Guild Wars 2

So what would make you happy is a new looking armor or weapon as a reward from an event or dungeon rather than a new skin, no attributes, available at the Gem Shop directly or indirectly through tickets.

This goes back to having the exchange in the first place because prices at the Gem Shop have remained unchanged with the exception of sales. But since we can by gems with in game gold and since few bother to convert gold to gems on days other than item introduction days, we now have now have 50-70g skins and likely in six months we will have those same skins going for 75-100g.

But as others pointed out, items at the Gem Store don’t give you better stats or any type of gaming advantage. You are getting upset over not being able to buy, for nothing other than gaming time, a look. I want bunny ears. I want a grenth hood. I want Rox’s quiver. Then forgo your morning Starbucks coffee for something less expensive and simply buy gems with the difference. If it was easy to gather the gold needed to buy it then ANet couldn’t stay open.

On the flip side how much in game currency do you waste on the waypoint system? How much do you give away because you sell your unwanted loot to the highest bidder on the TP? How much do you over spend buying items from the lowest seller? How much “junk” you simply discard because you think it’s not worth cashing it in at a vendor? All of that adds up.

mtpelion.4562:

Pie Flavor.1647:

why can’t you use wealth disparity in GW2 when we use things like inflation, supply/demand, etc which have just as many variables as disparity in real life that are not taken into account in GW2?

fact is, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, there is just no way a new player nowadays is able to compete in this market, because those who already possess a fortune will be making more money out of that market, and the barriers of entry are higher and higher as more gold sources are nerfed and removed.

Rich players are unable to negatively impact poor players in a game because things like sustenance, healthcare, housing, and employment don’t exist. That is why wealth disparity is irrelevant in a game.

do you think people would be happy living at minimal standards in real life?

game life sustenance health care etc, comes down to enjoying the game. If many people start to find the game unenjoyable due to the reward structure, that is a problem.

Rewards are supposed to enhance your experience, not hinder it.

I wonder if GW2 keeps track of the number of threads saying “I’d like to support this game, but there’s nothing good in the gem store” versus those saying “this game sucks, the only stuff worth having is in the gem store”, because I would guess they are running neck and neck.

Unidentified dyes have an in game recipe which at current prices puts a one gold value on them, meaning the cost of Bifrost is only slightly higher, although it’s a lot harder to collect the dyes just from what you pick up. I made the Moot which required boxes of fun when they were only available at the gem store, so the situation overall has actually improved.

The cash rewards from champ boxes don’t appear to have been nerfed as much as feared, but either way you are still in a much better position than you were at launch.

Nobody seems to be giving credit to the fact that wardrobe changes on level 80 items are no longer gem store only. This is an infinitely better situation than at launch.

I suppose that I am less sympathetic than I should be because I think that champ farming is an awful way to play GW2 in terms of fun, but if you like the grind then do a little bit of research on the t2, 3 and 4 mats that fetch high prices and farm events that generate them with a friend or two. This is an example of a tweak to the economy that has worked, making it easier for lower level players to make money, unless they want to get all crafting skills up. There are also other ways of making money (dungeon runs, Cursed Shore events) that are also more effective at generating cash than champ trains ever were.

The economy isn’t broken, it’s just that the least interesting way of generating coin has taken a hit, and it still takes about the same amount of time to grind out a legendary as it ever did. To top it off the game is actually less gem store centred thanks to the new wardrobe.

Each time I read a post like this I’m more and more convinced that the players who get really upset about not having enough gold are all really just frustrated that they can’t get a Legendary weapon easily. They grind for the gold, which isn’t fun for them but they think its what they should be doing, and then they come to resent the game for it.

You’ll never really see one of these “I can’t make enough gold” posts without the person mentioning a Legendary.

Stone.6751:

Each time I read a post like this I’m more and more convinced that the players who get really upset about not having enough gold are all really just frustrated that they can’t get a Legendary weapon easily. They grind for the gold, which isn’t fun for them but they think its what they should be doing, and then they come to resent the game for it.

You’ll never really see one of these “I can’t make enough gold” posts without the person mentioning a Legendary.

Same here, but I just figured mentioning it would be pointing out the elephant in the room.

“You’re upset because it takes a lot of time and effort to get stuff that was designed to require a lot of time and effort.”

