Guild Wars 2

TooBz.3065:

I don’t disagree with you. Having the TP allows for the drop rate of stuff to be reduced. While the goal may have been to allow you to do what you like, trade it for gold, and buy what you want, in reality, buying something just isn’t the same as finding it.

Lord Kuru.3685:

When the solution to every “where to I get…” question is “Champ farm gold and buy it off the TP,” the game has moved from being a game to being a real-life simulator.

While this thread has meandered a long way from the OP, I just want to say that I really agree with both these posts. The game HAS gotten too reliant on the TP. I don’t really care how it impacts things on the high end market, and I don’t care about how free the market is or whatever. But just playing through the game, it is very difficult to keep a character effective without relying on the TP to get gear. Because there is just no way to guarantee that you will get the gear you need before you outlevel what you have.

Example: I was leveling a guardian alt yesterday. She is currently level 42. I wanted to switch from whatever weapon she was wielding back to sword. Look in my bag, the most recent sword I have is a level 33 blue. Which is pretty much crap when I’m downleveled in Kessex Hills doing LS content. What’s the solution? Go to the TP and buy a new sword. Which is fine, and effective and convenient. But it isn’t fun or exciting. I already spend plenty of time grinding for cash to pay for necessities—that’s called real life.

There need to be more ways to get level and class appropriate rewards as you play through the game. In most MMOs, this is handled through quest rewards. The rewards are tailored to your class, so you always have a source of new gear that will keep you up to date, even if your drops suck. Since GW2 doesn’t have quests, you are stuck relying on drops, or just saving the gold to buy off the TP. Which is the much more common solution, but about as exciting as buying groceries.

So I do think there is too much reliance on the TP, not because it puts anyone at a disadvantage, but because it makes the game less fun.

There’s only like 1000 mmorpg out there. I think in most of them, the TP plays a big roll.

So in other games, you need to rely on the TP also.

But in GW2, the difference is it’s more profitable to play the TP than the other aspect of the game. There is only 1000 other mmorpg out there, I would say it is one of the few similar to Diablo(before they cancel the auction house), you are much better sitting infront of the TP and neglecting the other part of the game if you want to be rich.

No matter what a developer says, the Black Lion Trading post will forever and always be broken. And I don’t say this because of how it works or how you make money out of it, I say it because of the amount of time it takes to get gold. Literally 100% broken.

laokoko.7403:

There’s only like 1000 mmorpg out there. I think in most of them, the TP plays a big roll.

So in other games, you need to rely on the TP also.

But in GW2, the difference is it’s more profitable to play the TP than the other aspect of the game. There is only 1000 other mmorpg out there, I would say it is one of the few similar to Diablo(before they cancel the auction house), you are much better sitting infront of the TP and neglecting the other part of the game if you want to be rich.

Yeah, I was going to make this point as well: a free market system is great in many aspects, but it’s just not fun for most players. There’s definitely something lost when you can’t count on something shiny dropping — it’s the same mistake that Diablo 3 made, and it’s what essentially killed their game.

I’m not calling for the removal of the TP, hardly, but instead suggesting that Arenanet increases the number of account-bound shiny drops. Finding a named exotic weapons is one of the most exciting, universal themes in RPGs, it’s a shame that that’s missing in Guild Wars.

Starfall.6813:

While this thread has meandered a long way from the OP, I just want to say that I really agree with both these posts. The game HAS gotten too reliant on the TP. I don’t really care how it impacts things on the high end market, and I don’t care about how free the market is or whatever. But just playing through the game, it is very difficult to keep a character effective without relying on the TP to get gear. Because there is just no way to guarantee that you will get the gear you need before you outlevel what you have.

That isn’t my experience at all – for my first character between crafting, karma vendors, and drops I bought very little gear (mostly weapons) from the TP until I was close to level 80 and wanted to step up my game. There’s nothing wrong with having to buy some gear from the TP because you want something particular for your build. Lower level gear is ridiculously affordable. I bought a lot of gear for my alts however because it was cheaper and more convenient than the other ways I could have outfitted them.

If you’ve set yourself a challenge to “iron man” the game (which I have done before just to keep things interesting) that’s fine, but balancing the game so that there is little incentive for players to trade because it’s easy for everyone to be self sufficient will make the game unfun for a lot of folks.

There are a lot of features in this game that make it possible to not use the TP. One character can have every crafting skill. You can get nice gear with karma, laurels, and dungeon tokens. I bought some of my gear from the cultural and Order vendors for the skins, but the stats on them aren’t bad for the level. You can get some really cool looking things through Mystic Forge crafting, and some of them are pretty easy to make. The only reason you’re forced to go to the TP is for rare items, items you need for a specific build, or crafting materials you don’t want to spend the time harvesting.

laokoko.7403:

But in GW2, the difference is it’s more profitable to play the TP than the other aspect of the game. There is only 1000 other mmorpg out there, I would say it is one of the few similar to Diablo(before they cancel the auction house), you are much better sitting infront of the TP and neglecting the other part of the game if you want to be rich.

