Guild Wars 2

I actually just got Dawn from the Mystic Toilet. I put in 30 rare greatswords, and my last 4 gave me Dawn. So, someone buy it so I can get Zap, please. :P

Well you do know that the TP is across all NA servers so that’s a lot of people to get lucky with the mystic forge. So it’s not necessarily finding the sweet spot, it’s the fact that you got what 15 servers(guessing atm since I’m not ingame) with X amount of people on the servers all “playing” be it MF, dungeons, farming, etc etc.

SallyStitches.4096:

I actually just got Dawn from the Mystic Toilet. I put in 30 rare greatswords, and my last 4 gave me Dawn. So, someone buy it so I can get Zap, please. :P

And there ya go, you are one of the lucky ones. 30 tries for you vs 500 tries for the OP. The only guaranteed way atm to get a precursor is grind your kitten off and buy one. That’s what I did for dawn and kudzu. Of course now i’m taking it easy since grinding gold for those 2 precursors plus the other mats kinda took it out of me

Sauzo.6821:

Well you do know that the TP is across all NA servers so that’s a lot of people to get lucky with the mystic forge. So it’s not necessarily finding the sweet spot, it’s the fact that you got what 15 servers(guessing atm since I’m not ingame) with X amount of people on the servers all “playing” be it MF, dungeons, farming, etc etc.

This is incorrect. The Trading Post is actually global and covers ALL servers, not just North American ones.

Sauzo.6821:

SallyStitches.4096:

I actually just got Dawn from the Mystic Toilet. I put in 30 rare greatswords, and my last 4 gave me Dawn. So, someone buy it so I can get Zap, please. :P

And there ya go, you are one of the lucky ones. 30 tries for you vs 500 tries for the OP. The only guaranteed way atm to get a precursor is grind your kitten off and buy one. That’s what I did for dawn and kudzu. Of course now i’m taking it easy since grinding gold for those 2 precursors plus the other mats kinda took it out of me

I know, I got extremely lucky. I couldn’t believe it. I was grinding, but I was also saving up greatswords I acquired, just for giggles to throw into the forge. I expected a few exotics at least. Anyway, I hope it sells. Now I’m regretting not just fulfilling a buy order, but I have to wait it out because it was 30g to list it. >_<

I think this thread has some of the best discussion yet on the subject of wealth gap, PvE vs TP earnings, and reward structure going forward.

A few random thoughts I have after reading through this, sorry it isn’t more organized…

TP warriors will most likely always earn more than farmers. As a guildy once told me, I don’t farm mobs, I farm farmers. I’m not sure anyone here is saying this can be changed completely but the compromise is making general PvE rewards feel like it is a close comparison.

Minimum of 1 rare per world boss chests give the feeling that rewards are better. Even though rares have decreased in value since this was implemented by roughly 20-30% people enjoy seeing the rarer loot.

Some ideas for drop or item aquisition: Soulbind on use is acceptable. Accountbind on use or aquire is acceptable. Soulbind on aquire is not acceptable. This makes drops of item types not usable by your profession at least somewhat valuable for alts and alts need all the love they can get right now.

There will always be a “most efficient” run/speedclear/method for making money in PvE. Currently it is CoF P1. The main issue is that the most efficient run should not be substantially better than the next best option.

The TP creates a dependence on other players to farm needed items for you rather than allowing a player to get them themselves. Anet loves to use stacks of 250 of something for recipes rather than more reasonable amounts. It would be good from an individual player’s perspective if it were a more difficult decision to either farm something or buy the items rather than the current state of having to buy them.

I would like to see more PvE rewards mimic those of SAB. The ability to get a random drop or the same item via tradable tokens seems to be welcomed by many PvE players and may help with the feeling of accomplishment and reward.

And one last idea that I’m not sure I really like because we have more than enough currencies already…What is the one numeric value that players of all parts of the game (PvE, Wvw, etc.) use to compare themselves to others as well as against in game accomplisments? What if somehow achievement points were used to purchase high end rewards? I think I would be more in favor of it if fewer of the points came from daily and monthly rewards and a higher portion from in game activities but thought I would at least mention the idea.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Sauzo.6821:

Well you do know that the TP is across all NA servers so that’s a lot of people to get lucky with the mystic forge. So it’s not necessarily finding the sweet spot, it’s the fact that you got what 15 servers(guessing atm since I’m not ingame) with X amount of people on the servers all “playing” be it MF, dungeons, farming, etc etc.

