Guild Wars 2

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The biggest problem here is you dont get hit by YOUR condition. You get hit by everyones conditions. So I get punished for other people not paying attention to the boss mechanics.

As a condition user since day 1 I do feel the pain of conditions being useless, it cuts my dps in half. But the killer is i’ll get burned, 7 stacks of bleed, 5 stacks of confusion, poisoned, and 3 stacks of torment. I dont even have a way to inflict torment, burn, or poison on the weapons i’m using.

Actually it does seem limited to your own conditions, but with a few problems: combo effects are applied on the caster of the finisher, so random poison/fire fields will hurt the wrong people. And then there’s guardians for burning, and some trolls seem to be running venomshare thief for torment+chill+immobilise…

Dalanor.5387:

This logic fails kitten the fact that every condi skill has a direct damage part while not every direct damaging skill has conditions on it.
Swap weapons and try to be effective.

Except some condi skills don’t have direct damage (at least glamour mesmer and other fields), and the damage that is dealt is abysmal.

And what about my crit suggestion? Or just throw in a token healing aura that can sustain anyone attacking in dire/rabid gear.

Walhalla.5473:

The Assault Knight has two Modes. In the first Mode he is really an anti condition kitten but in the second mode he weakens more the more conditions are on him.

Also one of the bosses in Breachmaker is impossible without conditions

Hm. Which one?

As a mesmer, I am running GS/Staff; when their condi reflection is up I GS the thing, throwing out berserker and spatial surging him. When his condi reflection goes down, I switch to staff.

But not for the conditions. As we know, in zergs, the conditions hit max stacks pretty fast. I use Staff for the Warlock, who does more damage the more conditions are on it.

With all the AoE, they don’t generally last very long, but sometimes they get lucky and stay up quite some time. Not sure why precisely, but I’m not complaining when it happens.

With these battles, I’m actually even running a mantra build. Figured the AoE heals and other stuff might help the group out some.

Photoloss.4817:

By the logic of most retorts it would be perfectly fine if Anet made a boss that reflected every crit back at its source, or even just all Power damage. “you can switch to dire gear, cry moah!”, “respec, pick the lowest dps weapons with the highest condi output”

Hrm, not directly (having a second gear-set is a tall order, carrying extra weapons is already expected among decent players due to specific skills on each weapon).
But in general, I’d like that.

We had a mob specifically punish Berserker setups during the worm. Heavy, high-damage AE stomp which was easily survivable with some toughness/vit/healing, coupled with a near-immunity to direct damage. However the downside here is that zerker-specs cannot weapon-swap to fight those.

So what we’d need is basically a boss which disregards all crit damage (you only hit for base damage) but takes extra damage from conditions based both on condition damage and on crit damage. In other words, a Zerker spec player would have to swap to a condition weapon to not feel entirely useless.

Carighan.6758:

Hrm, not directly (having a second gear-set is a tall order, carrying extra weapons is already expected among decent players due to specific skills on each weapon).
But in general, I’d like that.

We had a mob specifically punish Berserker setups during the worm. Heavy, high-damage AE stomp which was easily survivable with some toughness/vit/healing, coupled with a near-immunity to direct damage. However the downside here is that zerker-specs cannot weapon-swap to fight those.

So what we’d need is basically a boss which disregards all crit damage (you only hit for base damage) but takes extra damage from conditions based both on condition damage and on crit damage. In other words, a Zerker spec player would have to swap to a condition weapon to not feel entirely useless.

Many things could be made to work, what I said wasn’t an honest suggestion at bugnet but a mirror of what condi specs get during this fight.

The problem with the worm is it’s meant to be the most hardcore “raid” content to date, and should thus have effects that consider all playstyles. This is the finale of the “living” story and is aimed at the entire PvE playerbase.

Another thing they should add is “tag by proxy”: you buff/heal/cleanse allies, you get a % of their tag credit. Less need to run full zerk egoistic dps, good incentive to actually support allies.

And I for one wouldn’t be complaining if the alternate mode was “immune to crits and returns 50% of direct damage taken” as opposed to “spam condi so zerkers can do more damage”.

Morfedel.4165:

As a mesmer, I am running GS/Staff; when their condi reflection is up I GS the thing, throwing out berserker and spatial surging him. When his condi reflection goes down, I switch to staff.

But not for the conditions. As we know, in zergs, the conditions hit max stacks pretty fast. I use Staff for the Warlock, who does more damage the more conditions are on it.

With all the AoE, they don’t generally last very long, but sometimes they get lucky and stay up quite some time. Not sure why precisely, but I’m not complaining when it happens.

