Guild Wars 2

its not fair that we need to trait heavily into soul reaping for 3 sec of stability of which at least 1 second is pointless because of the time it takes to cast then exit deathshroud ….

technically with ds flashing we can have the most stability uptime of all classes but for what cost?. our only defence goes onto a cooldown making the entire process pointless.

high health does not equal good sustain without some form of cc that isn’t blocked most of the time by other classes with abundant acess to stability especially with the numbers that can be reached by some professions -.-

putting it on signet of the locust takes away one of out utilities and sacrifices speed for stability I don’t see how that is not balanced

after reading some of the replies I would like to know why say 5 seconds of stability on a 30 second? cooldown (need to check that) is extremely overpowered for a necro….

also to clear some misunderstandings I want the passive on the signet to stay the same but the active to be a duration of stability

this is mainly for pvp….. happy?

LOL

Enough said…

I see you don’t play necro in spvp

It needs a stun break, not stability.

I think that’s what OP really wants anyways.

But the basic point still remains that Necromancers are immobile with no leaps and little swiftness on weapons, but can’t really take mobility from slot skills either because stun breaks are too valuable.

I think they are tanky enough as is.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

I think they are tanky enough as is.

Yes, there are tanky, but are they tanky while performing activities? the problem is that they are both slow and highly prone to CC, giving them instances where they literally do nothing but waste space. Eles can be tanky also but the thing is that they atleast have armor of earth to fall back on if needed and mobility so they can keep functioning.

The class needs work, and its either mobility or some way to deal with intense CC. Right now they’re weakness is obvious and highly exploitable across builds.

They are tanky while performing activities. Life siphon, deaths shroud etc.

In addition, with condi builds they are doing damage while stunned or Cc’d.

And there is a well for power builds that grants stability and I think breaks stun too.

Loyo.8526:

MercilessLemurs.7459:

I think they are tanky enough as is.

Yes, there are tanky, but are they tanky while performing activities? the problem is that they are both slow and highly prone to CC, giving them instances where they literally do nothing but waste space. Eles can be tanky also but the thing is that they atleast have armor of earth to fall back on if needed and mobility so they can keep functioning.

The class needs work, and its either mobility or some way to deal with intense CC. Right now they’re weakness is obvious and highly exploitable across builds.

Umm I’m not sure if an ele’s “tankiness” can be compared to a necro’s survivability.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

And there is a well for power builds that grants stability and I think breaks stun too.

1 second of Stability (total) on a 50 second cooldown.

It’s just there because it’s a non-instant Stunbreak.
Warrior’s Stomp, too, gives 1s Stability for this reason.

Necros can be tanky, but Stability isn’t Protection, it doesn’t directly reduce damage.
Stability protect you from CC effects like stuns.

Necromancer doesn’t have reliable Vigor and has no dodges on weapons, which means you take a lot of hits.
They can take hits thanks to high health, but the lack of Stability means you can get used as a golf ball or just stunlocked very easily.

In these situations a Guardian has Stability, Thieves and Mesmers have instant teleports to get out of it and so forth.

Since Necro is meant to be slow by design (which I think is dumb, but w/e) they should get better access to Stability.

A good way to do this without making condi Necros even stronger is to put the stability on skills that are favored by other builds.

Since Signet of the Locust is rather terrible and directed at Blood Magic Necros giving it’s active ability some Stability wouldn’t necessarily be a bad idea.

Making it a Stunbreak is a very “safe” idea.
What I mean is just making it a stunbreak without giving it Stability would make it worth using, probably.

Making it give Stability would probably need balance testing, though.

Lol at the one sentence replies 4 times from that guy. This would be good because the active is currently subpar. It can heal for around 5k with 5 targets. If it also granted around 10 seconds of stability it would be well worth taking. Then they would just need to buff Sov and siphons in general, and necros have a serious tank for pvp.

Condi necro should not become stronger. They should put stability in a pure power build instead . Example of a trait : 25% chance to gain stability for 5 sec (30 sec cool down) if you strike a foe for more than 30% of their health.

a t s e.9614:

Codi necro should not become stronger. They should put stability in a pure power build instead . Example of a trait : 25% chance to gain stability for 5 sec (30 sec cool down) if you strike a foe for more than 30% of their health.

That would be a terrible trait no one would take, Life blast is the only skill necros have that could do that (axe 2 is multiple attacks this isn’t a thief). Also that means often times you will have killed the person before you get stability. Also the cooldown is huge. Literally no one would take this and it would solve no problems.

