Guild Wars 2

Smooth Penguin.5294:

No one is “making” you buy the Gems. The individual player who wants the bonus makes the decision on their own accord.

Did I not clearly say that in my post? Of course they are not forcing you to do anything. They are making it so the only way to get something in game is to spend real life money and this is the first time (that I can think of) that they are doing so. That is what the OP was trying to say.

cranked.3812:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

No one is “making” you buy the Gems. The individual player who wants the bonus makes the decision on their own accord.

Did I not clearly say that in my post? Of course they are not forcing you to do anything. They are making it so the only way to get something in game is to spend real life money and this is the first time (that I can think of) that they are doing so. That is what the OP was trying to say.

Here’s what you said:

cranked.3812:

What I was agreeing with is that this is the first time anet is actually making you spend actual money to get something in game.

If a player wants the item, they will make that decision, not Anet. Players who complain can’t point fingers at or blame Anet for anything.

There are two things that complainers are mixing, “wanting” and “needing”. Ask yourself, do you “want” the exclusive mini, or do you “need” the exclusive mini. If it’s “want”, then the player will make the decision based on that. If it’s “need”, then the player needs to explain why they need it, and how it’s Anet’s responsibility to fulfill that need.

If you want the mini, you are forced to spend money on gems. What I said is not wrong.

What I was agreeing with is that this is the first time anet is actually making you spend actual money to get something in game.

I am not saying you are being forced to buy the mini, but if you want it, you must spend money.

I’m not even QQing. I don’t care about the mini and won’t intentionally spend money on gems to get it.

The argument at hand is the fact that some players are saying they are “forced” to do something. No one is forced to do anything. If you want the mini, the option is there to get it. So then if that same player decides not to buy 4k Gems to get the bonus, that’s their choice.

The mistake you keep making is that you think players who “need” to have it, have no choice but to pay the $50 for Gems. That’s is incorrect. There is a choice. Anet isn’t to blame here. It’s the individual players who have a compulsion. They’re compelled to buy it for whatever their reason are. It’s these players who I feel should get some professional help outside of the game. Be it OCDs or an addiction to collecting everything, if they’re forcing themselves to do something they don’t want to (i.e. spending money), you can never blame the company that’s providing the object of their desires.

Is it the Vegas Casino’s fault that someone is addicted to gambling? It’s it Mattel’s fault if a customer spends all their money collecting Barbie dolls? And is it truly Anet’s fault for offering an optional virtual item that doesn’t affect the game in any way?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The argument at hand is the fact that some players are saying they are “forced” to do something. No one is forced to do anything. If you want the mini, the option is there to get it. So then if that same player decides not to buy 4k Gems to get the bonus, that’s their choice.

That is not my argument. Anyone who says they are forced to buy it is wrong. I am saying that if you want it, the only way to get it is to spend $50 on gems (unless of course you want to spend $700 on ebay). Therefore, if you want it, you are forced to shell out $50 as opposed to being able to convert gems —> gold like everything else in the store.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The mistake you keep making is that you think players who “need” to have it, have no choice but to pay the $50 for Gems. That’s is incorrect. There is a choice. Anet isn’t to blame here. It’s the individual players who have a compulsion. They’re compelled to buy it for whatever their reason are. It’s these players who I feel should get some professional help outside of the game. Be it OCDs or an addiction to collecting everything, if they’re forcing themselves to do something they don’t want to (i.e. spending money), you can never blame the company that’s providing the object of their desires.

What other way is there to get one besides paying $50 for gems?

I totally agree with everything else you said about OCD. That does not change the fact that the only way to get it is to pay $50.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Is it the Vegas Casino’s fault that someone is addicted to gambling? It’s it Mattel’s fault if a customer spends all their money collecting Barbie dolls? And is it truly Anet’s fault for offering an optional virtual item that doesn’t affect the game in any way?

Of course it’s not anet’s fault and I am not blaming them in any way for anything. I even stated several posts back that I have absolutely no issue with this whole thing. Blaming things on companies or other individuals is a very large issue in our society, but that is another topic for another day.

Most people who wanted the mini mr sparkles are glad to get it this way. The alternative is not getting it or a $100 ebay purchase. They also have to be fair to those who got it the first time round. So please leave mr sparkles out of this.

Mini collectors should be aware by now mini collecting is expensive. The amount of gold i spend on minis is more than enough to buy a lengendary.

FateOmega.9601:

Most people who wanted the mini mr sparkles are glad to get it this way. The alternative is not getting it or a $100 ebay purchase. They also have to be fair to those who got it the first time round. So please leave mr sparkles out of this.

Mini collectors should be aware by now mini collecting is expensive. The amount of gold i spend on minis is more than enough to buy a lengendary.

The problem is kinda the fact that people don’t understand what I’m writing…

ITS NOT MR. SPARKLE RIGHTNESS TO GET DEBATE.
ITS ABOUT THE WAY GEM STORE WORKS.

Up till now it was spend money and get an item. Many people spend cash on gems in advance and ANet now says pay 50$ (or whatever) and get 4k gem free.
This is the way I see it for those who actually WANT the item.

