Guild Wars 2

kitanas.3596:

alcopaul

you do realize that players set the gem->gold ratio right?

i don’t care about gold -> gem ratio since you can’t cash out gems. i only care about gem -> gold ratio since real money is the starting point of this conversion.

its the players who buy gems with real money and convert the gems to gold but the baseline is too low compared to the black market. the black market usually know the real value of gold based on its in game acquisition. remember these gold sellers are acquiring gold by playing the game.

alcopaul.2156:

kitanas.3596:

alcopaul

you do realize that players set the gem->gold ratio right?

i don’t care about gold -> gem ratio since you can’t cash out gems. i only care about gem -> gold ratio since real money is the starting point of this conversion.

its the players who buy gems with real money and convert the gems to gold but the baseline is too low compared to the black market. the black market usually know the real value of gold based on its in game acquisition. remember these gold sellers are acquiring gold by playing the game.

I am done playing nice … your post just got forwarded

VendettaDFA.9368:

alcopaul.2156:

kitanas.3596:

alcopaul

you do realize that players set the gem->gold ratio right?

i don’t care about gold -> gem ratio since you can’t cash out gems. i only care about gem -> gold ratio since real money is the starting point of this conversion.

its the players who buy gems with real money and convert the gems to gold but the baseline is too low compared to the black market. the black market usually know the real value of gold based on its in game acquisition. remember these gold sellers are acquiring gold by playing the game.

I am done playing nice … your post just got forwarded

instead of attacking me, provide a valid argument other than “these gold sellers are illegal scums.” pitch of yours.

and mind you, i spent over 150 dollars on the bltc and im planning to spend more if the conversion of gems → gold gets higher.

alcopaul.2156:

VendettaDFA.9368:

alcopaul.2156:

kitanas.3596:

alcopaul

you do realize that players set the gem->gold ratio right?

i don’t care about gold -> gem ratio since you can’t cash out gems. i only care about gem -> gold ratio since real money is the starting point of this conversion.

its the players who buy gems with real money and convert the gems to gold but the baseline is too low compared to the black market. the black market usually know the real value of gold based on its in game acquisition. remember these gold sellers are acquiring gold by playing the game.

I am done playing nice … your post just got forwarded

instead of attacking me, provide a valid argument other than “these gold sellers are illegal scums.” pitch of yours.

and mind you, i spent over 150 dollars on the bltc.

too late … you are promoting violators of the terms of agreement over and over ad nausium … you should be and hopefully will be infracted right off the forums… and no loss to us.

try to be a.net’s white knight but you’re not getting my point. what im really telling you which you don’t get is that the gem->gold conversion rate of BLTC is too low.

im not linking you to bots or gold sellers site and saying you to “buy gold in gold sellers.” so i don’t think im violating anything here.

and im asking you VendettaDFA, do you think the GEM->GOLD ratio is high or low? and why?

Don’t reply me “Gold sellers are illegal scums.”

alcopaul.2156:

and im asking you VendettaDFA, do you think the GEM->GOLD ratio is high or low? and why?

Don’t reply me “Gold sellers are illegal scums.”

excerpt from forum code of conduct:

•Do not breach the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement. Any post or thread in which a player admits to violating the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement, encourages others to violate the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement, or violates the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement itself will be removed and the forum account will be terminated.

thats pretty darn close and the mods have ultimate discretion ….

try again.

I said gem→gold, NOT gold→gem. although we do control both.

VendettaDFA.9368:

alcopaul.2156:

and im asking you VendettaDFA, do you think the GEM->GOLD ratio is high or low? and why?

Don’t reply me “Gold sellers are illegal scums.”

excerpt from forum code of conduct:

•Do not breach the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement. Any post or thread in which a player admits to violating the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement, encourages others to violate the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement, or violates the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement itself will be removed and the forum account will be terminated.

thats pretty darn close and the mods have ultimate discretion ….

I believe that the mods are reasonable and have broader understanding than you who just spurts “Gold sellers are illegal scums, period.”

@alcopaul:
The point Hippocampus made about the gold → gem exchange rate also applies to the gem → gold exchange rate as the two rates are linked.

If, as you suggest, more people are buying gold from the gold sellers, then that would lead to less gems being available for people who wish to buy them for gold. While I can’t state with any certainty what volume of trade is happening via the official exchange, it seems to me that the rising rate of gems → gold indicates that the “market” is moving in the direction you desire.

