Guild Wars 2

Jett.1239:

DarcShriek.5829:

Jett.1239:

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

Buying and selling is a negotiation, and I’m suggesting we step our game up and push back on what they’re trying to feed us. Alternatively, enough negative PR could always have the effect on them determining it’s not cost effective.

enough negative PR would only shut down the game. And what would that achieve?
If you don’t want something, don’t buy it. I’m sure plenty of other people will. Other than that you deserve nothing except for the base content that was there when you bought the game and you are not entitled to anything.

I feel like you’re being disingenuous, but I’m not sure.

“Entitlement” or “I deserve” are alternative ways of framing expectations, and expectations in turn drive demand. If we collectively believe we deserve gem store updates that don’t solve artificial problems, chances are good we’ll see “better” gem store content.

Companies make market reactions to PR literally every day, this doesn’t require them to shut down — what in the world are you talking about, mind the hyperbole.

After reading your posts, I find it laughable that you would urge others to mind the hyperbole.

Nothing I’ve said is remotely hyperbole, manufacturing consumer pain and peddling the solution is shady even if you only trick a few people.

Their is no pain involved. It’s a video game, not life. If you find GW2 to be painful, you probably shouldn’t play it. Also, calling a slight inconvenience painful, is hyperbole.

In my industry, when you continue to play a game that is no longer fun to you, it’s considered addiction and you are advised to seek professional help. Either you consider pain to be fun, or you need help.

PattyCakeChamp.5268:

Alcyone.8695:

Paying for convenience is exactly the kind of thing we should have as a gem store item. Buying the pass only gets you services you can get elsewhere in the game for free (in an area that isn’t even well designed compared to free areas like Rata Sum). You don’t have to have it to be successful in the game.

Realistically, new/inexperienced players are not going to buy it because it’s a significant cash investment for a game they’re not committed to. Very new players are entirely unaffected by the current situation because the game doesn’t even lead you to Lion’s Arch in any capacity until you’re about level 25. Long-time/experienced players are the ones who will buy it, if they do, and they know other crafting areas exist in the game. Any economic advantage gained from not having to waypoint to another city to craft (and you had to waypoint to your chosen city to craft before anyway, and no one whined about the pavilion…) is offset by the fact that you would gain way more by converting the gems to gold than you would make over the duration by crafting items.

“Manufacturing consumer pain and peddling the solution” is exactly how every business operates. A basic principle of advertising is to create a need in the mind of the consumer, then show your product and how it fulfills that need. I have no idea why you think this is shady when most Westernized countries depend on this effect for their survival.

Let’s follow this up with touching on the watch work pick. Those people who complained because it was an infinite +1 and made theirs obsolete? I honestly feel they are the scrub consumer every company loves to take advantage of. Now realistically, it feels to me more aimed at those who were on the fence already about buying it, and this is an extra incentive to finally get one. Let’s face it, some scrubs getting sprockets will never harm the economy in significant fashion. I bought an infinite pick, and until the Super mining pick of extra orichalcum comes out, I’m just fine.

I’m honestly a little worred about the watchwork pick because it offers an actual advantage. But this pass definitely doesn’t.

Lol this is too much fun.

I wonder what would happen if I threw this curve ball in…..

You say thatd you be happy if the pass was only 100 gems rather then 1000.
What if there was a temp 2 week pass for only 150 gems that would give you the same access as the permanent one.

what would you say then? XD

Alcyone.8695:

PattyCakeChamp.5268:

Alcyone.8695:

Paying for convenience is exactly the kind of thing we should have as a gem store item. Buying the pass only gets you services you can get elsewhere in the game for free (in an area that isn’t even well designed compared to free areas like Rata Sum). You don’t have to have it to be successful in the game.

Realistically, new/inexperienced players are not going to buy it because it’s a significant cash investment for a game they’re not committed to. Very new players are entirely unaffected by the current situation because the game doesn’t even lead you to Lion’s Arch in any capacity until you’re about level 25. Long-time/experienced players are the ones who will buy it, if they do, and they know other crafting areas exist in the game. Any economic advantage gained from not having to waypoint to another city to craft (and you had to waypoint to your chosen city to craft before anyway, and no one whined about the pavilion…) is offset by the fact that you would gain way more by converting the gems to gold than you would make over the duration by crafting items.

“Manufacturing consumer pain and peddling the solution” is exactly how every business operates. A basic principle of advertising is to create a need in the mind of the consumer, then show your product and how it fulfills that need. I have no idea why you think this is shady when most Westernized countries depend on this effect for their survival.

Let’s follow this up with touching on the watch work pick. Those people who complained because it was an infinite +1 and made theirs obsolete? I honestly feel they are the scrub consumer every company loves to take advantage of. Now realistically, it feels to me more aimed at those who were on the fence already about buying it, and this is an extra incentive to finally get one. Let’s face it, some scrubs getting sprockets will never harm the economy in significant fashion. I bought an infinite pick, and until the Super mining pick of extra orichalcum comes out, I’m just fine.

I’m honestly a little worred about the watchwork pick because it offers an actual advantage. But this pass definitely doesn’t.

The watch work pick is like telling a ranger to get ascended stuff because it’ll help him beat the warrior in exotics… just no. Its sprockets. If they make sprockets more useful than for zealots/this current back piece, I’ll be a little worried.

DarcShriek.5829:

Jett.1239:

DarcShriek.5829:

Jett.1239:

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

Buying and selling is a negotiation, and I’m suggesting we step our game up and push back on what they’re trying to feed us. Alternatively, enough negative PR could always have the effect on them determining it’s not cost effective.

enough negative PR would only shut down the game. And what would that achieve?
If you don’t want something, don’t buy it. I’m sure plenty of other people will. Other than that you deserve nothing except for the base content that was there when you bought the game and you are not entitled to anything.

I feel like you’re being disingenuous, but I’m not sure.

“Entitlement” or “I deserve” are alternative ways of framing expectations, and expectations in turn drive demand. If we collectively believe we deserve gem store updates that don’t solve artificial problems, chances are good we’ll see “better” gem store content.