Stone.6751:

Each time I read a post like this I’m more and more convinced that the players who get really upset about not having enough gold are all really just frustrated that they can’t get a Legendary weapon easily. They grind for the gold, which isn’t fun for them but they think its what they should be doing, and then they come to resent the game for it.

You’ll never really see one of these “I can’t make enough gold” posts without the person mentioning a Legendary.

Eh, it’s probably because the Legendaries are a great showcase of the pricing hikes. I for one find most of them downright ugly. But I still think they are way too expensive in a game that was supposed to be not so grind-heavy. Legendaries are the epitome of grind, buy or craft, doesn’t matter.

Having a legendary is not unique anymore and since there is such a limited variety of them, the probability of most people wanting one are actually kinda on the low side. (flower footsteps, omgwtf)

Borghal.1635:

But I still think they are way too expensive in a game that was supposed to be not so grind-heavy. Legendaries are the epitome of grind, buy or craft, doesn’t matter.

Somewhere along the line they realized that for a lot of traditional MMO players, the grind is the game. Without the carrot dangling just out of reach, they get bored and wander away. And players who don’t log in won’t spend money on the game…

tolunart.2095:

Borghal.1635:

But I still think they are way too expensive in a game that was supposed to be not so grind-heavy. Legendaries are the epitome of grind, buy or craft, doesn’t matter.

Somewhere along the line they realized that for a lot of traditional MMO players, the grind is the game. Without the carrot dangling just out of reach, they get bored and wander away. And players who don’t log in won’t spend money on the game…

There’s truth in what you say. But in this case for most players the stick is not a foot long, it’s a mile. Such players won’t spend money on the game either – they might buy the stuff they won’t grind, sure, but probably not at the prices the TP enforces (That’s just my speculation, admittedly. And I am from a poorer country than the devs).

Someone, I forget who, said in this or the other thread, that what casual gamers consume in weeks, a hardcore gamer blows through in hours or days.
There is more casual than hardcore players, that is a known fact, yet the content seems to be designed to keep the hardcores happy rather than provide incentive for the casuals.

Borghal.1635:

tolunart.2095:

Borghal.1635:

But I still think they are way too expensive in a game that was supposed to be not so grind-heavy. Legendaries are the epitome of grind, buy or craft, doesn’t matter.

Somewhere along the line they realized that for a lot of traditional MMO players, the grind is the game. Without the carrot dangling just out of reach, they get bored and wander away. And players who don’t log in won’t spend money on the game…

There’s truth in what you say. But in this case for most players the stick is not a foot long, it’s a mile. Such players won’t spend money on the game either – they might buy the stuff they won’t grind, sure, but probably not at the prices the TP enforces (That’s just my speculation, admittedly. And I am from a poorer country than the devs).

Someone, I forget who, said in this or the other thread, that what casual gamers consume in weeks, a hardcore gamer blows through in hours or days.
There is more casual than hardcore players, that is a known fact, yet the content seems to be designed to keep the hardcores happy rather than provide incentive for the casuals.

I said it.

95% of the game, the loot and so on is accessible to everyone whether they spend an hour a week playing, or 12 hours a day. Because it’s accessible to everyone, everyone pretty much ignores that stuff.

Legendaries, the weapons skins from Halloween 2012, ascended gear, these things are not accessible to everyone. They are in limited supply, or they take some planning and effort to obtain. These are the things people complain about, because they were intended to reward players who are more dedicated to the game than the average, casual player.

The real hardcore players aren’t here complaining about them, they already got those things a year ago. The hardcore wannabees want the “stuff” that hardcores have, they just don’t want to make a hardcore effort to get them. Thus the complaints.

I’m a casual player, and I don’t want, or care about, the things that were put into the game to satisfy hardcore players. I believe that if you want the things the hardcores have, you should be prepared to make the same efforts the hardcores do to get them.

Or, if you don’t want to make the effort, then you need to get a lot of gold, and pay someone to make the effort for you.

tolunart.2095:

I said it.

95% of the game, the loot and so on is accessible to everyone whether they spend an hour a week playing, or 12 hours a day. Because it’s accessible to everyone, everyone pretty much ignores that stuff.

Legendaries, the weapons skins from Halloween 2012, ascended gear, these things are not accessible to everyone. They are in limited supply, or they take some planning and effort to obtain. These are the things people complain about, because they were intended to reward players who are more dedicated to the game than the average, casual player.