Also, “the black market usually know the real value of gold based on its in game acquisition. remember these gold sellers are acquiring gold by playing the game” is quite misleading. Gold sellers are likely acquiring gold by using bots and/or compromising accounts, rather than actually just playing the game.

kitanas.3596:

try again.

I said gem->gold, NOT gold->gem. although we do control both.

i answered your question. real money patrons have control of that but i think the baseline is too low.

alcopaul.2156:

kitanas.3596:

try again.

I said gem->gold, NOT gold->gem. although we do control both.

i answered your question. real money patrons have control of that but i think the baseline is too low.

what question? you made the statment that areanet controls the gem to gold rate is controled by areanet.

source:

alcopaul.2156:

i’m not pro botter. im just saying that a.net valuation of gold based on GEM-> GOLD ratio is low. Gold sellers know the right price because they know HOW GOLD ARE ACQUIRED IN GAME.

I stated the fact that this was not the case, that in fact the players controlled the gem->gold ratio. that is all

in response to your point, if you are talking about people who by money from 3rd party sites, they have very little, if any, effect on the gem→gold rate at all. and the only effect they WOULD have is to drive the gem→gold rate up, as they are not buying gems to drive the price down.

alcopaul.2156:

and im asking you VendettaDFA, do you think the GEM->GOLD ratio is high or low? and why?

Don’t reply me “Gold sellers are illegal scums.”

I dont have to validate any of your rhetoric. There is one legitiamte seller of gems for real money … ANET. If you think the price is too high … dont buy from them. Why you claim rip-off on one hand and I spent 150 dollars on the other says it all. You have no ability to stand for what you believe. I would tell them its too high and still have 150 dollars.
My response to the OP was similar dont use an illegal gold seller to try and validate your position… man up and say it on your own. …. but too late like i said

kitanas.3596:

alcopaul.2156:

kitanas.3596:

try again.

I said gem->gold, NOT gold->gem. although we do control both.

i answered your question. real money patrons have control of that but i think the baseline is too low.

what question? you made the statment that areanet controls the gem to gold rate is controled by areanet.

source:

alcopaul.2156:

i’m not pro botter. im just saying that a.net valuation of gold based on GEM-> GOLD ratio is low. Gold sellers know the right price because they know HOW GOLD ARE ACQUIRED IN GAME.

I stated the fact that this was not the case, that in fact the players controlled the gem->gold ratio. that is all

they set the baseline and that baseline is now manipulated by real money patrons. but that set baseline is too low. the valuation of gold based on its purchasing power in game directly insults the value of real money.

VendettaDFA.9368:

alcopaul.2156:

and im asking you VendettaDFA, do you think the GEM->GOLD ratio is high or low? and why?

Don’t reply me “Gold sellers are illegal scums.”

excerpt from forum code of conduct:

•Do not breach the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement. Any post or thread in which a player admits to violating the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement, encourages others to violate the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement, or violates the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement itself will be removed and the forum account will be terminated.

thats pretty darn close and the mods have ultimate discretion ….

How is that pretty darn close? Sure, alcopaul doesn’t start every post with a disclaimer about not endorsing third-party gold sellers like they do on the black market page at guildwarstrade.com, but I don’t see anything coming close to admitting to or encouraging others to violate the user agreement.

Saying that black market gold is a better indicator of the actual dollar amount most users place on gold may not be exactly correct, but it’s not at all the same as saying therefore players should buy black market gold.

It’s not correct because gold seller gold must be cheaper than ANet gold in order to have any hope of competing, even if it ends up being much lower than what the average player is happy to pay for a given amount of gold. It is the riskier choice, in addition to being morally wrong in most people’s views. Therefore, gold sellers have to counter the moral cost and risk-factor cost by lowering the real money cost.

For example, suppose the idealized completely free market equilibrium price at a particular time was $1 = 1g, meaning that the same number of people were willing to pay $1 for 1g as were willing to sell 1g for $1. If ANet’s exchange reflected this, so that 80 gems ($1 worth) could get you 1g, then black market gold would necessarily be quite a bit cheaper than that, or else the sites selling it couldn’t make any money because no one would have any reason to buy from them.