Furthermore, as evidenced by TOL condition necros aren’t that wanted because they don’t have enough sustain to survive in this meta. After the dhummfire patch the only reason necros where viable was because you could sacrifice a whole class to baby sit their terrible sustain because of absurd damage. Since then necromancers condition damage in pvp has been lowered several times, and then they nerfed dhummfire a second time. The condition damage necros put out is low compared to an engineer. They also have less survivability.

Even beyond that, condition necros don’t take signet of locust because they rely on signet of spite, a stun break, and corrupt boon. Introducing a skill to possibly reduce their damage, but increase their sustain is exactly what is needed. Also, if you know the class you’ll know people don’t often run signets and they are in general bad except signet of spite. Your suggestion would just force necros to run full zerker and have even less sustain. That is the opposite of what the class needs.

Necros easily get enough HP not to need more stability. And honestly, this post boils down to you not liking the strengths and weaknesses of necros. Play guard if you need more stability.

Hard cc is the only effective weapon against necros. They have insane condi clear [and even transfer condis to you], lots of HP and toughness in most builds, and even do good if not great damage.

I am sorry, but I can not see the logic of wanting to stack the best condition and boon corrupting/stripping profession, with boons. That is unreasonably out of balance as I see it.

No one is trying to stack us with boons. We want the profession with no vigor, no blocks, no invulns, literally not a single reactive way to avoid an attack to have a bit of stability access so we can trade something (like damage) for the ability to not play ping pong ball simulator 2015.

I can understand why this would be wanted on a Necro. Play a necro in sPvP and my guardian in WvW.

However as much as I understand why it is wanted. I don’t feel that it is a good change. The necro may not not have vigor, blocks or invulns but it has a lot of HP, and can be traited to be extremely tanky, (as mine is).

Look at its counter the guardian, who has alot of boons, blocks and arguably vigor. Guardians have one of the smallest hp pool while Necros have one of the largest. It is a question of balance.

However giving it a stunbreaker feature I don’t feel would be to out of balance.

I agree that this is a bad idea. Necros can strongly negate condition damage. They have the largest Hp pool. Access to additional health with death shroud. Giving them extreme amounts of health to absorb both condition and direct damage. CC is the true weakness, and giving a hard counter to the necros only counter is irrationally out of balance.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

They are tanky while performing activities. Life siphon, deaths shroud etc.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

And there is a well for power builds that grants stability and I think breaks stun too.

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

Everyone talking about DS here DS there, but can’t remember the Life Force scales depending on the scale of the fight:

• High Life Force = strong 1v1.

• High Life Force = useless Xv1 or XvX, Necromancer first focus, DS shredded apart in seconds.

• Low Life Force = GG Necromancer, cya after your respawn.

Guess what can Necromancer do with the actual terribad Life Force generation:

• Build just around Life Force generation (Didn’t you see around builds with both Spectral Walk and Spectral Armor?) or..

• … Say: “welcome I’m cannon fodder”.

Haters make considerations as Necromancers go around always with full LF bar, awesome!

The issue is multiple-fold.

1) Builds that CAN build tanky, have only two ways to meaningfully impact a fight: conditions or minions. However the condition output of a tanky-enough build to classify as a bunker isn’t good enough to be meaningful, or they have to give up so much tankiness they might as well just go full glass like usual. This is due to a complete lack of good support or defensive weapons and lack of good defensive traiting. So sure you can be tanky, but you won’t do anything else, and the enemy team can literally ignore you without consequence until its a 5v1.

2) Non-tanky builds have no active defense. A thief can use vigor, endurance regen, blinks, evades, stealth, etc. all to avoid damage while in a full glass build. Eles get boons, and various other defensive mechanics, same with Mesmers, Warriors, etc. Every other class can build full glass and give up just one thing here or one thing there (drop an offensive offhand for one with block, or drop an offensive utility for a defensive one), except Necromancers, who have no active mechanics. This creates the dual problem of Necromancers feeling bad because there is no way they can possibly get the defense they need, and other people feeling bad because Necromancers, with no choice but to go full offense, end up just trying to murder the entire AoE before they inevitably die.

Stability is a way to allow Necromancers to give up offense (no more complaining about SoS because they won’t take it over a decent stab), and actually have some defense. It won’t reduce the damage you deal to them directly, only allow them to actually play for the 30s of constant CC they will receive when they are focused and die.

You are incorrect. “every other profession” cannot simply build full glass cannon and give up one thing. Or even two things.