Please not another debate about what WANT and NEED and MUST TO HAVE means.
It’s simple as that – for people who collect minis it’s MUST TO HAVE. I won’t go deeper with the topic.

Just imagine the same engine goes in another deal. People (like me) wrote many times we want to get GW1 armors. For if they are from the pool I liked those will by my “must to have”.

“But wait buy 4k gems and you will get it for free…” When I have 4k gem stored for the future I don’t need another 4k, but will I have a chance to buy it for the gems?
NO!?!
Because I will get an item for buying 4k gems and gems will be the free part – THAT IS NEW MARKET MODEL THEY INTRODUCED.

That was about Mr. Sparkles. and as for the new armors.
I really feel disappointed we get reskins (even if they look awesome) its basically milking cash (low effort and high cost) way of doing business. THIS is why I’M DISAPPOINTED.

I understand your point and it’s valid. This is the first time they’ve offered a free item with cash gem purchase that wasn’t available for gems in the gem store already. Of course to be really despicable it would have to be offered in the gem store after Jan 1st at a much more reasonable price. I want the pitchfork and torch concession if that happens.

To obtain the mini, the only avenue open to collectors is to spend $50 in the month of December on gems. Yes you get 4000 gems as well which is worth 236 gold as I’m writing this (the exchange rate has taken a sharp turn downward, lots of gem sales for gold? wonder where all those gems are coming from?).

And that’s the problem Smooth and the burning question, is this a new model to sell ultra exclusive items? Having them as a “bonus” for buying large amounts of gems with cash? That’s the concern here. Is it signaling a change in the way to encourage cash sales or is it just a one time thing?

I’m glad that Cranked and I aren’t too far apart in our arguments. And I do hear what Behellagh is saying. However, I’m speaking from a business perspective. Having studied and getting a degree in Marketing, I’m keenly aware of the pitfalls of a poor business decision.

There are not many ways for a company to both satisfy 100% of their customer base, and be profitable at the same time. In order to draw people in, a business will offer some type of promotion. And there’ll always be the customer who gets upset over promotional offers. I’ll give you my own personal example. I bought a new car for my wife a few years back. Later, that same car went on sale for $1,500 cheaper, plus some extra accessories. It was only a couple of months after the fact, but still, I was mad. Had I waited, I would have saved a lot of money. But hindsight is always 20/20. Sure I could have saved money if I wait, but I can’t see the future. And as with all things, there’s bound to be sales or discounts on stuff you buy.

So with Anet, if they hear negative feedback for offering an exclusive mini at a Gaming Convention, that only a very tiny percentage of the population can get, they need to rethink their strategies. So by now offering it to everyone, on the condition that you buy Gems, this opens the door for not only increased sales, but also a way to satisfy the upset customers who thought they could never get the mini in the first place.

Side note – Selling and buying the mini’s code on Ebay is a breach of the User Agreement. So people who actually paid big money for it shouldn’t get mad, since they’re lucky to still have their accounts.

Behellagh.1468:

I understand your point and it’s valid. This is the first time they’ve offered a free item with cash gem purchase that wasn’t available for gems in the gem store already. Of course to be really despicable it would have to be offered in the gem store after Jan 1st at a much more reasonable price. I want the pitchfork and torch concession if that happens.

To obtain the mini, the only avenue open to collectors is to spend $50 in the month of December on gems. Yes you get 4000 gems as well which is worth 236 gold as I’m writing this (the exchange rate has taken a sharp turn downward, lots of gem sales for gold? wonder where all those gems are coming from?).

And that’s the problem Smooth and the burning question, is this a new model to sell ultra exclusive items? Having them as a “bonus” for buying large amounts of gems with cash? That’s the concern here. Is it signaling a change in the way to encourage cash sales or is it just a one time thing?

People get too caught up on principle, and what they “could” do in the future.

Selling a mini (the fluffiest of fluff) for real money of all things? Perfectly reasonable. Getting angry that this could signal them selling more significant non-fluff things for real money? Slippery slope. Get angry when and if it really happens.

Ursan.7846:

People get too caught up on principle, and what they “could” do in the future.

Selling a mini (the fluffiest of fluff) for real money of all things? Perfectly reasonable. Getting angry that this could signal them selling more significant non-fluff things for real money? Slippery slope. Get angry when and if it really happens.

As far as I know it works like this:
If no one minds it means that they can do it and I hope and wan’t to do what I can to prevent selling for RL money with cover of buying gems.

I understand it’s a business, but if they want their business to roll better, they should start improving gem items. There is a massive thread about what people want in gem store (things like race change and GW1 armors and more of those). People will buy things that they wrote they want. It’s just as simple as that.
They should also do better job for bots that still create massive income in this game for other sites to sell to users that don’t understand supporting the game concept.
Yes, those bots or on the run for months and I reported several and they are still online. Others reported also and almost none of them got banned. It’s sad but you can rad some post on that (some that I read got deleted).

