Guild Wars 2

Ohoni.6057:

Yeah and well nobody is just handed the gold to purchase what they need for their legendaries. You assume that they already have the gold so therefore account bound items require more effort as a result. Just look back at what you said.

You use quantifiers such as plenty but exactly how many people are plenty? If they’re a large amount of players then that makes all of your arguments in other threads about precursors needing to be cheaper irrelevant. How can you argue in one thread that account bound items for legendaries take more effort than obtaining gold and then in another thread arguing that obtaining gold is so difficult that something must be done to make precursors more obtainable?

You’re trying to turn this into a semantics argument again, but the point remains that there are some people for whom gaining gold is a very effort and time consuming activity, but others for whom it is a fairly simple and casual experience, so gold should not be the primary factor in who can get a legendary or not.

Actually, you’re the one who started the entire semantics thing. You feel that because some people can earn gold easily in the game that that must mean that account bound items require more effort for everyone irregardless as to how easily they can earn gold.

You keep diverting the discussion to random tangents because you do not want to counter the arguments presented to you. The original argument I made was against your statement that most of the materials used for a legendary are account bound.

It just seems like it’s impossible to have a rational discussion as the second you cannot counter something you attempt to change your argument just as you did which brought us into this whole effort nonsense. You then rely on arguments that are very specific and apply it to the whole such as your argument that because plenty of people earn gold easily, and would thus make account bound items require more effort, then this must apply to everyone.

Ohoni.6057:

Why do the “I have a lot of gold” ingredients need to be toned down when you clearly stated that getting the gold for them requires less effort than getting the account bound items for the legendaries? You also missed the point with my example.

I’m saying that it can take less work, not that it always does. That’s my point, the amount of effort that goes into accumulating gold varies far too wildly from person to person. If every player had to put forth the exact same amount of gameplay effort to accumulate 1500g then I wouldn’t be so opposed to using it as a metric of overall accomplishment.

No. You never said that it can take less work in your arguments. I know this because you have been consistently arguing that plenty of players can earn gold easily so account bound items require more effort. When I questioned you that this was not true, you still help your argument. So now it appears you’re changing it once again like you did earlier with another argument.

Exactly what do you consider game-play? Flipping on the TP is game-play whether you or HHR want to accept it or not. It’s part of the game and requires a certain skill set just as dungeon running and other activities require.

It just seems like it’s impossible to have a rational discussion as the second you cannot counter something you attempt to change your argument just as you did which brought us into this whole effort nonsense. You then rely on arguments that are very specific and apply it to the whole such as your argument that because plenty of people earn gold easily, and would thus make account bound items require more effort, then this must apply to everyone.

My point is actually that it doesn’t apply to everyone, because the gold is distributed unevenly. That’s why it is a problem when things become gold-based, because those who more easily make gold can more easily acquire those things than those players who do not as easily acquire gold.

Exactly what do you consider game-play? Flipping on the TP is game-play whether you or HHR want to accept it or not. It’s part of the game and requires a certain skill set just as dungeon running and other activities require.

Nope.

LAWL … gold disparity is a problem. That’s a new one.

Obtena.7952:

LAWL … gold disparity is a problem. That’s a new one.

There’s nothing new about it. It is one of the reasons Anet posted the information graph in the beginning of the game boasting the equality of the game vs the disparity of rl. Things have changed since then towards mimicking rl.

Ohoni.6057:

Exactly what do you consider game-play? Flipping on the TP is game-play whether you or HHR want to accept it or not. It’s part of the game and requires a certain skill set just as dungeon running and other activities require.

Nope.

Yep. It’s part of the game. Do I need to provide you a quote from Anet stating that it is?

Ohoni.6057:

It just seems like it’s impossible to have a rational discussion as the second you cannot counter something you attempt to change your argument just as you did which brought us into this whole effort nonsense. You then rely on arguments that are very specific and apply it to the whole such as your argument that because plenty of people earn gold easily, and would thus make account bound items require more effort, then this must apply to everyone.

My point is actually that it doesn’t apply to everyone, because the gold is distributed unevenly. That’s why it is a problem when things become gold-based, because those who more easily make gold can more easily acquire those things than those players who do not as easily acquire gold.

And yet you don’t mention that in any of your arguments.

Well if it doesn’t apply to everyone then your argument that account bound items being requiring more effort doesn’t apply to everyone. Take into the fact that only a small percentage of players likely have enough gold to buy all of the ingredients for the legendary weapons, your argument applies to only a small percentage of players making it not really relevant to the original discussion.