I still don’t understand why that’s a problem. As long as you don’t need to be rich to play the game, who cares? If you don’t have fun messing with the TP, play the parts of the game that are fun, and forget about being virtually rich.

I do think there could be a lot more diverse and “cool” items for players to earn by playing instead of buy with gold.

Pandemoniac.4739:

laokoko.7403:

But in GW2, the difference is it’s more profitable to play the TP than the other aspect of the game. There is only 1000 other mmorpg out there, I would say it is one of the few similar to Diablo(before they cancel the auction house), you are much better sitting infront of the TP and neglecting the other part of the game if you want to be rich.

I still don’t understand why that’s a problem. As long as you don’t need to be rich to play the game, who cares? If you don’t have fun messing with the TP, play the parts of the game that are fun, and forget about being virtually rich.

I do think there could be a lot more diverse and “cool” items for players to earn by playing instead of buy with gold.

I think it’s the part where if I want say a legendary weapon or ascended armor, I would be better of playing the TP than the actual game.

In other game if you want a shiny weapon you actual go out and do dungeon and pvp.

That being said, you still need a starting money if you want to play the TP in GW2.

I don’t even play the game any more. I probably login 1 hour a month and I make more money than some people who play a couple hours a day everyday.

Some people just scream about inflation and increased price of luxury goods (I assume they mostly mean precursors with this) and as game designer and virtual economist of another MMO I just want to comment on this and explain briefly how it works.

If we take precursors for example. The drop rates of these items are intentionally very low, as they are a long term goal.

I’m going to simplify things a lot to make this example clear, so don’t go nitpick, I know there are some flaws in this example.

Anyway, say precursors are so rare, that on average, 10% of the players get a precursor drop through normal gameplay every year. You can be the lucky 10%, but odds are of course much bigger that you’re one of the 90% of the people that don’t get any.

Some of the people that are lucky rather have the money and put their precursor up for sale. However, since it is such a rare item, there is limited supply and very large demand from amongst the 90% that have none, but might want one.

Thus, since supply is low and demand is high, prices start to increase. And increase they will.

However, the average player notices that halfway through the year, he has learned a lot from playing the game effectively, and is now making much more money than before. But he also notices that the price for the precursor he wants goes up, continuously pushing it out of his reach! No matter how good joe average plays, the precursor remains unaffordable by him. So he goes to the forums and screams NOT FAIR!!! INFLATION!!!

But let me tell you the cold hard reality. The reality in this example is, that this year, there are only enough precursors in circulation for 10% of the players. So 90% WILL NOT GET ANY THIS YEAR, no matter how hard they try. Only the richest 10% of the people will be able to purchase them off the trading post. Throughout the year, the average income of players likely went up, as players learned to play more effectively and earn more gold per hour. But this increase in income is global. So if you’re joe average, it will not be enough. To have enough gold for the precursor, you need to be in the top 10%. So either you have to farm 80 hours per week or you need to adopt clever ways of making gold. Playing the game the way that 90% of the people do, is simply not good enough.

Of course, the situation is likely even more dire. As in the real world, the top 1% of the players likely make a thousand times more gold per hour than the average player. Since there is no limit on the amount of legendary weapons a single player can have, they’ll likely buy more than one precursor. So you see some players with 5 legendary items and others still having none. And the chance for you getting a precursor this year is not 10%, but maybe 5%.

So more come screaming to the forums, NOT FAIR!!!

Just tell me how this example is not fair. Why would you be entitled to an item that drops for 10% of the players per year, if you play mediocre? It is not like you don’t have a chance at getting the item yourself at all, you still have 10% base chance from luck, of course this is scaled by the amount of time that you play the game as well, but still you always have a chance. And if you’re not lucky, you just have to play more or better. Who deserves the precursor more, a guy playing 80 hours per week or someone that casually plays an hour per day?

Of course people will now point out that players flipping the trading post make the most gold of them all. This may be true to an extent, but you can still earn plenty of gold, enough for a precursor, if you play smart.

For example, I don’t play the TP that much, as I do enough spreadsheets in real life already. However, I can easily get 15-20g per hour from normal gameplay. So what do I do? Just look which mats are high in demand and farm those like crazy. Lately, linen was very costly. So I went killing flame legion and got many stacks of linen and sold them. Whee. Before that, platinum was crazy in value. So I stripmined zones for platinum on multiple characters, picking up many nice logs along the way too.

Nowadays, I just keep the gw2stuff open for world events, ofc with 3 pages so I can also guest on 2 other servers and farm those events as well. Melandru and Grenth temples are very fine event, so many trash mobs and champions, you’re almost guaranteed to get 10 rare mats and an exotic from attending that, on top of bags full of blues/greens/T5 mats.

^ I dont’ think I care about legendary. I dont’ even play enough of this game to care any more.

But there are 1000 mmorpg out there. I am much happy with the economy in other mmorpg than in this game.

Only game with economy I hate more is D3.