Companies make market reactions to PR literally every day, this doesn’t require them to shut down — what in the world are you talking about, mind the hyperbole.

After reading your posts, I find it laughable that you would urge others to mind the hyperbole.

Nothing I’ve said is remotely hyperbole, manufacturing consumer pain and peddling the solution is shady even if you only trick a few people.

Their is no pain involved. It’s a video game, not life. If you find GW2 to be painful, you probably shouldn’t play it. Also, calling a slight inconvenience painful, is hyperbole.

In my industry, when you continue to play a game that is no longer fun to you, it’s considered addiction and you are advised to seek professional help. Either you consider pain to be fun, or you need help.

You’re accusing me of hyperbole and yet you’ve decided that 1. Playing a game that is no longer fun is patently an addiction and that 2. I am playing a game that is no longer fun. I’m not sure what industry you are in, but that is not how addiction works.

Furthermore, I was not referring to literal pain, but the well-established concept of consumer pain. Please educate yourself on this basic term before you accuse me of hyperbole.

It’s definitely a cash grab — but I would like to point out that Lion’s Arch is not exactly convenient. On Mid-range systems the framerate is pretty poor — so sue me I haven’t updated my video card in a while.

Further, the distances between Black Lion TP, Banks and crafting stations is immense, compounded with the lousy framerate, Lion’s Arch is a hassle to do work in.

It’s much easier to do work in the Grove — although that’s missing a Mystic Forge.

In which case you can do your work in WvW Homeland — your Citadel has everything in much closer space than Lion’s Arch, except the Mystic Forge which is a quick port away at your Garri.

Oh, but I forgot, 99% of GW2 players are allergic to PVP/WvW….. so yeah just buy the cash grab ship pass. It’s awesome, seriously.

The only thing lost was having the mystic forge in the same map as the crafting stations.

This would be solved by putting a mystic forge node somewhere near crafting stations., or crafting stations somewhere near the mystic forge.

MithranArkanere.8957:

The only thing lost was having the mystic forge in the same map as the crafting stations.

This would be solved by putting a mystic forge node somewhere near crafting stations., or crafting stations somewhere near the mystic forge.

This brings to mind my desire to own a Mystic Forge Conduit item, but then the cost is so astronomical in my eyes I’m less inclined to actually go get one.

Seras.5702:

The only thing missing from Vigil Keep that was in LA are the crafting stations.

Why do people keep saying this? You’re wrong.

It is missing

- crafting stations

- laurel venders

- class trainers

Please do some basic research before spreading misinformation like this. Seems like all the anet defending fanboys are very quick to cite this “fact” without bothering to think 2 seconds about whether or not it actually is true.

wolfpaq.7354:

Why do people keep saying this? You’re wrong.

It is missing

- crafting stations

- laurel venders

- class trainers

Please do some basic research before spreading misinformation like this. Seems like all the anet defending fanboys are very quick to cite this “fact” without bothering to think 2 seconds about whether or not it actually is true.

and all of this can be solved by walking trough an asura gate!

Mirta.5029:

and all of this can be solved by walking trough an asura gate!

No it cannot, because now you are missing access to mystic forge, southsun cove access, etc.

There is no defending it. ArenaNet took away the convenience of Lion’s Arch and is now selling it for $12.50.

wolfpaq.7354:

Mirta.5029:

and all of this can be solved by walking trough an asura gate!

No it cannot, because now you are missing access to mystic forge, southsun cove access, etc.

There is no defending it. ArenaNet took away the convenience of Lion’s Arch and is now selling it for $12.50.

because you can’t use the same asura gate to walk back where you started? It’s not warcraft you know, we have fast and convenient ways of traveling.

PattyCakeChamp.5268

I bought an infinite pick, and until the Super mining pick of extra orichalcum comes out, I’m just fine.

Extra Ori? Probably not (with emphasis on the “probably”. I’m not willing to rule out a gem store pick that has an increased chance to give double ores/logs/plants per strike anymore), but the existing tools being upgraded to give Azurite (Molten pick), Halloween items (Jack-in-the-Box), Passion Flowers (Consortium sickle) etc.? I think that’s all within the realms of possibility now.

Mirta.5029:

because you can’t use the same asura gate to walk back where you started? It’s not warcraft you know, we have fast and convenient ways of traveling.

I feel like you don’t know what the word convenient means. Previously we had access to all that stuff WITHOUT having to deal with annoying loading screens. Now we don’t. Do you even understand the point of having central hubs in an MMO? GW2 used to have one, now it doesn’t. Unless you pay $12.50.

Again, you guys who are complaining to high heaven about just going through a single asura gate not being convenient, you’re acting entitled to everything. You know those casual gamers who complain they can’t do something for a reward that’s already easy to get, those same people who act like they want everything spoonfed to them? THAT’S WHO YOU ARE RIGHT NOW.

CrockD.8257:

Yes this is another complaint thread on the Captain’s Airship Pass.

For those who didn’t read the other thread: A lot of people got upset that the loss of Lions’s Arch represented the loss of the most useful and convenient hub for BLT, Bank, Crafting Stations, Mystic Forge, Skill Trainers and Vendors. It also had Asura gates to all the major cities. In its place we got two things, Vigil’s Keep (which does not have crafting stations, gate travel and far less vendors) and Havoc’s Heir Airship. The airship is a one stop shop for everything BUT costs 1000 gems for a lifetime pass, 1000 gems equals $12.50 in USD.

Those who (rather sycophantically) defended Arenanet made some of the following arguments:

You can just go to other cities:
Yes, but none of the other cities offer the same level of convenience as Lion’s Arch (in terms of number of services offered and proximity of services to each other, not to mention gate travel) , that’s why LA was consistently the most visited location. If you do a lot of crafting, or are trying to make a legendary or use the BLT a lot you absolutely know what I mean. Time is money and you will be losing a lot of time from this loss of convenience.

