight reset also nowhere i say that thief regen to full

Okay, tell me the steps needed for a thief to reset a fight, I’ll be impressed if stealth isn’t one of them, then tell me the steps needed to shadow rejuvenation to be activated, once again, if stealth isn’t one of those steps I’ll be impressed. And you’re right, you didn’t, so pardon my asking, why is it a big deal then? There are TONS of passive healing on other classes, guardians can’t get rid of it practically, so why single out thief?

That’s just it, stealth is broken. How can a game be marketed as skill based, allowing you to dodge based on animations, but still have stealth be a big part of the game? You can’t see their animations, so you have to get lucky with dodges. Also, no other class except for warrior has the reset potential of a thief. Obviously there are passive heals on other classes, but none of them do it while stealthed to the degree that thieves do. Maybe it’s not a lot in numbers, but you also gain a lot of damage mitigation from blinds. Conditions do not stick on thieves if they run shadow arts either.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Okay, tell me the steps needed for a thief to reset a fight,…

Get far away from their opponent(s) – far enough to go out-of-combat and regenerate health. Then wait for utilities to come off cool-down. Works like that for everyone, I thought this would be common knowledge by now.

Alphabet.7392:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Alphabet.7392:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Alphabet.7392:

Zord.6130:

Bad OP is bad.
(<—- not a SA user).

so how would you stop someone from resetting fights and regen in stealth

Do you honestly think a thief will regen to near full from shadows rejuvenation alone? Most of the time it’s goal seems to be to mitigate the conditions ticking away at me. Contrary to popular belief, shadows rejuvenation ISNT that strong in terms of healing power. As said in an earlier thread, a full shadow refuge with shadow rejuvenation should bring a non healing gear thief (99.9999999998% of them) to around half health, and that’s with 15 seconds! Fif-teen, unhindered, un condition harassed seconds! Any condition, even if it’s not poison will keep that regen from working to it’s fullest. As for stopping a thief from stealthing, I’ll let you know how to so that when you tell me how to stop a Mesmer from cloning, or how to stop a ranger from using pets, or a guardian from passively healing ( sorry to those who wanted me to mention their profession but were let down)

fight reset also nowhere i say that thief regen to full

Okay, tell me the steps needed for a thief to reset a fight, I’ll be impressed if stealth isn’t one of them, then tell me the steps needed to shadow rejuvenation to be activated, once again, if stealth isn’t one of those steps I’ll be impressed. And you’re right, you didn’t, so pardon my asking, why is it a big deal then? There are TONS of passive healing on other classes, guardians can’t get rid of it practically, so why single out thief?

That’s just it, stealth is broken. How can a game be marketed as skill based, allowing you to dodge based on animations, but still have stealth be a big part of the game? You can’t see their animations, so you have to get lucky with dodges. Also, no other class except for warrior has the reset potential of a thief. Obviously there are passive heals on other classes, but none of them do it while stealthed to the degree that thieves do. Maybe it’s not a lot in numbers, but you also gain a lot of damage mitigation from blinds. Conditions do not stick on thieves if they run shadow arts either.

So what’s the problem now is it still fight resetting is it regen? Blinds? So you aren’t complaining about shadow arts you’re complaining about stealth period?
And your right, other classes don’t passively heal while stealthed, which mean they heal all of the time , once again, guardian- I may be wrong but I think it heals more too. And as for conditions not sticking, shadows embrace cures one condition an then another after three seconds, standard stealth lasts for four. If you’re a condition build you’d be applying more conditions than they can shed, power build and you’d be doing more damage then shad rejuvenation can heal(a if it were a stand alone heal anyway). As for resetting, it depends in the game mode, sPvP then it’s a win, you scared them away to take a point, wvw you bought yourself time to run or recuperate, I mean, if you made them run once, in theory, you could do it again
@frans so wait you’re telling me all you need to do is gain distance? All I need is a skill that gains distance like swoop or RTL or a warrior combo? Even necromancers can juke, so once again why are thieves single out

RedSpectrum.1975:

Alphabet.7392:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Alphabet.7392:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Alphabet.7392:

Zord.6130:

Bad OP is bad.
(<—- not a SA user).