Necromancers do have active mechanics to negate damage. We can dodge. We can go into death shroud, we gain protection with some spectral skills. We have AoE blinds. We have chills to negate damage by lengthening the enemies cool down duration, seriously negating damage. We have weakness.

All of which are actively cast. Claiming we have no active negating abilities is untrue.

dancingmonkey.4902:

All of which are actively cast. Claiming we have no active negating abilities is untrue.

No, it is quite true. Death Shroud doesn’t negate anything. Weakness doesn’t negate anything. Chill doesn’t negate anything. Protection doesn’t negate anything. They mitigate, but not negate. The only “negation” necros can have is Blind, and it’s tied to long cooldowns (Well of Darkness, Plague), long cast/travel times (Deathly Swarm) or both (Signet of Spite).

Literally every other profession has access to infinite negations (evasion periods, block periods, invulnerability periods). Necros only have Blind, which negates one hit from that enemy.

We have reduction, not negation, like Drarnor said. Reduction works really well for bunker builds, because they have the armor/HP/sustain to back it up over time, however for anything less than a full bunker, they are useless.

Not saying we need a ton of stuff, but we need better healthy options (note: healthy means you give up something for to get something else).

zapv.8051:

a t s e.9614:

Codi necro should not become stronger. They should put stability in a pure power build instead . Example of a trait : 25% chance to gain stability for 5 sec (30 sec cool down) if you strike a foe for more than 30% of their health.

That would be a terrible trait no one would take, Life blast is the only skill necros have that could do that (axe 2 is multiple attacks this isn’t a thief). Also that means often times you will have killed the person before you get stability. Also the cooldown is huge. Literally no one would take this and it would solve no problems.

Furthermore, as evidenced by TOL condition necros aren’t that wanted because they don’t have enough sustain to survive in this meta. After the dhummfire patch the only reason necros where viable was because you could sacrifice a whole class to baby sit their terrible sustain because of absurd damage. Since then necromancers condition damage in pvp has been lowered several times, and then they nerfed dhummfire a second time. The condition damage necros put out is low compared to an engineer. They also have less survivability.

Even beyond that, condition necros don’t take signet of locust because they rely on signet of spite, a stun break, and corrupt boon. Introducing a skill to possibly reduce their damage, but increase their sustain is exactly what is needed. Also, if you know the class you’ll know people don’t often run signets and they are in general bad except signet of spite. Your suggestion would just force necros to run full zerker and have even less sustain. That is the opposite of what the class needs.

A well played zerker necro can be very strong against everything except warrior because of immunities spam and stuns. But for an adept trait that would be decent .

1v1 maybe, but a zerker necro will get destroyed in half a second in a team fight.

a t s e.9614:

zapv.8051:

a t s e.9614:

Codi necro should not become stronger. They should put stability in a pure power build instead . Example of a trait : 25% chance to gain stability for 5 sec (30 sec cool down) if you strike a foe for more than 30% of their health.

That would be a terrible trait no one would take, Life blast is the only skill necros have that could do that (axe 2 is multiple attacks this isn’t a thief). Also that means often times you will have killed the person before you get stability. Also the cooldown is huge. Literally no one would take this and it would solve no problems.

Furthermore, as evidenced by TOL condition necros aren’t that wanted because they don’t have enough sustain to survive in this meta. After the dhummfire patch the only reason necros where viable was because you could sacrifice a whole class to baby sit their terrible sustain because of absurd damage. Since then necromancers condition damage in pvp has been lowered several times, and then they nerfed dhummfire a second time. The condition damage necros put out is low compared to an engineer. They also have less survivability.

Even beyond that, condition necros don’t take signet of locust because they rely on signet of spite, a stun break, and corrupt boon. Introducing a skill to possibly reduce their damage, but increase their sustain is exactly what is needed. Also, if you know the class you’ll know people don’t often run signets and they are in general bad except signet of spite. Your suggestion would just force necros to run full zerker and have even less sustain. That is the opposite of what the class needs.

A well played zerker necro can be very strong against everything except warrior because of immunities spam and stuns. But for an adept trait that would be decent .

A good thief will always beat a zerker necro no exceptions. Good eles, and mesmers have a huge advantage as well. That trait would be terrible. It would need to be a 100% chance on maybe 10% of their health to be useful. Your iteration would trigger so rarely you wouldn’t notice. You also couldn’t use it reliably. Attacking it to a utility means people have to make sacrifices for it, and it would help give serious play to signet of locusts active because currently it’s a 25% speed boost and nothing else.