The real hardcore players aren’t here complaining about them, they already got those things a year ago. The hardcore wannabees want the “stuff” that hardcores have, they just don’t want to make a hardcore effort to get them. Thus the complaints.

I’m a casual player, and I don’t want, or care about, the things that were put into the game to satisfy hardcore players. I believe that if you want the things the hardcores have, you should be prepared to make the same efforts the hardcores do to get them.

95%? I disagree and it is actually easy to verify – open up the wardrobe in a bank and rummage through skins of any sort – they’re sets, after all, so the item type doesn’t matter and there’s probably not a huge disparity between weapons/armor.
I’ll save you the trouble, I like looking at skins :-)
There’s roughly 100 varieties of staves in the game.
How many of those cost more than 100g to obtain?
Aetherblade, Bloody Prince, Dreamthistle, Fused, Sclerite, Scythe, Bifrost, Crossing, Legend, Winter’s Timber, Xanthium, Zodiac staff.
12 pieces.
Now factor in stuff that is simply unobtainable because it was tied to events:
Gnarled walking staff, Kasmeer’s, King toad’s, Storm Wizard’s, Super

You get 17 out of 95… basically, 20% is unavailable to most players. It is hard to present a convincing argument about what number is good – to me 5% – 10% would be ok, but 20% is too much.

I’m talking about the game, not the skins. How many zones are unavailable to the average player? Fractals?

How many enemies are unkillable by the average player?

How many events are unavailable to the average player?

The vast majority of activities, loot and locations are open to anyone.

Loot? I got a Dusk from the Shadow Behemoth – 0 gold. I got Final Rest several times, once when it was still worth something, 0 gold. I’ve farmed keys for various BLTC weapon skins, 0 gold.

And it’s actually 95.64%. I measured the entire game. Really.

Well then, you’re the only one talking about the game activities in a discussion that revolves around expensive items on the trading post. No-one disputed the availability of activities.

And bringing RNG to the table is pointless. It works out for the economy, it does not work out for player experience. For each one of you that dropped Dusk, there are hundreds upon thousands of players that have never seen such a valuable drop.

Good thing it’s only 17.9% then. :P

How many of those are claim ticket skins? Bifrost and The Legend aren’t. Neither is Xanthium (currently unattainable) and The Crossing. Some were tied to specific events that have past and are also unattainable by another means.

As for skins, the most expensive pure skin for staffs is fused at about 450g. Which at current exchange rates is roughly $87. Yes, outrageous. That same $87 can by roughly 80 keys. Trust me you aren’t going to get the 7 tickets you need for that skin from the 80 chests those keys unlock. More likely you will get only half the number you would need.

EVE players freaked out over a $60 cosmetic piece in their subscription game yet we simply grumble over skins that have a real dollar cost over twice that.

Behellagh.1468:

Neither is Xanthium (currently unattainable)

I think that one is attainable. Since I just dropped a dagger from the same series in TA Aetherpath I assume the staff would drop too… or was it taken out of the loot tables for some reason? That would explain its obscene price.

Behellagh.1468:

As for skins, the most expensive pure skin for staffs is fused at about 450g. Which at current exchange rates is roughly $87. Yes, outrageous. That same $87 can by roughly 80 keys. Trust me you aren’t going to get the 7 tickets you need for that skin from the 80 chests those keys unlock. More likely you will get only half the number you would need.

I read somewhere that the drops are around 1 ticket in 20-30 chests and the same amounts to scraps. So that makes it 7 tickets ~ at least 100 keys ~ 8 000 gems. To actually BUY the skin by converting gems to gold – 6 500 gems.
So I suppose in the end people should be thanked for putting it up on the TP? :P Either way the price is insane :-)

Sorry, my mistake then, I thought that was only available during the particular LS arc. Still the number of players running that is considerably lower which still means it’s extremely rare and extremely rare means it’s going to be expensive so I see the TP working as intended.

The complaint is really that only a relative few have accumulated enough wealth to afford to buy it and that number is matches with the injection rate, otherwise the price would have dropped to attract buyers.

^^ Yes, that is true. Only I would reword it such that too much of the game’s content is available only to a select few. I would love to have numbers on this, but I bet they don’t match, i.e. the 20% of difficult to attain items is not obtainable for at least 20% of the pl;ayers.

And this being a game, I would expect a system even more forgiving than that.

Behellagh.1468:

Sorry, my mistake then, I thought that was only available during the particular LS arc. Still the number of players running that is considerably lower which still means it’s extremely rare and extremely rare means it’s going to be expensive so I see the TP working as intended.

