Guild Wars 2

6-8c per node is not a P2W.

6 to 8 copper or 6 to 8 gold, it makes no difference. As a company, you don’t start with gold, of course. You build that kitten from the ground up.

Buttercup.5871:

6 to 8 copper or 6 to 8 gold, it makes no difference. As a company, you don’t start with gold, of course. You build that kitten from the ground up.

That’s a pretty steep slippery slope you’ve got there… especially since you’ve only got a single data point.

The problem with this slippery slope is that if you buy the pick, you buy into the idea itself. It will become the “new normal”. And you can’t complain later when they add something more valuable to a new harvesting tool.

So slippery slope, yes, but not for the reason you picked the analogy.

Buttercup.5871:

The problem with this slippery slope is that if you buy the pick, you buy into the idea itself. It will become the “new normal”. And you can’t complain later when they add something more valuable to a new harvesting tool.

So slippery slope, yes, but not for the reason you picked the analogy.

Suggesting something is bad because you believe it will lead to something that is actually bad in the future is only a valid argument once you have some kind of evidence that suggests the trend is real and not an unfounded opinion.

Nothing wrong with warning ArenaNet that you’ll be watching them closely, but the fact is that this is a single incident that has no real meaning yet, so we cannot logically extrapolate a doomsday scenario from it.

And yes, I always reserve the right to complain later.

Zaxares.5419:

I’m afraid that’s where you’re wrong, Darc. Yes, they were initially sold for 800 gems back during Flame & Frost, Secret of Southsun and the Aetherblade Pirates release. People who bought them during their initial releases paid 800 gems.

I’m not wrong, the Molten Pick never sold for 1000 gems. The Bone Pick did when the upgrade was announced, but not the Molten Pick.

Just a little thought.

To those who feel “well, you got it before the bonus so you shouldnt get it upraded”, i’d just like to remind you that it seemed they had no problem taking something before and changing it.
Celestial gear had magicfind, then it didnt. Berserker gear has critdamage and soon it wont.
These changes happend to the new items, and retroactively also to the existing items because the standard for these items has/will be changed. And everything with the same functionality was brought in line.

Seeing as these changes are passed through just fine. Whats wrong with people asking for similar treatment, and have their old items amended to the new standard in this case aswell?

I personally like the idea of a buyable upgrade for existing infinite gathering tools as a way to promote people to go ahead and buy now without worrying they will price themselves out of better tool features in the future. This would be a win for Anet’s bottom line too, because buying the original tool at full price, plus the upgrade for an additional fee, would generate more revenue than the customer waiting and buying just the better tool. This could be accomplished in the same way as the tool trades from soulbound to accountbound, but with an additional gem fee (for something like the chance at sprockets, 100 gems seems appropriate, especially if every tool will be seeing upgrades, and probably multiple of them).

Lord Kuru.3685:

At best, this is a bad business decision. Many people will now wait on buying tools, hoping that the next one will have an even better pay-to-win bonus.

Well I spent my last gems on this thing, and simply won’t be buying anymore gems in the future until we have some official statement that this vertical progression trend in the cash shop is over.

DarcShriek.5829:

Zaxares.5419:

I’m afraid that’s where you’re wrong, Darc. Yes, they were initially sold for 800 gems back during Flame & Frost, Secret of Southsun and the Aetherblade Pirates release. People who bought them during their initial releases paid 800 gems.

I’m not wrong, the Molten Pick never sold for 1000 gems. The Bone Pick did when the upgrade was announced, but not the Molten Pick.

I did some more research about it, and yes, you’re right. The Molten Pick has only come back twice since it was first released; once during the anniversary sale (during which it was still only 800 gems), and once during the 2014 New Year’s sale (when it was bundled with the Aetherblade axe and Consortium sickle for 2850 gems).

So yes, those who bought the Molten Pick before the change to Account Bound only ever paid 800 gems. I was wrong about that.

Nevertheless, I still stand by my stance that the new baseline price for the Pick is 1000 gems, as evidenced by the price during the New Year’s sale.

It is because the older picks were originally character bound but now are soul bound. That was the reason behind the 200 gem increase in price. Just that the older tools were grandfathered in and they would refund additional tools if you wanted to.

The 200 gem increase isn’t for the sprocket generating ability.

Oh, I know that, Behellagh. The greater context of the argument was over somebody’s suggestion that ANet should allow players to “upgrade” their Molten/Bone picks for 200 gems to also get the bonus Sprockets, but that would effectively mean they paid 1200 gems compared to the 1000 for the Watchwork Pick.