This is incorrect. The Trading Post is actually global and covers ALL servers, not just North American ones.

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that the EU servers utilized a separate trading post system from the NA servers.

JK Arrow.7102:

TP warriors will most likely always earn more than farmers. As a guildy once told me, I don’t farm mobs, I farm farmers. I’m not sure anyone here is saying this can be changed completely but the compromise is making general PvE rewards feel like it is a close comparison.

Well I think you’re assuming that farming mobs and making money on the TP requires the same amount of work and skill, which I don’t believe is true. Farmers can (and many do) increase their profits be being smart about what items they farm and when and for how much they sell them. The reason there’s a gap in earnings is not because TP investing is inherently better, it’s that the folks involved in it that do make a lot of money put effort into researching the best way to get the most value, whether they’re purely working in buy/sell orders or whether they’re selling the items they found by farming.

JK Arrow.7102:

The TP creates a dependence on other players to farm needed items for you rather than allowing a player to get them themselves. Anet loves to use stacks of 250 of something for recipes rather than more reasonable amounts. It would be good from an individual player’s perspective if it were a more difficult decision to either farm something or buy the items rather than the current state of having to buy them.

So, you want folks to feel more rewarded for farming, but you want to reduce the market for the items they’re farming? I understand that lots of folks would rather find items than earn gold, but I think what you’re missing is that buying things on the TP is basically trading the stuff you find that you don’t want to someone that wants it, and getting what you want from someone else who found it and didn’t want it.

Currency is a good thing because it frees you from having to find and make everything yourself. You’re looking for armored scales, but oops, an exotic weapon drops. Are you just going to toss it in the bin, or are you going to sell it and buy some armored scales? That one weapon drop could represent 10 armored scales dropping from one mob, but only if you turn it into gold.

JK Arrow.7102:

What if somehow achievement points were used to purchase high end rewards?

I actually think this is in the works, but I don’t remember where I saw that so take it with a grain of salt.

Syeria.4812:

Charismatic Harm.9683:

This is incorrect. The Trading Post is actually global and covers ALL servers, not just North American ones.

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that the EU servers utilized a separate trading post system from the NA servers.

I think if that were true, Spidy would require you to put in which region you wanted to look at for price information.

(Edit – messed up the quoting)

The last bit about achievement points is actually in the works, but if i remember correctly it was part of a discussion about laurels and trading in those points for them.

Vol.5241:

This is really all silly.

There is no method for every single person in a MMO community to have the same gold/rate per hour based on what they’re doing unless you want to tear up the game and rebrand it as some other new genre.

You pretty much have to design a game that rewards people who spend their time in a game doing a certain activity.

Spend 3 hours in game doing nothing and afk? 10g for you in your mailbox!
Spend 3 hours in game pvping? 10g for you in your mailbox!
Spend 3 hours killing mobs for no apparent reason? 10g for you in your mailbox!

And then you’d spend that gold on things in game that have fixed prices.

But of course, we’d still have complainers who will say that they “don’t play as much and feel forced to play in order to progress”. Go look at laurels and dailies and how people are complaining that they’re missing out because they don’t play as much as a hardcore player.

Better yet, what’s the fun in that? You know you’ll be getting the same amount of gold as that botter, or that dragon farmer, or that guy who just afk’s in town all day. Why play? What’s the point? I think people would rather take the least stressful activity.

But all of the above is a moot point because it violates the constraint that we need a TP in the game.

This whole “PVE=TP in terms of rewards” notion is just a random suggestion that was not thought thoroughly, as with the majority of suggestions in MMO’s.

I think that the real issue is that the game is less rewarding for doing the activities listed in it’s advertisements than for flipping items on the TP. The situation, in my view, seems to parallel reality in some ways. For example, our society seems to value investment far more than labor. Just as GW2 values investment on the TP more than dungeon diving and PvE. Any economics arguments aside, this is a video game. It’s a bit disheartening to be working on your legendary for almost six months, hear your TP flipping buddy decided she wants one, then realize she’ll probably outpace you and finish her’s before you simply because she has more money to invest and therefore a lot more revenue. But that particular example just goes back to the root of the legendary issue – it’s purchasable. If it wasn’t possible to farm gold to your goal, then players playing the advertised game wouldn’t feel frustrated.

