Guild Wars 2

How would Scarlet be Ellen if she’s the one that was helping you take down the Aetherblade base -.-

FateOmega.9601:

Why do people like to overthink such a simple plot line?

Because they want to be engaged. They want a story with depth, with compelling character that reward their time and attention and the Living Story as it’s written so far isn’t giving them that. Most of us are aware something is going on behind the story, but the problem is we haven’t been given enough of that to make anything feel interesting.

Thatguy.2034:

Here is what I think. Abaddon escaped and no one noticed, he still lives, but has taken the form of.. drum roll…. EVON GNASHBLADE!
So if you want to see the world burn and then have fun stopping it VOTE EVON

Sounds like the absolute best direction this game could take…really if any of the characters turned out to be a manifestation/servant of Abaddon. Ah, one can dream.

First and foremost I must point out the many flaws in the original poster’s theories, the main one being that Mai showed no recognition of Kiel as anything other than Lion’s Guard. Also, Kiel arrested her with her security officers. The reason for destruction of the fleeting ship was to make sure the Aetherblade cannons, those mounted on these pirate ships, are better off destroyed when not able to apprehend. There’s just no way she is Scarlet, to lead adventures/reinforcements into her force’s lair to help destroy highly valuable tech and kill well needed troops.

SpeedFiend.4521:

So, if Kiel wants to research Inquest stuff because she’s buddies with them…
Evon Gnashblade is secretly a cultist of Abaddon? Just when I thought there was no way he could have my vote more. Vote Gnashblade, be on the right side when the coming darkness swallows us all.

As for Gnashblade, you are wrong and foolish to think as much on Gnashblade. He’s part of the Ash Legion and was part of a special operation to take control of trade at Lion’s Arch. His commanding Legionnaire wanted to do this by brute force (think mafia style), but he wanted to do it through subterfuge. In an argument about which approach was best, he stabbed his Legionnaire in the head and took controlling command of his special operation group. This group became known as the Black Lion Trading Company.

SOURCE: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/short-story-evon-gnashblade-disembarks/

Another thing to consider is that Gnashblade is a Charr. Those of the Charr -particularly those of the Flame Legion- followed their ‘false gods’ (Titans) into leading a very aggressive campaign against humans. This included the use of the Searing Cauldrons, bestowed upon the Charr by the Titans, that destroyed much of Ascalon. And who were the Titans? The Titans were minions of Abaddon, who were ordered to command the Charr into that campaign. Puppeteer puppets, to say the least.

What does that boring history lecture have to do with Gnashblade? As a special operation leader of the Ash Legion, he’s basically got “Operation Steal Lion’s Arch” chalked up as ‘mission accomplished’. Now he’s in the position to attempt to control a type of Mist time machine to go back in time to speak to Abaddon. Can anyone really put two and two together? He’s trying to either get Abaddon to provide more powers to the present through the Mists time machine, OR he’s trying to stop the old human god’s banishing of Abaddon, thus altering the time line and possibly leading to the proper invasion by the Charr to all of Tyria.

FateOmega.9601:

Why do people like to overthink such a simple plot line?

Right? It’s like death, people just overthink it man.

Siphaed.9235:

What does that boring history lecture have to do with Gnashblade? As a special operation leader of the Ash Legion, he’s basically got “Operation Steal Lion’s Arch” chalked up as ‘mission accomplished’. Now he’s in the position to attempt to control a type of Mist time machine to go back in time to speak to Abaddon. Can anyone really put two and two together? He’s trying to either get Abaddon to provide more powers to the present through the Mists time machine, OR he’s trying to stop the old human god’s banishing of Abaddon, thus altering the time line and possibly leading to the proper invasion by the Charr to all of Tyria.

…You were doing well up until the last few lines. You are aware that the Fractals typically don’t influence anything outside of themselves, right? Even ignoring that, Abaddon not being banished wouldn’t necessarily help the possibility of a successful Tyrian spread invasion by the charr. If anything, it might reduce the possibility as they then wouldn’t have powerful artifacts supplied by a god through proxy to aid them.

Evon is going to turn out to be Flame legion. They’ve been trying to make a new god, and when that didn’t work they’re left high and dry. It’s not like there’s some deposed god of secrets who everyone thinks for dead that they could attempt to free by using knowledge gleamed from observing his imprisonment.