That being said I still play this game than other game, because of the B2P model, and more linient cashshop than other P2W games. The real world economy probably have some influence on how the game is designed.

Shakkara.2641:

But let me tell you the cold hard reality. The reality in this example is, that this year, there are only enough precursors in circulation for 10% of the players. So 90% WILL NOT GET ANY THIS YEAR, no matter how hard they try. Only the richest 10% of the people will be able to purchase them off the trading post.

Throughout the year, the average income of players likely went up, as players learned to play more effectively and earn more gold per hour. But this increase in income is global. So if you’re joe average, it will not be enough. To have enough gold for the precursor, you need to be in the top 10%. So either you have to farm 80 hours per week or you need to adopt clever ways of making gold. Playing the game the way that 90% of the people do, is simply not good enough.

I think this makes a good point and snipped it out from the rest of your post for the tl;dr folks

a good point that explains how for one year fractal 79 gave you less reward than cutting a tree.

Economy at its finest….

What about making prestigious items tied to skill rather than gold and tp flipping?

LordByron.8369:

a good point that explains how for one year fractal 79 gave you less reward than cutting a tree.
Economy at its finest….
What about making prestigious items tied to skill rather than gold and tp flipping?

I think there should be more desirable items that are outside of the TP – that’s the real solution in my opinion, not trying to adjust the TP so players can’t get rich.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Shakkara.2641:

But let me tell you the cold hard reality. The reality in this example is, that this year, there are only enough precursors in circulation for 10% of the players. So 90% WILL NOT GET ANY THIS YEAR, no matter how hard they try. Only the richest 10% of the people will be able to purchase them off the trading post.

Throughout the year, the average income of players likely went up, as players learned to play more effectively and earn more gold per hour. But this increase in income is global. So if you’re joe average, it will not be enough. To have enough gold for the precursor, you need to be in the top 10%. So either you have to farm 80 hours per week or you need to adopt clever ways of making gold. Playing the game the way that 90% of the people do, is simply not good enough.

I think this makes a good point and snipped it out from the rest of your post for the tl;dr folks

I fail to see the point. Maybe the problem is the ultra low drop rates.

Or making ways to actually acquire the item such as “precursor hunt”.

People just like to use “free market” as big word.

When the reality is it is purposely design this way so people have “boring grindy content to do”. Since having boring grindy content is better than people quiting because they have no goals. Or they just design it so certain people will buy gems for cash.

Like I said a bunch of times, there is a 1000+ mmorpg out there, all with free market. Their economy isn’t like that in GW2.

Precursor is just designed that way, so people have things to do, because unlike other game, they dont’ release new dungeon and raids and gear tiers every few month.

I don’t even have a problem with precursor. My main problem is there is too much “investing” in this game. It is too easy to speculate on item that will went up in price due to limit event item, and too much emphsize on crafting/legendary (which require enourmous amount of material)

Pandemoniac.4739:

LordByron.8369:

a good point that explains how for one year fractal 79 gave you less reward than cutting a tree.
Economy at its finest….
What about making prestigious items tied to skill rather than gold and tp flipping?

I think there should be more desirable items that are outside of the TP – that’s the real solution in my opinion, not trying to adjust the TP so players can’t get rich.

Skilled player should be rich and not tp barons at the expenses of skilled players…..

LordByron.8369:

Skilled player should be rich and not tp barons at the expenses of skilled players…..

That’s the beauty of tying BiS gear to difficult content. You cannot obtain it by playing the market, you have to get into a skilled team and beat the content. This then causes new problems like “I can’t find a good team” and “I hate gear scores!”

Personally I’m a fan of tying BiS gear to content rather than grind/wealth. However there’s something to be said for accessibility and grind is universally accessible with enough time.

LordByron.8369:

Pandemoniac.4739:

LordByron.8369:

a good point that explains how for one year fractal 79 gave you less reward than cutting a tree.
Economy at its finest….
What about making prestigious items tied to skill rather than gold and tp flipping?

I think there should be more desirable items that are outside of the TP – that’s the real solution in my opinion, not trying to adjust the TP so players can’t get rich.

Skilled player should be rich and not tp barons at the expenses of skilled players…..

People can be skilled in the TP. It’s not the easy “oh that item let’s flip that!” as you think it is.

LordByron.8369:

Pandemoniac.4739:

LordByron.8369:

a good point that explains how for one year fractal 79 gave you less reward than cutting a tree.
Economy at its finest….
What about making prestigious items tied to skill rather than gold and tp flipping?

I think there should be more desirable items that are outside of the TP – that’s the real solution in my opinion, not trying to adjust the TP so players can’t get rich.

Skilled player should be rich and not tp barons at the expenses of skilled players…..

tp barons are skilled at the tp, so why shouldnt they make any gold off players that are not that skilled. I dont see a difference to selling arah paths.

Acquiring Ascended gear is way easier if you are a skilled player in many aspects of the game, same goes for legendaries or bound fractal skins/recipes.