Blah, blah blah, stick “in my opinion” where ever you feel it’s needed in the above. I’m so sick of talking about this issue; if it weren’t for my guild I’d have already left this game.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Syeria.4812:

Charismatic Harm.9683:

This is incorrect. The Trading Post is actually global and covers ALL servers, not just North American ones.

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that the EU servers utilized a separate trading post system from the NA servers.

I think if that were true, Spidy would require you to put in which region you wanted to look at for price information.

(Edit – messed up the quoting)

I guess I just assumed that Spidy was NA only, but that’s a good point. Since everything else between the two regions is separate, I would have thought the TP would be too. But since it’s clear the TP is hosted on a separate system from the actual game servers, there’s no real reason it would need to be divided.

Pandemoniac.4739:

JK Arrow.7102:

TP warriors will most likely always earn more than farmers. As a guildy once told me, I don’t farm mobs, I farm farmers. I’m not sure anyone here is saying this can be changed completely but the compromise is making general PvE rewards feel like it is a close comparison.

Well I think you’re assuming that farming mobs and making money on the TP requires the same amount of work and skill, which I don’t believe is true. Farmers can (and many do) increase their profits be being smart about what items they farm and when and for how much they sell them. The reason there’s a gap in earnings is not because TP investing is inherently better, it’s that the folks involved in it that do make a lot of money put effort into researching the best way to get the most value, whether they’re purely working in buy/sell orders or whether they’re selling the items they found by farming.

JK Arrow.7102:

The TP creates a dependence on other players to farm needed items for you rather than allowing a player to get them themselves. Anet loves to use stacks of 250 of something for recipes rather than more reasonable amounts. It would be good from an individual player’s perspective if it were a more difficult decision to either farm something or buy the items rather than the current state of having to buy them.

So, you want folks to feel more rewarded for farming, but you want to reduce the market for the items they’re farming? I understand that lots of folks would rather find items than earn gold, but I think what you’re missing is that buying things on the TP is basically trading the stuff you find that you don’t want to someone that wants it, and getting what you want from someone else who found it and didn’t want it.

Currency is a good thing because it frees you from having to find and make everything yourself. You’re looking for armored scales, but oops, an exotic weapon drops. Are you just going to toss it in the bin, or are you going to sell it and buy some armored scales? That one weapon drop could represent 10 armored scales dropping from one mob, but only if you turn it into gold.

JK Arrow.7102:

What if somehow achievement points were used to purchase high end rewards?

I actually think this is in the works, but I don’t remember where I saw that so take it with a grain of salt.

the problem with your whole theory is that when your trading stuff you dont want for stuff you do, its fine. But when its nearly impossible to get what you do want, it essentially means the large majority has to go to market. By forcing everyone to market, you only increase the profitability of middlemen.
heres how this game works,

you work
you get about 1/5th minimum wage, and random items picked from amazon
you sell random items from amazon on amazon

now you can say how its good that you things can be bought be because you can turn the things you dont want into cash, however. The system forces you to get many many many items you dont want, and essentially requires you to sell them to get what you do.
The overall effect is the value of a lot of items is too low, and the value of the rare items is extremely high. Also, if your a person who makes money just off the massive transactions that occur, its your ideal market, every one must transact constantly, with no vested interest in the items they are selling.

Syeria.4812:

I guess I just assumed that Spidy was NA only, but that’s a good point. Since everything else between the two regions is separate, I would have thought the TP would be too. But since it’s clear the TP is hosted on a separate system from the actual game servers, there’s no real reason it would need to be divided.

Well it’s pretty unusual for games with regional servers to bridge across them, but I think it’s a good thing and probably evens out some of the time-of-day related price swings and the supply of rare items. I can’t imagine how upset folks would get if a precursor was 900G in one market and 400G in the other.