The complaint is really that only a relative few have accumulated enough wealth to afford to buy it and that number is matches with the injection rate, otherwise the price would have dropped to attract buyers.

old skins price increases based on the amount sold supposedly. or time or something
anyhow fused skins now cost 7 tickets.
scraps are about 1/5 chests
tickets are about 1/100

so on average 40 chests will get you a ticket, give or take, but you would need 7 tickets soo thats 280 chests.

The only reason these arent beyond super expensive is due to heightened supply from key runners. If they ever kill the key farm, the prices will be ridiculous.

Behellagh.1468:

EVE players freaked out over a $60 cosmetic piece in their subscription game yet we simply grumble over skins that have a real dollar cost over twice that.

Yeah, my preferred method is to do key runs whenever, and save the tickets/scraps until they release new skins for 1 ticket each, or put existing skins on sale for reasonable ticket prices, and get skins for use/sale that way.

I don’t consider buying gems with the goal of obtaining “full price” ticket skins to be realistic… maybe for the cheap ones (Wintersday and Sclerite?) but there’s a reason why they’re cheaper.

Of course, the previous method was to obtain them during a specific window by grinding/buying rng boxes, the skins weren’t sellable so you either got one or you were out of luck.

Borghal.1635:

^^ Yes, that is true. Only I would reword it such that too much of the game’s content is available only to a select few. I would love to have numbers on this, but I bet they don’t match, i.e. the 20% of difficult to attain items is not obtainable for at least 20% of the pl;ayers.

And this being a game, I would expect a system even more forgiving than that.

In most MMOs, the most rare and desired items are locked behind specific requirements, like gear that drops only from a specific raid boss. So you get to max level, join a group doing the raid, hope that the item you want drops, and then compete with other players to win that drop when it does happen. Most of the time you don’t get the loot you want, so you go back next week and do it again, and again…

Is this system better than gather loot anywhere, sell it on the TP, and use the money to buy the item you want? I have never been interested in raiding, so those items will simply never be available to me no matter how long I play the game. I find GW2 to be much more forgiving and provide more opportunities to get the things I want.

Borghal.1635:

^^ Yes, that is true. Only I would reword it such that too much of the game’s content is available only to a select few. I would love to have numbers on this, but I bet they don’t match, i.e. the 20% of difficult to attain items is not obtainable for at least 20% of the pl;ayers.

And this being a game, I would expect a system even more forgiving than that.

You still mistake fancy skins for core game content, which is not the case. Everything in this game, except high level fractals can be completed and is enjoyable in rare/exotic gear, which is easy enough to attain, no matter how you look.

I would say it has been overstated to exhaustion that skins are among the main endgame goals in this game, and that’s how I look at them.

Borghal.1635:

I would say it has been overstated to exhaustion that skins are among the main endgame goals in this game, and that’s how I look at them.

You’re welcome to your opinion. Your endgame, then, involves spending a lot of gold. Since I don’t give a flying backwards kitten about those fancy skins, mine does not.

Borghal.1635:

I would say it has been overstated to exhaustion that skins are among the main endgame goals in this game, and that’s how I look at them.

You do know the difference between end game content and goals, right?

Soo….
If there was an oversupply of silk…

John Smith said he would “fix” it and just pushed demanded silk to 3X other materials (i would argue lot more since silk is used even on heavy and can t be gathered).

What are his plans for sigils, runes and precursors?

Let me guess…. nothing!

Also stop calling legendaries skins since we had a dev in www stating they added stat change to make Legendaries MORE THAN SKINS.

A poor player can in WWW achieve something like 20% less efficience because lacks several hundred golds…..

This makes economy BAD.

Yea legendaries’ price are just out of control these days..

phys.7689:

do you think people would be happy living at minimal standards in real life?

game life sustenance health care etc, comes down to enjoying the game. If many people start to find the game unenjoyable due to the reward structure, that is a problem.

Rewards are supposed to enhance your experience, not hinder it.

There is no particularly polite way to put this, but I’ll try my best:

If the rewards that other people get are able to detract from the rewards that you got simply because you noticed those rewards, you need professional psychiatric help because that is NOT normal.

The rewards that other people get in this game have ABSOLUTELY no bearing on the rewards you get. Enjoy the rewards you get and ignore what others are getting because others are not impacting you.