If you give the best items as reward for the hardest challenges in game, you have to make them untradeable in order for less skilled players to have to earn them themselves. All the skillful players will start moaning over time because they got too much of these prestigious items and cant sell them on the tp, see ascended rings from fractals.

LumAnth.5124:

LordByron.8369:

Pandemoniac.4739:

LordByron.8369:

a good point that explains how for one year fractal 79 gave you less reward than cutting a tree.
Economy at its finest….
What about making prestigious items tied to skill rather than gold and tp flipping?

I think there should be more desirable items that are outside of the TP – that’s the real solution in my opinion, not trying to adjust the TP so players can’t get rich.

Skilled player should be rich and not tp barons at the expenses of skilled players…..

People can be skilled in the TP. It’s not the easy “oh that item let’s flip that!” as you think it is.

1) 0 risk huge reward If you lose moneys you are doing some serious mistake and yet you lose a small %. *
2) free pvp with people that doesn t want to play it but is forced (is realistically impossible to play without the tp)
3) its called guild wars 2 and its a mmorpg not a financial game…..consider it like a minigame ruining the main game.

• before you ask me why i don t do it if i find it so easy… i ll say that i tried just to see how hard it was. (small quantities)
  I quit because i find it ethically wrong…..(and did 30-40% clean profit)

LumAnth.5124:

LordByron.8369:

Pandemoniac.4739:

LordByron.8369:

a good point that explains how for one year fractal 79 gave you less reward than cutting a tree.
Economy at its finest….
What about making prestigious items tied to skill rather than gold and tp flipping?

I think there should be more desirable items that are outside of the TP – that’s the real solution in my opinion, not trying to adjust the TP so players can’t get rich.

Skilled player should be rich and not tp barons at the expenses of skilled players…..

People can be skilled in the TP. It’s not the easy “oh that item let’s flip that!” as you think it is.

I think that’s the problem. I thought it’s a game of roll playing, kill monster, doing dungeon, structure pvp, and realm vs realm…

Oh wait, it’s not, it’s a game of spreadsheet and auction house tychoon.

LordByron.8369:

1) 0 risk huge reward If you lose moneys you are doing some serious mistake and yet you lose a small %. *
2) free pvp with people that doesn t want to play it but is forced (is realistically impossible to play without the tp)
3) its called guild wars 2 and its a mmorpg not a financial game…..consider it like a minigame ruining the main game.

• before you ask me why i don t do it if i find it so easy… i ll say that i tried just to see how hard it was. (small quantities)
  I quit because i find it ethically wrong…..(and did 30-40% clean profit)

Must… resist… urge… to apply… Godwin’s Law…

… Whew… Urge repressed. Here’s a less hyperbolic analogy:

You are asking for a non-mandatory part of the game to be modified because you have ethical problems with it. That is a completely totalitarian viewpoint to have and one that is, quite frankly, incredibly insulting.

You feel as though your play style is the master one and is more important than anyone else’s play style and that anyone who disagrees with you should be forced to either play your way or be interred in a camp outside of the game.

The Trading Post is not required. If you wish to play without it you are free to do so. It offers CONVENIENCE in the form of being able to convert gold into items or items into gold. You must PAY for that convenience. If you do not want to pay for the convenience then the appropriate response is to not participate, not to force all participants to play the game your way.

laokoko.7403:

LumAnth.5124:

LordByron.8369:

Pandemoniac.4739:

LordByron.8369:

a good point that explains how for one year fractal 79 gave you less reward than cutting a tree.
Economy at its finest….
What about making prestigious items tied to skill rather than gold and tp flipping?

I think there should be more desirable items that are outside of the TP – that’s the real solution in my opinion, not trying to adjust the TP so players can’t get rich.

Skilled player should be rich and not tp barons at the expenses of skilled players…..

People can be skilled in the TP. It’s not the easy “oh that item let’s flip that!” as you think it is.

I think that’s the problem. I thought it’s a game of roll playing, kill monster, doing dungeon, structure pvp, and realm vs realm…

Oh wait, it’s not, it’s a game of spreadsheet and auction house tychoon.

No one is forcing you. And you don’t need to make tedious spreadsheets, I just do speculation mostly. You can do it too! Just follow these 3 simple steps.

1) Identify an item that’s going to rise.

2) Buy said item from skilled players.

3) Sell them to skilled players at a higher price. (yes! rob their goldz!)

Nobody is forcing us?

If you think that is true you shouldn t even discuss difficult stuff like economy and math….

The grind is the mst complained thing of this game.

Having to grind 20-2000% more due to tp barons isn t exactly good for the game…

Would be interesting to see how the inflation would be without the tp speculators, but almost certainly would be way lower on any item in demand.

The point is the system is unfair and uneffective…..
Another way to combat infllation should be found because this is just lazy and broken.

And no! people are not happy with current TP…if we had a poll considering TP speculation i m quite sure of wich the result would be.

Mostly because by definition if every player started flipping every player would just lose gold…..not so hard to understand

LordByron.8369:

And no! people are not happy with current TP…if we had a poll considering TP speculation i m quite sure of wich the result would be.

Now you’re just speculating.

