Guild Wars 2

Behellagh.1468:

perche.3215:

bad is make a offer of 25000 items at 89c, when the previous offer is 81c and force to people to buy at 90+, same thing happen with iron , ore, iron ore etc.

pure manipulation.

He’s offering to BUY 25,000 @ 89c. Sellers win. Flippers lose. That’s what I call a “Win – Win”. Plus it’s costing him (assuming one person) 200+g to do something like that.

You are forgetting that “playing the market” is a form of PvP with profit as the way to keep score. I dare say most players buy immediately and sell immediately or at worse over/under cut by a few coppers for one of something and they don’t even notice things like this.

How do you not understand what happened there? He bought a ton at 81 then made a ton of tiny buy orders up to 89 until other people stacked buy orders with his. It’s countless other people who made 25000 buy orders at 89. That’s flippers win, buyers lose.

So you are saying he bought at 81, then selling the stuff at 89/90? With the TP fees he would be going -4c profit on that transaction (using “bad things” you can get close to 0 but never positive).

Not sure how you were thinking here… But lets assume he turns 1c profit on this and also assume its ONE person with 25000 items (which is not possible or up there with the universe exploding) then he would turn an impressive 2.5g profit…

If you are looking at market manipulator in this volume then you are looking at people with some big pockets and the risk/reward/effort is def. not worth it with anything that costs less than a few silvers.

aeneq.1760:

So you are saying he bought at 81, then selling the stuff at 89/90? With the TP fees he would be going -4c profit on that transaction (using “bad things” you can get close to 0 but never positive).

Not sure how you were thinking here… But lets assume he turns 1c profit on this and also assume its ONE person with 25000 items (which is not possible or up there with the universe exploding) then he would turn an impressive 2.5g profit…

If you are looking at market manipulator in this volume then you are looking at people with some big pockets and the risk/reward/effort is def. not worth it with anything that costs less than a few silvers.

It’s still what the guy did. You can argue logic all you like but the fact is the market was manipulated and the buyers will always be the loser in these situations.

randomfightfan.4091:

aeneq.1760:

So you are saying he bought at 81, then selling the stuff at 89/90? With the TP fees he would be going -4c profit on that transaction (using “bad things” you can get close to 0 but never positive).

It’s still what the guy did. You can argue logic all you like but the fact is the market was manipulated and the buyers will always be the loser in these situations.

So he manipulated the market to take a loss. Well alrighty then.

And how do you deduce this? From a single screenshot with no information in it other than a demand/price list in it that has no specific bidder information?

I see the screenshot as something completely different;

• The item was undervalued/New need was discovered
• Subsequent buy orders were placed were someone needed/was willing to pay more than the current bid
• Price stabilized around 89

I see this as a fully functional open market, price manipulation only works if theres a profit margin which there isnt in this case and thus can be claimed as evidence against a manipulation (in this specific case).

Wheres the evidence that this specific case is market manipulation? You claim facts and evidence and I (not alone) has yet to see either.

To argue your point about market manipulation I know of only one strategy (other than owning the market which require a low supply market and long term commitment, this is risky).

• You buy an item I at a low buy price and build a supply
• You submit buy orders to increase the value to a point where it stabilizes
• You wait until the sell price adjusts
• You sell the mats you bought

This strategy has several problems, takes a long time to execute, requires the item to be undervalued to start with (undervalued means the market is really willing to pay more).

Doing all this for copper profits are just not worth the time/effort for anyone who really plays the TP (unless this is automated but thats another matter). And further I dont see this as market manipulation, its an adjustment of price to fit demand with someone smart enough to see/predict the profit.

PS: When thinking about it the only real Market Manipulation I see is people who submit insane buy orders so the item shows up on trading lists such as gw2spidy as hot, thereby “cheating” people following these lists.

John Smith.4610:

We are always adding new items to the gemstore and plan to do so. I have my own plans for the goldsellers, they just don’t know I’m coming for them yet.

You guys crank out the cool stuff and I’ll buy it.
-For the record…the gold spam in GW2 is so sparse compared to other MMOS, I hope you guys can eventually snuff it out entirely- or close to it!

randomfightfan.4091:

Behellagh.1468:

perche.3215:

bad is make a offer of 25000 items at 89c, when the previous offer is 81c and force to people to buy at 90+, same thing happen with iron , ore, iron ore etc.

pure manipulation.

He’s offering to BUY 25,000 @ 89c. Sellers win. Flippers lose. That’s what I call a “Win – Win”. Plus it’s costing him (assuming one person) 200+g to do something like that.

You are forgetting that “playing the market” is a form of PvP with profit as the way to keep score. I dare say most players buy immediately and sell immediately or at worse over/under cut by a few coppers for one of something and they don’t even notice things like this.

How do you not understand what happened there? He bought a ton at 81 then made a ton of tiny buy orders up to 89 until other people stacked buy orders with his. It’s countless other people who made 25000 buy orders at 89. That’s flippers win, buyers lose.

The buyer may be paying a bit more but he is still saving money putting in orders rather than paying sellers. Plus as I said sellers who want to sell now are better off. And worse case the player who is now been overcut can pull his order at no cost to reconsider and try again.

Unless of course you were trying to flip rather than buy personal items or stacks of crafting material you were planning to use and the profit margin you were looking for is now non-existent. Then I can understand you being upset.