It’s part of the story/times change/you fear something new:
No. I love what they are doing with the story BUT when you take that convenience away and ask for money for its replacement, it is an OBVIOUS bait and switch.

Cashing in is not Arenanet’s intention:
Really? Then why did the 1,000 gem lifetime pass come with this new content as a “promoted item” in the gem store? To think otherwise is naive.

Look, I love this game and there’s much to praise Arenanet for, but i’m not just going to drink the Kool Aid either. Removing LA’s conveniences and charging $12.50 to get it back is wrong. It’s something I expect from Electronic Arts, not from Arenanet who by and large are the good guys.

Will I stop playing? Of course not! This represents an annoyance and a fairly pricey one at that but overall the game is still fantastic. I just offer this thread as a venue for people to raise their hand politely and say they don’t agree with this move and that they think Arenanet is better than this. Aside from this, the new content is awesome, love that they shook the game up this way, keep up the rest of the good work!

I agree with every point of this post, especially with the

It’s part of the story/times change/you fear something new:
No. I love what they are doing with the story BUT when you take that convenience away and ask for money for its replacement, it is an OBVIOUS bait and switch.

I honestly do not know why something like that can happened, i mean what am i suppose to tell my friends that wana buy this game? “Well they made a change recently and now you gotta spend gold or money or travel to other cities wait all the loading screens spend report money for something that was there for free, and no i have no idea why they did that, well ok for the money”

PattyCakeChamp.5268:

Alcyone.8695:

Paying for convenience is exactly the kind of thing we should have as a gem store item. Buying the pass only gets you services you can get elsewhere in the game for free (in an area that isn’t even well designed compared to free areas like Rata Sum). You don’t have to have it to be successful in the game.

Realistically, new/inexperienced players are not going to buy it because it’s a significant cash investment for a game they’re not committed to. Very new players are entirely unaffected by the current situation because the game doesn’t even lead you to Lion’s Arch in any capacity until you’re about level 25. Long-time/experienced players are the ones who will buy it, if they do, and they know other crafting areas exist in the game. Any economic advantage gained from not having to waypoint to another city to craft (and you had to waypoint to your chosen city to craft before anyway, and no one whined about the pavilion…) is offset by the fact that you would gain way more by converting the gems to gold than you would make over the duration by crafting items.

“Manufacturing consumer pain and peddling the solution” is exactly how every business operates. A basic principle of advertising is to create a need in the mind of the consumer, then show your product and how it fulfills that need. I have no idea why you think this is shady when most Westernized countries depend on this effect for their survival.

Let’s follow this up with touching on the watch work pick. Those people who complained because it was an infinite +1 and made theirs obsolete? I honestly feel they are the scrub consumer every company loves to take advantage of. Now realistically, it feels to me more aimed at those who were on the fence already about buying it, and this is an extra incentive to finally get one. Let’s face it, some scrubs getting sprockets will never harm the economy in significant fashion. I bought an infinite pick, and until the Super mining pick of extra orichalcum comes out, I’m just fine.

Wait… you didn’t get the Super Adventure Pick* while it was out? Every time you mine something it acts like a Rich Orichalcum node. If you want anything else, too bad, but Orichalcum out the kitten.

*not to be mistaken for a real product

wolfpaq.7354:

Mirta.5029:

because you can’t use the same asura gate to walk back where you started? It’s not warcraft you know, we have fast and convenient ways of traveling.

I feel like you don’t know what the word convenient means. Previously we had access to all that stuff WITHOUT having to deal with annoying loading screens. Now we don’t. Do you even understand the point of having central hubs in an MMO? GW2 used to have one, now it doesn’t. Unless you pay $12.50.

Or play the content for an hour.

I have five tickets. I’d give you one, but I can’t. Go get your own.

I’m not even surprised anymore how such ignorance and entitlement can warrant such a mundane topic for discussion.

Saturn.6591:

I really should stop reading this thread. It makes me want to facepalm harder than my head would be able to bear. Some people really will put on tinfoil hats and complain about anything, just for the sake of complaining; no matter how ridiculous the “reason” actually is.

IF, and that’s really one big “if”; IF I would really need to run around between bank, TP, mystic forge, dungeon vendors, laurel merchant and guild commendations trader like 100 times in one or two hours… IF that would be the case, it would be faster now than it would have been in LA. This due to shorter distances and less/shorter loading screens.

And now excuse me; I need to convince my hands to not move towards my forehead with increased speed.

the thing is , you need people to complain about stuff like this , otherwise anet faces a slippery slope and putting alot more useful / necesary stuff behind a paywall , complain about the complainers all you want , they are a necesity.

Enundr.9305:

Saturn.6591:

I really should stop reading this thread. It makes me want to facepalm harder than my head would be able to bear. Some people really will put on tinfoil hats and complain about anything, just for the sake of complaining; no matter how ridiculous the “reason” actually is.

IF, and that’s really one big “if”; IF I would really need to run around between bank, TP, mystic forge, dungeon vendors, laurel merchant and guild commendations trader like 100 times in one or two hours… IF that would be the case, it would be faster now than it would have been in LA. This due to shorter distances and less/shorter loading screens.

And now excuse me; I need to convince my hands to not move towards my forehead with increased speed.

the thing is , you need people to complain about stuff like this , otherwise anet faces a slippery slope and putting alot more useful / necesary stuff behind a paywall , complain about the complainers all you want , they are a necesity.

I don’t need anyone to complain about this. I don’t personally think there’s anything to complain about. To be honest, I think there are several people on this forum (or pretty much every game forum) that complain just to complain. I’m not saying that’s the original poster’s reason for posting. However, I will say that as far as I can see, this topic is a far grasp from being necessary. Some of the complaints I’ve seen recently are irksome. This happens to be one of those topics, because it’s trivial at best.

Mirta.5029:

Other than that you deserve nothing except for the base content that was there when you bought the game and you are not entitled to anything.

Exactly. You’re not entitled to anything, not even the base content. The User Agreement is clear. All we can have from NCSoft and ArenaNet is regulated by that agreement. Thinking differently is legally wrong.