To me the problems are:

(1) they said that they would nerf gold generation from champ bags, but they didn’t, outside of a few popular trains

(2) Megaserver has limited the amount of rates people get in a day. The world boss train is nerfed until people figure out how to replace the job that the API once did.

(3) a lot of people are doing pvp right now, which primarily rewards silver.

So the silver is coming in, but the materials (which used to come from the now nerfed trains) and ectoplasms aren’t coming in. The price of everything you pay silver for is increasing. I would prefer to see a silver nerf on the rest of champ bags, as well as new sinks for silver.

mtpelion.4562:

phys.7689:

do you think people would be happy living at minimal standards in real life?

game life sustenance health care etc, comes down to enjoying the game. If many people start to find the game unenjoyable due to the reward structure, that is a problem.

Rewards are supposed to enhance your experience, not hinder it.

There is no particularly polite way to put this, but I’ll try my best:

If the rewards that other people get are able to detract from the rewards that you got simply because you noticed those rewards, you need professional psychiatric help because that is NOT normal.

The rewards that other people get in this game have ABSOLUTELY no bearing on the rewards you get. Enjoy the rewards you get and ignore what others are getting because others are not impacting you.

First of all i dont get how you made some connection to me looking at other peoples rewards, from that quote or any thing i have said.

its not about the rewards that other people get. Its about what most people have to do to get them. In order to get endgame rewards at a bearable pace, one must grind gold. If your goal is to get said endgame shineys, you must become a merchant or a hardcore grinder. Rewards are designed with this in mind.

I dont care how 200 people chose to get their endgame gear, some grinded some tped, some bought it, some got lucky. I care about how the game entices you to play the best and most interesting content.

reward design is part of game design, its not seperate, you design your rewards to give people things they want, and give it to them for playing well/as you design.

examples of good rewards, tournaments in magic which award card packs with wins, the more you win in a tournament, the more cards you get.
See, rewarded for playing the game well.

hate to say it, but WoW, not so much the stats themselves, but the using of these stat rewards to guide people to the best designed content in the game, and set up a progression from one to the next.

FFXI – rewards for completing story content to unlock areas, and then grouping up to take on difficult/epic fights

Disgaia rewards items and exp, which you can use to unlock new charachters and skills and delve deeper into the world

Virtua fighter V, where through repeated play, weird fight happenings, and defeating content and a dash of luck, you can unlock extreme charachter customization.

point is a well designed reward structure, does 2 things, it gives the type of rewards the player would want if they are interested in certain content, and it leads them to those types of content.

The fact that the TP is incredibly more effecient at getting these items, detracts from the other content. It makes people play the game in ways that dont reinforce gameplay. Instead of the rewards leading you to the type of gameplay that fits them, they lead you away from it.

phys.7689:

The fact that the TP is incredibly more effecient at getting these items, detracts from the other content. It makes people play the game in ways that dont reinforce gameplay. Instead of the rewards leading you to the type of gameplay that fits them, they lead you away from it.

This is simply not true. The TP basically enables everybody to choose the value of his loot drops by putting a price tag on it.
If somebody chooses to sell his Item to the highest buy offer of 1s and the trader who bought it and lists it at 2s, the trader gets shunned because he made 85% profit for little effort. If the player would have listed at 2s, he would have gotten 100% more value for his loot at the same time the trader only made 85% profit. But nobody would complain about the player making 100% more profit…

phys.7689:

First of all i dont get how you made some connection to me looking at other peoples rewards, from that quote or any thing i have said.

I challenged someone’s use of wealth disparity (looking at other people’s rewards), you replied to that, then I replied to you. That’s where the connection came from. Sorry if that’s not what you were talking about, I assumed it was related based on the chain of quoting.

its not about the rewards that other people get. Its about what most people have to do to get them. In order to get endgame rewards at a bearable pace, one must grind gold. If your goal is to get said endgame shineys, you must become a merchant or a hardcore grinder. Rewards are designed with this in mind.

All rewards are created by adventuring or farming. If you want to get them from another player, you have to offer something that they want. To this end, gold acts as an exchange medium that allows you to convert your apples into The Most Awesome Sword of All Time. Will converting apples take a long time? Yes. If that is a problem for you, then don’t farm apple, farm something else.

The fact that the TP is incredibly more effecient at getting these items, detracts from the other content. It makes people play the game in ways that dont reinforce gameplay. Instead of the rewards leading you to the type of gameplay that fits them, they lead you away from it.