so how would you stop someone from resetting fights and regen in stealth

Do you honestly think a thief will regen to near full from shadows rejuvenation alone? Most of the time it’s goal seems to be to mitigate the conditions ticking away at me. Contrary to popular belief, shadows rejuvenation ISNT that strong in terms of healing power. As said in an earlier thread, a full shadow refuge with shadow rejuvenation should bring a non healing gear thief (99.9999999998% of them) to around half health, and that’s with 15 seconds! Fif-teen, unhindered, un condition harassed seconds! Any condition, even if it’s not poison will keep that regen from working to it’s fullest. As for stopping a thief from stealthing, I’ll let you know how to so that when you tell me how to stop a Mesmer from cloning, or how to stop a ranger from using pets, or a guardian from passively healing ( sorry to those who wanted me to mention their profession but were let down)

fight reset also nowhere i say that thief regen to full

Okay, tell me the steps needed for a thief to reset a fight, I’ll be impressed if stealth isn’t one of them, then tell me the steps needed to shadow rejuvenation to be activated, once again, if stealth isn’t one of those steps I’ll be impressed. And you’re right, you didn’t, so pardon my asking, why is it a big deal then? There are TONS of passive healing on other classes, guardians can’t get rid of it practically, so why single out thief?

That’s just it, stealth is broken. How can a game be marketed as skill based, allowing you to dodge based on animations, but still have stealth be a big part of the game? You can’t see their animations, so you have to get lucky with dodges. Also, no other class except for warrior has the reset potential of a thief. Obviously there are passive heals on other classes, but none of them do it while stealthed to the degree that thieves do. Maybe it’s not a lot in numbers, but you also gain a lot of damage mitigation from blinds. Conditions do not stick on thieves if they run shadow arts either.

So what’s the problem now is it still fight resetting is it regen? Blinds? So you aren’t complaining about shadow arts you’re complaining about stealth period?
And your right, other classes don’t passively heal while stealthed, which mean they heal all of the time , once again, guardian- I may be wrong but I think it heals more too. And as for conditions not sticking, shadows embrace cures one condition an then another after three seconds, standard stealth lasts for four. If you’re a condition build you’d be applying more conditions than they can shed, power build and you’d be doing more damage then shad rejuvenation can heal(a if it were a stand alone heal anyway). As for resetting, it depends in the game mode, sPvP then it’s a win, you scared them away to take a point, wvw you bought yourself time to run or recuperate, I mean, if you made them run once, in theory, you could do it again

The thing I’m complaining about now is a mix of all 3: shadow arts which leads into stealth and has blinds. Conditions don’t stick because you have other condi cleanses too: sword #2 and shadowstep. The damage mitigation is too high for the amount of damage this build offers. True, the same can be said for some condition builds, but condi builds have more counters than constant blinds, stealth and regen.

kitten teefs, so OP! They can get out of fights if they want…like Rangers…or Eles…or Guards, Mesmers and Warrs (with Warrs being able to decide whether to stop and snuff out the life of their exhausted pursuers, that’s hilarious).

And the next fool -.-

SA is no problem, it is stealth.
It’s a problem, because the whole class and their survibality is build around this bad designed stealth mechanic and this make them too weak for builds without stealth or against players who can easily counter this.

Alphabet.7392:

so how would you stop someone from resetting fights and regen in stealth

I wouldn’t be wasting my time looking for them especially when roaming. Roaming is the most profitable place for thief to be, you can’t be upset that they cling to it. They don’t do well in zergs, they are barely of any use in havoc squads, they are a generally selfish profession. Even in wvw I don’t use SA for anything more than shadow’s embrace, but if you want to nerf SA then I want to nerf the Defense and virtues trait line for the heavy professions. If you don’t want us roaming why should you be able to help out in a blob?

NinjaEd.3946:

I wouldn’t be wasting my time looking for them especially when roaming. Roaming is the most profitable place for thief to be, you can’t be upset that they cling to it. They don’t do well in zergs, they are barely of any use in havoc squads, they are a generally selfish profession. Even in wvw I don’t use SA for anything more than shadow’s embrace, but if you want to nerf SA then I want to nerf the Defense and virtues trait line for the heavy professions. If you don’t want us roaming why should you be able to help out in a blob?

This.

Thieves doesn’t have any huge channeled AoE hitting for 7k each tick like staff ele.
Nor do they have the defence, control and support as Warriors and Guardians. You might be able to tag on more enemies than other classes by using daggerstorm and choking gas and some slow clusterbombs, but you never do any AoE damage close to what a staff ele can do, this again shows what a selfish class thief is.