But then again, what we can expect from a company, what we like as customers, is regulated by our idea of business ethics, which is something that goes beyond legal agreements and is strictly personal. I thought, as a customer, that I deserved more and better than what I had with the introduction of an Airship pass.

I have completely stopped playing for the moment since I’d have no fun, I have no good feelings about the game now. I thought that making permanent picks account bound (and not soulbound) was a good move, overall. Customer friendly. I would have paid for that conversion and I was surpised there was no fee for it, and I wouldn’t say pleasantly surprised, because I felt that not paying for such conversion was unfair to early adopters who bought multiple sets for their toons (I bought a complete set and I have 9 lvl 80 characters, I bought gems with real money for the slots and other commodities and I’m prepared to do so for actual content that satisfies my tastes despite the convertibility of ingame currencies). But I don’t like what happened in this case and dropping out of the game – either permanently or temporarily – is my reaction. I’m not happy about it since I overall liked GW2 but hey, life is complex and undeniably short if good, and there’s life before, during and after GW2, so I’ll cope with it.

I’ll add that I could sell part of my inventory to get gold and then convert to gems to have the passes I need, but that’s beyond the point, because money isn’t the point in this case, at least for me: it’s what that money is for that counts.

Of course, I also voice my discontent in this forum, so ArenaNet knows. Many people feel the same and there’s nothing inherently wrong or good about it. It’s just a decision about rewarding a compay or not for its practices.

$12.50 for a fastport to the Vigil Keep. Plus you can spit over the side at the hills below. 20 points if you can actually hit someone.

wolfpaq.7354:

I feel like you don’t know what the word convenient means. Previously we had access to all that stuff WITHOUT having to deal with annoying loading screens. Now we don’t. Do you even understand the point of having central hubs in an MMO? GW2 used to have one, now it doesn’t. Unless you pay $12.50.

It still has a central hub. In Vigil’s keep. And lesser cities as main race cities. You seem to not to know what a central hub is. Remember other MMOs. Is absolutely everything located in one city? No. For example: you can’t get PvP gear in ANY of the main cities in WoW, you can’t raise your cooking to the max (or any other profession for that matter) in Mists of Pandaria city, your raid vendors won’t be in your main cities.
In fact I can’t remember a single MMO where everything would be saturated into one place. GW2 is more normal now than it was previously.

albieg.7021:

Exactly. You’re not entitled to anything, not even the base content. The User Agreement is clear. All we can have from NCSoft and ArenaNet is regulated by that agreement. Thinking differently is legally wrong.

Not really. You do have rights to the base content because that’s exactly what you bought. You’re not entitled to anything on the gem store or the ability to change anything.
Same with single player games. You get what you buy. You can not dictate what goes into updates afterwards.
Same with restaurants. If you bought a steak you’re not entitled to being able to tell the chef what kind of risotto they should serve.

In other words you bought a game. You have what you bought. Don’t like the passes? Don’t buy one.

Hyperion.4638:

I agree with every point of this post, especially with the

It’s part of the story/times change/you fear something new:
No. I love what they are doing with the story BUT when you take that convenience away and ask for money for its replacement, it is an OBVIOUS bait and switch.

I honestly do not know why something like that can happened, i mean what am i suppose to tell my friends that wana buy this game? “Well they made a change recently and now you gotta spend gold or money or travel to other cities wait all the loading screens spend report money for something that was there for free, and no i have no idea why they did that, well ok for the money”

1. What I find funny is that people wouldn’t have the problem if it was just the lack of convenience and no item on the gem store.
2. Going trough an Asura gate costs nothing, the load screen takes 5 seconds. Going to WvW to craft and the leaving it costs nothing. And even if you decided to use waypoints instead of gates (even though gates are more convenient keeping in mind that they’re right in front of the mystic forge in vigil’s keep) you would be using like 2 silver when you’re level 80. I can make 10 gold in 1 hour by running cof twice and catching two world boss events and you’re complaining about 2 silver?

Lothirieth.3408:

I actually like Rata Sum for crafting as it’s all much closer to the TP.. but problem is, no forge. Then the vigil keep has everything fairly close.. but no crafting. Given how the forge can play a role in some crafting recipes, these two amenities shouldn’t have been split up imo.

This is why the “crafting is available in other cities” argument doesn’t fly for me.

Mystic forge is easy to get to from anywhere. Just port to the mists, run to forge (takes 10 seconds) and when you’re done you can hit “leave the mists” and return to exactly where you were.

UrbanEMP.2654:

I’m not even surprised anymore how such ignorance and entitlement can warrant such a mundane topic for discussion.

Do you really not see an issue with a company selling solutions to artificially imposed problems? It may not be a problem for you, but surely there are droves of players who acted to buy the pass — it begets more content like this on the gem store, and that’s not good for any of us in the player base.

No, because the royal terrace already exists.

Were going to take back lions arch next patch which should restore your ‘convenience’.

Jett.1239:

UrbanEMP.2654:

I’m not even surprised anymore how such ignorance and entitlement can warrant such a mundane topic for discussion.

Do you really not see an issue with a company selling solutions to artificially imposed problems? It may not be a problem for you, but surely there are droves of players who acted to buy the pass — it begets more content like this on the gem store, and that’s not good for any of us in the player base.

Where are these droves? I know for a fact that when there is a legitimate problem the forums drown in outrage. Where is it? A handful of people? Hardly droves. The droves realized it’s not a big deal and adapted to the new situation.

Providing a solution for an artificially produced problem also isn’t very meaningful when the artificially produced problem was the loss of an artificially produced convenience. This is a game, designed an built by a company. They put everything where it was and made it so things worked the way they did.

They created the convenience that you so lauded. Then they took it away. They gave ample warning that things would change. They didn’t change quite as much as expected, but knowing that some people would not be satisfied with the change they added a pay service. A pay service that already exists, identically, in Divinity’s Reach. They just added a new instance of it.

