Guild Wars 2

VideoGamermike.5813:

Finally, let me make something clear, THIS IS NOT SOME BASIS IN ALTRUISM. I do feel like some items I can’t sell, because the prices are too bloated. Thats not being some grand hero, thats me being uncomfortable and feeling like I’m cheating. It’s more akin to refusing to use a memory hacker for free gold, just because everyone else is. I feel bad cheating the game and people, if that means I can’t trade that item…oh well. I don’t get how people think, ‘i dont want to cheat’ somehow turns to being a grand ‘hero of the people’

People have this impression because you have given them the impression so far that you are trying to help people out. If you just feel bad selling the items at that price, I hope my above explanation helped clarify why the price is what it is. Gounging certainly does occur, but it rarely lasts long because the market is fairly robust. The invisible hand always plays its role.

If you do just want to help people out, I would echo the recommendation of others to join a guild that does donations and go that route. The trading post is the way it needs to be to protect the market.

VideoGamermike.5813:

And smith, this is where you and me disagree. You’re system does have a very serious flaw, it can’t adapt if the market changes and people like me arent comfortable going by old standards.
I do not have the same reasoning, situation, availability, location, or temporment, to many of the reasons for pricing that people set here. As such, my laws of pricing will be drastically different, some items(like armor/weapons) a bit more expensive, while the junk trophies worth little to nothing, with scale to consider the difficulty of level. The problem is, if the prices are set in stone by a bunch of precious transaction, the market is unable to change, because the people like me who aren’t comfortable with selling on these levels, have no means of influencing it.
Look, I get what you’re saying, and yes, there can some market problems(especially market dumping and scams) when given absolute freedom. But that’s going to happen, and being so afraid of market flops and economic changes that you disallow people to sell as they need to, just make a stagnant boring market that hardly ever changes. You’re defense has started to show the goal here to be way too stagnant and overly controlled, simply as a mean to stop market crashing. If you wanna kill trading to stop scammers, you’re already pushing it, but…this? How can I effect the market if it feels like I’m memory hacking anytime I use it.

I think John’s response was spot on here – it sounds like you may be a bit mislead as to how the trading post actually functions. If you check out gw2spidy, you will see that the market prices are most certainly not set in stone, and that price changes occur all the time. Players simply make offers for what they are willing to pay for an item, and other players can fulfill that or set a higher price. There is no reason to suspect people are being forced to be gouged and offering more than they want to.

And I should also mention that – and I hope this also does not come off as rude – but the integrity of the market actually is more important than some players’ (noble) desire to sell at cheaper prices. ArenaNet is right to take every measure they can to ensure that market crashes do not occur, because the impact would be much higher on the playerbase than a few players being a bit upset that they can’t sell things for cheaper.

I also think it is very nice that you are operating under the assumption that players who honestly need jute would buy it for your cheaper price, but unfortunately – and again, please do not take personal offense to this – it’s just a bit naive. There are far too many sharks in the marketplace who would buy it up right away and flip it immediately for its market price. Even if you could do it, you would likely only give a rich person more gold by selling them for cheaper!

I know you said that was your last post, but I hope you were able to read this and make a bit more sense of the topic. Feel free to message me instead of posting if you’d like, and we can talk through anything that doesn’t make sense.

Mystic.5934:

If you want to sell these for 50c each, give me a PM and we can deal.
I also extend this courtesy to any item you want to sell for half of what the TP wants to rob from people.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/These-forums-are-not-a-grey-market/first#post913290

Wanze.8410:

Mystic.5934:

If you want to sell these for 50c each, give me a PM and we can deal.
I also extend this courtesy to any item you want to sell for half of what the TP wants to rob from people.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/These-forums-are-not-a-grey-market/first#post913290

This whole mess could be fixed if the OP just deleted all his items. If he feels like he’s cheating people by selling items at market value, what better way to rebel against the system than to reduce his portion of the market supply.

OP- I think one of the major things you are missing with your valuing of items is the ability to convert one item into another, often into top-tier late game items. This directly influences the values of even the simplest seeming items.