Take into the fact that only a small percentage of players likely have enough gold to buy all of the ingredients for the legendary weapons, your argument applies to only a small percentage of players making it not really relevant to the original discussion.

More people have either the gold to buy those ingredients or the ingredients themselves than have all of that PLUS enough for a Precursor, so I believe it’s still a valid point. But sure, the price of T6 mats could certainly stand to drop considerably.

Essence Snow.3194:

Obtena.7952:

LAWL … gold disparity is a problem. That’s a new one.

There’s nothing new about it. It is one of the reasons Anet posted the information graph in the beginning of the game boasting the equality of the game vs the disparity of rl. Things have changed since then towards mimicking rl.

You’re right, it’s not new, it’s stupid. I’m just impressed someone has the audacity to actually bring it up. I do have to admit, it is interesting to see how far some of these socialist ideals go when discussing theoreticals in a MMO. I’m waiting for the thread that goes like this:

“Anet, please make it so whatever I want is free because it’s the only way to guarantee ‘equality’ for every player. Also, make it so I can just click to get my achievements done; it’s not politically correct to make me feel bad because someone has higher achievement score than I do. Also, give me an I WIN button for PVP so I can prevent losing; it’s not fair.”

Obtena.7952:

Essence Snow.3194:

Obtena.7952:

LAWL … gold disparity is a problem. That’s a new one.

There’s nothing new about it. It is one of the reasons Anet posted the information graph in the beginning of the game boasting the equality of the game vs the disparity of rl. Things have changed since then towards mimicking rl.

You’re right, it’s not new, it’s stupid. I’m just impressed someone has the audacity to actually bring it up. I do have to admit, it is interesting to see how far some of these socialist ideals go when discussing theoreticals in a MMO. I’m waiting for the thread that goes like this:

“Anet, please make it so whatever I want is free because it’s the only way to guarantee ‘equality’ for every player. Also, make it so I can just click to get my achievements done; it’s not politically correct to make me feel bad because someone has higher achievement score than I do. Also, give me an I WIN button for PVP so I can prevent losing; it’s not fair.”

Well Anet brought it up in the beginning of the game, so I’m not really sure what you’re saying that says about them.

I don’t believe any in the current discussion are asking for free,intsa win buttons,etc etc… or have even brought it up besides you. I mean there’s reasonable and then there’s this stigma that you’re attaching to something that no one is saying.

Morsus.5106:

Romek.4201:

this spiritweapons or all items you posted are no problem

they are easy crafted and only problem material for this and ever was are SKILLPOINTZ

Skill points are a problem? I had almost 550 on my main a few days ago, and then I bought a bloodstone shard.

yes they are – atleast for people who know how to make gold with skillpoints

Essence Snow.3194:

Well Anet brought it up in the beginning of the game, so I’m not really sure what you’re saying that says about them.

I’m not sure what you are referring to but the way they have implemented the game is the reality here and it’s indicative enough to know they aren’t going to take a socialist approach to throwing loot at people because of fairness, equality or any other feel-good reason to do so. Game is structured around fundamental principles like free markets and doing what you want. Suggesting that someone having more gold than someone else creates a problem shows people don’t understand these fundamental principles.

Obtena.7952:

Essence Snow.3194:

Well Anet brought it up in the beginning of the game, so I’m not really sure what you’re saying that says about them.

I’m not sure what you are referring to but the way they have implemented the game is the reality here and it’s indicative enough to know they aren’t going to take a socialist approach to throwing loot at people because of fairness, equality or any other feel-good reason to do so. Game is structured around fundamental principles like free markets and doing what you want. Suggesting that someone having more gold than someone else creates a problem shows people don’t understand these fundamental principles.

In the beginning of the game JS and Anet posted a bunch of informative graphs and statistics. Among those was a bit on the economic equality in the game vs that of the US economy.

Suggesting that economic disparity might create issues shows a regard for history. Since historic happenings are our best predictors of future occurrences, to do the fore mentioned not only shows rationale but an underlying understanding of the principle itself.

You’re reading into this FAR too much. They posted an infographic. They weren’t trying to suggest there was anything wrong with their conceptual model for the game by doing so.

They were suggesting that the game was in a much better state than the US economy.

I’m not sure if that’s true or not but … what relevance does that have?

Let me get this straight so I have your story correct: Anet posts an infographic about a year ago, supposedly to claim GW2 is in a better state than the US economy and somehow, that’s an indication they are second guessing their fundamental approach to free markets and playing how you want principles of the game. Therefore, people having different amounts of gold is a problem … OK

Let me ask you a question. What is the main objective of the game?

To make money for it’s owner.

And they accomplish that how?