Exchange systems are always more efficient, that’s why people invented them. If you had to make bricks to pay your brain surgeon, you’d never get your surgery. They are a tool that you use to get what you want. They are not rewards in and of themselves.

The megaserver introduction to Cursed Shore last night will ‘destroy’ gold acquisition. What was once the best way to make gold outside of the TP will push the gold acquisition to TP flipping, arah dungeon selling and dungeon runs.

Expect T6 prices to skyrocket since people will no longer know when to farm and opportunities will be limited once every 1hr 45. Not to mention the maps are going to be zerged like primetime on BG/JQ/TC.

I cannot force myself to play a game that I cannot enjoy anymore. I will be going on a hiatus until megaservers are fixed. I guess I can hope that my investments pay off and give me some guaranteed income while I’m elsewhere.

Vol.7601:

The megaserver introduction to Cursed Shore last night will ‘destroy’ gold acquisition. What was once the best way to make gold outside of the TP will push the gold acquisition to TP flipping, arah dungeon selling and dungeon runs.

Expect T6 prices to skyrocket since people will no longer know when to farm and opportunities will be limited once every 1hr 45. Not to mention the maps are going to be zerged like primetime on BG/JQ/TC.

I cannot force myself to play a game that I cannot enjoy anymore. I will be going on a hiatus until megaservers are fixed. I guess I can hope that my investments pay off and give me some guaranteed income while I’m elsewhere.

Take Care.

Stone.6751:

Each time I read a post like this I’m more and more convinced that the players who get really upset about not having enough gold are all really just frustrated that they can’t get a Legendary weapon easily.

Yep. You’ll also notice they come out in force whenever there’s a big shock that affects the precursor market, like the wardrobe did – precursor prices spike in response to much higher demand, and the economy is falling apart all around us. Cats living with dogs and all that, what is the world coming to?

I like all the expert claiming price will drop and we will have a long time of deflation. Just because the theoretically 80% gold supply nerf from champ bag.

I think they over simplified the economy model. I think there is a deflation for say “maybe” the gem-exchange. But many other thing the inflation is even worse because the supply of crafting material supply also decrease.

Ensign.2189:

Stone.6751:

Each time I read a post like this I’m more and more convinced that the players who get really upset about not having enough gold are all really just frustrated that they can’t get a Legendary weapon easily.

Yep. You’ll also notice they come out in force whenever there’s a big shock that affects the precursor market, like the wardrobe did – precursor prices spike in response to much higher demand, and the economy is falling apart all around us. Cats living with dogs and all that, what is the world coming to?

ya but does it ever occur to you that there is just less t5 material in games. Not saying what you say is wrong. But there is also other things to consider.

laokoko.7403:

I like all the expert claiming price will drop and we will have a long time of deflation. Just because the theoretically 80% gold supply nerf from champ bag.

I think they over simplified the economy model. I think there is a deflation for say “maybe” the gem-exchange. But many other thing the inflation is even worse because the supply of crafting material supply also decrease.

That’s what they said would happen, but that’s not what actually happened.

Got 10s from bosses in HoTW story, which is just champion after champion… Got lots of silver from EoTM bosses, which are being zerged more than ever… The gold nerf that was supposed to happen didn’t happen.

Deflation isn’t coming.

TLDR – The effect of the update increased demand, kept money supply current, but decreased supply. Although the net effect in the macro sense may be neutral because increased value may offset decreased item generation, the arbitrary nature of the reward systems may cause people to stop engaging in economic activity and withdraw from the market. This could drive deflation or general economic paralysis by encouraging people to hoard for a legendary/gems/premium item, and buy nothing else.

Full version:
In thinking about the update, a few macro fundamentals are important to keep in mind. The first is the rate at which currency (gold) is introduced into the economy. The second is the rate at which currency leaves the economy. The third is what currency is actually used for in the game – items, and how they are introduced into the game.

The introduction of the megaserver will have a minor, negative impact on currency generation. The megaserver nerfed world boss farming (RIP world boss train), which provided rewards primarily through the guaranteed rares and useful mats (or rares converted to ecto), which were sold on the TP for pre-existing currency. The only impact on currency generation would come from the few silver that came from event completion and from vendoring trash/blues/greens: fewer events and items → less coin generated.

