This is so wrong it makes me want to puke, I can’t believe how John Smith can stand reading this forum. Or that’s probably why he rarely shows up anymore.
The only thing that makes me want to puke are arguments like this – and accusing people of not doing their homework while bathing in ignorance.
Gold hardly disappears in account bound/soul bound stuff.
I try to retrace that the next time I build asc stuff and try to sell it. Of course it doesn’t disappear, you simply “convert” it – but it’s not in “the system” anymore. Or to use your kind of speech: it vanished into thin air, because no one except me can use my bound stuff, so it’s practically worthless to others.
Now let’s take a look a look at WvW food like lemongrass poultry. It costs 30 silver right now on the TP. Now let’s look at the cost of the ingredients
- Coconut: paid for by karma generated out of thin air
- Lemongrass: gathered out of thin air
- Slab of poultry meat: out of thin air from killing monsters
- Bowl of Herbed Poultry Stock: out of thin air except for 1 ingredient, jug of water that costs 8 copper
Food that vanishes into thin air btw after bought and consumed. And I forget, that you only need 2 min to get all this stuff, maybe that’s why people pay 30S for it.
The only person that said anything about my 3x figure thought I took the number directly from the gold and gem rate instead of the gold and dollar rate.
It doesn’t really matter what the exact number is, because no one is going to deny that inflation hasn’t happened.
“This must be true, because obviously this is true and only a fool would deny it…” – “Maybe I don’t have the exact number of presents delivered by Santa, but nobody can deny that christmas exists, so Santa does too.”
If you are going to keep arguing that contributes less to inflation than all the level 20 tp wizards who never farmed a single champ bag in their life , we are at an impasse that only John Smith can answer.
Arguing with John Smith and telling others to learn their maths doesn’t make an impression at all, really. It’s like these endless debates where people point towards their imaginery friend, when they run out of facts (“Because it’s gods will!” / “Reagan/Lincoln/Stalin would have said so too!”) …
Means: If he doesn’t say so, I don’t care if you refer to him a billion times.
The TP is not a gold sink is just player’s wealth leech.
The purpose of TP would be make gold value stable to give players a chance to earn gold to buy what they need…. the TP is failing at that
The TP isn’t a place where you should earn your gold – why should it be? It’s just a marketplace, to exchange goods. The “leechers” are those, who use it for making gold out of it and leech other players wealth this way. It’s like in the real world: “Well this item is worth 25 $, but I sell it to you for 80 $”.
I don’t want to condemn that (I made my gold this way too.), but I’d never say, that’s the way how it’s meant to be. Anet/GW2 just failed, like many other MMOs, to design the market in a way, where some couldn’t use it in a way to make some riches on the back of others. For Anet this is maybe actually a nice side effect, because some that conglomerate a lot of gold and can’t spend it useful for gems (ergo shop stuff) are better than a lot of players converting their gold into gems instead of buying gems.
Reason number 1:
You are FORCED to get what you need on the TP.
You can t realistically get what you need outside the tp.
No you are not. I got almost everything I wanted on my own, even the neverdropping pre’s – e. g. I hardly bought more than 90 % (except the pre in some cases) you need for a Legendary at the TP, because I had so much left in the bank. And I didn’t really farm it, I just got it by playing the game (my way). You can use the TP to achieve the stuff you want faster, but that doesn’t mean you are forced to.
Maybe you can’t get that if you play like 4 – 5 hours a week. But why should you? I don’t earn a Porsche with a 5 hour/week job either…
(edited by illo.5106)
Let see why you are wrong:
1) champ bags produce materials supply more than gold.2) an ascended set costs about 800-1000 considering weapons and armors, adding the crafting it would cost even more.
You need a PvE set and WWW set and then there are alts.
At a given point you will probably want also skins that agaon costs a lot to craft
Let’s see why you are wrong.
1) I was not only talking about champ bags. Whenever people are done with a farming session they come out with more gold than they had before.
2) TP players also soulbind and crafts soulbound items. Or if you are claiming they don’t, then they are draining gold from the economy without buying stuff. Guess what? This causes deflation.
Either way you put it you failed to prove traders cause more inflation than farming.
The only thing that makes me want to puke are arguments like this – and accusing people of not doing their homework while bathing in ignorance.
I mean it is already bad enough that people here can’t understand basic math and econ 101, but you are even arrogant towards the people that do. John Smith’s lack of action towards your perceived problems supports my arguments.
I try to retrace that the next time I build asc stuff and try to sell it. Of course it doesn’t disappear, you simply “convert” it – but it’s not in “the system” anymore.
So again, are you saying that traders don’t soulbind anything for their own personal use? Because that means they cause lower demand than pve players, thus lowering inflation.
Food that vanishes into thin air btw after bought and consumed. And I forget, that you only need 2 min to get all this stuff, maybe that’s why people pay 30S for it.
You’re not understanding the argument at all. When you pay 30 silver for lemongrass poultry, 25.5 silver remains in the system. It doesn’t just disappear because you ate it. It merely changed hands. Making the food itself only removes 8 copper from the system which pales in comparison from the 4.5 silver trading fee.
“This must be true, because obviously this is true and only a fool would deny it…” – “Maybe I don’t have the exact number of presents delivered by Santa, but nobody can deny that christmas exists, so Santa does too.”
You’re seriously arguing there has been no inflation and your comparing it to the existence of Santa?
I have nothing more to say about this than to quietly chuckle to myself.
Well, I already said the guardian example was an extreme case, but it was meant to demonstrate that by increasing demand and not contributing to supply it is possible to increase inflation. I wanted to point out that gold generation and destruction are not the only factors in inflation. If half the materials in the world were to disappear overnight and 20% of the gold, what would happen to inflation?