For example: The shredded rag can be salvaged into 1-3 jute scraps. Jute scrap can be converted into Wool Scraps, and Wool Scraps are needed to create Bolt of Damask. Bolts of Damask are needed to create Ascended Armor, the highest tier of level 80 armor. So your basic Jute Scraps are usable toward the best armor in the game.

On the other hand, Cinnamon sticks are used exclusively for cooking, and pretty much only in early recipes. Once you surpass that level of cooking, your need for cinnamon as a player disappears forever. They have almost no value because they have no late-game use.

AtriustheGod.6785:

On the other hand, Cinnamon sticks are used exclusively for cooking, and pretty much only in early recipes. Once you surpass that level of cooking, your need for cinnamon as a player disappears forever. They have almost no value because they have no late-game use.

Which is a darn shame, because I put cinnamon on tons of level 80 food in real life.

I know right? It’s such a good spice IRL.

You have to understand, too, that the value of the shredded rag is not limited to its conversion to jute scraps. There are several elements at work that can contribute to the value staying high:

1) The actual, tangible value of the salvaged materials, as discussed.
2) The RNG gamble (I might get lucky and get more than average.)
3) The achievement points gained by salvaging (daily plus repetitive.)

So, if you’re an achievement point junkie, you might be willing to pay slightly more for the option of salvaging them yourself, just because it’ll contribute to more than one cause.

VideoGamermike.5813:

The problem is, if the prices are set in stone by a bunch of precious transaction, the market is unable to change, because the people like me who aren’t comfortable with selling on these levels, have no means of influencing it.

This is simple.

Simply don’t match the highest seller.

Problem solved.

You assume that they are set in stone when you opt-in to matching the highest seller.

Source:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trading_Post#Selling

“You can also place a custom offer different from either of the above. "

mtpelion.4562:

I think it should be pointed out that you are not forced to do anything. You have the option of destroying, salvaging and using, or vendoring those scraps. Your choice to hurt yourself by not selling at the current price due to your misunderstanding of basic economic principles is a self-inflicted problem that we won’t be able to assist you with.

Beautiful.

VideoGamermike.5813:

I’m not angry about the economy. In fact, I don’t care about the price, at all, it’s worthless for me so I’ll just save my money and get it myself. The cost of quick jumps across Tyria is smaller than what I would have to pay in market(so to speak.) No, what I’m frustrated at, is what I’m forced to do.
These are items I’m more or less just throwing away as junk half the time, I wanted to put them in the market because there are likely players who aren’t a bit overstocked in copper like I am, so I figured I could throw out some cheap salvage for people who needed them, while still making a handy profit, a lot more than I would get in shops. Instead, I got pushed to sell my items at prices that in no way reflect that idea, or even how I got it. I feel like I’m being pushed into cheating people out of their money by means of ‘market value.’ THATS where my problem is, for those people who arent able to get many of those items and -only- get them from the market, yes, the market value is by essence, the only way they can think about a profit, but thats not me. I’m out getting these items, it takes no effort at all to get these items, there more or less -trash- to me.
See what I’m getting at? why should I be forced to sell at these prices when, I’m so far removed from the -reasons- for those prices, that I’m jsut robbing people blind. I feel like I’m cheating the game, myself, and others…because the market value says so. -thats- my problem. If I’m underselling because I want to..why not? Are we that afraid people purposely collapsing a market that we end up not letting people make what they consider to be fair trades? I don’t transmute my items, I dont need to, see where I’m getting at?

But I digress, thank you for the actual response, I just wish some of the players would have done so…rather than just insult me with on sentence…why even post if that’s all you’re going to do.

If I understand correctly, the issue you’re referring to is the buy order system, where you’re seeking to list items at a lower price than their market price (established by player demand) based on the value you attribute to them, and your listing is instead sold to a buy order placed by another player at a higher price than your intended sell listing? So the price you are establishing based on your own interpretations of value and demand is being overridden by the price others are willing to pay for it? Genuine question, as I’ve never tried to list something lower than the buy order price (with exception to listing without buy orders, which I just vendor).