And all classes can make roaming builds that prove challenging for a thief to fight depending on the thiefs build (for instance warriors axe mainhand is tricky to fight against with any SA thief melee build while it’s a joke for P/D builds), this while everything a thief can do in large scale pvp other classes can do better, one good example is thieves can’t even stealth a zerg while it’s np for a mesmer.

One other class I find pretty much in the same position as thieves is engineer, while thief is more mobile and has better escapeability, engineers are better at fighting in open combat and will often kitten thieves up, while they also don’t do much good in large scale pvp.

Hey nerf a whole trait line because I don’t like it. Seriously where is the logic!

Honestly if I’m solo roaming and encounter a Thief that’s willing to sit in stealth for 15 seconds to regen health, I’m probably just going to create as much space as possible when I see his Love Shack go down to actually reset the fight and get my own health back.

Or just jump in some water.

Sevans.4619:

Or just jump in some water.

This is so diabolical, thieves hate water.

Dear OP,

Kill faster.

<3, thief community

RedSpectrum.1975:

Sevans.4619:

Or just jump in some water.

This is so diabolical, thieves hate water.

We do? <flashes venomous grin>

:)

Pistol offhand is a lot worse than SA thieves. Blindspam is much more frustrating and difficult to deal with than the regen and condi cleanse.

If people think stealth has no counterplay, please, I invite you to play a thief. Stealth attacks are SO predictable and choreographed. Fighting D/x? Dodge on when they would be next to you based upon their previous position and their active signets, if any. They’ll be hitting you either at the way end of stealth or as soon as they’d get to you. Dodge at the right time based upon distance, spin the camera the other way, and you’ve now either totally mitigated their damage or cut it in half and left them either open to CC or revealed.

For talk about how the game is skill-intensive and how stealth as a mechanic inhibits this, whoever said this really needs to L2P and actually refine their skills both as a thief and against thieves in order to understand how this class plays out and how to counterplay it.

Blindspam is by far more of a culprit in regards to no counterplay, especially since it lasts so long with such an easy application and prevents quick retaliation by the player against the thief. While I’m a strong advocate for thieves, I think blind as a conditon needs some adjustments, and ease of application needs some nerfs.

I’d also like to see some changes to prevent stealth-chaining, and the mega-torment-stacking that P/D thief can get, mostly by making torment in general easier to cleanse by all classes, including thieves.

Stealth spike builds, however, and this is coming from a D/D ultimate-burst-damage thief main, do not need such nerfs, for they simply destroy bad players and people not expecting them, and that’s about all they do and can do.

Full SA thief not even viable in current tpvp and Spvp. When you compare thiefs healing to other classes its much worse. So no Op l2p.

a t s e.9614:

Shadow arts is a trait line for new thief players , once you understand class mechanics you will see that its not that useful and trickery/ acrobat are much stronger trait lines.

I agree it can be annoying in wvw because people can troll you with perma stealth and CnD.

I disagree 1000% as far as the “new thief players” goes. I have played D/D thief since game release and I main D/D thief to this day, and that entire time I have always loved SA. It doesn’t make you a bad player for using a strong trait line (strong being that is provides heavy hp regen, condi clear, and blind on stealth [to counter builds like hammer regen warrior]). If anything, it makes you a bad player for NOT using a strong trait line, but that’s a totally different conversation. Trait line is preference, and I personally prefer Shadow Arts. Its easily countered (Sick ‘Em is a big one) because if you know anything about thief you will be able to dodge the big full arm spam 1000 second cast time swing that is Cloak and Dagger. Shadow Arts isn’t invincible, you just need to know how to counter it. Getting back to the quoted user’s comment, SA is an easy trait line to start off with, sure, but once you have master the mechanics of a thief, if you know them well enough, you can use the Shadow Arts trait line to be a really solid player. Personally, I enjoy outnumbered fights and the sheer utility that Shadow Arts brings (mostly the condi clear and blind on stealth) can be borderline abused to win those fights :P Why give that up for “stronger trait lines” which don’t offer nearly as beneficial traits?

^This is all referring to WvW… I don’t know much about thief sPvP or tPvP

We are beating a dead horse so I am going to call it…

THIS IS NOW A (nerf) SPIDERMAN THREAD.

Wait im confused is this still a nerf SA thread or a nerf Spiderman thread…I mean I’m sure Venom and or Carnage would agree….