So the people who absolutely needed to have everything and can’t live with the minor delay of portals could have it for a price. Those that want that convenience, but don’t need it immediately at their fingertips can play the content and get access for free. Everyone else can go about their business as usual and ignore that any such things even exists.

Jett.1239:

UrbanEMP.2654:

I’m not even surprised anymore how such ignorance and entitlement can warrant such a mundane topic for discussion.

Do you really not see an issue with a company selling solutions to artificially imposed problems? It may not be a problem for you, but surely there are droves of players who acted to buy the pass — it begets more content like this on the gem store, and that’s not good for any of us in the player base.

I don’t. There’s no subscription fee. The developers and employees of ArenaNet have the right to monetize the game in any way they see fit.

Is it worth $12.50 to you to not have to see a bunch of loading screens? No? Cool, then keep playing the game without a sub. Yes. Cool, then buy the airship pass.

You can’t have everything for free.

Jett.1239:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

If hordes of people paid real money for such a pass when it was frankly unnecessary in the first place, then they obviously wanted a 100% assurance that they would get in no matter what, and to them i say, sure have fun. Its their money to spend as they please.

See, i don’t need to ever open a BLC, and can go ahead and sell my almost 250 stack of them. i can also decide to buy some keys to see what i might get. That is my right as a consumer. Anet offers X and i decide if i want to buy it. If not, then I don’t. It doesn’t take anything away from the game for me, nor does buying anything give me some distinct “edge”. It just doesn’kittens

like me getting upset with Valve for selling some weapon in TF2 in their store. So what? Someone wants to buy something they can craft or get from a random drop then so be it. More power to them.

There’s not really a point in arguing if you really hold that opinion. Future content for the gem-store hinges on sales for current gem-store items, supporting the creation and solution of artificial problems (Captains Pass) logically leads to more of that being on the gem store.

It’s your right as a consumer to push back and claim that you want more for your money — it isn’t entitlement, it’s the very essence of a buyer-seller relationship. I think we, the playerbase of GuildWars2, deserve better than this. Agree or disagree, but supporting content like this begets content like this.

There is no “creating a problem and it’s solution” here. No one is saying you have to get a captains pass for a single dime. They are even giving them away in those bags you get from PLAYING the game. Specifically PLAYING the NEW content that they make and deliver to us in 2 week intervals. Please tell me any other game with that level of consistent content updating. For free.

Do they introduce things into the gemstore that might make certain things “easier” for you as a player? Sure. Do any of them give you a distinct advantage over another player or over content in the game? Nope. If they made it so you could not progress and play the game unless you bought x, y, or z then you’d have a legitimate beef with Anet right now. Instead, you are getting upset because you might have to get a drop to us the airship or might have to wp or gate yourself to a different map to use a crafting table, etc. Its just goofy.

wolfpaq.7354:

Mirta.5029:

because you can’t use the same asura gate to walk back where you started? It’s not warcraft you know, we have fast and convenient ways of traveling.

I feel like you don’t know what the word convenient means. Previously we had access to all that stuff WITHOUT having to deal with annoying loading screens. Now we don’t. Do you even understand the point of having central hubs in an MMO? GW2 used to have one, now it doesn’t. Unless you pay $12.50.

Or if, you know, you get 3904587349537* passes that drop from the bags from playing the game.

*not an exact number

You know, I wanna’ just go whaaaa whaaaa whaaaa, six pages! of complaining about a situation that has been explained over and over to be a non-issue, so what if Anet sells passes, so what if it breeds more items in the gem store that are similar and the kitten sheep buy them, Anet is a business they need to turn a profit and you know what most of us are smart enough to see value in a item or if that item offers a enough convenience to warrant spending our money on, just like in RL if you don’t like the price, value or the convenience offered by a product you don’t buy it and the companies selling the item gets a very clear message that it wasn’t wanted or needed by their consumers.

Complaining might make you feel better but it comes down to sales, if Anet sells enough of the items regardless of people complaining they will do it again because they are here to turn a profit not win a popularity contest, sales/profit trumps just about everything in business and lets face the facts if they make a profit selling passes it was apparently the right choice for them and they will continue to make such items available because there is a demand for the product and profit to be made which helps keep a game like GW2 going.

It’s very simple if you don’t like the product don’t buy it, vote with your wallet the same as you do in real life, if your on the side that wins and the product goes away then you made a difference, if you loose then you were on the wrong side of the issue to begin with and were out voted by people who saw more value and convenience in a item than you did.

Trying to apply emotion, feelings, or any similar traits to a business transaction to make the seller look greedy or underhanded is unwarranted because for Anet this is a business to make a profit and supplying items that their customers buy is a big part of their after the box sales, trying to place a stigma on a item because it is based on a perceived inconvenience that has many free work-arounds does nothing to bolster claims and makes you look rather foolish or childish, the fact remains don’t buy the item if it doesn’t offer you some form of value, convenience, or price point.

Blanger.3162:

You know, I wanna’ just go whaaaa whaaaa whaaaa, six pages! of complaining about a situation that has been explained over and over to be a non-issue, so what if Anet sells passes, so what if it breeds more items in the gem store that are similar and the kitten sheep buy them, Anet is a business they need to turn a profit and you know what most of us are smart enough to see value in a item or if that item offers a enough convenience to warrant spending our money on, just like in RL if you don’t like the price, value or the convenience offered by a product you don’t buy it and the companies selling the item gets a very clear message that it wasn’t wanted or needed by their consumers.

Complaining might make you feel better but it comes down to sales, if Anet sells enough of the items regardless of people complaining they will do it again because they are here to turn a profit not win a popularity contest, sales/profit trumps just about everything in business and lets face the facts if they make a profit selling passes it was apparently the right choice for them and they will continue to make such items available because there is a demand for the product and profit to be made which helps keep a game like GW2 going.

It’s very simple if you don’t like the product don’t buy it, vote with your wallet the same as you do in real life, if your on the side that wins and the product goes away then you made a difference, if you loose then you were on the wrong side of the issue to begin with and were out voted by people who saw more value and convenience in a item than you did.