Well i could base on the discussions at LA and on this forum on general section.

But any discussion is cleverly moved here……the most biased of all sections where it dies because most people won t even considering posting in this section…

Any discussion that is able to stay in general section for few hours have a different outcome compared with when its moved here.

Its like asking in dungeon section if they want rewards to be lowered (not that they are high)….makes no sense.

LA and the general section of the forums are the last places I’d bother with, in any discussion. My comment was more tongue in cheek though :P

I’ve read the beginning of this thread, and a bit of the end. Has a chunk been about speculating? And why is that bad? I bought up some stuff that I plan on reselling in the future personally, but it’s always a gamble.

Yeah yet you all hail to sentences like “less then X% of items are being successfully manipulated on the tp”

When i read that istantly i thougt “hey but less than 1% of tp items are in any demand…i don t think people are interested in lvl 4 White pistols…”

This section is totally biased..shows 0 data to support the great and nice TP and its full of partial information possibly given to derail arguments.

This is an issue that should at least once be discussed in general section with him and other devs and players because is surely a concern appeared more than once in the CDI….

This because we totally need a non biased point of view….its quite understandable an economist would push his favourite part of the game to central even if not supposed to.

That is why we need really a discussion in general section with Smith AND other devs.

P.S. its like a gamble ….on dices where you win 2X if any 2-12 happens and lose 10% if 1 happens….
Spectators will lose money if you win and will lose less if you lose…but they lose anyway because you play with part of their moneys and goods…

As i said more intervention like crystalline dst would keep the market fair…but they refuse and instead try to preserve greedy speculators warning then of changes and stuff.

Best part is gold sellers are the winners here.
The most money you have the easier is to control the market.

General Discussion is for subjects that don’t fit into another forum. There is already a “Black Lion Trading Company” forum, so if you post a thread about it in General a moderator will move it to the appropriate forum.

LordByron.8369:

Yeah yet you all hail to sentences like “less then X% of items are being successfully manipulated on the tp”

When i read that istantly i thougt “hey but less than 1% of tp items are in any demand…i don t think people are interested in lvl 4 White pistols…”

This section is totally biased..shows 0 data to support the great and nice TP and its full of partial information possibly given to derail arguments.

This is an issue that should at least once be discussed in general section with him and other devs and players because is surely a concern appeared more than once in the CDI….

This because we totally need a non biased point of view….its quite understandable an economist would push his favourite part of the game to central even if not supposed to.

That is why we need really a discussion in general section with Smith AND other devs.

P.S. its like a gamble ….on dices where you win 2X if any 2-12 happens and lose 10% if 1 happens….
Spectators will lose money if you win and will lose less if you lose…but they lose anyway because you play with part of their moneys and goods…

As i said more intervention like crystalline dst would keep the market fair…but they refuse and instead try to preserve greedy speculators warning then of changes and stuff.

Best part is gold sellers are the winners here.
The most money you have the easier is to control the market.

But threads like this will definitely get moved over here, nothing you can do about it. You can consider posting on reddit instead of complaining here. It might be able to bring you closer to your goal.

LordByron.8369:

This because we totally need a non biased point of view….its quite understandable an economist would push his favourite part of the game to central even if not supposed to.

That is why we need really a discussion in general section with Smith AND other devs.

Well looking over the thread, I see a pretty good diversity of opinion, so I don’t think this thread suffered too much from being moved to the BLTC forum. There’s no such thing as a non-biased point of view when you don’t have all the facts, and we don’t. There might have been more folks willing to commiserate with the OP in the General forum, but that I think would have been a far less constructive discussion.

Player economies are central parts of any MMO, no pushing required. Any game that has random drops is going to need a marketplace. I think accusing John of damaging the game to push his personal agenda is petty. I don’t give much credence to a position that can’t be argued without casting aspersions on other people’s character.

Making money on the TP is too easy, thats why I am doing it myself. Why should I spend hours farming boring stuff if I can more in a fraction of the time on TP. If thats not broken I dont know what is.

I dont’ think it’s even an economy problem.

It’s just the way the game is designed. They made legendary equipment rediculously difficult to obtain because it is probably the last gear you’ll ever need.

Other mmorpg push out new gear tier every say half years. So they never need to worry about people having no goals to achieve.

And the game have a strong focus on gathering material to get the gear you want. So every monster mobs drops a bunch of material. While other game focus on gaining gear from dungeons or raid or pvp.

Also GW2 made their game “so affordable” and without P2W, Anet have to at least try to make money from some where. Hence I do see them try to push their cashshop or at least trying to make people buy gold a bit.

I think that’s completely understandable. Because if people actually played other games, they’ll know how generous Anet is. Some of those freemium games even push their cashshop more.

LordByron.8369:

When i read that istantly i thougt “hey but less than 1% of tp items are in any demand…i don t think people are interested in lvl 4 White pistols…”

This is an issue that should at least once be discussed in general section with him and other devs and players because is surely a concern appeared more than once in the CDI….