So overall yes, I agree I might go a bit too far, but I feel they are trying to go the way most games do:
- persuading (forcing) people to buy gems with a bad way
- going for cheap items (reskins instead of making new ones)

Let’s face it GW2 gem store is kinda lowering the level and if they do that I might stop paying for things in there. Those last deals make me feel kind betrayed, yet I want to support the game. So I don’t like the way I feel.
If more people feels like me then it will impact finances and that will impact everyone in game as far as I know.

As for me. If they need cash boost, make expansion and sell it like another game. I know it might not be their style, but we all play for free so buying massive update once a year or two is not that bad. That can help finances a lot.

Again we hear the arguments like being “betrayed” or “forced to buy Gems”. I still don’t understand how one person can be mad that Anet is offering bonuses for buying Gems. The OP has yet to justify how a company is wrong for offering free items as an incentive to players for making a purchase.

This argument, no matter how you look at it, has no merit. The option to buy Gems will always be there. The Gem Store will always be updated. The only difference in December is that you get free extra goodies with a monetary transaction. Each and every way you look at it, the players benefit greatly. There is no single negative aspect to this deal. If you can’t afford it, or don’t want to buy, then don’t.

Saying you’re Entitled to free stuff now, because you bought something in the past, is a weak argument. It’s like me saying that when I bought a laptop from a company 5 years ago, so I should get another laptop for free since I supported them in the past.

I would posit that no one is being forced to spend money to get the mini, rather people who spend money are being rewarded with a free mini.

Perspective!

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Again we hear the arguments like being “betrayed” or “forced to buy Gems”. I still don’t understand how one person can be mad that Anet is offering bonuses for buying Gems. The OP has yet to justify how a company is wrong for offering free items as an incentive to players for making a purchase.

This argument, no matter how you look at it, has no merit. The option to buy Gems will always be there. The Gem Store will always be updated. The only difference in December is that you get free extra goodies with a monetary transaction. Each and every way you look at it, the players benefit greatly. There is no single negative aspect to this deal. If you can’t afford it, or don’t want to buy, then don’t.

Saying you’re Entitled to free stuff now, because you bought something in the past, is a weak argument. It’s like me saying that when I bought a laptop from a company 5 years ago, so I should get another laptop for free since I supported them in the past.

Look i understand Anet needs to make money, but denying a portion of it’s player base from ever being able to receive an item, that another player can easily buy with $50 is not good for it’s business model. It really is one step closer to those pay to win korean mmorg’s where you can only get certain items by paying cash. I refuse to play these types of games, and the reason i play GW2 is because i can exchange gold for gems to get items from the shop. If Anet continues making items unobtainable to players who don’t buy gems, then i’ll have to conclude that this game isn’t for me.

I don’t care if this minipet cost 4000 gems in the cash shop, if there isn’t a legitimate way to achieve this item through the actaully game Anet has failed a large part of thier player who do not buy gems. We paid for this game too, and denying us content is not a good step for the game to take.

Curse Drew.8679:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Again we hear the arguments like being “betrayed” or “forced to buy Gems”. I still don’t understand how one person can be mad that Anet is offering bonuses for buying Gems. The OP has yet to justify how a company is wrong for offering free items as an incentive to players for making a purchase.

This argument, no matter how you look at it, has no merit. The option to buy Gems will always be there. The Gem Store will always be updated. The only difference in December is that you get free extra goodies with a monetary transaction. Each and every way you look at it, the players benefit greatly. There is no single negative aspect to this deal. If you can’t afford it, or don’t want to buy, then don’t.

Saying you’re Entitled to free stuff now, because you bought something in the past, is a weak argument. It’s like me saying that when I bought a laptop from a company 5 years ago, so I should get another laptop for free since I supported them in the past.

Look i understand Anet needs to make money, but denying a portion of it’s player base from ever being able to receive an item, that another player can easily buy with $50 is not good for it’s business model. It really is one step closer to those pay to win korean mmorg’s where you can only get certain items by paying cash. I refuse to play these types of games, and the reason i play GW2 is because i can exchange gold for gems to get items from the shop. If Anet continues making items unobtainable to players who don’t buy gems, then i’ll have to conclude that this game isn’t for me.

I don’t care if this minipet cost 4000 gems in the cash shop, if there isn’t a legitimate way to achieve this item through the actaully game Anet has failed a large part of thier player who do not buy gems. We paid for this game too, and denying us content is not a good step for the game to take.

Again, this argument is without merit. A business has every right to dictate who can get free promotional items. If they decide to reward loyal paying customers for their purchases, non-paying customers cannot ask for the same. Why do you think frequent shoppers of a store would be offered unique discounts in the real world? It’s because they spend money to keep the business going, and special offers rewards them for their transactions.

If you truly want an item, you must abide by the requirements. That said, because this is an optional luxury item that has no effect on the game, players aren’t forced to buy into the deal. If you’re a player that doesn’t buy Gems, you can still play the game the same as if you didn’t have the bonus item. A promotional offer doesn’t change your game play at all.

Everyone who supported this game since day 1 deserves a FREE BIG GIFT from Anet for their patience and to still be here.

I don’t deserve it anyway.
Becouse i stopped supporting this game as i understood they were just milking people as the OP said, and that happened months ago.
I just come back here to stay with friends, but actually my money (around 230 Euro since i left) are going into another game.