The champ bag nerf had a more direct effect on currency generation. Although this will have a stronger impact on the people who endlessly trained in FGS/QD, I think it will have more limited on the economy as a whole, and will be balanced out by the increased dungeon and PVP rewards, as well as the armor cost removal.

Similarly, the recent patch didn’t do much to impact the rate at which currency leaves the system. I suspect armor costs were largely nickel and dimining people anyways, which is why they got axed.

Where I suspect the patch will have the biggest impact is on item #3, the supply of valuable items. Increased demand due to wardrobe system + decreased supply of rares (thus indirectly nerfing (a) precursor availability through forging/reduced drop rate from world bosses and (b)ecto supply from salvage) and mats used for making special skins will result in higher prices, at least in some areas.

So, if people can generate about the same amount of currency as before, but items are more scarce, this is really a distributional issue. I think for many people, myself included, wealth was generated by selling drops on the TP. But remember, there is a player on each side of any TP transaction. So the benefit will primarily accrue (a) in an arbitrary fashion, to random people who luck out with a good drop, or (b) people who make good investment decisions with time-limited skins.

The economic consequences will thus turn on how people react to greater item scarcity. Price levels tend to be sticky, and only change over time. Moreso in this game, where sellers are stuck with a sunk cost in the item listing fee. But if people perceive that it will be harder to obtain the item that they want, it may reduce overall economic participation, which in turn could lead to broad deflation.

For instance, I used to run the WBT to obtain rares, which I would then sell and save the proceeds to purchase precursors. Now I don’t think its worthwhile to farm bosses because the opportunity cost, in terms of fun/time, is too great vis-a-vis how long it would take me to buy a precursor at the new, higher price level. So, now I’m no longer generating as much currency as I used to, and incidentially, the psychological effect has made me much more miserly with how I spend money in general (the wealth effect). Another example – before the patch, I would drop 50g on a dye or gems because I thought I could make it up with a reasonable effort. Now, not so much.

The same could be true for champ farming if reducing coin drops killed the incentive for more risk averse players, even though the net effect may be broadly unchanged. Paradoxically, it would drive income inequality by making the rich even richer.

As such, if too many people feel that currency has become too dear and thus stop engaging in market transactions, deflation could take hold across the economy. To be certain, the price of some status items like legendaries and the incidentals like t6 mats may remain high, but the price I am willing to pay for all other goods has fallen. In effect, you will see a two-tier economy – skyrocketing premium items, while collateral markets falter.

Of course, the role of gold <—> gems conversion could have an effect on all of this. If desireable items are on the gem store and people are not willing to buy gems with dollars, this could exacerbate the deflationary spiral. Conversely, if people are willing to convert dollars into gems and then into gold, then it will abate deflationary pressure. I’m sure anet would love the latter.

HallusH.3987:

aside that fact, the game now is the most grinding game out there and the RNG progress is just sad.

Such over exaggerations make everything you type questionable. If you have a point to make, try avoid mixing in blatant falsehoods to support your claims….

Seems like the prices of legendaries are dropping slightly?

laokoko.7403:

ya but does it ever occur to you that there is just less t5 material in games.

It is possible that, controlling for everything else, there are simply less t5 materials in game now, and that fall in supply explains the higher prices.

While we do not have the data to check it explicitly, I’ll point out that prices rose before the patch hit, not after; while it is possible that the price of t5 mats rose due to expectations of a future shortage, I find that unconvincing next to the argument that a higher demand for precursors under the upcoming wardrobe system has driven the price up.

I would need a better argument before I paid much heed to the falling supply hypothesis.

laokoko.7403:

I like all the expert claiming price will drop and we will have a long time of deflation. Just because the theoretically 80% gold supply nerf from champ bag.

I think they over simplified the economy model. I think there is a deflation for say “maybe” the gem-exchange. But many other thing the inflation is even worse because the supply of crafting material supply also decrease.

To talk about inflation you need to have a basket of items. If your basket of items is the set of things required for a legendary, then yes — this basket of items has seen some inflation in prices. But if your basket of items is exotic gear, then there has been significant deflation.

If you were starting out, which would you consider more important?

Just play naked and kick enemies in the shins

linuxotaku.4731:

To talk about inflation you need to have a basket of items.

Not only do you need a basket of items, but you need a compelling argument that your basket of items is representative of the entire population of items. The price movements of some basket of items that you chose for some other reason do not necessarily have any relationship with underlying inflation.