Guild Wars 2

I wish there was some way us asians can purchase those gem cards too. 1$ = 1php rate as well. That’ll the day I die happy.

Leo Paul.1659:

I wish there was some way us asians can purchase those gem cards too. 1$ = 1php rate as well. That’ll the day I die happy.

Or $1 = 1 yen.

you can live in europe and say that your country is US so…

But is not legal i think

happyjedi.1372:

What will happen if I play in Europe (in a european server) and do pay in dollars?

Do it and tell us how much your payment processor charges you for the currency conversion. For science.

Malediktus.9250:

John Smith.4610:

That UI is for US Tax, VAT is added into the price. We pay 20% on all transactions from Europe.

You are offering virtual goods and no creation of value. Why not just take the tax hit? Its not like you are loosing anything.

Wow. Nice way to insult the people who made the game.

If it has no value, why are you wanting to buy it?

happyjedi.1372:

The exact conversion is nearly 9,5€ (VAT included) for the gem pack so the margin is 50 cents, not 5.

The person said it’s 5 cents to the dollar.

x10 for $10s, that’s 50 cents.

So, you’re both right.

Like other businesses do, ANet could just credit 880 gems for 10€ instead of 800 and change the amount from time to time on the basis of the current EUR/USD exchange rate and their other hidden costs.

happyjedi.1372:

EnemyCrusher.7324:

and that additional 5% cost is built in to protect against inflation.

Interesting, and how are we supposed to protect ourselves from inflation, considering that Anet only is protecting itself I still call it arbitrary.

By inflationary adjustments on your salary, like in every other business.

happyjedi.1372:

John Smith.4610:

That UI is for US Tax, VAT is added into the price. We pay 20% on all transactions from Europe.

Understood, but this does not justify a 50 cents price different.

How about the fact that the US median wage is now well behind many EU nations?

You should be happy you’re charged so much more, it’s just more proof the US is turning into a banana republic.

John Smith.4610:

That UI is for US Tax, VAT is added into the price. We pay 20% on all transactions from Europe.

I think you ment “Eurpean Union” since not whole Europe is in European Union.

Im in Europe and not in European Union for a short while yet, and i know for certain theres 0 taxes for digital goods (transactions) in my country.

Granted i still pay for GW2/gems in $ and in that way its OK, but for services like Steam i have to pay non-existing taxes, funny, i get 0 refunds so literaly they charge me 20% (or) more than they should.

But i agree that people that pay in Euros should get like 850 gems for 10, it would seems fair.

Rajani Isa.6294:

Malediktus.9250:

John Smith.4610:

That UI is for US Tax, VAT is added into the price. We pay 20% on all transactions from Europe.

You are offering virtual goods and no creation of value. Why not just take the tax hit? Its not like you are loosing anything.

Wow. Nice way to insult the people who made the game.

If it has no value, why are you wanting to buy it?

Uh, we all paid for the game. The stuff inside the gemshop was created once and just gets duplicated any desired amount of times or in some cases like character slots are created automatically by the system and take a tiny bit of space on their servers. Space costs almost nothing today.
I dont see the creation of value there.

Malediktus.9250:

Rajani Isa.6294:

Malediktus.9250:

John Smith.4610:

That UI is for US Tax, VAT is added into the price. We pay 20% on all transactions from Europe.

You are offering virtual goods and no creation of value. Why not just take the tax hit? Its not like you are loosing anything.

Wow. Nice way to insult the people who made the game.

If it has no value, why are you wanting to buy it?

Uh, we all paid for the game. The stuff inside the gemshop was created once and just gets duplicated any desired amount of times or in some cases like character slots are created automatically by the system and take a tiny bit of space on their servers. Space costs almost nothing today.
I dont see the creation of value there.

The gem shop helps to pay salaries and keep the lights on. Taking any kind of a cut from the gem shop will lower profits, but keep the same amount of overhead – especially since you claim datacenters are so cheap.

It would be very unwise for them to just say “Sure, we’ll pay the taxes!” In your eyes, they’re not losing anything. But, your eyes are wrong.

Ever thought more people would buy in the gem shop? I am sure ~20% lower prices would increase sales.

Anakin.9765:

It would be very unwise for them to just say “Sure, we’ll pay the taxes!” In your eyes, they’re not losing anything. But, your eyes are wrong.

But they ARE NOT losing anything.
We do pay the gems value, taxes and even a tip (the 50 cents).

