Guild Wars 2

Harder in the sense of just being more . . . cumbersome, I suppose. It’s not like I could do . . . DID . . . do, back on my last Wintersday and ran around handing out fireworks or sweet goods to people in Kamadan.

wow I thought this thread had died

Filaha.1678:

Brother Grimm.5176:

This fact makes OUR point….

Unless your point is that the current TP system is not as secure and idiot-proof as it could be, I don’t see how that makes your point.

My point is that the TP could certainly use improvements but one of them is NOT adding another complex system to the game that would ABSOLUTELY increase the number of support tickets WHILE potentially taking away a vital economic need in an MMO (gold sink). Anyone with a lick of sense would see that adding ANOTHER trade system to the current game can’t do anything but increase the number of trade related tickets…..your argument that there would be LESS tickets is laughable (and everything Anet has stated on this subject agrees with my assessment of these “numbers”).

Azrael.4960:

wow I thought this thread had died

Good point. I keep promising myself that I won’t reply, since the discussion has devolved into… well, let’s just say not everyone is listening to each other. (I’ll leave my editorial opinions to myself.)

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

If you read the posts that Gaile had to respond to in GW1 about scams, you wouldn’t be surprised that there are tons and tons of people who got taken advantage of, scammed, or were trying to renege on a deal, claiming that the other party cheated them. People would change the trade offer at the very beginning, so it was hard to tell just when something substantial was changed. There were substitutions, players would agree to terms and argue whether they were fulfilled, people would spam chat accusing someone of being a scammer (and sometimes they were).

Okay.

So what does this have to do with having a secure trading function?

The only thing in there that had anything specifically to do with a trading function is the changing of items, except both my original suggestion, which included a trade lock before the actual trade confirmation (meaning things can’t be changed, giving you as long as you want to double and triple check that the right items are there), and the subsequent evolved suggestion, running it through the BLTC interface where you could actually look up by item instead of necessarily a direct trade, would make any mistakes due to swapping be entirely the fault of someone paying zero attention.

But if they’re not going to worry about double-checking, they’re probably not going to have any qualms about trading through the mail, so they’re not necessarily more likely to get scammed.

Again, comparing a suggested trade feature with more security to something which is not secure at all is not a valid comparison.

Brother Grimm.5176:

My point is that the TP could certainly use improvements but one of them is NOT adding another complex system to the game that would ABSOLUTELY increase the number of support tickets WHILE potentially taking away a vital economic need in an MMO (gold sink). Anyone with a lick of sense would see that adding ANOTHER trade system to the current game can’t do anything but increase the number of trade related tickets…..your argument that there would be LESS tickets is laughable (and everything Anet has stated on this subject agrees with my assessment of these “numbers”).

So… no evidence, just the same assertions and poisoning the well?

Gotcha. Well, obviously no point in asking you for evidence yet again, so I’ll leave it there.

Filaha.1678:

So… no evidence, just the same assertions and poisoning the well?

Gotcha. Well, obviously no point in asking you for evidence yet again, so I’ll leave it there.

No one can provide what you are asking for. The system you are asking for does not exist, therefore no evidence exists regarding how well it works.

However, a similar system existed in the original Guild Wars, and the problems and abuses that came with it are the reason why the devs created a better system for Guild Wars 2. Instead of standing around calling out in chat for someone to trade their Dusk for your Dawn for however long it takes for someone to accept the offer, you can simply sell Dawn on the TP and put the money towards a buy order for Dusk. It’s far easier, safer and more elegant than spamming chat with countless “WTS” offers and such.

I’m not sure what you expect to happen. Do you think the devs will take your word for it that you’ve solved all their problems, and spend months developing and testing a new and completely unnecessary trading system, only to find out after it goes live that it doesn’t work the way they hoped it would. Then they say “oops, we wasted months of time and resources on something that didn’t work,” and start over?

The devs have the ability to examine an idea without writing the code for it, and have a pretty good idea how it will work. If this really is a better system, they are probably already working on it. If it’s not, then restating your idea over and over will never get anywhere. And considering the devs have specifically said they do not want P2P trading in the game, it’s probably not going to happen.