VendettaDFA.9368:

alcopaul.2156:

and im asking you VendettaDFA, do you think the GEM->GOLD ratio is high or low? and why?

Don’t reply me “Gold sellers are illegal scums.”

I dont have to validate any of your rhetoric. There is one legitiamte seller of gems for real money … ANET. If you think the price is too high … dont buy from them. Why you claim rip-off on one hand and I spent 150 dollars on the other says it all. You have no ability to stand for what you believe. I would tell them its too high and still have 150 dollars.
My response to the OP was similar dont use an illegal gold seller to try and validate your position… man up and say it on your own. …. but too late like i said

i spent 210 dollars to be exact, 100 dollars of them buying gems and converting them all to gold. i didn’t mind about gold conversion rate at first because i want to support them and i don’t care. then i saw an advertisement from a gold seller selling 100g +5% for 50 dollars. then i had some thoughts.

im not regretting that i spent cash on bltc but there’s this devil’s advocate on the back of my head that “i maybe got ripped off.” but i don’t care really.

and you don’t have to forward my post. all is documented in this forums. i trust a.nets judgment. i bet you want me banned because i just think that gold sellers got the valuation right. this is a position, an opinion. freedom of speech, you want?

Hippocampus.8470:

VendettaDFA.9368:

alcopaul.2156:

and im asking you VendettaDFA, do you think the GEM->GOLD ratio is high or low? and why?

Don’t reply me “Gold sellers are illegal scums.”

excerpt from forum code of conduct:

•Do not breach the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement. Any post or thread in which a player admits to violating the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement, encourages others to violate the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement, or violates the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement itself will be removed and the forum account will be terminated.

thats pretty darn close and the mods have ultimate discretion ….

How is that pretty darn close? Sure, alcopaul doesn’t start every post with a disclaimer about not endorsing third-party gold sellers like they do on the black market page at guildwarstrade.com, but I don’t see anything coming close to admitting to or encouraging others to violate the user agreement.

Saying that black market gold is a better indicator of the actual dollar amount most users place on gold may not be exactly correct, but it’s not at all the same as saying therefore players should buy black market gold.

It’s not correct because gold seller gold must be cheaper than ANet gold in order to have any hope of competing, even if it ends up being much lower than what the average player is happy to pay for a given amount of gold. It is the riskier choice, in addition to being morally wrong in most people’s views. Therefore, gold sellers have to counter the moral cost and risk-factor cost by lowering the real money cost.

For example, suppose the idealized completely free market equilibrium price at a particular time was $1 = 1g, meaning that the same number of people were willing to pay $1 for 1g as were willing to sell 1g for $1. If ANet’s exchange reflected this, so that 80 gems ($1 worth) could get you 1g, then black market gold would necessarily be quite a bit cheaper than that, or else the sites selling it couldn’t make any money because no one would have any reason to buy from them.

Any attempt at using the black market to validate or defend a position will not be accepted by me. Go back to your economy. I would rather be on the right side of this and outnumbered than to be counted among your side.

alcopaul.2156:

kitanas.3596:

alcopaul.2156:

kitanas.3596:

try again.

I said gem->gold, NOT gold->gem. although we do control both.

i answered your question. real money patrons have control of that but i think the baseline is too low.

what question? you made the statment that areanet controls the gem to gold rate is controled by areanet.

source:

alcopaul.2156:

i’m not pro botter. im just saying that a.net valuation of gold based on GEM-> GOLD ratio is low. Gold sellers know the right price because they know HOW GOLD ARE ACQUIRED IN GAME.

I stated the fact that this was not the case, that in fact the players controlled the gem->gold ratio. that is all

they set the baseline and that baseline is now manipulated by real money patrons. but that set baseline is too low. the valuation of gold based on its purchasing power in game directly insults the value of real money.

I think we are not understanding each other. what do you mean by “setting the baseline” and “real money patrons” you keep saying those terms, and I obviously don’t understand what you mean by them ,so I can effectively respond to them?

VendettaDFA.9368:

Any attempt at using the black market to validate or defend a position will not be accepted by me.

Look, if you’d rather stick your head in the sand and pretend that illegal markets have nothing to tell us about anything, go right ahead.

But don’t go tattling on everyone who disagrees with you. That just makes you look extremely childish.