Larosh.1605:

Like other businesses do, ANet could just credit 880 gems for 10€ instead of 800 and change the amount from time to time on the basis of the current EUR/USD exchange rate and their other hidden costs.

I totally agree.

Or they could let us pay the price in USD. I know some companies which let you pay in USD via paypal even thought you live in europe. Saves quite a bit of money.

happyjedi.1372:

Anakin.9765:

It would be very unwise for them to just say “Sure, we’ll pay the taxes!” In your eyes, they’re not losing anything. But, your eyes are wrong.

But they ARE NOT losing anything.
We do pay the gems value, taxes and even a tip (the 50 cents).

Um, if they take the tax hit then you wouldn’t be paying it… that means they suddenly lose ~20% of their income.

Please explain how on earth losing ~20% of income is “not losing anything”? (this explanation will be interesting… especially since it means you complaining about a 5% “tip” must be less than nothing)

Malediktus.9250:

Ever thought more people would buy in the gem shop? I am sure ~20% lower prices would increase sales.

If they believed 20% lower prices would maximize profits, they would have set the price there. Clearly Anet believes the current prices are the best prices, otherwise they would have set different ones.

People who believe something should visit a church and not set the prices.

Malediktus.9250:

People who believe something should visit a church and not set the prices.

You really are that ignorant aren’t you.

Tigera.2916:

Please explain how on earth losing ~20% of income is “not losing anything”? (this explanation will be interesting… especially since it means you complaining about a 5% “tip” must be less than nothing)

They are not losing a single cent in the transaction: the final consumer (us) is covering the 20% VAT cost here in Europe; plus, to round the price they added a “tip” of 50 cents from nowhere.
I still don’t understand why we, european players, must pay more for the same amount of gems.

I can understand the 20% VAT that MUST be charged (everywhere in europe is the consumer that is charged of the tax cost, there should be a 50/50 split cost between seller and consumer if we talk of fair prices but I’m not starting this discussion, this is not the place), BUT I cannot understand the 50 cents overpricing.

ArenaNet should lower the cost in Euro, raise the gems aquired by the value of 50 cents OR use the same method utilized by other companies allowed to charge in USD instead of local currency.

Syeria.4812:

If they believed 20% lower prices would maximize profits, they would have set the price there. Clearly Anet believes the current prices are the best prices, otherwise they would have set different ones.

We are not concerned about VAT costs but about an arbitrary raising on the overall price.
Remember that “just rounding the price for some reason” is not valid because in UK players have to pay a not rounded amount.

Also, remember that in europe the whole game costs 54,99€ and in US it costs 59,99$ so we are not talking about “rounding prices and/or inability to set a price” but about ARBITRARY OVERPRICING.

Malediktus.9250:

People who believe something should visit a church and not set the prices.

I believe in science and math! Pity there isn’t a religion of science though. If there was I’d be totes in it.

CD Project Red wanted to sell The Witcher 2 on their site where everyone was paying the same price, but for what ever legal reasons they could not do it, instead countries out side of the US got to pick some games from GoG as compensation, because CD Project Red had to sell their game at the $1 = 1Euro price, even though they did not want to.

This sort of thing makes me wonder about money laundering.

Okay, I skimmed a bit, but one thing I didn’t notice addressed in this was the conversion fees. I deal with this in an international sales job. We not only have to account for the VAT, but we also pay a small fee to get the funds converted into US dollars to bank them here. If their fees are anything like the ones I deal with, then yes, 10 euros will end up being roughly 10 dollars after you back out the VAT and the conversion fees. All in all, the difference will be negligible enough to just round it off. And that rounding will lend some protection in the event of fluctuations in an unstable economy. Any retailer looking to protect themselves from loss in an unstable global economy does the same thing. The companies who don’t collect for conversion fees are the ones who can afford to leave all the income in the regional bank for paying regional salaries and making regional investments.

And where are you collecting all this data about currency conversion?
How are you able to know this about Anet? How do you know they actually convert € to $ ?

While I can see why some people may believe they’re paying more than they should, it’s completely within ArenaNet’s rights to set gem prices at whatever they want, even including discriminatory pricing based on region.

Others have posted explanations as to why the discrepancy exists and isn’t as large as it appears to be. Ultimately though, if you don’t like the price, don’t pay it.

happyjedi.1372:

And where are you collecting all this data about currency conversion?
How are you able to know this about Anet? How do you know they actually convert € to $ ?