If Ellen is Scarlet: I will give all my votes to her. She will have epic story more than Evon.

SpeedFiend.4521:

Evon is going to turn out to be Flame legion. They’ve been trying to make a new god, and when that didn’t work they’re left high and dry. It’s not like there’s some deposed god of secrets who everyone thinks for dead that they could attempt to free by using knowledge gleamed from observing his imprisonment.

Someone already tried to release him 250 years ago, that’s when he was killed, not during the fall. So that method wouldn’t work.

I think the story is in a place right now where either character could turn out to be good, and either to be bad. Depending on how the vote goes, I’m assuming the winner will be the bobshell villain.

Navzar.2938:

SpeedFiend.4521:

Evon is going to turn out to be Flame legion. They’ve been trying to make a new god, and when that didn’t work they’re left high and dry. It’s not like there’s some deposed god of secrets who everyone thinks for dead that they could attempt to free by using knowledge gleamed from observing his imprisonment.

Someone already tried to release him 250 years ago, that’s when he was killed, not during the fall. So that method wouldn’t work.

You should pay more attention to the dialogue.

<player name>: “Kormir?”
Kormir: “No. Yes. Kormir. And much more.”
<player name>: “Abaddon?”
Kormir: “No. His power. His knowledge. But not him. His will is broken. There is a new god of secrets. There is a new day.”
Kormir: “Nightfall has come and gone. I have much to do…Much must be repaired.”
Kormir: “This will take you home, or to wherever you desire.”

Usually, if something is dead, I don’t go talking about how broken its will is, because that would be kind of redundant.

I think Ellen’s real last name is either Covington or Lethe.

Note E never refers to himself as a “Mr.”. Ellen Kiel could call herself E as well.

This is a serious stretch… reminds me of the “Indoctrination Theory” that came out after the flop ending of Mass Effect 3. People can’t handle that a game they enjoy simply has bad writing… so they attempt to put meaning where there is none.

I agree with an earlier poster… “Mr. E” is probably only named such because of the pun (sounds like mystery). I doubt it has been thought through much farther than that. And given the personal story and the entirety of living world content thus far, I just don’t think Anet is capable of a twist like making their hero Kiel (who has been the hero in most every LS so far) into a villain.

So while this would be interesting… meh. Don’t expect to see anything beyond the shallow surface we have seen so far.

I buy Mr. E being Evon Gnashblade. He was actually the first person that came into my mind when I got the email (it makes the most sense that a merchant with connections would A. find out about the plan and B. want to get someone else to act on that knowledge), and the fact that he’s in the election now and thus is probably going to become a more prominent character in the LS, even if he loses, only makes it seem more likely.

I don’t think Kiel is Scarlet, though. There’d be no reason to interfere with her own plans in the way that she did, if she was. I mean, she led the attack against the Aetherblades who were working for Scarlet. You could argue she’s trying to hide herself and gain the confidence of the council, but I think she pretty much has their confidence already (especially Magnus, and since he’s the head honcho…) so I wouldn’t see much reason for her to mess up her own plans to gain something she already has.

VitalSuit.1980:

How would Scarlet be Ellen if she’s the one that was helping you take down the Aetherblade base -.-

Because someone knew too much and she had to go and take them out before the truth about her got out. If anyone found out she was scarlet all of her hopes of getting a seat on the council would be lost! She just helped us thru the facility and didn’t actually participate in any of the fights.

Well…

When I first saw this thread, I assumed it was a joke, a takeoff of the Birther conspiracy and other politically-motivated conspiracies intended to fool the gullible out of voting for a particular candidate, and thus largely ignored is. Since I’ve seen people referencing it with all evidence of being serious, though, I think it’s time to pick it apart.

Regarding the mail: Simply put, Evon is far from being the only individual who might have gained word of something happening with the Dragon Bash ceremony. Some of these fit equally well with the “E” – for instance, for any random Shining Blade agent the ‘E’ could stand for Exemplar. Or, as has been noted above, the name could have nothing to do with the true name of “Mr. E”, and it’s simply chosen for the pun on ‘Mystery’.