Hmm ok well I assumed that the TP was broken in NA and EU since NA and EU can’t run dungeons together so would have made sense that the TP would be separate too. But if they are indeed 1 huge conglomerate in the eye of the TP, then that’s even more people to factor in for MF, drops, etc etc.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Well I think you’re assuming that farming mobs and making money on the TP requires the same amount of work and skill, which I don’t believe is true. Farmers can (and many do) increase their profits be being smart about what items they farm and when and for how much they sell them. The reason there’s a gap in earnings is not because TP investing is inherently better, it’s that the folks involved in it that do make a lot of money put effort into researching the best way to get the most value, whether they’re purely working in buy/sell orders or whether they’re selling the items they found by farming.

Profit potential from farming is no where close to that of trading, to the point of not even being comparable. With the use of assistance tools (which have no official stances…see posts) the effort needed for trading is diminished substantially.

Pandemoniac.4739:

So, you want folks to feel more rewarded for farming, but you want to reduce the market for the items they’re farming? I understand that lots of folks would rather find items than earn gold, but I think what you’re missing is that buying things on the TP is basically trading the stuff you find that you don’t want to someone that wants it, and getting what you want from someone else who found it and didn’t want it.

Currency is a good thing because it frees you from having to find and make everything yourself. You’re looking for armored scales, but oops, an exotic weapon drops. Are you just going to toss it in the bin, or are you going to sell it and buy some armored scales? That one weapon drop could represent 10 armored scales dropping from one mob, but only if you turn it into gold.

What we have now is relying on the tp 1st. Imo it should be a supplemental tool, not a primary system. If a player wants to farm an item for a purpose, they should be able to reasonably do so. Atm between DR, poor drop rates, and high amounts required players cannot do so feasibly. There is something lost about not being able to do something for yourself within this system. I for one feel much more accomplishment from building something rather than from buying it. That is one thing that would help this game “feel” more rewarding, which is a major issue of the players.

The TP is only the primary source of items if a player chooses that path. I, personally, have been farming T5 mats, mithril and elder woods. I then craft Greatswords until my inventory is full, and make runs with the Forge. I rather enjoy the feeling of tossing stuff in, and hoping a Precursor pops out.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The TP is only the primary source of items if a player chooses that path. I, personally, have been farming T5 mats, mithril and elder woods. I then craft Greatswords until my inventory is full, and make runs with the Forge. I rather enjoy the feeling of tossing stuff in, and hoping a Precursor pops out.

I would argue that for t6 mats, lodestones, giant eyes etc… it is definitely primary.

Essence Snow.3194:

Profit potential from farming is no where close to that of trading, to the point of not even being comparable. With the use of assistance tools (which have no official stances…see posts) the effort needed for trading is diminished substantially.

I don’t understand. If the person providing the supply in the first place uses the same tools as the trader to figure out what to supply and what price to sell it at, their profit potential can be just as good because they don’t have the cost of buying up any supply and doubling up on the tax and they don’t really shoulder much risk that they’ll lose their investment when the market takes a turn. The thing about farming is that you can always go get more stuff. If a trader loses their bankroll on a bad trade, they start back at square one.

Yes, it means that you might end up with stacks of stuff in your bank or on your sale tab for a while until the prices swing back around, and that you can’t just grind in the same spot without thinking about what you’re doing, but a trader doesn’t flip the same items over and over either. Maybe the farmers would need to craft also so they can transform some raw materials into something more salable (like rares->ectos).

Regardless, I remain unconvinced that the gap in potential profits is overwhelming. I think we’ll probably not be able to agree though because there aren’t a lot of hard facts to point to… how much money you make depends not only on effort but on talent. A bad trader won’t out-earn a good farmer.

Essence Snow.3194:

What we have now is relying on the tp 1st. Imo it should be a supplemental tool, not a primary system.

Well I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on that. I can’t think of any argument that can change a personal bias – and I don’t mean that in a negative way. I simply mean that’s your view and there’s no point in trying to talk you out of how you feel about it.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Essence Snow.3194:

Profit potential from farming is no where close to that of trading, to the point of not even being comparable. With the use of assistance tools (which have no official stances…see posts) the effort needed for trading is diminished substantially.

I don’t understand. If the person providing the supply in the first place uses the same tools as the trader to figure out what to supply and what price to sell it at, their profit potential can be just as good because they don’t have the cost of buying up any supply and doubling up on the tax and they don’t really shoulder much risk that they’ll lose their investment when the market takes a turn. The thing about farming is that you can always go get more stuff. If a trader loses their bankroll on a bad trade, they start back at square one.