Maybe i’ll be back investing in gw2 when Anet understood some things must to be changed. If not i’ll just be happy to give my money to a more respectful company.

Nothing personal, just facts.
Thank you for reading.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If they decide to reward loyal paying customers for their purchases, non-paying customers cannot ask for the same.

I already paid for this game. I’ve said that already.

Aedil.1296:

Everyone who supported this game since day 1 deserves a FREE BIG GIFT from Anet for their patience and to still be here.

How are you more “Entitled” to a big free gift if you don’t buy Gems, over someone like me who does spend real money buying Gems?

Even if you don’t personally agree with this, paying customers will always be far superior to non-paying customers (in terms of profit and cash flow). It’s the circle of life. A business lives only when there’s a stream of revenue. When a business stops making money, they close.

Curse Drew.8679:

I already paid for this game. I’ve said that already.

You paid once. I paid multiple times, and get free extras as thanks. No problem there.

Curse Drew.8679:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Again we hear the arguments like being “betrayed” or “forced to buy Gems”. I still don’t understand how one person can be mad that Anet is offering bonuses for buying Gems. The OP has yet to justify how a company is wrong for offering free items as an incentive to players for making a purchase.

This argument, no matter how you look at it, has no merit. The option to buy Gems will always be there. The Gem Store will always be updated. The only difference in December is that you get free extra goodies with a monetary transaction. Each and every way you look at it, the players benefit greatly. There is no single negative aspect to this deal. If you can’t afford it, or don’t want to buy, then don’t.

Saying you’re Entitled to free stuff now, because you bought something in the past, is a weak argument. It’s like me saying that when I bought a laptop from a company 5 years ago, so I should get another laptop for free since I supported them in the past.

Look i understand Anet needs to make money, but denying a portion of it’s player base from ever being able to receive an item, that another player can easily buy with $50 is not good for it’s business model. It really is one step closer to those pay to win korean mmorg’s where you can only get certain items by paying cash. I refuse to play these types of games, and the reason i play GW2 is because i can exchange gold for gems to get items from the shop. If Anet continues making items unobtainable to players who don’t buy gems, then i’ll have to conclude that this game isn’t for me.

I don’t care if this minipet cost 4000 gems in the cash shop, if there isn’t a legitimate way to achieve this item through the actaully game Anet has failed a large part of thier player who do not buy gems. We paid for this game too, and denying us content is not a good step for the game to take.

First it doesn’t cost 4000 gems, it a bonus for buying with cash 4000 gems. You still have 4000 gems after getting one. I know that’s not how some will see it but I can’t believe that there are many hard core mini collectors, which Mr Sparkles is appealing to, have never spent real money on gems to buy minis.

Second how is buying with cash not legitimate. Oh you mean legitimate as in free.

Third a mini isn’t content. It doesn’t unlock an ability, class, area or quest chain. It’s a status symbol. It’s a beanie baby. I know collecting is a legitimate secondary activity like exploring or farming or playing the TP but it is a way to maintain the exclusivity of the item, it was only distributed at game cons, yet allow players who aren’t going to fly across the country or world to get it.

I’m sorry but I’ve experience this, exclusive content not available to all, in other MMOs and it’s not the end of the world or causes mass departures. At least here they have set up a means to get it. Sure it’ll pad their 4th quarter sales, good for them, helps keep the home office from micromanaging. But you still have all those Gems after you get it. Save them for a rainy day, cash them in for gold (gold for gem buyers thank you), buy enough keys so you have a chance for a ticket, don’t care but when the new year starts you will have your mini, your exclusive backpack and your pile of gems.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Curse Drew.8679:

I already paid for this game. I’ve said that already.

You paid once. I paid multiple times, and get free extras as thanks. No problem there.

Nope not if you love pay to win/skin games from korea, where content is only availible if you pay more.

This does go against GW2 Business model, if the item is not offered in the cash shop. I don’t even want the mini, it’s the principle, and the future of gw2 that it might lead to.

Curse Drew.8679:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Curse Drew.8679:

I already paid for this game. I’ve said that already.

You paid once. I paid multiple times, and get free extras as thanks. No problem there.

Nope not if you love pay to win/skin games from korea, where content is only availible if you pay more.

This does go against GW2 Business model, if the item is not offered in the cash shop. I don’t even want the mini, it’s the principle, and the future of gw2 that it might lead to.

Your argument might have merit, if GW2 was a Pay 2 Win model. However, since it’s not, the only thing that you’re complaining about is that paying customers get a free gift, and non-paying ones don’t.

Behellagh.1468:

First it doesn’t cost 4000 gems, it a bonus for buying with cash 4000 gems. You still have 4000 gems after getting one. I know that’s not how some will see it but I can’t believe that there are many hard core mini collectors, which Mr Sparkles is appealing to, have never spent real money on gems to buy minis.

Second how is buying with cash not legitimate. Oh you mean legitimate as in free.

Third a mini isn’t content. It doesn’t unlock an ability, class, area or quest chain. It’s a status symbol. It’s a beanie baby. I know collecting is a legitimate secondary activity like exploring or farming or playing the TP but it is a way to maintain the exclusivity of the item, it was only distributed at game cons, yet allow players who aren’t going to fly across the country or world to get it.