Given that they are based in the US, it’s a fair bet that excess profits beyond their local expenses go back to the US. I don’t know it for certain, but it’s how most companies work. There’s no point in leaving money sitting overseas.

Ohliufff.8160:

There was this person working in a bank, who deviated 0.10 cents from every transaction people made with bank transfers and made around 100 million in a week….At the end he went to jail because that was illegal.

This tactic is called penny shaving and has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

Sooo when you say “1 Dollar = 0.8x Euro, very close to what the 1 to 1 conversion works out at without the VAT.” yea it sounds good if we are talking about 100 euro right?

How does it sound when we talk about ignoring 0.03 over hundreds of millions? That is money out of consumers pocket mind you.

What happens here is technically legal although I would call it highly unethical. The least they could do is allow us to pay in US or EU depending on player preference.

Furthermore, VAT is only paid by people living in Washington state. Other US residents don’t have to pay VAT on online purchases. Claiming VAT is a cop-out because most players don’t know the law across the atlantic.

So … when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Europeans don’t like unethical pricing. High pricing is OK as long as it is justified. There’s absolutely no reason to up an online purchase with 20%.

Are we assuming the overhead to run this game in Europe is equivalent to the US? That the cost of equipment, power, labor, floorspace, multiple language translation from source text, taxation, etc. are all identical?

Nike.2631:

Are we assuming the overhead to run this game in Europe is equivalent to the US? That the cost of equipment, power, labor, floorspace, multiple language translation from source text, taxation, etc. are all identical?

That’s not the point.
We, players, don’t really care about that. We expect equal treatment, while taking in consideration european VAT prices, and nothing less/more.

Guys guys, guys, if you really don’t want to tip Arenanet, convert gold —> gems and stop whining.

If you enjoy the game, tip them. If you don’t enjoy it, don’t play it.

If you don’t enjoy the tip, don’t pay them at all and use gold…

happyjedi.1372:

Nike.2631:

Are we assuming the overhead to run this game in Europe is equivalent to the US? That the cost of equipment, power, labor, floorspace, multiple language translation from source text, taxation, etc. are all identical?

That’s not the point.
We, players, don’t really care about that. We expect equal treatment, while taking in consideration european VAT prices, and nothing less/more.

Actually, why the heck isn’t it the point?

Euro players require a separate infrastructure, and they operate in economies with differing purchasing powers..seems more than reasonable to account for a small difference in pricing.

Lol, european people are getting poorer at a rapid rate thanks to incompetent politicians. Only a small percentage is profiting from EU. So I doubt there is a major purchasing power difference between US and EU.

happyjedi.1372:

Anakin.9765:

It would be very unwise for them to just say “Sure, we’ll pay the taxes!” In your eyes, they’re not losing anything. But, your eyes are wrong.

But they ARE NOT losing anything.
We do pay the gems value, taxes and even a tip (the 50 cents).

Just because they do not pay out of their pockets does not mean they are not losing anything. Cutting profits doesn’t count as a loss?

You simply do not understand how it works, do you?

Malediktus.9250:

Lol, european people are getting poorer at a rapid rate thanks to incompetent politicians. Only a small percentage is profiting from EU. So I doubt there is a major purchasing power difference between US and EU.

You haven’t been to the EU right? I’ve been to the states several times. We are far richer than US residents. I would wager a factor x2 for entry level jobs. I am 27 and have full social security, healthcare benefits and three retirement plans, pay for an unemployed partner and the theoretical disposable income to hire a full time servant if I wish so. I’m still at relatively low income level.

However this is also the reason we are in economic trouble. We have to accept losing some of our wealth in order to not lose all. Not everyone is prepared to give up 5% of their large wealth to save our economy.

I live in Germany, and I can tell you its looking worse every year.

marnick.4305:

Malediktus.9250:

Lol, european people are getting poorer at a rapid rate thanks to incompetent politicians. Only a small percentage is profiting from EU. So I doubt there is a major purchasing power difference between US and EU.

You haven’t been to the EU right? I’ve been to the states several times. We are far richer than US residents. I would wager a factor x2 for entry level jobs. I am 27 and have full social security, healthcare benefits and three retirement plans, pay for an unemployed partner and the theoretical disposable income to hire a full time servant if I wish so. I’m still at relatively low income level.