Hippocampus.8470:

VendettaDFA.9368:

Any attempt at using the black market to validate or defend a position will not be accepted by me.

Look, if you’d rather stick your head in the sand and pretend that illegal markets have nothing to tell us about anything, go right ahead.

But don’t go tattling on everyone who disagrees with you. That just makes you look extremely childish.

Put your bait away … im not biting ….. I have seen your posts …. “what did ya do write all their names down?”

kitanas.3596:

I think we are not understanding each other. what do you mean by “setting the baseline” and “real money patrons” you keep saying those terms, and I obviously don’t understand what you mean by them ,so I can effectively respond to them?

setting the baseline, i was referring to the initial conversion rate that A.NET set arbitrarily. they set the initial value of the conversion rate.

real money patrons, i was referring to the people who buy gems using their credit cards/paypal.

the number of gold required to be converted to gem has to be higher than the number of gems required to be converted to gold because gold is essentially free/has no monetary value considering only the BLTC. the BLTC only sells gems so it is the Gems that has monetary equivalent. and to not insult the value of real money, it has to be made that gems should be able to get more gold compared to what we have now. and in my opinion the real money-> gold valuation of gold sellers are reasonable.

im not asking you to buy gold from gold sellers. im asking a.net to raise the conversion rate (by this less gems -> more gold unidirectional) , (and if its comparable to the gold sellers valuation, then i will be more happy to spend more money buying gems in bltc.)

As has already been pointed out, though, ANet’s prices will always be higher than gold sellers’ prices, and they will likewise always be more expensive than some people are willing to pay.

alcopaul.2156:

kitanas.3596:

I think we are not understanding each other. what do you mean by “setting the baseline” and “real money patrons” you keep saying those terms, and I obviously don’t understand what you mean by them ,so I can effectively respond to them?

setting the baseline, i was referring to the initial conversion rate that A.NET set arbitrarily. they set the initial value of the conversion rate.

real money patrons, i was referring to the people who buy gems using their credit cards/paypal.

the number of gold convertible to gem has to be higher than the number of gems convertible to gold because gold is essentially free/has no monetary value considering only the BLTC. the BLTC sells gems so it is the Gems that has monetary equivalent. and to not insult the value of real money, it has to be made that gems should be able to get more gold compared to what we have now. and in my opinion the real money-> gold valuation of gold sellers are reasonable.

im not asking you to buy gold from gold sellers. im asking a.net to raise the conversion rate (by this less gems -> more gold unidirectional) , (and if its comparable to the gold sellers valuation, then i will be more happy to spend more money buying gems in bltc.)

OK. thank you for defining those terms. yes A-net set the initial price of gems. but because any system has to start somewhere. and considering 1) that they originally set it at the begging of the game, and 2) that its been months since that time, the initial price of gems (20s per 100 gems unless I miss my geuss) is both reasonable and no longer has any bearing on the current price.

as for how the price is effected, it’s not only the price effected by people buying gold with gems, it’s also effected by people paying gold for gems. more people selling gems for gold drives the price down, people buying gems with gold drive the price up. for evidence, consider that the price jumped by around 5-10 silver when halloween started. if only people who buy gems with their credit card are responsible, then what explains this?

Hippocampus.8470:

As has already been pointed out, though, ANet’s prices will always be higher than gold sellers’ prices, and they will likewise always be more expensive than some people are willing to pay.

but a.net has to consider the actual value of gold in game and its in game purchasing power. they have to control the market (lower the prices) to justify their gem->gold rate ratio. if they can’t lower the prices, they should raise their conversion rate by a factor determined by considering in game purchasing power of gold and the easiness/difficulty of gold acquisition.

a.net telling me that the value of legendary precursor on sale on the market is around $1112 based on the current BLTC gem->gold rates is like telling me that i have to roast my pc on the oven and enjoy a hearty meal out of it. it’s bananas.

kitanas.3596:

as for how the price is effected, it’s not only the price effected by people buying gold with gems, it’s also effected by people paying gold for gems. more people selling gems for gold drives the price down, people buying gems with gold drive the price up. for evidence, consider that the price jumped by around 5-10 silver when halloween started. if only people who buy gems with their credit card are responsible, then what explains this?

gem to gold ratio is different from gold to gem ratio. so i guess that there are different unique factors that affect them individually

im just concerned about gem->gold ratio since in this direction, real money is used.