Trying to apply emotion, feelings, or any similar traits to a business transaction to make the seller look greedy or underhanded is unwarranted because for Anet this is a business to make a profit and supplying items that their customers buy is a big part of their after the box sales, trying to place a stigma on a item because it is based on a perceived inconvenience that has many free work-arounds does nothing to bolster claims and makes you look rather foolish or childish, the fact remains don’t buy the item if it doesn’t offer you some form of value, convenience, or price point.

People do that all the time, it’s called “brand equity”. Hell, “good will” is literally a term represented on a balance sheet. If you can’t tell the difference between (I keep using this phrase despite none of you knowing what it means) manufacturing consumer pain vs. solving consumer pain, well, I can’t help you.

Enjoy the kool-aid.

Jett.1239:

Blanger.3162:

You know, I wanna’ just go whaaaa whaaaa whaaaa, six pages! of complaining about a situation that has been explained over and over to be a non-issue, so what if Anet sells passes, so what if it breeds more items in the gem store that are similar and the kitten sheep buy them, Anet is a business they need to turn a profit and you know what most of us are smart enough to see value in a item or if that item offers a enough convenience to warrant spending our money on, just like in RL if you don’t like the price, value or the convenience offered by a product you don’t buy it and the companies selling the item gets a very clear message that it wasn’t wanted or needed by their consumers.

Complaining might make you feel better but it comes down to sales, if Anet sells enough of the items regardless of people complaining they will do it again because they are here to turn a profit not win a popularity contest, sales/profit trumps just about everything in business and lets face the facts if they make a profit selling passes it was apparently the right choice for them and they will continue to make such items available because there is a demand for the product and profit to be made which helps keep a game like GW2 going.

It’s very simple if you don’t like the product don’t buy it, vote with your wallet the same as you do in real life, if your on the side that wins and the product goes away then you made a difference, if you loose then you were on the wrong side of the issue to begin with and were out voted by people who saw more value and convenience in a item than you did.

Trying to apply emotion, feelings, or any similar traits to a business transaction to make the seller look greedy or underhanded is unwarranted because for Anet this is a business to make a profit and supplying items that their customers buy is a big part of their after the box sales, trying to place a stigma on a item because it is based on a perceived inconvenience that has many free work-arounds does nothing to bolster claims and makes you look rather foolish or childish, the fact remains don’t buy the item if it doesn’t offer you some form of value, convenience, or price point.

People do that all the time, it’s called “brand equity”. Hell, “good will” is literally a term represented on a balance sheet. If you can’t tell the difference between (I keep using this phrase despite none of you knowing what it means) manufacturing consumer pain vs. solving consumer pain, well, I can’t help you.

Enjoy the kool-aid.

Kool-Aid is too sweet, I don’t buy it

russia.9057:

Jett.1239:

UrbanEMP.2654:

I’m not even surprised anymore how such ignorance and entitlement can warrant such a mundane topic for discussion.

Do you really not see an issue with a company selling solutions to artificially imposed problems? It may not be a problem for you, but surely there are droves of players who acted to buy the pass — it begets more content like this on the gem store, and that’s not good for any of us in the player base.

I don’t. There’s no subscription fee. The developers and employees of ArenaNet have the right to monetize the game in any way they see fit.

Is it worth $12.50 to you to not have to see a bunch of loading screens? No? Cool, then keep playing the game without a sub. Yes. Cool, then buy the airship pass.

You can’t have everything for free.

You’re missing the point, people are accusing this content of being below their expectations (and ArenaNet’s track record) in addition to smacking of manufactured opportunism.

If you’d like to claim that makes us “entitled” i’d just retort that the buying/selling process is a negotiation, and consumer expectations play a huge role in pricing/brand management. If the consumer doesn’t push back (bad PR, social media, boycotts) you can’t expect a company to offer a quality product moving forward.

Seras.5702:

The only thing missing from Vigil Keep that was in LA are the crafting stations. But truth be told, LA was not convenient for crafting anyway. I’ve always done my crafting in Rata Sum because the crafting stations are closest to the bank & TP.

There are asura gates to all major cities in VK, just like they were in LA. And if you go thru the LA portals that’re in the major cities, they take you to VK.

Even if LA is gone for good, the Vigil Keep is a hastily thrown together refugee outpost (in game terms, not developer terms). Give Tyrians a few weeks/months to recoil from the sudden attack on LA, fight Scarlet, and begin a new city. Give it time and we might see a new city to replace LA, the expansion of the various Order headquarters, a new push into Southsun that results in the creation of a new grand city. Or maybe Anet is just sick of everyone afk-ing in one place and has plans to make all of Tyria more appealing to visit.

You can’t whine about inconvenience when there’s very little inconvenience and Anet offers you TWO ways around it. Buy the unlimited pass or open event bags and maybe you’ll get some 1-time use passes. I’ve gotten 3 so far and haven’t used one yet because VK isn’t inconvenient. The bank and TP are actually closer in VK than they were in LA. So are the asura gates.

I never parked in LAafter ~month 3 of playing, so I may very well be missing some uber convenience that others have experienced, but…

I park in Rata Sum because all the base services (including crafting) are closer together.

If I need Laurels, it’s a 30 second walk upstairs, or a 5-second waypoint+loading screen.

It takes a bit longer now to get to a Mystic Toilet now, granted… I go the WvWvW route (unless Dragonbrand doesn’t own the location) OR via Edge of the Mysts to Vigil Keep (since LA is under siege). The last one takes two loading screens: one about 20 secs, the second potentially 60 secs, depending upon how many people are in there.

Now I haven’t done it yet, but does teleporting to the airship require a loading screen? If so, is it shorter than the timeframes for the routes cited above?

I suspect the quoted poster above is right – this is temporary and for effect. I’m also hoarding three one-time passes both because thus far I’ve not needed one AND just in case I am wrong about the temporary thing.

Why not make crafting hubs, Laurel vendors,TP,Bank and all other vendors of that ilk ONLY available from the gemstore?
I mean Anet doesn’t make people pay a sub and they do need a form of revenue right?