Yes, it means that you might end up with stacks of stuff in your bank or on your sale tab for a while until the prices swing back around, and that you can’t just grind in the same spot without thinking about what you’re doing, but a trader doesn’t flip the same items over and over either. Maybe the farmers would need to craft also so they can transform some raw materials into something more salable (like rares->ectos).

Regardless, I remain unconvinced that the gap in potential profits is overwhelming. I think we’ll probably not be able to agree though because there aren’t a lot of hard facts to point to… how much money you make depends not only on effort but on talent. A bad trader won’t out-earn a good farmer.

Essence Snow.3194:

What we have now is relying on the tp 1st. Imo it should be a supplemental tool, not a primary system.

Well I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on that. I can’t think of any argument that can change a personal bias – and I don’t mean that in a negative way. I simply mean that’s your view and there’s no point in trying to talk you out of how you feel about it.

the person who is selling a good, can only get as many goods as they can get at the time. The person buying and selling is only limited by their starting capital. The difference is person who can hunt 20 items in day can make 3 copper more per item if they play the market. The person who plays the market can 3 copper more per item if they play the market, but they have 1000 items sold per day.

not to mention that because people get random items they dont need, the value of an item is often determined by a large amount of people who have no need for the item. Which is one of the reasons so many items barely sell above npc value.

phys.7689:

the person who is selling a good, can only get as many goods as they can get at the time. The person buying and selling is only limited by their starting capital. The difference is person who can hunt 20 items in day can make 3 copper more per item if they play the market. The person who plays the market can 3 copper more per item if they play the market, but they have 1000 items sold per day.

I see your point, however, you’re assuming that every trade they make is profitable. When you go out and farm, you always get something for what you find even if you just vendor it. The farmers are also getting karma, skill points, tokens, and the chance of getting something rare dropped. I’ve made a significant sum on dyes for example, and they weren’t even that rare. The best way to earn is probably a mix of trading and farming, but I have never had any problem gearing my characters and I’ve never bought anything on the TP for the sole purpose of reselling it.

But we aren’t talking about folks that want typical stuff. We’re talking about folks that want legendaries. To earn that kind of cash quickly you have to gamble and that’s all there is to it. Trading is gambling. If it was as simple as dumping in some money and getting back 30% more, everyone would be doing it.

It reminds me of a craps game I was in once. Some lady was dropping thousand dollar bets all over the field and when she won, she raked in a LOT of money, but at the end of the night I was about $200 ahead with my $20 bets and she was about $25,000 in the hole. She had a great time, so I’m not judging, but if you only watched one roll of the dice your perception of which of us was making more money would have been very skewed.

John Smith.4610:

Let’s calm down a bit, this isn’t getting us far. Instead let me ask this.
Here are the assumptions that I’m operating under for this question:
1. You feel that PvE and TP have difference levels of gold earning
2. You feel that PvE and TP should have the same level of gold earning

What would be your plan for implementing a reward system that would achieve what you desire, given the constraint that you may not get rid of the trading post?

Have you considered making more recipes for under utilized materials? Crystal Lodestones go for nothing compared to other Lodestones, mostly because the recipes they are used for are not in hig demand. The same argument holds true for Ancient Bones and Powerful Venom Sacs, but rather due to condition damage not being a desired stat for a majority of builds.

An increased desire to get that sick new item that needs 250 Crystal Lodestones would allow PvE farmers that are farming Lodestone A to supplement their stockpile by selling Lodestone B, C, and D and using the gold to buy more A.

The problem is that people working the trade post just look for what is most profitable and shift to different areas of the market as the dynamics of the market shift. PvE Farmers don’t have that luxury. They get drops and if the drops aren’t good then they don’t make much that day. Furthermore, if you are farming Powerful Bloods you can’t even supplement your supply because the other mats sell for so little in comparison.

Basically, instead of increasing the supply of the expensive stuff, increase competition by increasing the demand of alternatives. The PvE end will benefit by having more valuable drops other than just Powerful Blood and Charged Lodestones.