alcopaul.2156:

kitanas.3596:

as for how the price is effected, it’s not only the price effected by people buying gold with gems, it’s also effected by people paying gold for gems. more people selling gems for gold drives the price down, people buying gems with gold drive the price up. for evidence, consider that the price jumped by around 5-10 silver when halloween started. if only people who buy gems with their credit card are responsible, then what explains this?

gem to gold ratio is different from gold to gem ratio. so i guess that there are different unique factors that affect them individually

im just concerned about gem->gold ratio since in this direction, real money is used.

the difference in the numbers is due to areanet putting a “transaction fee” there to discourage “playing the market”. if you look at the graphs for the price in both modes, you will see that the two prices go up and down at the same time. when the gem->gold price goes up, so to does the gold->gem, and vice-versa. if they were controlled by separate systems, the price changes wouldn’t correlate exactly the way they do.

they both spiked at the same time because people with gold were converting gold with gems and people were buying gems with real money.

i think that when a lot of people are converting gold to gems, gems value go up. and i also when people buy more gems from bltc, the gems value go up. bltc keys need gems and this event, people with gold bought gems and people without gold used money to get gems to get keys.

so you saw an almost identical spike in the graph.

alcopaul.2156:

they both spiked at the same time because people with gold were converting gold with gems and people were buying gems with real money.

i think that when a lot of people are converting gold to gems, gems value go up. and i also when people buy more gems from bltc, the gems value go up. bltc keys need gems and this event, people with gold bought gems and people without gold used money to get gems to get keys.

so you saw an almost identical spike in the graph.

I’m not just talking about a one-time spike at halloween. once might be coicedence. I’m talking about every shift in the pricing. here’s just two examples you can look at right now. from wed 8pm to Thursday 9AM, prices on gold to gems spiked to just above 1 gold before falling to around 75s and then climbs back. you can see an identical looking spike, fall, and recovery in the gems->gold graph. at sun 3AM, both graphs take an identical dip.

I am really concerned with the way the market has inflated over the last few weeks.
I can only assume its from botters etc and its making it impossible for us normal players to be able to afford anything.
I really hope the devs are looking at this problem as if not it will price normal players out of the game and cause them a massive loss in playerbase both current and new….

alcopaul.2156:

so you saw an almost identical spike in the graph.

They’re not almost identical, they’re exactly identical. If you use gw2spidy to look at the entire history of gold-gem rates, you’ll see that every price change that happens in one also happens in the other.

This is a clear sign that ANet really just has one rate, and we get two due to transaction fees.

Anet is between a rock and a hard place.

The comparison can be made between America and China with the imbalances of how China purposely manipulates it’s currency.

If Anet just increases the Gem to Gold exchange, then inflation would be through the roof and the markets would come screeching to a halt (Esspecially for those who are the most poor and unwilling to put real money into an exchange). As it is, the exchange rate for “chinese” currency gets you more bang for your buck.

Most of these botters and websites that sell gold, even worse, are over seas and cannot be touched because of extradition problems. How can ANET put a dent into illegal accounts like that when they have no real teeth to bite with?

In the end, only software upgrades can keep anet from floudering in this crazy inflation we have now. $1000 for a precursor weapon…that’s batkitten nuts.

It’s nuts when you consider paying that much for it outright, sure. But when you consider that it’s supposed to take hundreds of hours of play time to be able to get that much gold, it’s less crazy. Hundreds of hours of your time should be worth $1000, or else you’re not valuing your time highly enough.

part of the problem is everyone having to put a value on gold made in a game, this is just CRAZYNESS

nothing you get in a virtual world has any value whatsoever, If you want to put a value on your time GO GET A kittenIN JOB.

Your characters themselves are things you get in a virtual world, and you paid $60 for five of them.

Please try again with more sense this time.

Only read to post 50 or so, but @ alcopaul:

No, gold sellers don’t get their money by playing in game. Gold sellers get their money by stealing the accounts of people who buy from them, taking their gold, and reselling it to another person who is hopefully dumb enough to use the same password on the gold site as their account, thus perpetuating the cycle.

They also use bots, hacks and anything else they can find.

Gold sellers are not your unemployed neighbor who plays 16 hours a day. Well, maybe they are, but he’s playing 10 bots at once while stealing the accounts of 4 others at the same time.