Anet is on a very slippery slope with this last one and it seems that they have been edging slowly downward.

MithranArkanere.8957:

…This would be solved by putting a mystic forge node somewhere near crafting stations., or crafting stations somewhere near the mystic forge.

Yes! REGARDLESS of the current topic!

This has been needed for a long time… even when LA was up. Those of us preferring to park elsewhere have been wanting this for a WHILE.

Can i pay the $12.50 for a guild hall? I mean if a few gems is the only thing standing between me & my guild hall, then what’s the holdup….. Seems like gems are what drives development, & i know guild halls have been mentioned since launch (since we had them in GW1), so i ask Anet, if it’s gems you want, it’s gems you’ll get. BUT at least give us back the social hub that was once my favorite place in GW1…..

Jett.1239:

People do that all the time, it’s called “brand equity”. Hell, “good will” is literally a term represented on a balance sheet. If you can’t tell the difference between (I keep using this phrase despite none of you knowing what it means) manufacturing consumer pain vs. solving consumer pain, well, I can’t help you.

Enjoy the kool-aid.

Good will comes in many different forms, did you not receive the free minis last week?

Consumer pain in this case is a perceived notion, it already had multiple free remedies that are available to every player without spending 1 copper. (we won’t even mention the free passes which gives a direct access to the items)

BTW I prefer cherry kool-aid, the lime has to much of a pucker factor.

Jett.1239:

russia.9057:

Jett.1239:

UrbanEMP.2654:

I’m not even surprised anymore how such ignorance and entitlement can warrant such a mundane topic for discussion.

Do you really not see an issue with a company selling solutions to artificially imposed problems? It may not be a problem for you, but surely there are droves of players who acted to buy the pass — it begets more content like this on the gem store, and that’s not good for any of us in the player base.

I don’t. There’s no subscription fee. The developers and employees of ArenaNet have the right to monetize the game in any way they see fit.

Is it worth $12.50 to you to not have to see a bunch of loading screens? No? Cool, then keep playing the game without a sub. Yes. Cool, then buy the airship pass.

You can’t have everything for free.

You’re missing the point, people are accusing this content of being below their expectations (and ArenaNet’s track record) in addition to smacking of manufactured opportunism.

If you’d like to claim that makes us “entitled” i’d just retort that the buying/selling process is a negotiation, and consumer expectations play a huge role in pricing/brand management. If the consumer doesn’t push back (bad PR, social media, boycotts) you can’t expect a company to offer a quality product moving forward.

Who are these people and why should anyone care what they say? Are they credible? Are there expectations reasonable? You’re saying all these things, but the simple fact is the primary bulk of the population doesn’t care. As such it seems like the people complaining do not comprise a significant enough portion to effect anything, let alone change.

KarateKid.5648:

Seras.5702:

The only thing missing from Vigil Keep that was in LA are the crafting stations. But truth be told, LA was not convenient for crafting anyway. I’ve always done my crafting in Rata Sum because the crafting stations are closest to the bank & TP.

There are asura gates to all major cities in VK, just like they were in LA. And if you go thru the LA portals that’re in the major cities, they take you to VK.

Even if LA is gone for good, the Vigil Keep is a hastily thrown together refugee outpost (in game terms, not developer terms). Give Tyrians a few weeks/months to recoil from the sudden attack on LA, fight Scarlet, and begin a new city. Give it time and we might see a new city to replace LA, the expansion of the various Order headquarters, a new push into Southsun that results in the creation of a new grand city. Or maybe Anet is just sick of everyone afk-ing in one place and has plans to make all of Tyria more appealing to visit.

You can’t whine about inconvenience when there’s very little inconvenience and Anet offers you TWO ways around it. Buy the unlimited pass or open event bags and maybe you’ll get some 1-time use passes. I’ve gotten 3 so far and haven’t used one yet because VK isn’t inconvenient. The bank and TP are actually closer in VK than they were in LA. So are the asura gates.

I never parked in LAafter ~month 3 of playing, so I may very well be missing some uber convenience that others have experienced, but…

I park in Rata Sum because all the base services (including crafting) are closer together.

If I need Laurels, it’s a 30 second walk upstairs, or a 5-second waypoint+loading screen.

It takes a bit longer now to get to a Mystic Toilet now, granted… I go the WvWvW route (unless Dragonbrand doesn’t own the location) OR via Edge of the Mysts to Vigil Keep (since LA is under siege). The last one takes two loading screens: one about 20 secs, the second potentially 60 secs, depending upon how many people are in there.

Now I haven’t done it yet, but does teleporting to the airship require a loading screen? If so, is it shorter than the timeframes for the routes cited above?

I suspect the quoted poster above is right – this is temporary and for effect. I’m also hoarding three one-time passes both because thus far I’ve not needed one AND just in case I am wrong about the temporary thing.

Can you not use the forge in the Mists for PvE stuff? There is a forge there, isn’t there?

Capitalizing on convenience is how ArenaNet provides you with access to GW2 without a monthly subscription.

The amount of inconvenience created by the destruction of Lion’s Arch (and thus the subsequent removal of a central hub with all services) is minor. I get that the introduction of an inconvenience is much more irritating that the introduction of a convenience, but nothing is available behind the paywall that is not available for free on this side of the paywall.

Furthermore, we have no idea if the current state is going to be permanent (I would wager it won’t be, once the Living Story wraps up), so until we have an answer to that question, this “discussion” ranges between angry, irrational tirades against evil corporations and purely hypothetical scenarios that we have no way of knowing if they have any bearing on reality at all.

The long and short of it is this, ArenaNet will continue to capitalize on convenience because that is their business model. When things are inconvenient or become inconvenient you will have the following options:
1. Pay for convenience.
2. Find a subscription-based game where convenience is what you pay for each month.
3. Adapt your play time to accommodate the inconvenience.

So much whining. I suppose you’ve forgotten that all the people who build and support this game you spend countless hours entertaining yourself with need to feed their families?