Selling gems to players.

That and box sales…anyways

What prompts those sales? What do people expect to get from buying these?

People either exchange those gems for gold or stuff in the gemstore.

Sry I meant for what purpose do they do it?

What is the purpose of people buying gems? To get gold or buy stuff in the gemstore. Perhaps your asking the purpose of people wanting stuff in the gemstore? it appeals to them? Could be lots of reasons there.

The end result?…quick edit…

So fun yeah…the point of the game is to generate sales (both box and gem) via creating fun for the most amount of people?

Essence Snow.3194:

The end result?…quick edit…

So fun yeah…the point of the game is to generate sales (both box and gem) via creating fun for the most amount of people?

Just because people have fun playing the game doesnt mean they buy gems.

I’m not sure what the correlation of “people having fun” to “people that buy gems” is. People buying gems is more likely due to feeling that they have a need for something; gold or gemstore item whether they are having fun or not. Having fun doesn’t necessarily result in a need for gold or gemstore items.

Wanze.8410:

Essence Snow.3194:

The end result?…quick edit…

So fun yeah…the point of the game is to generate sales (both box and gem) via creating fun for the most amount of people?

Just because people have fun playing the game doesnt mean they buy gems.

Way to go on making an irrelevant comment since it has nothing to do with the one quoted.

Obtena.7952:

I’m not sure what the correlation of “people having fun” to “people that buy gems” is. People buying gems is more likely due to feeling that they have a need for something; gold or gemstore item whether they are having fun or not. Having fun doesn’t necessarily result in a need for gold or gemstore items.

I wouldn’t say that fun is a requirement, but I would hope that fun is an underlying intent to which Anet are shooting for.

…edit…gtg for while..to be cont…..

No doubt Anet want people to have fun but the driving factors for ‘fun’ and ‘buying gems’ aren’t the same thing.

Essence Snow.3194:

Wanze.8410:

Essence Snow.3194:

The end result?…quick edit…

So fun yeah…the point of the game is to generate sales (both box and gem) via creating fun for the most amount of people?

Just because people have fun playing the game doesnt mean they buy gems.

Way to go on making an irrelevant comment since it has nothing to do with the one quoted.

You started this irrelevant questionaire that lead nowhere. In your next comment you basically agreed with me. What i mean is, i had great fun playing this game since headstart but i never bought a single gem with money.

Maybe it’s time to return to the purpose of the post. I essentially agree with some of the predictions, but I don’t think this will be bad for the game. On the contrary, I think the overall impact on the overall Community will be extremely positive.

The OP wrote:

I fear that the new Item Collections achievements will disrupt the markets of high-demand-low-supply skin sets (e.g. the spirit weapon skins)

I’m sure that’s both true and expected/intended by ANet. I see no issue with that, per se.

and will result in massive price increases across the board

I’m sure that some prices will spike massively, but it won’t be across the board. More importantly, it won’t last forever. Not everyone is willing to chase chieves by investing tons of time or money. Further, in some cases, this will (as intended) call attention to scarce items that seem underpriced. I love getting special items as drops and I’m too often disappointed that they don’t seem to be valued.

that will upset and frustrate a large portion of the community.

It will certainly frustrate some people, as can be seen in this post. But I doubt any of us have any metrics that would allow us to predict how many. And again, not everyone is interested in achievement points enough to get them to overspend to satisfy that particular personality behavior sometimes labeled as OCD by us laypeople.

But I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to protest against this part of the Feature Patch. People have been long asking for achievements of this sort; I’m sure that group is every bit as numerous as those worried about costs. Had this feature been in the game from the start, as some have argued, then prices would already be high for whatever these items are and we wouldn’t be discussing it as a market disruption.

In fact, I suspect that ANet thinks there are too many items in the game that fail to get their proper attention. Those that are unbound are priced too low for their scarcity and ANet would like to see them re-enter the economy as valued items.

Thus, I’m sure that the OP has correctly predicted some of the impact of the change, but I disagree strongly with their conclusions. I think the vast majority of people affected by the Collections update will be pleased and those disappointed (as there is with any change) will be fewer in number.

You’re right, it’s not new, it’s stupid. I’m just impressed someone has the audacity to actually bring it up. I do have to admit, it is interesting to see how far some of these socialist ideals go when discussing theoreticals in a MMO. I’m waiting for the thread that goes like this:

“Anet, please make it so whatever I want is free because it’s the only way to guarantee ‘equality’ for every player. Also, make it so I can just click to get my achievements done; it’s not politically correct to make me feel bad because someone has higher achievement score than I do. Also, give me an I WIN button for PVP so I can prevent losing; it’s not fair.”