Logan doesn’t trust the Lionguard: Marjory comes to that conclusion, not Logan. Additionally, any such distrust may not come from knowledge of Ellen personally. Logan has been in an environment of highly charged political intrigue for five years now, I expect he’s heard of times when the Lionguard has been paid off, and he’s watched as the Lionguard stand by when centaurs ravaged Kryta. He may not even know that Ellen specifically is even on the case, or he may trust Ellen but not her underlings or superiors.

Reaction to Kasmeer: Explained in interview. He was surprised to see a noblewoman in such a place. All there was to it.

Someone providing assistance to Marjory before she knew she needed it could be basically anyone who is interested in events in Kryta and the surrounding region, and who has the intelligence network to support that interest. Entities like the Shining Blade and Order of Whispers are better candidates than the BLTC. (Why doesn’t Mr. E identify himself to OoW characters if he’s OoW himself? Because our PCs can’t reveal what they don’t know, same as why we only discover the identity of the MoW when we had a need to know. Mr. E could even be Riel’s slated replacement.)

The elephant in the room the OP has missed:

I stood slowly, and as I reached my full height, a body came up gently behind me. Arms wrapped so intimately around me that my fight or flight instincts never kicked in. Then, a knife appeared at my throat.

I froze. When you’ve been had, there’s not much you can do but listen.

A deep voice whispered next to my ear, “Calm.” I sensed no necromantic power radiating from my captor. This was someone different. “The man you’re chasing is Kraig the Bleak. Magic for hire. You’ll probably never see him again.”

I asked, “Who are you?”

“Listen closely,” the deep voice said. “There are forces at work in this city, in this world, that will take us all down if we let them. Together, you and I can make a difference.”

My body was relaxing, senses expanding, and I’d finally caught my breath. “And what a positive start to our relationship.” My sense of humor was even returning.

“One you won’t forget. I’ll be in touch. You can call me E.”

Before I knew it, I was released, throat intact. I spun around, but no one was there. My captor—E—had left me standing, alone, on a moonless night, at the edge of a cobblestone street that smelled of rotting vegetables and dog droppings, and all I could think was, I need a new job.

Marjory being human in a human city, the assumption would be that E is human. If E was a member of another race – particularly charr – that would be noteworthy enough to mention.

The counterargument is that her assailant may be an agent, not the primary E – but in that case, E could be female as easily as E could be a charr. It’s Marjory that calls E “Mr. E” – on the basis that Marjory ‘knows’ E to be male.

I suspect I’m getting close to the character limit, so to be continued.

So, onto the Ellen is Scarlet side:

Ellen knowing her way around the retreat and knowing how to use the consoles:

Simplest explanation is game mechanics – ArenaNet decided the dungeon mechanics were going to involve an NPC operating things, probably as an anti-skip mechanic. If we’re going to use mechanics as basis for theories, one could just as easily theorise that Gnashblade is in cahoots with every enemy group in the game. After all, they all drop his reminder bags…

Even ignoring the mechanical element, the Retreat isn’t that hard to navigate, and Ellen’s worked with asura before, which means she likely has more of a handle on asura technology than most. Additionally, if she was in cahoots with the Aetherblades, she could just as easily have feigned ignorance.

Kiel’s interest in the Thaumanova: Let’s assume this isn’t just ArenaNet tacking on what should have been a separate vote and there are actual genuine motivations for each to choose a particular research path over another…

The Inquest is a highly secretive group. They would NOT want another party investigating their activities. Especially a group that might find sufficient proof that the Inquest caused the Thaumanova disaster to force the Arcane Council to enact sanctions against them.

It is far more likely that Kiel’s motivation for investigating the disaster is that she’s looking to stick it to the Inquest. Maybe she’s thinking about getting evidence to put before the Council. Or maybe she just wants to know more about Inquest technology and research so she can better defend against it.

On Kiel not fighting: I do recall her fighting in most of the dungeon, actually. I also recall that there were bugs related to her fighting or not fighting particular mobs. The simplest explanation for why she doesn’t fight is mechanics – particularly in the last room, since without human control, Ellen would only die or get in the way (by making it harder for the players to kite Mai through Horrik’s electric fields).

Finally:

Exosferatu.2961:

Inspector Ellen Kiel: I’m itching to blow that escaping airship out of the sky. Any ideas how to do that?
What’s in that airship anyway?