I’m sorry but I’ve experience this, exclusive content not available to all, in other MMOs and it’s not the end of the world or causes mass departures. At least here they have set up a means to get it. Sure it’ll pad their 4th quarter sales, good for them, helps keep the home office from micromanaging. But you still have all those Gems after you get it. Save them for a rainy day, cash them in for gold (gold for gem buyers thank you), buy enough keys so you have a chance for a ticket, don’t care but when the new year starts you will have your mini, your exclusive backpack and your pile of gems.

I think you misunderstood everything i wrote.

I know it’s a bonus for buying 4000 gems. I was saying it should be offered in the gemshop for 4000 gems (still keeping it super rare and expensive), so it’s not exclusively for players who have purchased gems, other players who would want it badly enough to pay 350 gold, or whatever the exchange rate is, are not excluded.

By legitimate i don’t mean free, lol.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Your argument might have merit, if GW2 was a Pay 2 Win model. However, since it’s not, the only thing that you’re complaining about is that paying customers get a free gift, and non-paying ones don’t.

No! I don’t care that you’re getting it for free, and i don’t want one for free either. Has anyone read anything i wrote?

I’m ONLY saying i don’t like the items being exclusively for those who have bought gems.

Curse Drew.8679:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Your argument might have merit, if GW2 was a Pay 2 Win model. However, since it’s not, the only thing that you’re complaining about is that paying customers get a free gift, and non-paying ones don’t.

No! I don’t care that you’re getting it for free, and i don’t want one for free either. Has anyone read anything i wrote?

I’m ONLY saying i don’t like the items being exclusively for those who have bought gems.

It’s your opinion that you don’t like that paying customers get a free exclusive bonus, and non-paying customers don’t. That’s fine. And in response, I explained why it makes perfect business sense to treat paying customers well by offering these bonus items.

To make it clear, let me offer a situation for all you complainers. Say you own a business. Now you have two types of players that support your business. “Customer A” spends $60 one time over the course of a year. “Customer B” spends $600 over the same time frame. Question: Which customer would you rather cater to so they continue to do business with you?

Curse Drew.8679:

I think you misunderstood everything i wrote.

I know it’s a bonus for buying 4000 gems. I was saying it should be offered in the gemshop for 4000 gems (still keeping it super rare and expensive), so it’s not exclusively for players who have purchased gems, other players who would want it badly enough to pay 350 gold, or whatever the exchange rate is, are not excluded.

By legitimate i don’t mean free, lol.

Exchanging in-game currency for gems to buy it is “free”. Free as in not costing real world currency to acquire it. This way it doesn’t encourage abnormal “grind or gold” play or make it an exclusive to the 1%ers of Tyria. ANet gets to pad their 4th quarter numbers, die hard collectors fill that hole in their collection the only people who don’t win are the ones who insist the game they enjoy playing is paid by others.

Want free to play games? MapleStory and it’s ilk is right over there. It’ll teach you the real meaning of grind, of pay to win, of nickel and diming you for costume and inventory space. Or you can play one of the former subscription now hybrid F2P MMOs and find loads of content locked behind paywalls. You think our cash shop is expensive, wait till you see the prices in those games.

I know, maybe players who haven’t bought any gems with cash or redeem any gem cards over the last year get treated to intrusive video ads during each of the load screens. Really adds to the death penalty if you use a waypoint to rez.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Curse Drew.8679:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Your argument might have merit, if GW2 was a Pay 2 Win model. However, since it’s not, the only thing that you’re complaining about is that paying customers get a free gift, and non-paying ones don’t.

No! I don’t care that you’re getting it for free, and i don’t want one for free either. Has anyone read anything i wrote?

I’m ONLY saying i don’t like the items being exclusively for those who have bought gems.

It’s your opinion that you don’t like that paying customers get a free exclusive bonus, and non-paying customers don’t. That’s fine. And in response, I explained why it makes perfect business sense to treat paying customers well by offering these bonus items.

To make it clear, let me offer a situation for all you complainers. Say you own a business. Now you have two types of players that support your business. “Customer A” spends $60 one time over the course of a year. “Customer B” spends $600 over the same time frame. Question: Which customer would you rather cater to so they continue to do business with you?

Depends on how many $60 customers versus $600 you have. If catering to the $600 drives off enough of the $60 ones then you’re doing something wrong.

Behellagh.1468:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Curse Drew.8679:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Your argument might have merit, if GW2 was a Pay 2 Win model. However, since it’s not, the only thing that you’re complaining about is that paying customers get a free gift, and non-paying ones don’t.

No! I don’t care that you’re getting it for free, and i don’t want one for free either. Has anyone read anything i wrote?

I’m ONLY saying i don’t like the items being exclusively for those who have bought gems.

It’s your opinion that you don’t like that paying customers get a free exclusive bonus, and non-paying customers don’t. That’s fine. And in response, I explained why it makes perfect business sense to treat paying customers well by offering these bonus items.