Any reasonable proposal, if pushed to the extremes, becomes ridiculous. That does not, however, lend any support to the claim that the original proposal was ridiculous.

Just because people have fun playing the game doesnt mean they buy gems.

Yes, but they won’t buy gems at all if they aren’t having fun, they’ll just move on to something else. You have to provide gem store items that people who are having fun will want to buy, but even more importantly you want them to be having fun, to keep them playing and to built up positive customer interest in the game and in supporting it. It is better to generate customers that want to support your game than it is to create “must buy” products that might drive players away.

People buying gems is more likely due to feeling that they have a need for something; gold or gemstore item whether they are having fun or not. Having fun doesn’t necessarily result in a need for gold or gemstore items.

It’s quite the opposite. If you add things to the store that people feel compelled to buy, but they aren’t enjoying the game, then they will be more likely to quit (“P2W bullkitten!”). On the other hand, if you put things in the store that are more “interesting” than “necessary,” but the players are fully engaged in the game, enjoying their experience, then they will actually seek out reasons to buy gems, just to support the game they are enjoying.

Romek.4201:

Morsus.5106:

Romek.4201:

this spiritweapons or all items you posted are no problem

they are easy crafted and only problem material for this and ever was are SKILLPOINTZ

Skill points are a problem? I had almost 550 on my main a few days ago, and then I bought a bloodstone shard.

yes they are – atleast for people who know how to make gold with skillpoints

So the problem isn’t the skillpoints, it’s just that you spend it too quickly?

Morsus.5106:

Romek.4201:

Morsus.5106:

Romek.4201:

this spiritweapons or all items you posted are no problem

they are easy crafted and only problem material for this and ever was are SKILLPOINTZ

Skill points are a problem? I had almost 550 on my main a few days ago, and then I bought a bloodstone shard.

yes they are – atleast for people who know how to make gold with skillpoints

So the problem isn’t the skillpoints, it’s just that you spend it too quickly?

It actually isnt a problem. Those that know how to spend their skillpoints efficiently, just spend 200 SP and buy a weapon from the 500g profit they make off it.

Wanze.8410:

Morsus.5106:

Romek.4201:

Morsus.5106:

Romek.4201:

this spiritweapons or all items you posted are no problem

they are easy crafted and only problem material for this and ever was are SKILLPOINTZ

Skill points are a problem? I had almost 550 on my main a few days ago, and then I bought a bloodstone shard.

yes they are – atleast for people who know how to make gold with skillpoints

So the problem isn’t the skillpoints, it’s just that you spend it too quickly?

It actually isnt a problem. Those that know how to spend their skillpoints efficiently, just spend 200 SP and buy a weapon from the 500g profit they make off it.

2.5 gold per skillpoint? Dang, time I learned how to do that.

Well, it seems my first prediction was pretty spot on. Now we´ll have to wait and see what happens when patch actually hits.
I guess if you don´t want to be patient, but go for some achievements right away, now is the time buy stuff asap.

Skoigoth.9238:

Well, it seems my first prediction was pretty spot on. Now we´ll have to wait and see what happens when patch actually hits.
I guess if you don´t want to be patient, but go for some achievements right away, now is the time buy stuff asap.

How so?

Your first prediction was about the spirit weapons, which havent really moved much in price and charged lodestones didnt gain more than 5-10%.

I guess the items that spiked the most were the exotic trinkets and it remains to be seen how farmable they are. Even though the prices for those are ridiculous right now, i think this was a good move to give lucky drops a bit more value. Until now, these trinkets were available for cheap and basically depressed the crafting market. This isnt the case anymore.

Wanze.8410:

How so?

Your first prediction was about the spirit weapons, which havent really moved much in price and charged lodestones didnt gain more than 5-10%.

What I meant by ´first prediction´ was the involvement of special weapon sets such as spirit weapons (we didn´t know that for sure up until the preview footage came out).
About the prices, I didn´t expect them to change drastically pre-patch. I´d say we will see how substantial the impact in fact is soonest in a few days/about a week from now on.

Skoigoth.9238:

Wanze.8410:

How so?

Your first prediction was about the spirit weapons, which havent really moved much in price and charged lodestones didnt gain more than 5-10%.

What I meant by ´first prediction´ was the involvement of special weapon sets such as spirit weapons (we didn´t know that for sure up until the preview footage came out).
About the prices, I didn´t expect them to change drastically pre-patch. I´d say we will see how substantial the impact in fact is soonest in a few days/about a week from now on.

Its gonna be a good gold and material/item sink for sure.