That is why we need really a discussion in general section with Smith AND other devs.

As i said more intervention like crystalline dst would keep the market fair…but they refuse and instead try to preserve greedy speculators warning then of changes and stuff.

First of all there is a viable market for lvl 4 white pistols, simply salvage it and sell the copper ore/green wood for a profit. Promotion into t2 wood and ore also yields the best ROI per skillpoint in the game.

Strangely i agree, though, with most of the rest of your comment. A separated CDI for the TP/crafting/economy, including John Smith and other devs is a good idea and i thought about that for a while now. The CDI was introduced for a better communication between devs and player base and even though i dont follow the CDI discussions very closely in the general, wvw or pvp forums, i think they made a big step forward over there.

The TP and Crafting forums dont get much feedback from the devs, unless its a gem store related issue. I give Anet the benefit of the doubt and believe them that they at least pay attention to these forums and I am aware that it is hard in John Smiths position to give any feedback to most issues/questions or rants on here.

He said that he usually doesnt comment on a question, if the right answer has already been given by another player in that topic or if he already gave that answer somewhere else in the past.

Personally, i dont mind that stance but i think for new players or regular players that dont spend much time on the TP/crafting forums, this isnt the best solution.

With a CDI separated from the General CDI, we might actually get a bit more done collectively for the benefit of the whole game.

if you have more gear for lower levels and classes then you have more options to gear up in the first place, for now you have to grind your way up to lvl 80 and save tons of gold just to properly gear your self.
they need to make more rare and exotic weapons and armor with a lower level requirement, no one has enough gold for good lvl 80 gear when they finally made the lvl 80 milestone and forcing ppl to grind for gold is really not the answer.

mtpelion.4562:

LordByron.8369:

1) 0 risk huge reward If you lose moneys you are doing some serious mistake and yet you lose a small %. *
2) free pvp with people that doesn t want to play it but is forced (is realistically impossible to play without the tp)
3) its called guild wars 2 and its a mmorpg not a financial game…..consider it like a minigame ruining the main game.

• before you ask me why i don t do it if i find it so easy… i ll say that i tried just to see how hard it was. (small quantities)
  I quit because i find it ethically wrong…..(and did 30-40% clean profit)

Must… resist… urge… to apply… Godwin’s Law…

… Whew… Urge repressed. Here’s a less hyperbolic analogy:

You are asking for a non-mandatory part of the game to be modified because you have ethical problems with it. That is a completely totalitarian viewpoint to have and one that is, quite frankly, incredibly insulting.

You feel as though your play style is the master one and is more important than anyone else’s play style and that anyone who disagrees with you should be forced to either play your way or be interred in a camp outside of the game.

The Trading Post is not required. If you wish to play without it you are free to do so. It offers CONVENIENCE in the form of being able to convert gold into items or items into gold. You must PAY for that convenience. If you do not want to pay for the convenience then the appropriate response is to not participate, not to force all participants to play the game your way.

Saying the TP is not required is pretty absurd imo… It is most certainly required if you want to accomplish even the most basic proficiency in the game.

I personally have no problem with flipping and speculating, but to argue that the TP isn’t required is certainly not one of the reasons why.

Personally I think there should be more skill based rewards, I don’t find it very fun for everything to be a show of how much money you have.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Saying the TP is not required is pretty absurd imo… It is most certainly required if you want to accomplish even the most basic proficiency in the game.

I personally have no problem with flipping and speculating, but to argue that the TP isn’t required is certainly not one of the reasons why.

Personally I think there should be more skill based rewards, I don’t find it very fun for everything to be a show of how much money you have.

The TP is not required to play the game. It is a purely optional part of the content that makes playing the game MUCH more enjoyable.

If you are really opposed to the concept of free trade, you can play the game as a totally self-sufficient wilderness dweller. With that decision though, you will get to experience first hand why the division of labor is the foundation of all modern economies.

Note: “You” as used above refers to anyone who is opposed to free trade, not to the quoted user per se.

mtpelion.4562:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Saying the TP is not required is pretty absurd imo… It is most certainly required if you want to accomplish even the most basic proficiency in the game.

I personally have no problem with flipping and speculating, but to argue that the TP isn’t required is certainly not one of the reasons why.

Personally I think there should be more skill based rewards, I don’t find it very fun for everything to be a show of how much money you have.

The TP is not required to play the game. It is a purely optional part of the content that makes playing the game MUCH more enjoyable.

If you are really opposed to the concept of free trade, you can play the game as a totally self-sufficient wilderness dweller. With that decision though, you will get to experience first hand why the division of labor is the foundation of all modern economies.

Note: “You” as used above refers to anyone who is opposed to free trade, not to the quoted user per se.

That’s like saying that hitting foes is optional to play the game. Yes you don’t have to hit foes, but if you want to attain a desired result most likely you’ll need to hit some foes. Some things in this game are simply not obtainable w/o use of the tp.

Essence Snow.3194:

mtpelion.4562:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Saying the TP is not required is pretty absurd imo… It is most certainly required if you want to accomplish even the most basic proficiency in the game.