To make it clear, let me offer a situation for all you complainers. Say you own a business. Now you have two types of players that support your business. “Customer A” spends $60 one time over the course of a year. “Customer B” spends $600 over the same time frame. Question: Which customer would you rather cater to so they continue to do business with you?

Depends on how many $60 customers versus $600 you have. If catering to the $600 drives off enough of the $60 ones then you’re doing something wrong.

That’s a fair point. But if both types of customers already paid the $60 once, but then Customer B spends much more continuously, it would make sense that you’d want that customer to continue to spending money by offering incentives.

I don’t need 4k Gems, but I have to consider the fact that if I end up buying more Gems later, I’d have missed out on the bonus offer. The promotional free item does pad their quarterly reports, but at the same time, rewards a purchase that I probably would have done anyway, even without the freebies.

The cash shop is the incentives to spend real cash. Offering items only availible to those that buy gems with money is a slippery slope, and leads to games like this:

Behellagh.1468:

Want free to play games? MapleStory and it’s ilk is right over there. It’ll teach you the real meaning of grind, of pay to win, of nickel and diming you for costume and inventory space.

I have played games like this, and i refuse to play games that block content unless you pay more. Untill now everything has been obtainable with ingame currency. I know this mini is a fluff item, and i don’t even want it, but if they don’t have it in the gem store, then it does make it inaccessible to those that already bought the game but dont buy gems. That is the 1st step in becoming one of those free games.

I know im just repeating myself over and over, so i’m done arguing, I know your providing money for future content, but that is your choice. This is a game, and why play a game if you cannot get items through actually playing it. If i want to play a game where i get exclusive items with my credit card i can choose any of the free games out there. The fact that GW2 has a different model is the reason i play it.

Good luck & enjoy your exclusive free pet you got using your credit card.

Don’t look at me, I too am a “freeloader” in GW2. But I accept the harsh economic reality behind it. I’m able to play for free because others are willing to carry my expense to ANet. I’ve learned to temper my wants and plan as best as I can to get them. Now if I was a mini collector, maybe I would finally pay the $50, a price of a new PC game at retail, to get the mini and 220 gold I would get exchanging the gems.

Yes you have a point to. This is the first item that is only available outside of the gem store and does set a bad precedent. But it’s a solution to a problem they created by having a mini as a con exclusive in the first place. It wouldn’t have been such a problem if they gave away funny town hats or even a special title. They stepped in it when they made it a collectible. This is their way to dig out of it and as long as it’s a one time thing, great.

In the future, if they want to drive gems for cash sales, do what everyone else does and have a gem bonus sale. Pay for X, get Y more.

Oh and ANet, get someone to sit on your pay server for gems full time. The failure rate seems to be ticking up again if the account forum is to be believed. I understand CC fraud is rampant in MMOs but it makes you feel like you’re flying and the TSA agents are in a bad mood. I can buy thousands of dollars of items online over my kitten phone while traveling in Istanbul but it seems loads of players can’t buy any amount of gems sitting at their desk in their homes. There’s got to be a better way that what you have right now. It’s passive aggressive nature may be costing you income.

Curse Drew.8679:

The cash shop is the incentives to spend real cash.

Incorrect. Because you have the ability to get “cash shop” currency for free using in game currency, the real incentives go to getting players to use real money instead.

There are players here who spend not a single penny on this game outside of the initial purchase of the client and account. These players, while hardcore and dedicated as they are, do not generate income for the company. Sales of new accounts and microtransactions are the bread and butter.

Too many people are not realizing how nice it is of anet to even offer gold to gem conversion so that you can play the game and not spend a single penny. Don’t forget that the only thing that drives this game is the gem store and it’s not from you folks who trade gold for gems.

I also have a feeling that 99% of the people here have never owned a business or even understand what it takes to do so. I think Penguin has made some really good points about why this is not only OK, but completely normal in the world of business. There isn’t a company around that doesn’t offer special discounts, sales or freebies to customers who spend more money. Anyone who goes out into the real world and spends money on consumer items will see this method being applied everywhere they go.

Finally, I can agree to some extent that this is a slippery slope situation when they start to make certain things only available to people who spend real money. However, this is not a case of something even remotely close to a P2W situation. It is a small luxury item that means nothing to anyone other than the hardcore collector’s. If and/or when anet starts to add things that become game changing that are only available to paying customers, you people will be able to make your arguments then about the wrong direction anet is taking. Until then, it’s time to put this topic to rest.

Curse Drew.8679:

I know im just repeating myself over and over, so i’m done arguing, I know your providing money for future content, but that is your choice. This is a game, and why play a game if you cannot get items through actually playing it. If i want to play a game where i get exclusive items with my credit card i can choose any of the free games out there. The fact that GW2 has a different model is the reason i play it.

Good luck & enjoy your exclusive free pet you got using your credit card.

You just marked what I tired to say, yet there are those who don’t want to hear it. It’s not a question of if you want the mini or not, but how do you get an item. Paying 50$ to get an exclusive item and then getting 4k gems (YES THAT’S HOW IT IS) is disappointing.

I said it before. If we accept this there will be more situations like this.

Its different then before cause when on Dragon Bash you for minis they were obtainable so you were like – here is 500 gems item if you don’t like its was free.