A crew of Aetherblade pirates that will continue to cause troubles for Lion’s Arch if they get away, maybe?

If Kiel was Scarlet, shooting down the ship would be a massive gamble – any incriminating evidence would have a chance to survive the ship’s destruction and the crash, and would then be brought down within sight of Lion’s Arch – where it would be much more likely to be found by LA authorities. The only way this would make sense is if she’s worried that the crew would betray her, or that if she’s going through the motions without believing that it’s possible to bring it down.

Meanwhile, there is no reason why a devoted defender of Lion’s Arch would not want to bring down the escaping airship if it could be achieved, except perhaps if there was a tracking beacon on the ship (and before anyone jumps on that, we have no credible reason to believe there might have been). Really, at this point you’re taking something that anyone in Kiel’s position would want to do unless they were in cahoots with the enemy and trying to spin it so it looks suspicious.

This is wonderful!

Someone played connect the dots and i am loving the picture he pulled out of it. It would be interesting if this is where the story is heading.

Good thoughts draxynnic, I forgot about the stuff around Marjory.

draxynnic.3719:

I stood slowly, and as I reached my full height, a body came up gently behind me. Arms wrapped so intimately around me that my fight or flight instincts never kicked in. Then, a knife appeared at my throat.
…
A deep voice whispered next to my ear, “Calm.” I sensed no necromantic power radiating from my captor. This was someone different. “The man you’re chasing is Kraig the Bleak. Magic for hire. You’ll probably never see him again.”

Marjory being human in a human city, the assumption would be that E is human. If E was a member of another race – particularly charr – that would be noteworthy enough to mention.

Marjory was grabbed from behind. And note she doesn’t say she was grabbed by a claw or hand, she was wrapped up in someone’s arm. She may not be sure what race it was that grabbed her. (Okay, probably not asura.)

We know that Evon is Ash Legion, and was a highly regarded soldier in that legion. You don’t think he has the ability to conceal he’s a charr to someone he’s attacked from behind?

There isn’t a lot of hard evidence, yeah, but there are certainly still signs that Evon could be E. The latest lore entry about Evon’s backstory points to the fact that he isn’t quite the charr you think he is.

Charr have a different body structure and a different voice to humans and, oh, let’s not forget, whiskers and fur - right next to Marjory’s ear, no doubt. If her captor was a charr, she’d know. A better argument, for the sake of argument, would be that Marjory was deliberately hiding E’s race, or that the captor was not the true E but an agent (Evon may be Ash, but he’s not exactly low profile – while he may be able to hide, his absence from the places he can normally be found would be noted… and why would Evon himself be hiding near a crime scene on the off chance a potential ally might show up?)

Short of the aforementioned possibility of Marjory knowing that her captor wasn’t human but choosing not to reveal that, I think it’s well beyond balance-of-probabilities that her captor was human, or at least easily mistaken for human.

Terrahero.9358:

This is wonderful!

Someone played connect the dots and i am loving the picture he pulled out of it. It would be interesting if this is where the story is heading.

And that’s how you know it’s not where the story is heading.

That felt too snarky.

SpeedFiend.4521:

Navzar.2938:

SpeedFiend.4521:

Evon is going to turn out to be Flame legion. They’ve been trying to make a new god, and when that didn’t work they’re left high and dry. It’s not like there’s some deposed god of secrets who everyone thinks for dead that they could attempt to free by using knowledge gleamed from observing his imprisonment.

Someone already tried to release him 250 years ago, that’s when he was killed, not during the fall. So that method wouldn’t work.

You should pay more attention to the dialogue.

<player name>: “Kormir?”
Kormir: “No. Yes. Kormir. And much more.”
<player name>: “Abaddon?”
Kormir: “No. His power. His knowledge. But not him. His will is broken. There is a new god of secrets. There is a new day.”
Kormir: “Nightfall has come and gone. I have much to do…Much must be repaired.”
Kormir: “This will take you home, or to wherever you desire.”

Usually, if something is dead, I don’t go talking about how broken its will is, because that would be kind of redundant.

Player character was inquiring about what happened to Kormir and Abaddon. Saying his will is broken is Kormir’s way confirming that he’s dead.