However this is also the reason we are in economic trouble. We have to accept losing some of our wealth in order to not lose all. Not everyone is prepared to give up 5% of their large wealth to save our economy.

Kudos for having a good job.

Anti-kudos for writing what you wrote and ignoring millions of unemployed, whole countries going kinda down the drain (idk Greece), whole countries that have average pay 500-600 EUR/month and so on and so forth.

Don’t worry, we aussies always get the short end of the stick when it comes to things like that. Good example: buying games, especially as digital download over steam.

The reason for 1Euro=1US=1AUS is based on the economy on the most part, which IMO is a load of kitten garbage anyways. Why is it BS? Because the currency exchange is not 1:1!

Be creative.

There are many countries which are billed in $ by Anet.

And Anet certainly does not have address database of all of them.

Anakin.9765:

happyjedi.1372:

Anakin.9765:

It would be very unwise for them to just say “Sure, we’ll pay the taxes!” In your eyes, they’re not losing anything. But, your eyes are wrong.

But they ARE NOT losing anything.
We do pay the gems value, taxes and even a tip (the 50 cents).

Just because they do not pay out of their pockets does not mean they are not losing anything. Cutting profits doesn’t count as a loss?

You simply do not understand how it works, do you?

I think maybe he’s having some feelings of entitlement? That can be the only explanation for someone wanting a business to give up revenue to satisfy their personal needs.

Again, you don’t understand the point: we are charged 50 cents more than the supposed price+VAT.
Will USA players be happy about the fact that 800 gems are no longer 10$ but 10,5$ without any explainable reason while others still pay the same?

happyjedi.1372:

Again, you don’t understand the point: we are charged 50 cents more than the supposed price+VAT.
Will USA players be happy about the fact that 800 gems are no longer 10$ but 10,5$ without any explainable reason while others still pay the same?

It’s only a €0.05 difference per 1US dollar. You’re only seeing a bigger difference of €0.50 because you’re multiplying it out by 10, thus trying to make a bigger deal than it is. At least you’re not saying it’s a €50 difference with each $1000 transaction.

happyjedi.1372:

Again, you don’t understand the point: we are charged 50 cents more than the supposed price+VAT.
Will USA players be happy about the fact that 800 gems are no longer 10$ but 10,5$ without any explainable reason while others still pay the same?

And in some states, US players are charged $10 plus tax (as denoted in the UI screenshot earlier).

1 dollar is not 1 euro, but it costs anet more money to sell a gem to a European. You have VAT and conversion rates and fees to consider. And because anet wants to offer a stable price when currency conversion is not stable you end up with periods of under/over.

In the end it probably is less profitable per gem to sell to a European, all factors considered.

Novalight.7568:

marnick.4305:

Malediktus.9250:

Lol, european people are getting poorer at a rapid rate thanks to incompetent politicians. Only a small percentage is profiting from EU. So I doubt there is a major purchasing power difference between US and EU.

You haven’t been to the EU right? I’ve been to the states several times. We are far richer than US residents. I would wager a factor x2 for entry level jobs. I am 27 and have full social security, healthcare benefits and three retirement plans, pay for an unemployed partner and the theoretical disposable income to hire a full time servant if I wish so. I’m still at relatively low income level.

However this is also the reason we are in economic trouble. We have to accept losing some of our wealth in order to not lose all. Not everyone is prepared to give up 5% of their large wealth to save our economy.

Kudos for having a good job.

Anti-kudos for writing what you wrote and ignoring millions of unemployed, whole countries going kinda down the drain (idk Greece), whole countries that have average pay 500-600 EUR/month and so on and so forth.

Apart from Greece those countries don’t exist in Europe. In Belgium there’s 7% unemployment and they do get 1000 euros every single month. Apart from Germany, minimum wage is at least 900 euros across the board, higher in many countries. Don’t make false statements.

I don’t even have a particularly good job. Just entry level at market-conform wage. Thanks for the kudos.

marnick.4305:

Novalight.7568:

marnick.4305:

Malediktus.9250:

Lol, european people are getting poorer at a rapid rate thanks to incompetent politicians. Only a small percentage is profiting from EU. So I doubt there is a major purchasing power difference between US and EU.

You haven’t been to the EU right? I’ve been to the states several times. We are far richer than US residents. I would wager a factor x2 for entry level jobs. I am 27 and have full social security, healthcare benefits and three retirement plans, pay for an unemployed partner and the theoretical disposable income to hire a full time servant if I wish so. I’m still at relatively low income level.