Stun Break on Locust could be cool. Optionally, make it so that it doesn’t have a cast time, so that it can be cast while stunned. If a gang of dudes comes up to you, you can just go “KAPOW LOCUST SIGNET” and steal like 6k health.

probably should have mentioned I wanted to replace the healing aspect of the signet with the stability not have both because anet would never do that -.-’

as for all the hate to this suggestion… stop playing warrior and guardian and wanting easy kills with your hammers/shield etc…. all stability will do is give us some time to actually do something rather then kiss the dirt and make you need to actually put some thought into when to use your stuns

stun breaks are fine but rather pointless if they don’t immediately remove us from point blank range because another cc will be instantly applied

I just have to shake my head when some poster here incorrectly state that weakness doesn’t negate any thing. It very literally completely negates ferocity and any trait that procs on crit.

Us necros not only have the ability to completely negate conditions, but also turn the damageback on the oopponent for additional damage. These are facts, not opinions.

The ability to literally negate conditions and cries is very strong. To suggest we need to have the ability to fully negate CC as well Is not reasonable.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

Necros easily get enough HP not to need more stability. And honestly, this post boils down to you not liking the strengths and weaknesses of necros. Play guard if you need more stability.

Except that weakness to cc isnt a listed necro weakness, as a matter of fact it wasnt, they were bloody immune to it during the beta with DS ignoring all cc (but it still interrupting currently cast skills) and before that there being a trait which plain made them utterly immune to all control removal effects.
MOBILITY is a necro weakness, COOOLDOWNS and cast times are a necro weakness, Lack of IMMUNITIES/blocks/dodges/vigor is a necro weakness.
Getting chain cced isnt, same as warriors should be weak to condis, but arent because of meta whiners like you.

coglin.1867:

I just have to shake my head when some poster here incorrectly state that weakness doesn’t negate any thing. It very literally completely negates ferocity and any trait that procs on crit.

Us necros not only have the ability to completely negate conditions, but also turn the damageback on the oopponent for additional damage. These are facts, not opinions.

The ability to literally negate conditions and cries is very strong. To suggest we need to have the ability to fully negate CC as well Is not reasonable.

A) dont put us necros because you are probably something like a 5k ap player with 10 games
B) Unless you mean underwater, no… we have a strong resistance to conditions, but so do guardians, eles, now warriors and if built right mesmers and thieves.

have fun when they just get insta cleansed while you face rub the dirt that’s if you are not already there before you cast them… but most likely you do that before they see you.

you build for high damage you get stuck in place…. and cant use that high damage anyway. you go crazy with deathshroud whoopee you last another what 3 seconds? and then die all the while not really doing any noticeable damage

build for condis same problem just find yourself being pulled stunned immobed not being able to do ANYTHING. sure we can throw it back on them but then what? a massive cooldown followed up by more cc that’s what.

I would like to know what is warriors weakness? is it conditions? they seem to have a fair bit of cleansing to me not to mention free sustain from signet.. in my belief they should get our signet and we get theirs makes way more sense.. is it cc? no just a simple leap can cancel that…

guardians.. basically the same as warriors if not worse.

ele? low health and armour made up for with invulnerability…. boon spam… crazy healing

Mesmer? did someone say meat shield followed by invisibility making you waste any cc they might get? but even if they get hit they just port out of it

engie? now has stability so that weakness is gone hmm…

thief ? what’s that I need a target to hit him? but wait he is vulnerable to aoe. who stands in aoe? that’s a l2p issue not a weakness they can get stability even tho its situational but even if you get them pinned down they can get out of it, not to mention stealth is one of the best survival mechanics

every class has a weakness but they all have a way to overcome it, we do not

You do, you just don’t want to run certain traits and skills.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

You do, you just don’t want to run certain traits and skills.

if you mean be a terrormancer then lolz…….. a lot of people pop stability when they engage a necro now because of the runes

foot in the grave? I am running that it barely makes a difference because you go from somewhat good dps to noticeably low dps/pressure when you go to ds and by the time you do anything its over

go all out with deathshroud with spectral skills? you might last long enough for help to come along

the only possible sustain build is minion master but I don’t have trouble with them and neither do most people

anyway after starting with necro playing in wvw then venturing into pvp I have now shelved it till I can get over its flaws again.

moved to Mesmer and what a difference.. still no stability but I don’t seem to get locked down and focused like crazy and if I do I just pop a TELEPORTING STUNBREAK AND STEALTH good example of other classes having ways to get around their weakness..

coglin.1867:

It very literally completely negates ferocity and any trait that procs on crit.