I personally have no problem with flipping and speculating, but to argue that the TP isn’t required is certainly not one of the reasons why.

Personally I think there should be more skill based rewards, I don’t find it very fun for everything to be a show of how much money you have.

The TP is not required to play the game. It is a purely optional part of the content that makes playing the game MUCH more enjoyable.

If you are really opposed to the concept of free trade, you can play the game as a totally self-sufficient wilderness dweller. With that decision though, you will get to experience first hand why the division of labor is the foundation of all modern economies.

Note: “You” as used above refers to anyone who is opposed to free trade, not to the quoted user per se.

That’s like saying that hitting foes is optional to play the game. Yes you don’t have to hit foes, but if you want to attain a desired result most likely you’ll need to hit some foes. Some things in this game are simply not obtainable w/o use of the tp.

Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anything that cannot be acquired outside of the Trading Post. Care to name a few?

Oh… and before I get accused of trolling, I’ll say that I do not play the Trading Post market, though I do sell whatever I get in game there… usually for the low request prices. In essence, I probably feed the TP flippers, but I’m not one myself.

TChalla.7146:

Essence Snow.3194:

mtpelion.4562:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Saying the TP is not required is pretty absurd imo… It is most certainly required if you want to accomplish even the most basic proficiency in the game.

I personally have no problem with flipping and speculating, but to argue that the TP isn’t required is certainly not one of the reasons why.

Personally I think there should be more skill based rewards, I don’t find it very fun for everything to be a show of how much money you have.

The TP is not required to play the game. It is a purely optional part of the content that makes playing the game MUCH more enjoyable.

If you are really opposed to the concept of free trade, you can play the game as a totally self-sufficient wilderness dweller. With that decision though, you will get to experience first hand why the division of labor is the foundation of all modern economies.

Note: “You” as used above refers to anyone who is opposed to free trade, not to the quoted user per se.

That’s like saying that hitting foes is optional to play the game. Yes you don’t have to hit foes, but if you want to attain a desired result most likely you’ll need to hit some foes. Some things in this game are simply not obtainable w/o use of the tp.

Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anything that cannot be acquired outside of the Trading Post. Care to name a few?

Oh… and before I get accused of trolling, I’ll say that I do not play the Trading Post market, though I do sell whatever I get in game there… usually for the low request prices. In essence, I probably feed the TP flippers, but I’m not one myself.

You mean outside of gem purchases, correct?

Cassocaster.4576:

TChalla.7146:

Essence Snow.3194:

mtpelion.4562:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Saying the TP is not required is pretty absurd imo… It is most certainly required if you want to accomplish even the most basic proficiency in the game.

I personally have no problem with flipping and speculating, but to argue that the TP isn’t required is certainly not one of the reasons why.

Personally I think there should be more skill based rewards, I don’t find it very fun for everything to be a show of how much money you have.

The TP is not required to play the game. It is a purely optional part of the content that makes playing the game MUCH more enjoyable.

If you are really opposed to the concept of free trade, you can play the game as a totally self-sufficient wilderness dweller. With that decision though, you will get to experience first hand why the division of labor is the foundation of all modern economies.

Note: “You” as used above refers to anyone who is opposed to free trade, not to the quoted user per se.

That’s like saying that hitting foes is optional to play the game. Yes you don’t have to hit foes, but if you want to attain a desired result most likely you’ll need to hit some foes. Some things in this game are simply not obtainable w/o use of the tp.

Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anything that cannot be acquired outside of the Trading Post. Care to name a few?

Oh… and before I get accused of trolling, I’ll say that I do not play the Trading Post market, though I do sell whatever I get in game there… usually for the low request prices. In essence, I probably feed the TP flippers, but I’m not one myself.

You mean outside of gem purchases, correct?

Yes… outside of gem purchases.

Remember candy corn 20 slot pails…impossible (realistically) to gather enough candy corn for it. 300 charged lodestones…how many years will this game last? GL gathering 300 silk per day everyday to not miss out on time gates……etc etc

It’s not hard to find places where the tp is needed. All one needs to do is look.

Essence Snow.3194:

Remember candy corn 20 slot pails…impossible (realistically) to gather enough candy corn for it. 300 charged lodestones…how many years will this game last? GL gathering 300 silk per day everyday to not miss out on time gates……etc etc

It’s not hard to find places where the tp is needed. All one needs to do is look.

I had just started playing the game during the Halloween event, so I don’t remember the pail. As far as whether or not getting candy corn was difficult, I can’t answer, since I didn’t get much at all due to not knowing how to acquire it or for what it was used.

Here’s the funny thing… I don’t worry about time gates. I’ve been playing MMORPGS for at least 12 years, and in that time, I’ve never once worried about gear. Ever. Not even in WoW, when I did nothing but Battlegrounds for months. Has it made things difficult? Of course it has. Have I really cared? Nope. I get items when I get them. There is nothing in game for which I cannot wait. It’ll be there for me when I’m ready to get them.