However this is also the reason we are in economic trouble. We have to accept losing some of our wealth in order to not lose all. Not everyone is prepared to give up 5% of their large wealth to save our economy.

Kudos for having a good job.

Anti-kudos for writing what you wrote and ignoring millions of unemployed, whole countries going kinda down the drain (idk Greece), whole countries that have average pay 500-600 EUR/month and so on and so forth.

Apart from Greece those countries don’t exist in Europe. In Belgium there’s 7% unemployment and they do get 1000 euros every single month. Apart from Germany, minimum wage is at least 900 euros across the board, higher in many countries. Don’t make false statements.

I don’t even have a particularly good job. Just entry level at market-conform wage. Thanks for the kudos.

Well good thing you don’t need geography or economy knowledge for your job (if you do….well…).

Here’s a map of Europe for you http://www.vidiani.com/maps/maps_of_europe/large_detailed_relief_map_of_europe.jpg . Quite similar to what’s in EU, but not quite.

Here I’ll give you a sample of low wage (hint, 1st paragraph) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Bulgaria
There are few other countries that are not much better off, pay wise.
If you take 5 min to google “unemployment in EU” you’ll get some numbers. Yes, those are millions of ppl of working age, add the elderly with low pensions, unregistered unemployed, shool-age people that have parents without jobs… things looking less shiney? EU unemployment is around 10% btw.

And FYI, if average pay is let’s say 900 EUR. How many people are below that? Our average pay is 970 EUR and there are many many people with guaranteed wage which is around 550 EUR (our stores costs are comparable to Germany, but services are cheaper).

And yeh, I’m just making those countries up. Here’s a minumim wage graph for ya’ as a cherry on a cake of your ignorance http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php?title=File:Minimum_wage,_1_July_2012_%281%29_%28EUR_per_month%29.png&filetimestamp=20121001124322

You want more? GROSS average pay (deduct taxes on top of that + the high paying jobs are also included there so average Joe has less).
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/images/9/9c/Earnings_in_the_business_economy_%28average_gross_annual_earnings_of_full-time_employees%29%2C_2008-2010_%281%29_%28EUR%29.png

So basically, you’re just thinking everyone is at least as well off as you or your country. Austria for example is also doing good, but that’s not representative of EU or Europe as a whole.

P.S. If you’d hire a servant, I doubt he’d get as much as you do eh?

P.P.S. How much do you think games for example cost in lower wage countries? Oh looky, at least for me, they are the same as in idk Germany. And then companies wonder why so many people are pirating stuff in some countries…ppl won’t give 10%+ of their monthly income (or idk 10 allowances) for 1 stinking game that may or may not even include day 1 payable DLCs/last a whole whopping 5-6 hrs/just plainly suck.

Draygo.9473:

. You have VAT and conversion rates and fees to consider.

I understand VAT but how do you know that Anet is converting and is paying fees?

happyjedi.1372:

Draygo.9473:

. You have VAT and conversion rates and fees to consider.

I understand VAT but how do you know that Anet is converting and is paying fees?

I’d really like to know why you’re so upset over a €0.05 difference per 1US dollar? Is money so tight that €0.05 is game changing? If so, perhaps you should consider seeking some professional help, because I think you may have an MMO addiction. We players care for the well being of our brother gamers.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’d really like to know why you’re so upset over a €0.05 difference per 1US dollar? Is money so tight that €0.05 is game changing? If so, perhaps you should consider seeking some professional help, because I think you may have an MMO addiction. We players care for the well being of our brother gamers.

I’ll take your reply as a joke because you can’t possibly be that dumb.
I’m not upset, I’m a bit concerned about the fact that Anet is literally overpricing gem cost in any currency that is not USD with no reasons.

happyjedi.1372:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’d really like to know why you’re so upset over a €0.05 difference per 1US dollar? Is money so tight that €0.05 is game changing? If so, perhaps you should consider seeking some professional help, because I think you may have an MMO addiction. We players care for the well being of our brother gamers.

I’ll take your reply as a joke because you can’t possibly be that dumb.
I’m not upset, I’m a bit concerned about the fact that Anet is literally overpricing gem cost in any currency that is not USD with no reasons.

Again, I ask why you are so upset with a a €0.05 difference per 1US dollar? I’m being very serious, as I can’t understand how you can be serious.