Behellagh.1468:

randomfightfan.4091:

Behellagh.1468:

perche.3215:

bad is make a offer of 25000 items at 89c, when the previous offer is 81c and force to people to buy at 90+, same thing happen with iron , ore, iron ore etc.

pure manipulation.

He’s offering to BUY 25,000 @ 89c. Sellers win. Flippers lose. That’s what I call a “Win – Win”. Plus it’s costing him (assuming one person) 200+g to do something like that.

You are forgetting that “playing the market” is a form of PvP with profit as the way to keep score. I dare say most players buy immediately and sell immediately or at worse over/under cut by a few coppers for one of something and they don’t even notice things like this.

How do you not understand what happened there? He bought a ton at 81 then made a ton of tiny buy orders up to 89 until other people stacked buy orders with his. It’s countless other people who made 25000 buy orders at 89. That’s flippers win, buyers lose.

The buyer may be paying a bit more but he is still saving money putting in orders rather than paying sellers. Plus as I said sellers who want to sell now are better off. And worse case the player who is now been overcut can pull his order at no cost to reconsider and try again.

Unless of course you were trying to flip rather than buy personal items or stacks of crafting material you were planning to use and the profit margin you were looking for is now non-existent. Then I can understand you being upset.

If I were trying to flip said items (which I’m not, btw, wasn’t even me who posted the screen) why would I be mad that someone else did all the hard work of increasing the market price? All that’d do is allow me to sell the crap I had collecting dust in my bank tabs without having to go through the added potential cost of manipulating the market.

In my opinion many people are misunderstanding one very simple thing about finances.

If you have gold and don’t spend it you will have more gold in total once you earn more.

If you have a large enough amount of gold and their is a limited supply of X item for sale you can buy it and jack up the price. The trick then is to have saved enough gold to buy any of that item that is posted cheaper than yours and flip it to your price. This will leave you controlling an item which people may need, meaning in theory you can gain greater profit.

The reason economist players can buy legendaries and flip them for more gold is simply because they have more gold than you, and as long as they do they can jack up prices.

To a certain degree this isn’t always bad (remember when black dye went for over150g?) because less valuable item prices often drop, but as a consequence limited items are flipped to higher prices.

Eventually it will reach a point that the people who have lots of gold will be flipping items all the time without you noticing, and Some people play MMO’s just for the economy.

The only way to remedy this is to increase the variety and rate of limited drops, Which will encourage not the loss of wealth to those already set for gold, but rather increase the amount of gold (assuming the rare drops are sold) in the hands of someone who is likely to spend it on items that the non-economist type players are selling.

Lol everyone get that?

perche.3215:

manipulation market , naaaa

That guy isn’t manipulating the market. He’s buying in bulk in order to process it into mithril and orichalcum and sell for a net profit. I made much of my early funds that way

This is half the problem with “you people” – you look at activity on the marketplace and say “HERMAGERDMANIPULATION!” without really understanding what you are looking at.

randomfightfan.4091:

You can argue logic all you like but the fact is the market was manipulated and the buyers will always be the loser in these situations.

I’m a harvester, not a buyer. Buyers line their pockets with CoF p1 and expect me to do their work for them for peanuts out on the landscape. I’m loving the skyrocketing mats prices, thank you very much. I feel like I should do a victory dance around my desk every time I see the real, out on the landscape evidence of bot-harvesters being obliterated en mass.

Zero.5307:

In my opinion many people are misunderstanding one very simple thing about finances.

If you have gold and don’t spend it you will have more gold in total once you earn more.

If you have a large enough amount of gold and their is a limited supply of X item for sale you can buy it and jack up the price. The trick then is to have saved enough gold to buy any of that item that is posted cheaper than yours and flip it to your price. This will leave you controlling an item which people may need, meaning in theory you can gain greater profit.

The reason economist players can buy legendaries and flip them for more gold is simply because they have more gold than you, and as long as they do they can jack up prices.

To a certain degree this isn’t always bad (remember when black dye went for over150g?) because less valuable item prices often drop, but as a consequence limited items are flipped to higher prices.

Eventually it will reach a point that the people who have lots of gold will be flipping items all the time without you noticing, and Some people play MMO’s just for the economy.

The only way to remedy this is to increase the variety and rate of limited drops, Which will encourage not the loss of wealth to those already set for gold, but rather increase the amount of gold (assuming the rare drops are sold) in the hands of someone who is likely to spend it on items that the non-economist type players are selling.

Lol everyone get that?

And what you are not seeing that more people with more gold will simply keep the price going up.

Flipping only works if you have buyers for what you are flipping, otherwise you are sitting on a pile of stuff that few if anyone can afford to buy. What flippers do is find the price that’s reflected by “real” demand. Players who are actually buying and not simply putting in an order at a price which that item was never sold that cheaply. I’ll pay 10g for a precursor. That isn’t real demand, just like someone selling copper ore for 1g each isn’t real supply. Yes it’s for sale but nobody in their right mind will ever pay that much so it’s not even worth counting as supply.

Flippers help find the right price where there is a balance between new supply entering the market is finding buyers who can afford to purchase it. A balance between true supply and true demand that maximizes the price. Eco 101.

If more players get more gold the price will just rise until that balance point is reached again. And across the entire market, that’s what is called inflation.