So, market and value (convenience, time, effort, demand, etc) aside, you’re wanting to undercut other sellers and sell for a lower amount than the existing buy orders from players, to reach out to players that don’t have the funds to place a higher buy order for items like jute and copper? Unfortunately, even if you were able to sell at lower rates than the buy offers, your items would likely be purchased and flipped for profit as opposed to going to those that could afford them.

VideoGamermike.5813:

The problem is, if the prices are set in stone by a bunch of precious transaction, the market is unable to change, because the people like me who aren’t comfortable with selling on these levels, have no means of influencing it.

The sell now price has no consideration for previous transactions. The sell now prices is entirely controlled by buy orders. Similarly the buy now price is entirely controlled by sale orders.

It is true that sell now, can not be controlled by sellers. Likewise buy now cannot be controlled by buyers. It is also true that the sell now, puts a floor to the offer price, and the buy now puts a ceiling to the bid price. You might not like it, but it has to work that way.

This occurs because the system must fill the highest (then oldest) bid with the lowest (then oldest) offer, and they have to be made equal, otherwise money would simply vanish into the trading post beyond the normal transaction fees.

Now, lets say we allow you to sell below the sell now price.
Some one puts 1s into a buy bid , and later it gets filled by a sale offer of 50c(after fees). So the trading post will take 1s as specified in the buy bid and give the seller 50c as specified in the sale offer. What do you do with the extra 50c simply have it vanish? Or, perhaps we can reimburse one of the parties in the sale.

But which one? The seller, the buyer, the first to put in the order, the last to put in the order? Or perhaps split the difference? Anet’s chooses to reimburse the last to place the order. Why choose that? Simple, it is the cleanest way to do it because you are only altering the newest order instead of retroactively changing a previous order.

Why is it cleaner, lets take a look at the situation you suggest you want to do.
At time 1. bid placed at 75c.
At time 2. bid placed at 100c.
At time 3. offer placed at 50c.
So we have the ability to create a match for trade at time 3. If we choose to honor the newest order a 50c offer, then how do we choose which bid to fill? Both bids meet the offer price. The bid at time 2 is higher, but the bid at time 1 is older. Choose 1 because it is older. That is not right because the purpose of offering a higher bid, is so that your order can be filled first. Choose 2 because it is higher, but actually, they are now paying less than bid 1, so why do they get to pay less and be filled first over the older bid?
Choosing either the bid a time 1 or time 2 over one another is unfair.

In no case, should an older order by modified to clear a trade. Otherwise the previous ambiguous situation can occur.

This also works in the same way for buying. If I place a buy bid of 1s but there is an existing sale offer of 50c, my bid, the newest order (the buy bid), is modified to 50c. The trading post works, by modifying newest order to equalize a trade. The buy now price is the highest possible bid price, and the sell now price is the lowest possible offer price to maintain clean transactions without any ambiguous decision making.

mtpelion.4562:

AtriustheGod.6785:

On the other hand, Cinnamon sticks are used exclusively for cooking, and pretty much only in early recipes. Once you surpass that level of cooking, your need for cinnamon as a player disappears forever. They have almost no value because they have no late-game use.

Which is a darn shame, because I put cinnamon on tons of level 80 food in real life.

I can think of one case where cinnamon is used in high level cooking. It is used in making pumpkin pie spice, which is in turn used to make sweet and spicy butternut squash soup (a 1hr level 80 +100 Power +10% Critical Damage food, takes a recipe and chef 400).

JS has explained how the TP works, and that it was an intentional decision. It works well, so I don’t see any real need to change it.

That said, I DO kind of see the appeal in what the OP wants. It would be interesting to be able to really shake up a market by having the ability to sell to orders below the current highest offer. However, that’s getting more into the Auction House-style of trading, which I think could come with its own set of issues. (“Blacklisting” a certain seller or buyer through smear campaigns etc.)