As for your numbered points:
1) I don’t see how this is relevant.
2) You are essentially agreeing that people who get rich on the TP reduce the purchasing power of other players.
3) again, how is this relevant?
Yes it is possible, but if you use a ridiculous example, it is about as “probable” as getting 3 precursors in a row from the mystic forge.
1) It is relevant because you think trader earnings is not proportional to the amount of money in the system. Traders are affected by inflation just like everyone else, they are not immune to it.
2) They didn’t lose purchasing power, they just decided to spend a premium to buy and sell immediately.
If I am wildly rich compared to everyone else, and the top bid for rare item X is only 50g, I am going to bid 51g. I am not going to bid an amount proportional to my total wealth.
3) It is relevant because the number of traders earning significant amounts is far smaller than you think and is smaller than the rare goods on the market.
John Smith himself showed that 100 dusks were being traded every day, nearly all of them to unique sellers and buyers. I highly doubt all the traders are buying up 50 dusks a day.
Since it’s a fix price gems per dollar, the rate at the exchange is still valid, simply multiply the gem to gold rate by 0.80. But since you are comparing from year to year the adjustment factors out.
I’m not talking about the dollar to gem to gold rate. And also the ratio is not 0.8. It is 0.72.
(edited by Gewd.8125)
I mean it is already bad enough that people here can’t understand basic math and econ 101, but you are even arrogant towards the people that do. John Smith’s lack of action towards your perceived problems supports my arguments.
Imaginery friend – see before.
To make it more clear (and less friendly): YOU sir don’t understand math, because you constantly ignore all the factors, that won’t contribute your cause, but have to be implied. That shows that you don’t understand it at all if you can be disproven with one argument/factor – but you just say: “Nah, doesn’t count.”
It’s like a Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham debate with you, where one always points to facts and the other one constantly denies them or gives a neverending speech, that has nothing to do with them, why they won’t count.
If you really want to get down on maths, I’m expecting your formula on this and we can go on discussing. But seriously, something below like this won’t gain my interest.
So again, are you saying that traders don’t soulbind anything for their own personal use? Because that means they cause lower demand than pve players, thus lowering inflation.
That’s what you said, but don’t mind not understanding the irony.
To make it simpler: soulbound stuff = worthless = goods and gold taken out of the market.
Making the food itself only removes 8 copper from the system which pales in comparison from the 4.5 silver trading fee.
Nope, because people usually don’t craft with what they have (that’s what I tried to demonstrate with my answer), they buy it at the TP. So the gold loss is much bigger, because you have a 15 % loss for every of those items (except karma).
Again: More gold taken out of the system than you thought.
You’re seriously arguing there has been no inflation and your comparing it to the existence of Santa?
I’m saying that you try to prove one thing you stated (and can’t prove properly) with something that obviously is true.
Until then you have to just sit on your investment and you never know what will happen until then. The demand for the item could decrease, A-net could increase the supply so their is always a risk.
To be honest: I knew the price would go up, ’cause two of my old TP mates told me they were going to push them with their guild.
Long term you turn that chaos gun into a 550g profit in what? half a year.
Less than 8 weeks and it was 24 x ~ 800G, cause I don’t sell to bidders.
Shorterm you can turn that 300g into a 5-20% profit daily. That is 15-60g a day for 6 months 450-1800g.
Sure, but you have to put much more work into it. That’s the point why I quitted it, because I wanted to play the game and not doing the work I already do at work.
If A-net made precursors craftable that chaos gun investment could have been a lost in money.
Anet will hardly do this, because Legendaries are already craftable (Ascended). The only risk you have with flipping pre’s is, that Anet simply would increase the drop – usually that’s the easiest solution to solve many TP issues, but as I said before: I think Anet is for some reason quite ok with the status quo, since it increases the demand for buying gold (gems).
(edited by illo.5106)
The example was extreme, not the claim. That’s an important distinction.
If you make a claim based on an extreme example, your claim is just as weak. A sturdy house on a shaky foundation is not sturdy.
To make it more clear (and less friendly): YOU sir don’t understand math, because you constantly ignore all the factors, that won’t contribute your cause, but have to be implied. That shows that you don’t understand it at all if you can be disproven with one argument/factor – but you just say: “Nah, doesn’t count.”
It’s like a Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham debate with you, where one always points to facts and the other one constantly denies them or gives a neverending speech, that has nothing to do with them, why they won’t count.
If you really want to get down on maths, I’m expecting your formula on this and we can go on discussing. But seriously, something below like this won’t gain my interest.
Out of both of us, the only person who has provided any hard numbers and cited actual events is… me.
Your arguments go something like this: “I am saying something I think is right so even though I have no numbers or events to back up, I am going to bring up Santa Clause and creationism to win the argument”.
If anything is ironic, it is this.
That’s what you said, but don’t mind not understanding the irony. To make it simpler: soulbound stuff = worthless = goods and gold taken out of the market.
I’m going to try to make this as short as possible because you seem to have the reading comprehension of a 5 year old.
Traders also soul bind = worthless = goods and gold taken out of the market
Non-trader soul binding deflation same as trader
Nope, because people usually don’t craft with what they have (that’s what I tried to demonstrate with my answer), they buy it at the TP.
So how is this relevant to proving the TP destroys more gold than anything else?
Also, let me paste something straight from your own mouth.
you only need 2 min to get all this stuff
Why would most people buy it if it takes 2 minutes? At 30 silver per 2 minutes, that’s 7.65 gph.
I’m saying that you try to prove one thing you stated (and can’t prove properly) with something that obviously is true.
I’m trying to prove something with something that obviously is true, what’s the problem here? Haha do you even know what you are typing anymore?
(edited by thaooo.5320)
(edited by Cormac.3871)