This one is an exclusive item and don’t write as minis aren’t important. It is an ITEM, next time it can be armor, skin, booster or account upgrade.

This thread exist only because I respected their business model and I still want to respect it. Until now they had great cash flow and I don’t believe they need to go this route. It is a major mistake.
That is why I say NO!

Behellagh.1468:

Yes you have a point to. This is the first item that is only available outside of the gem store and does set a bad precedent. But it’s a solution to a problem they created by having a mini as a con exclusive in the first place. It wouldn’t have been such a problem if they gave away funny town hats or even a special title. They stepped in it when they made it a collectible. This is their way to dig out of it and as long as it’s a one time thing, great.

1 question.

Why don’t they put it in gem store for 1k gold?

It would work. Buy 4k and get present for 1k or spend 1k gems for the mini.
It would work fine without making this exclusivity problem…

Yet they want to go the outside gem shop way.

That is disappointing to me.

Septemptus.7164:

You just marked what I tired to say, yet there are those who don’t want to hear it. It’s not a question of if you want the mini or not, but how do you get an item. Paying 50$ to get an exclusive item and then getting 4k gems (YES THAT’S HOW IT IS) is disappointing.

You’re paying $50 to get Gems. The item is a bonus, one that Anet didn’t have to give in the first place. So arguing over the fact that Anet is doing something nice for free is a bit low and mean spirited in the Christmas season.

Septemptus.7164:

Behellagh.1468:

Yes you have a point to. This is the first item that is only available outside of the gem store and does set a bad precedent. But it’s a solution to a problem they created by having a mini as a con exclusive in the first place. It wouldn’t have been such a problem if they gave away funny town hats or even a special title. They stepped in it when they made it a collectible. This is their way to dig out of it and as long as it’s a one time thing, great.

1 question.

Why don’t they put it in gem store for 1k gold?

It would work. Buy 4k and get present for 1k or spend 1k gems for the mini.
It would work fine without making this exclusivity problem…

Yet they want to go the outside gem shop way.

That is disappointing to me.

Because gem store items can be bought buy gems which can be bought by in game gold which sort of defeats the purpose of paying ANet cash which they want and don’t think it’s too much to ask for a mini that most every collector wouldn’t be able to get otherwise. It’s probably cheaper than the entry fee to either of the cons where they game it away or what they went for on eBay and still have the assurance that the code hadn’t been used already. It was an exclusive mini available to those game con attendees, now it’s exclusive to those who buy $50 in gems.

Yes I know, you don’t want to spend cash. Too bad. Their toys, their rules.

coglin.1867:

……
The second you suggest they are making anyone buy anything, you no longer have any credibility.

Yes indeed.

Curse Drew.8679:

denying a portion of it’s player base from ever being able to receive an item, that another player can easily buy with $50 is not good for it’s business model.

That is the business model. Add in box sales, and you have described exactly how this wonderful gameworld is funded.

If the notion of microtransactions offends you, then AAA MMO’s are not for you. This is where the whole industry’s headed. Every game will have a cash shop.

If the notion that others can pay for purely cosmetic items bothers you, then I do not understand how your brain works. The idea that minis are ‘P2W’ stretches the definition of ‘win’ to include anything you’d prefer to be different.

Just as an aside, even console games like Final Fantasy has microtransactions. Square Enix is offering costumes you can purchase for Lightning, making her fight in all types of revealing outfits.

But just as all games that have microtransactions, you must look at the purpose of such a sale. Is the game requiring you to buy something in order to play the game? Some do. I was recently told about hybrid models that have free and subscription type players. If you pay a subscription, you get access to more of the game content over the free players.

However, in GW2, the whole model is free to play, with optional purchases that you may (out of your own free will) make. If you don’t buy anything with real money, you still have access to 100% of the content within the game. You paid for the game account, and Anet allows you to enjoy all of the content from the start.

Oghier.7419:

Curse Drew.8679:

denying a portion of it’s player base from ever being able to receive an item, that another player can easily buy with $50 is not good for it’s business model.

That is the business model. Add in box sales, and you have described exactly how this wonderful gameworld is funded.

If the notion of microtransactions offends you, then AAA MMO’s are not for you. This is where the whole industry’s headed. Every game will have a cash shop.

If the notion that others can pay for purely cosmetic items bothers you, then I do not understand how your brain works. The idea that minis are ‘P2W’ stretches the definition of ‘win’ to include anything you’d prefer to be different.

I’m about done posting in these forums altogether, you amoung others have misinterpreted what i wrote, then you quote one sentance, and go on a rant stating the obvious. So again, i don’t have a problem with micro transactions, & the cash shop IS a good way to fund the game. The business model IS NOT about selling exclusive items for cash, because you can grind gold and exchange them for that item through the gem store.

Oghier.7419:

I do not understand how your brain works.

Maybe it’s a comprehension problem?

Curse Drew.8679:

I’m about done posting in these forums altogether, you amoung others have misinterpreted what i wrote, then you quote one sentance, and go on a rant stating the obvious. So again, i don’t have a problem with micro transactions, & the cash shop IS a good way to fund the game. The business model IS NOT about selling exclusive items for cash, because you can grind gold and exchange them for that item through the gem store.