It’s an incorrect information, weakness doesn’t completely negates procs on crit. You have damage reduced, but you still can crit and apply on hits and crit effects.
(Test it with Death Perception, 100% crit chance, Sigil of Fire, Corrosive poison Cloud and on crit traits.)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakness
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glancing

Invulnerability, permastuns, permadodges negates totally all my stats.

Us necros not only have the ability to completely negate conditions, but also turn the damageback on the opponent for additional damage. These are facts, not opinions. The ability to literally negate conditions and cries is very strong. To suggest we need to have the ability to fully negate CC as well Is not reasonable.

1) Don’t talk about “us” Necros, you are now attempting to pretend you speak for every one in this community, including myself. It’s offensive.
2) Warrior’s Berserker Stance, sigils, traits and skills removing periodically conditions are “negating” conditions, for Necromancers the time you wasted up all your condi removal and the opponent has a class able to stack conditions quick enough (Warrior, Engineer), it’s done.

First of all, I’m no meta whiner. I have every class at 80 and love to play them all. Warriors are op, and if you want to cry about it, you are on the wrong thread. Secondly, necros are very strong. I stand by that. Other classes are slow too, deal with it. You have soft cc (cripple chill) to make up for it.

Personally I would only make it a stunbreak. But necros do need stability on a utility somewhere. The lack of active defence is disgraceful and having a class which can be completely stunlocked doesnt seem like good design. Being tanky doesnt help anyone if you are being used as a pinball.

100% meta whiner with no game design knowledge or adaptation/evolution capabilities.

how does soft cc stop them casting ranged hard cc? our own weapon range prevents us from getting very far away and some classes the hard cc on weapons is actually a gap closer…

Yeah Locust does need to be a stunbreak but not stability as then it would be to much. Its already a decent utility as it is and I don’t want to see it broken. We do however need stability urgently. We are the only class that cant escape a fight and easily get bowled over by CC chains. Outside of repears protection (20 in death on a 1minute cooldown) and or sacrificing everying for the FIG trait we are basically ping pong balls.

Right now I see 2 paths forward. Either place it on some of our utilities of which Upping well of powers stability duration to 3 seconds or placing it on 1 of the spectral skills would be the best bet since it would benefit power users more rather then the problematic Condimancers and give players more reason to use those skillsets. The other option and probably more favoured would be adding it to traits. My idea is to redo the subpar grandmaster spite siphoned power so that instead of low duration might every hit it could be (when your health drops to 25% gain 4 seconds of stability and fury on a 45cooldown). Probably needs a work but something like would definably be welcome

Cripple and chill effect the range on gap closers. Hard ranged cc it does not help against, but, few classes have an abundance of that.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

Cripple and chill effect the range on gap closers. Hard ranged cc it does not help against, but, few classes have an abundance of that.

On some gap closers, Cripple and Chill work. Mesmers, Guardians, Thieves, and Eles rarely use gap closers that are affected. Mesmers don’t even have any.

The only time I see ranged hard cc being a problem is on staff ele, but those are usually encountered in wvw, and in wvw aoe stability is the guardians job.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

MercilessLemurs.7459:

Cripple and chill effect the range on gap closers. Hard ranged cc it does not help against, but, few classes have an abundance of that.

On some gap closers, Cripple and Chill work. Mesmers, Guardians, Thieves, and Eles rarely use gap closers that are affected. Mesmers don’t even have any.

Yes, but the main hard cc out putter to worry about is warrior. Which it does affect.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

First of all, I’m no meta whiner. I have every class at 80 and love to play them all. Warriors are op, and if you want to cry about it, you are on the wrong thread. Secondly, necros are very strong. I stand by that. Other classes are slow too, deal with it. You have soft cc (cripple chill) to make up for it.

Do you even know what you’re talking about lol? You claim to have every class at Level 80 but somehow I doubt you play them all equally. It was painful scrolling through this thread and reading uninformed post after post.

It’s already been addressed but the fact you thought Well of Power counts as reliable access to stability is laughable; you realise that it’s just there to cover the stunbreak and the cast-time so you can actually get the well off, right?

I’ve seen well of power used well in Wvw to help against cc bombs. Pvp is a different story.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

I’ve seen well of power used well in Wvw to help against cc bombs. Pvp is a different story.

Not really. Well of Power doesn’t grant stability to allies. The skill is the same even in WvW. No one’s going to stand in the middle of a bomb.

And after all, AoE stability is a guardian’s job. You said so yourself.

Just checked, you are correct. However, someone said it wasn’t an instant stun breaker, it is. And, as far as I can tell, what the majority of people in this thread want is a stun breaker.