As an owner of 2 molten picks i disagree.

P2W is a bad model….
Something should be done about the sprocket tool, and old tools should not be upgraded to be P2W.

And earning a tiny amount of extra coin over the amount the mats gathered are worth isn’t P2W. But it’s obvious we have a difference of opinion here.

jazzllanna.1278:

drkn.3429:

Manuhell.2759:

Well, now you know how people that bought the old digital deluxe upgrade felt when they added heroic edition items to new purchases of the digital deluxe upgrade.

Except i received the heroic stuff upon that update, myself being a digital deluxe pre-purchaser. A chest with shiny set of profane armour along with some boosters and bags arrived to me via in-game mail.

Really? I was a digital deluxe pre-purchaser also and did not get this mail. Did everyone get this.. because I guess I should open a ticket.

I never saw such a chest.

Nor did I expect one. While I could see that someone who had just purchased the game being upset once this was added, I had had the game for a while. I’m used to the concept of adding value to the game to encourage new sales.

City of Heroes I bought every box they released because I (for one) found they all added something worthwhile. It also helped that as a sub game, each box included a month.

Behellagh.1468:

And earning a tiny amount of extra coin over the amount the mats gathered are worth isn’t P2W. But it’s obvious we have a difference of opinion here.

Yes it is. The only real reason it’s a very sketchy subject is you can get these items with in game gold too.

Behellagh.1468:

And earning a tiny amount of extra coin over the amount the mats gathered are worth isn’t P2W. But it’s obvious we have a difference of opinion here.

It very much is pay2win.

Pay2win sounds more dramatic then it actually is. It sounds like, if you pay money you get to freely dominate anyone who doesnt. Its far less black and white then that.

Pay2win is in essence whenever you get to pay to have a leg up on anyone who doesnt pay.
In this case its a very mild pay2win, no one is argueing that the pick in itself is a massively broken issue. The issue however truely is that this point in time the best possible pickaxe is only available from the gemstore.

As soon as best <anything> is only available from a cashshop, thats essentially a pay2win.
And up untill this point theyve ran a very fine line, and some would argue the permanent harvesting toolts themselves were already better and thus a pay2win.

But the difference is, these tools were not better at doing what they did, gather. The clockwork mining pick however clearly is.
And for most of us that are angry about this its not the pick itself but the step that this signifies. That arenanet is thinking they can start selling the best of something for cash.
Now its a silly pickaxe that sometimes gathers an extra, currently low price, ingredient. Next up, maybe an infusion that gives a bit more AR or stats?

This is a slippery slope, and as soon as they get away with one thing they will try and take it a step further. And thats not doomsaying, thats a guarentee. A lot of us have seen this happen before, and we want to fight it before it gets to that point.

For me personally the bussinesmodel has already dipped below what i find acceptable a while ago and i havent bought gems since.

Terrahero.9358:

Just a little thought.

To those who feel “well, you got it before the bonus so you shouldnt get it upraded”, i’d just like to remind you that it seemed they had no problem taking something before and changing it.
Celestial gear had magicfind, then it didnt. Berserker gear has critdamage and soon it wont.
These changes happend to the new items, and retroactively also to the existing items because the standard for these items has/will be changed. And everything with the same functionality was brought in line.

Seeing as these changes are passed through just fine. Whats wrong with people asking for similar treatment, and have their old items amended to the new standard in this case aswell?

The whole analogy is wrong, though. Celestials and items with crit damage are getting changed altogether (in celestials’ case to remove a stat, in crit damage cases’ to change said stat into another).
The old infinite picks aren’t getting changed at all, they just introduced a new one with a new feature.
Also, if we were to talk about previous treatments about adding features, we should talk about the digital deluxe upgrade.
And people didn’t get the new items for that (and neither a cheap upgrade to the new one).

Anet loves vertical progression. So I’m going to hold out for the pick that gives 30% chance of dragonite per use — you know it’s coming!

… and it will probably cost more than 1000 gems so a pick that has a 30% chance to drop dragonite ore isn’t a problem.

Really the point is … even if it is P2Win, so what? Let’s have an honest conversation here. How long do you think armor skins and Quaggan backpacks are going to fund the game? I don’t give ‘nice looks’ very much marketshare before players are simply bored with those things … more beneficial items NEED to start coming online for players willing to pay for them … as it should be if you all want the game to continue to have no monthly fee.

the watchwork one costed more, u are not entitled to bonuses….not all the items have to be created equal….

The gathering pick before the watchwork one was 1000 gems as well and didn’t give you anything extra.