The difference is that the GS doesn’t count as a projectile. My grenades, and I’m berserker geared, thrown me fire, 10/15 stacks of bleed, poison, confusion…. And I’m like, wut?

Well, in the condi phase they could have done something like this instead of damage reduction a “Reflect 50% of incoming direct damage. Reflect 1% less for every condition on the Knight”

Would also have helped with symmetry :P

Kanto.1659:

The difference is that the GS doesn’t count as a projectile. My grenades, and I’m berserker geared, thrown me fire, 10/15 stacks of bleed, poison, confusion…. And I’m like, wut?

Grenade #1 isn’t a finisher either, thus perfectly safe by itself. Mesmer GS owns itself pretty hard when using #2 and #4, especially if you have Sharper Images (you know, a Bleed on crit minor trait, in the Precision+Critdamage line)

Where does a finisher enter the equation? I use #1 because of the condition reflection, I still get a tremendous amount of bleeds, burning (?), confusion and poison.

Photoloss.4817:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The biggest problem here is you dont get hit by YOUR condition. You get hit by everyones conditions. So I get punished for other people not paying attention to the boss mechanics.

As a condition user since day 1 I do feel the pain of conditions being useless, it cuts my dps in half. But the killer is i’ll get burned, 7 stacks of bleed, 5 stacks of confusion, poisoned, and 3 stacks of torment. I dont even have a way to inflict torment, burn, or poison on the weapons i’m using.

Actually it does seem limited to your own conditions, but with a few problems: combo effects are applied on the caster of the finisher, so random poison/fire fields will hurt the wrong people. And then there’s guardians for burning, and some trolls seem to be running venomshare thief for torment+chill+immobilise…

It is not your own conditions that get reflected. It seems that any incoming condition is reflected back as a projectile.

For example, I am running a power necro, using Axe/Focus and Dagger/Dagger with a 30/10/0/0/30 spec (Close to Death, not Dhuumfire). I spent large portions of the fight with burning, 10+ stacks of bleeds, and poison on me. I wouldn’t be getting THAT many bleeds (mine are only 3 seconds long and necro isn’t known for fast attack rates) and I have 0 methods of applying Poison, including through combos as my build has 0 finishers (only fields are dark fields, so not even from there). In addition, I was getting the large and frequent stacks when I was in melee. Longer range gets nothing.

This mechanic is FUBAR.

Kanto.1659:

The difference is that the GS doesn’t count as a projectile. My grenades, and I’m berserker geared, thrown me fire, 10/15 stacks of bleed, poison, confusion…. And I’m like, wut?

If you’re Berserker-setup, you probably use a Rifle?
Ok, so press Grenade Kit button. Done. Can now fight the Knight properly.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It is not your own conditions that get reflected. It seems that any incoming condition is reflected back as a projectile.

Hrm, cannot agree with that, sorry. After consistently suffering Burning while using a Greatsword (as a Mesmer) yesterday, in the night I did some experimenting, and here’s what I found:

• All conditions your skills apply get reflected to you.
• All conditions your traits apply get reflected to you.
• All combo-field conditions triggered by you get reflected to you.
• All pet-based conditions get reflected to you.

That’s it.
Didn’t once managed to eat any condition which didn’t fit those four categories, and I needed those four to explain all the conditions I had. So for now, that’s what I’m going with.

If LoS via projectiles were an issue, me as an asura standing at 1200 should not have consistently gotten each and every single condition reflected. For example, not once have I managed to throw a Mirror Blade and not taken 3 Vulnerability stacks.

Carighan.6758:

Hrm, cannot agree with that, sorry. After consistently suffering Burning while using a Greatsword (as a Mesmer) yesterday, in the night I did some experimenting, and here’s what I found:

• All conditions your skills apply get reflected to you.
• All conditions your traits apply get reflected to you.
• All combo-field conditions triggered by you get reflected to you.
• All pet-based conditions get reflected to you.

That’s it.

That is not it. Again, I spent large portions of the fight with Poison on me, but my build has 0 ability to even cause poison. No traits, runes, sigils, skills, or combos can possibly produce Poison, and I’m pretty certain the boss itself doesn’t cause Poison. Venomshare is likewise not an option as no icon ever appeared on my buff bar.

However, I do run Sigil of Ice on my axe, and I never got chilled. At all.

However this mechanic works, it is not “reflect conditions back to the one that caused them”.

Condition reflect seems to be a bit random, poison and blind isn’t speciality for an Ele, however i often get it on me and Fireball doesn’t even a finisher.