It’s not that it’s hard, it’s that the number needed was excessively high, so much so that it was impossible to collect without buying off the tp. Other items are moreso about low drop rates and rng behind them coupled with. For some items it doesn’t matter how much one tries to obtain them they may not ever due to rng.

Essence Snow.3194:

Remember candy corn 20 slot pails…impossible (realistically) to gather enough candy corn for it. 300 charged lodestones…how many years will this game last? GL gathering 300 silk per day everyday to not miss out on time gates……etc etc

It’s not hard to find places where the tp is needed. All one needs to do is look.

The pail is not a good example as it is one of many ways to get a 20 slot bag, and it is still possible to obtain via candy corn from the vendor. Combined with Halloween being a recurring event and the candy corn node, the pail is not “impossible” to realistically obtain, it just takes a very long time if you choose to skip the convenience of using the free market.

semantics……you know full well the point

Essence Snow.3194:

semantics……you know full well the point

Important distinction.

You can argue that you NEED food to live. You cannot argue that you NEED filet mignon and lobster every day to live.

When you conflate need with want, you reach the conclusion that the Trading Post makes thing too expensive. When you correctly identify needs and wants you realize that the Trading Post is your best friend.

mtpelion.4562:

Essence Snow.3194:

semantics……you know full well the point

Important distinction.

You can argue that you NEED food to live. You cannot argue that you NEED filet mignon and lobster every day to live.

When you conflate need with want, you reach the conclusion that the Trading Post makes thing too expensive. When you correctly identify needs and wants you realize that the Trading Post is your best friend.

This is a perfect reply……

Essence Snow.3194:

semantics……you know full well the point

Actually, the point was valid. Even the pail can be acquired simply by playing the game and not buying from the Trading Post. It’s a matter of patience.

Essence Snow.3194:

Remember candy corn 20 slot pails…impossible (realistically) to gather enough candy corn for it. 300 charged lodestones…how many years will this game last? GL gathering 300 silk per day everyday to not miss out on time gates……etc etc

It’s not hard to find places where the tp is needed. All one needs to do is look.

The pails weren’t required for anything, not an achievement, not for resale value, etc. As many calculated at the time, buying the pieces of candy corn to turn into corn cobs for the pail was extremely expensive and it was cheaper to buy a 20 slot bag. I would think most were after the mini you could buy with the cobs. And that wasn’t required for anything either.

The charged lodestones aren’t required. The legendary gifts take 100. The three exotic MF weapons take 250 plus the 100 from the gift of lightning, which is 350. All of these are optional weapons.

I agree with the 300 silk being a lot to get per day, but ascended armor is an end goal. If it is something you must have, then the TP is an optional way to gather silk scraps.

@ everyone that says the TP is required, there is a cost value associated with time. For those where the cost is high enough, using the TP to buy something saves money because time has a cost. For those where the cost is low enough, they sell what isn’t needed and farm what is needed for what they want.

If you say the TP is required, you believe that your time value is high enough that the TP becomes more efficient in gaining what you want. It isn’t required, but at some point, it becomes more cost effective for you, which is why you may feel it to be necessary.

This is just an anecdotal example of why it is not required:
I mentioned in another post that I played for 16 months without relying on the TP. I never participated in flipping, I mostly sold to the buy orders when I hit 250 of something. I even leveled my weapon crafters to 500 without buying anything from the TP because I’m such a hoarder.

I would buy gems only with gold and didn’t worry about what other players had. I had 6 level 80 characters turn 1 in August. I bought that 6th character slot with gems I purchased with in game silver (those were the days of 100 gems at 30 silver). I have bought at least 15 others since the Queen’s jubilee with in game gold -> gems.

I wasn’t even aware of the TP being considerd a mini game until I became more interested in the forums to get game info when all my friends quit. I would say that was around September, which was only after playing the game for over a year.

Crazy, huh?

Cassocaster.4576:

mtpelion.4562:

Essence Snow.3194:

semantics……you know full well the point

Important distinction.

You can argue that you NEED food to live. You cannot argue that you NEED filet mignon and lobster every day to live.

When you conflate need with want, you reach the conclusion that the Trading Post makes thing too expensive. When you correctly identify needs and wants you realize that the Trading Post is your best friend.

This is a perfect reply……

The point being that nothing is required in this game. Thus justification using “required” as a basis is moot in this case. The only thing required is character creation so anything past that is optional.

Essence Snow.3194:

Cassocaster.4576:

mtpelion.4562:

Essence Snow.3194:

semantics……you know full well the point

Important distinction.

You can argue that you NEED food to live. You cannot argue that you NEED filet mignon and lobster every day to live.

When you conflate need with want, you reach the conclusion that the Trading Post makes thing too expensive. When you correctly identify needs and wants you realize that the Trading Post is your best friend.

This is a perfect reply……

The point being that nothing is required in this game. Thus justification using “required” as a basis is moot in this case. The only thing required is character creation so anything past that is optional.

Correct. Nothing is required in this game. Also, playing the TP is not required to enjoy the game or get anything in game.