The wheels on the bus go round and round……

Hasn’t this run its course?

it’s really simple, face to face trading go’s directly to the player, the mail system requires you to type the character’s name in order to mail the item and when you’re just mailing it to a random person it becomes quite a chore, especially when the character has an obscured name.
it might sound silly but face to face trading is at least 3X faster and requires allot less chores.

Was gone for a week and am surprised this thread is still up.
Read through the OPs statements of last week and couldnt find a single arguement for this to be a good idea.

tolunart.2095:

No one can provide what you are asking for. The system you are asking for does not exist, therefore no evidence exists regarding how well it works.

Exactly my point. That’s why I question why people talk in absolutes as if there is evidence. People like to blame me for “not seeing both sides” because I don’t just drop my argument, but how many detractors have so much as even accepted that good things might come out of it versus those who just assert that it can only cause bad things?

That’s why when I suggested additional gold sinks, I asked for opinions on them regarding their effectiveness, rather than simply stating that they would be effective.

However, a similar system existed in the original Guild Wars

No, it didn’t. And if you think it did, you clearly haven’t read my actual suggestions.

Do you think the devs will take your word for it that you’ve solved all their problems, and spend months developing and testing a new and completely unnecessary trading system, only to find out after it goes live that it doesn’t work the way they hoped it would. Then they say “oops, we wasted months of time and resources on something that didn’t work,” and start over?

If I did expect that, then I wouldn’t have said, quite clearly and multiple times, that I don’t expect them to listen to me at all or put it in, and the discussion was mostly, in my part, from an academic perspective.

To be honest, though, I kind of feel like most of the detractors of the idea haven’t even read what I’ve said, given how often I’ve had to point out that I’ve already covered arguments they’re making, or their comparison of my suggestion to things that aren’t like my suggestion at all.

So, you keep making these “suggestions” that you know the devs are not interested in implementing, and in fact have already rejected as a possibility before GW2 even launched. And you keep asking for evidence you know that no one can provide. Your interest in the idea is “academic” but you refuse to consider arguments against the ideas because there is no evidence to prove that the idea is bad. You can’t prove a negative, but that’s beside the point.

You’re doing nothing but wasting everyone’s time and arguing for the sake of arguing.

Filaha.1678:

So… no evidence, just the same assertions and poisoning the well?

Gotcha. Well, obviously no point in asking you for evidence yet again, so I’ll leave it there.

Per previous, neither of us can provide evidence but the issue is YOUR side is the one that needs to PROVE it’s NEEDED for Anet to add it….good luck.

tolunart.2095:

So, you keep making these “suggestions” that you know the devs are not interested in implementing, and in fact have already rejected as a possibility before GW2 even launched. And you keep asking for evidence you know that no one can provide. Your interest in the idea is “academic” but you refuse to consider arguments against the ideas because there is no evidence to prove that the idea is bad. You can’t prove a negative, but that’s beside the point.

You’re doing nothing but wasting everyone’s time and arguing for the sake of arguing.

I refuse to simply accept arguments that are stated as immutable fact without evidence to support it, yes. Especially when most of those arguments keep getting repeated while ignoring things I’ve already said in counter to the arguments.

I ask for evidence because people are stating, without a doubt, that all these bad things will happen and nothing good will happen. If you’re going to state something as an absolute, you have to have evidence to back it up. If you have no evidence outside your own theories and assertions, then you shouldn’t state it as an absolute.

And I’m not wasting anybody’s time. I’ve (also) repeatedly said that if someone doesn’t want to argue this, they don’t have to. I’m not forcing you to be here.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Per previous, neither of us can provide evidence but the issue is YOUR side is the one that needs to PROVE it’s NEEDED for Anet to add it….good luck.

Nope. I’ve already said repeatedly (oh look, saying it again) that I’m not trying to convince them to add it, so I don’t need to prove it’s needed. Heck, even if I was trying to argue that it should be in the game, I still wouldn’t need to prove it needed to be in the game. The trait changes weren’t needed at all and they made it into the game.

I think you’re right about one thing: apart from some (very) educated guessing, we can’t be absolutely sure what kind of bad things will happen.

We can however be sure about the good thing that will happen. A few people save some gold. That’s it, and that’s definitely not worth it.