I understood your distinction, but I believe it’s meaningless. Players grinding gold and converting to gems is not a business model, but a feature of the game. It produces no direct revenue. Most companies, after their initial growth stage, base their business model on activities that generate revenue. Anet is going to do things that encourage us to spend money, because that’s how they make it.

The real puzzler, though, is when people use words like “force” or “pay to win” in relation to buying cosmetic items. They make me wonder if we share common definitions of words like “force” and “win.” I don’t feel like I have lost the game because there are some minis I do not possess, and I can’t believe there are more than a very few people who do.

How many people do you think would be playing this game if they couldn’t convert gold to gems? I wouldn’t be. You know how many $60 initial purchases they would of lost if Anet hadn’t decided to go the route they did? I research games before i play them, and if i knew this was a game that blocked items to players who dont spend more cash before i bought it, i never would of. The game was designed with a gold to gem exchange, even if it doesn’t generate direct revenue, the fact they offer the option generated revenue from those who decided to play paying $60 orginally for the game for it’s fairness of this option.

No body said a mini pet is pay to win either, maybe you should reread the thread again. I only mentioned the tactic of blocking content follows the tactics of pay to win game’s business model. No one ever said GW2 was pay to win lol.

So thanks for making me repeat myself yet again, i’m really feeling like a broken record. I was already done with this thread, but just had to press my buttons by putting words in my mouth.

Oghier, I’m not going to defend people who complain about being forced to buy something. But what I will say is that perhaps in their mind, they feel that they “win” when they have cosmetically good looks. Of course, that doesn’t make this game Pay 2 Win by any means, but it would explain why some people are so livid over the fact that enhancements are locked behind the Gem Store.

That, or they have a compulsion to want everything in game, thus the psychological drive to “need” to buy, which leads to the “forced” argument. And my counter to that argument would be that they should seek professional help outside of the game.

Seriously, the pay to win again after what i just said, are you trying to make me crazy?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

they should seek professional help outside of the game.

Yep, i think i’m gunna need some of that!

Smooth Penguin.5294:

That, or they have a compulsion to want everything in game, thus the psychological drive to “need” to buy, which leads to the “forced” argument. And my counter to that argument would be that they should seek professional help outside of the game.

There are definitely people in this category, and they need to stop playing these games. If they bump into a cash shop as predatory as NWN’s, for example, they could drop thousands of dollars in short order, both for gear and cosmetics. Anet’s cash shop is pretty tame in comparison, but I suppose people could still get caught up in cosmetics.

Cursedrew, I am admittedly lumping your post into the broad swathe of complaints about the cash shop, most of which don’t make the distinctions you do. That’s unfair on my part. I simply think that cash shops are the future of MMO’s, at least for the big ones, and big part of their business model is going to be pushing people to buy stuff.

Curse Drew.8679:

Look i understand Anet needs to make money, but denying a portion of it’s player base from ever being able to receive an item, that another player can easily buy with $50 is not good for it’s business model. It really is one step closer to those pay to win korean mmorg’s where you can only get certain items by paying cash. I refuse to play these types of games, and the reason i play GW2 is because i can exchange gold for gems to get items from the shop. If Anet continues making items unobtainable to players who don’t buy gems, then i’ll have to conclude that this game isn’t for me.

I don’t care if this minipet cost 4000 gems in the cash shop, if there isn’t a legitimate way to achieve this item through the actaully game Anet has failed a large part of thier player who do not buy gems. We paid for this game too, and denying us content is not a good step for the game to take.

You keep saying that you are BUYING the mini and you are NOT. You are buying $X in gems (that can be spent for many other things in the gem shop…or just sit there…yet available) and you will be GIVEN FOR FREE the mini pet. Saying you are buying the mini over and over does not change the fact that the statement is simply NOT TRUE.

If your argument is that some players don’t buy gems, then those players do not support the continued operation of the game itself. I have no sympathy for their lack of a mini-pet (that is being given away).

It may not be true but if your goal is to acquire that mini, then that’s the only way. But those with that logic can’t ignore the fact they are still getting gems that they can spend or trade for gold.

Behellagh.1468:

It may not be true but if your goal is to acquire that mini, then that’s the only way. But those with that logic can’t ignore the fact they are still getting gems that they can spend or trade for gold.

But what if you don’t want or need them?
How many gems can you have stored for a time then something useful comes out?

I have plenty and if they introduce another deal like this when you can’t use gems or time to spend money disregards that you bought gems 2 month before you still have I will loose all remains or respect for people in there.

I also don’t want to transfer them to gold.
I play the game (not TP) and gold comes just like that.
I don’t need another boost to gold. I intend to play and slowly get my legendary (last thing to finish my alts to the point I’m happy with them).

So collectors are never going to spend either gold or gems ever again? Yeah, I don’t think so.

If you don’t want or need more Gems, don’t buy them. It’s pretty simple. No one is forcing you to spend money that you don’t want to spend. Just remember that if you choose not to buy Gems in December, you don’t get the bonus associated with it.