John Smith.4610:

Let’s calm down a bit, this isn’t getting us far. Instead let me ask this.
Here are the assumptions that I’m operating under for this question:
1. You feel that PvE and TP have difference levels of gold earning
2. You feel that PvE and TP should have the same level of gold earning

What would be your plan for implementing a reward system that would achieve what you desire, given the constraint that you may not get rid of the trading post?

Increase the drop by 33%

John Smith.4610:

Let’s calm down a bit, this isn’t getting us far. Instead let me ask this.
Here are the assumptions that I’m operating under for this question:
1. You feel that PvE and TP have difference levels of gold earning
2. You feel that PvE and TP should have the same level of gold earning

What would be your plan for implementing a reward system that would achieve what you desire, given the constraint that you may not get rid of the trading post?

Okay I’ll follow suit……….

The assumption #1 is odd b/c you have the numbers and know the potential is not balanced. Therefore it must be rhetoric and you don’t really want an answer to it.

The assumption #2…well I believe that some players do feel this way. I don’t feel they should be dead even, but a whole lot closer then they are. This “feeling” would include potential as it is the major factor that unbalances the two.

We have a disparity that is rapidly evolving in our economy. We have an ever increasing wealth gap that serves to be of the detriment of our mass player base. Those with increase prices while those w/o are left soured. If our success was not so closely tied to active players, this would not be an issue. Unfortunately players are the name of the game in this genre. When a mmo loses it’s masses it’s health fails. Regardless of the health of it’s economy independently, if the masses are unhappy with it, it is not beneficial to the game.

As it is late…very late….I won’t dive into plans to balance what is very complicated, but there are a few things that are rather obvious. Tune the economy to make the mass player base happy. Decrease the profit potential allowed by the tp via caps or some other measure. Fix unbalanced farms cough*cof p1*cough. Increase drops of usable mats. Decrease drops of merch fodder. Rely less on rng and remove it from hindering long term goals.

Anyways……the main just of it is….regardless if a game like ours has a “healthy” economy, if the mass population of the game is discouraged with it, it is not “healthy” for the game.

Ofc this is just the delusional ratings of a sleep deprived player, so take with a grain of salt.

@Essence Snow: So what you’re proposing is basically increasing the rate of drops for rare loot to a point where every player who wants, say, a Legendary is capable of farming it for themselves with some effort. Under your proposal, a player should never feel they have to rely on luck or the TP to achieve their goals. Is that correct?

Personally, this is something I would not be against, as I play the game to fulfill my own personal goals and don’t much care what other players do or look like, but there arise two potential problems from this:

1. If every player is able to achieve the best gear (cosmetic or otherwise) in the game eventually, will the majority of players be happy with that? There are already players who argue that seeing everybody with a Legendary devalues the status of the item, and undoubtedly there will be some players who don’t think that now, but may feel differently once they have their Legendary.

2. What will this mean for GW2’s longevity? Since the end-game mostly revolves around aesthetics, if a player can achieve everything they want within, say, 6 months, will that player continue to stick around and play GW2? Or will they leave in search of another game? (For obvious reasons, ANet wants players to stick around, so making goals too easy to achieve is detrimental to them.)

There is one specific thing i’d like to see changed with the TP, that is selling to a buy order. I’d like to see all the fees come directly out of the sale instead of putting up the %5 first. It seems like a minor thing, but i think it would help a small amount for players that simply can’t list a bigger ticket item to a buy order since they just don’t have the G.

Another thing i would like to see is a vendor buy price adjustment. Not a lot mind you, but maybe up the top priced vendor item by 1s to vendor your “trash”. Basically increasing the lowest sell value 1c (say at junk level). It would muddy up the market a bit for a little while on items that are really close to vendor value on the TP, but i think keeping the cost to play the same, but slightly moving up the earning potential would help those that struggle near the bottom.

There is an interesting assumption about being able to obtain a legendary quicker and that is that people will quite playing once they achieve this lofty goal. I personally think that would only be the case for a handful of players that feel as though acquiring a legendary is basically beating the game. Most players i know that earn that reward, actually want to play just to show it off. This not to mention Anet’s goal to continue to add new content and challenges for players, I would think there will continue to be a reason for people to keep playing. I personally play the game since i enjoy it, but that’s just me.

munkiman.3068:

There is one specific thing i’d like to see changed with the TP, that is selling to a buy order.