If the convenience of it having everything in 1 place is really so important to you I don’t see a 1-time $12.50 to be much of an expense at all after the amount of time its been since this game was released. Seems like competitors charge that on a monthly basis for the right to be entertained. Are you not entertained?!?!?!?!

The long and short of it is this, ArenaNet will continue to capitalize on convenience because that is their business model. When things are inconvenient or become inconvenient you will have the following options:
1. Pay for convenience.
2. Find a subscription-based game where convenience is what you pay for each month.
3. Adapt your play time to accommodate the inconvenience.

Which is interesting since GW1 didn’t charge a cent for convenience. I suppose that the developers of GW1 are not the same as GW2 since they are going to nickel and dime it’s playerbase into the new era of micro transaction hell.
So, instead of making the playerbase happy and content, they will enforce micro transactions until players either submit or become frustrated and uninstall.
Perhaps not the best of business strategies.

Stormcrow.7513:

Which is interesting since GW1 didn’t charge a cent for convenience. I suppose that the developers of GW1 are not the same as GW2 since they are going to nickel and dime it’s playerbase into the new era of micro transaction hell.
So, instead of making the playerbase happy and content, they will enforce micro transactions until players either submit or become frustrated and uninstall.
Perhaps not the best of business strategies.

GW1 was during the era when free to play was a new concept, still in its infancy. Today, the model has been tweaked so that it provides a lot of profit without necessarily becoming “P2W”.

This convenience item does mark a new territory for ArenaNet, but whether they venture further or back off won’t be determined by posts on the forums by a handful of players (I know that we on the forums like to think we speak for everyone, but we really are a minute minority of the total playerbase) but by the volume of sales.

People, in general, are fairly lazy and crave the dopamine fix that comes from instant gratification. While some players may be mad enough to leave the game, those players are not only a minority, they also tend to be the same players who don’t buy many things with real money.

Kal Spiro.9745:

KarateKid.5648:

Seras.5702:

The only thing missing from Vigil Keep that was in LA are the crafting stations. But truth be told, LA was not convenient for crafting anyway. I’ve always done my crafting in Rata Sum because the crafting stations are closest to the bank & TP.

There are asura gates to all major cities in VK, just like they were in LA. And if you go thru the LA portals that’re in the major cities, they take you to VK.

Even if LA is gone for good, the Vigil Keep is a hastily thrown together refugee outpost (in game terms, not developer terms). Give Tyrians a few weeks/months to recoil from the sudden attack on LA, fight Scarlet, and begin a new city. Give it time and we might see a new city to replace LA, the expansion of the various Order headquarters, a new push into Southsun that results in the creation of a new grand city. Or maybe Anet is just sick of everyone afk-ing in one place and has plans to make all of Tyria more appealing to visit.

You can’t whine about inconvenience when there’s very little inconvenience and Anet offers you TWO ways around it. Buy the unlimited pass or open event bags and maybe you’ll get some 1-time use passes. I’ve gotten 3 so far and haven’t used one yet because VK isn’t inconvenient. The bank and TP are actually closer in VK than they were in LA. So are the asura gates.

I never parked in LAafter ~month 3 of playing, so I may very well be missing some uber convenience that others have experienced, but…

I park in Rata Sum because all the base services (including crafting) are closer together.

If I need Laurels, it’s a 30 second walk upstairs, or a 5-second waypoint+loading screen.

It takes a bit longer now to get to a Mystic Toilet now, granted… I go the WvWvW route (unless Dragonbrand doesn’t own the location) OR via Edge of the Mysts to Vigil Keep (since LA is under siege). The last one takes two loading screens: one about 20 secs, the second potentially 60 secs, depending upon how many people are in there.

Now I haven’t done it yet, but does teleporting to the airship require a loading screen? If so, is it shorter than the timeframes for the routes cited above?

I suspect the quoted poster above is right – this is temporary and for effect. I’m also hoarding three one-time passes both because thus far I’ve not needed one AND just in case I am wrong about the temporary thing.

Can you not use the forge in the Mists for PvE stuff? There is a forge there, isn’t there?

Hmmm, dunno… hadn’t tried that.

Which points out another benefit of this creative destruction – I’ve at least figured out what else is in the various play mode locations. I also found that vendors offer significantly different wares (whereas I had assumed there were no major differences).

KarateKid.5648:

Hmmm, dunno… hadn’t tried that.

Which points out another benefit of this creative destruction – I’ve at least figured out what else is in the various play mode locations. I also found that vendors offer significantly different wares (whereas I had assumed there were no major differences).

Yes you can use the forge in the mists just as any other…

GW2 living story event gives away (GIVES AWAY) free passes to the airship from bags from the event. So, to re-cap, they GIVE AWAY access to this thing, which offers super convenience if you just play the game, and some of you still complain that they also offer a 100% lifetime guarantee entrance ticket IF you CHOOSE to pay for it. Not have to, but choose to.

On top of that, they make it so that more people might have to also go to other city hubs (which people asked for this as well in some of the forums as many city hubs were feeling dead), and you still complain because that means you have to take a few seconds to port there as opposed to taking twice as much time to run across LA.

I honestly do not understand all of the outrage over something that is being given to you. But let me guess, you also think that development of new content every 2 weeks and the people that do this work don’t need to get paid either?

The mist forge in PvP is only for pvp items. Borderlands has everything, but it’s very spread out, it would take you far less time to do everything you needed to do in either the queens (whatever it was called) or the airship, simply due to proximity. Being a largely (based on majority of people i know and the B2P model idea) casual player base, catering to an audience of people with limited time to play only makes sense. The airship is really a very good convenience item.

My personal take is and will continue to be, the fact that LA had everything a player could want/need (albeit spread out), is what the drawn was to the town to begin with. Removing that and supplementing it with a buy item seems shady. Adding the fairly regular drop of the passes to the loot table feels like a dealer giving you a taste, only to sell you on it when you’re hooked. It really all comes down to perceived intent versus actual intent. If enough people think it’s shady, well regardless of actual intent, that’s what can really hurt sales.