Is what you said, but what I read was…

yet another player:

There is one specific thing i’d like to see changed, that is for a gold sink that actually works and affects me to be closed.

You would? Really? How shocking. Sorry, did I say shocking? I meant provincial. What an incredibly bad idea for the management of this game. Very nearly ANY change that puts more coin into your hands (rather than more tradable goods) is just throwing another log on the inflation bonfire. You wouldn’t end up any richer for it, you’d just ratchet up the TP prices that much further.

Nike.2631:

munkiman.3068:

There is one specific thing i’d like to see changed with the TP, that is selling to a buy order.

Is what you said, but what I read was…

yet another player:

There is one specific thing i’d like to see changed, that is for a gold sink that actually works and affects me to be closed.

I think you’ve misread his post. Let’s look at the full quote

munkiman.3068:

There is one specific thing i’d like to see changed with the TP, that is selling to a buy order. I’d like to see all the fees come directly out of the sale instead of putting up the %5 first. It seems like a minor thing, but i think it would help a small amount for players that simply can’t list a bigger ticket item to a buy order since they just don’t have the G.

It doesn’t change the amount of the gold sink/listing fee at all. It just means you don’t have to have a big pile of gold to sell expensive items, it’s just taken out of the sale. I’d like to see that change also so that if I do get a lucky drop I don’t have to scrape up 30G to sell it.

The listing fee makes perfect sense when the seller is setting the price – it puts downward pressure on the sale prices because if you list it too high and it doesn’t sell, you lose the listing fee when you go to re-list.

I can’t think of any reason why the fee when you’re filling a buy order shouldn’t be taken out of the proceeds of the sale. It should be charged, but I don’t understand what purpose charging the fee up front serves other than to preclude poor folks from selling expensive items.

Yes, if i have 3g and run across an item that has a buy order of 100g, i can’t sell that item because i have to put up 5g just to sell it. So the solution for me, which doesn’t affect anything about the way the system works now, is take the money off the sale, since the buy order money is a guaranteed sale.

munkiman.3068:

Yes, if i have 3g and run across an item that has a buy order of 100g, i can’t sell that item because i have to put up 5g just to sell it. So the solution for me, which doesn’t affect anything about the way the system works now, is take the money off the sale, since the buy order money is a guaranteed sale.

I see two problems. Undercutting, and using TP as storage.

Gisei.5749:

munkiman.3068:

Yes, if i have 3g and run across an item that has a buy order of 100g, i can’t sell that item because i have to put up 5g just to sell it. So the solution for me, which doesn’t affect anything about the way the system works now, is take the money off the sale, since the buy order money is a guaranteed sale.

I see two problems. Undercutting, and using TP as storage.

Please understand what i’m proposing. Selling outright to the highest buyer has nothing to do with being undercut or provides any more ability to use the TP as storage. I got an item that i don’t have enough money to list, i click sell to highest buyer, the item goes to the buyer, the money goes to me, the 15% comes off the sale and goes to the TP. Why people even propose to using the TP as storage is beyond me, why pay the listing fee to store an item? A 100g item you have to post for a significantly higher sell price in order to ensure you don’t sell it off, but that’s not even an issue in this scenario.

Nike.2631:

Very nearly ANY change that puts more coin into your hands (rather than more tradable goods) is just throwing another log on the inflation bonfire. You wouldn’t end up any richer for it, you’d just ratchet up the TP prices that much further.

One could actually design the game around this problem, however. If you were to make it so that Rare items were fairly easy to obtain (or that no RNG existed and all desired end-game goods/skins could be obtained by a player accumulating tokens), inflation shouldn’t impact the player experience because every player would be capable of getting anything in the game with some playtime. Since cost of goods from vendors are fixed, if supply was increased to a point where it always meets (if not exceeds) demand, inflationary pressure becomes meaningless.

Of course, that could lead to a totally different problem where players complain things are too easy and that there’s no sense of prestige associated with obtaining Rare items. This isn’t something that bothers me personally, as I outfit my characters with what appeals to me aesthetically (and not to show off to other players), but I imagine such a move would alienate a lot of other players.