Carighan.6758:

Kanto.1659:

The difference is that the GS doesn’t count as a projectile. My grenades, and I’m berserker geared, thrown me fire, 10/15 stacks of bleed, poison, confusion…. And I’m like, wut?

If you’re Berserker-setup, you probably use a Rifle?
Ok, so press Grenade Kit button. Done. Can now fight the Knight properly.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It is not your own conditions that get reflected. It seems that any incoming condition is reflected back as a projectile.

Hrm, cannot agree with that, sorry. After consistently suffering Burning while using a Greatsword (as a Mesmer) yesterday, in the night I did some experimenting, and here’s what I found:

• All conditions your skills apply get reflected to you.
• All conditions your traits apply get reflected to you.
• All combo-field conditions triggered by you get reflected to you.
• All pet-based conditions get reflected to you.

That’s it.
Didn’t once managed to eat any condition which didn’t fit those four categories, and I needed those four to explain all the conditions I had. So for now, that’s what I’m going with.

If LoS via projectiles were an issue, me as an asura standing at 1200 should not have consistently gotten each and every single condition reflected. For example, not once have I managed to throw a Mirror Blade and not taken 3 Vulnerability stacks.

Wrong.

Grenade 1 is neither a projectile finisher nor a blast finished. What it does have is chance to bleed and giving vulnerability from traits (both baked in, cannot be removed, and to do so I would need to spec something else as Grenadier without the extra grenade is not worth it).

Yet (I paid attention this time just for this thread), I got the main culprits (bleed, burn, confusion poison) withe some peculiar ones (immobilize, cripple, weakness, chill).

Of course, in such numbers that my HP was plummeting. Can be done though. Use heal, then use my condition remover elixir during my heal’s CD. Alternating both leaves me able to continue fighting with a judicious application of 66% leech food and Regeneration.

At this point the only thing I would need to try (but one day into the patch and I’m already bored of it) is to remove all traits that add conditions and just spam rifle to see if projectiles add conditions or if it is the act of applying conditions which applies random conditions.

The mechanic probably wouldn’t be so bad if the game was better designed for it.

As things stand, adapting to these sorts of contrivances is inherently clumsy and serves more to highlight weaknesses in the gameplay scheme than offer actual challenges to player skill.

And is it really “fun”?

I don’t think so.

village idiot.1436:

Anet have failed miserably to address how ineffective conditions are in pve due to condition caps. This is a slap in the face.

Takes a drink

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It appears that the new bosses are completely immune to condition dmg and instantly reflects it back to you.

I spent about 500g, and a month of my time fitting my necro out to be a condition user. I have to literally stand at the boss OOC for 10+ minutes and do nothing. My options seem to be respec or be worthless.

If you want to make things that are strong against conditions then just make them immune, the reflect is crippling to me, every weapon I own and even my auto-attack applies conditions, my only option is standing there OOC for most of the fight.

I saw my first knight just 2 minutes ago. And logged off. If Anet doesn’t want me to play my favourite profession (ranger), then I won’t play.

Photoloss.4817:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The biggest problem here is you dont get hit by YOUR condition. You get hit by everyones conditions. So I get punished for other people not paying attention to the boss mechanics.

As a condition user since day 1 I do feel the pain of conditions being useless, it cuts my dps in half. But the killer is i’ll get burned, 7 stacks of bleed, 5 stacks of confusion, poisoned, and 3 stacks of torment. I dont even have a way to inflict torment, burn, or poison on the weapons i’m using.

Actually it does seem limited to your own conditions, but with a few problems: combo effects are applied on the caster of the finisher, so random poison/fire fields will hurt the wrong people. And then there’s guardians for burning, and some trolls seem to be running venomshare thief for torment+chill+immobilise…

Dalanor.5387:

This logic fails kitten the fact that every condi skill has a direct damage part while not every direct damaging skill has conditions on it.
Swap weapons and try to be effective.

Except some condi skills don’t have direct damage (at least glamour mesmer and other fields), and the damage that is dealt is abysmal.

And what about my crit suggestion? Or just throw in a token healing aura that can sustain anyone attacking in dire/rabid gear.

Actually I get hit with other people’s conditions too. I got hit with an immobilize for some reason and I never touched my Rifle #2 skill.

Kanto.1659:

Morfedel.4165:

As a mesmer, I am running GS/Staff; when their condi reflection is up I GS the thing, throwing out berserker and spatial surging him. When his condi reflection goes down, I switch to staff.

But not for the conditions. As we know, in zergs, the conditions hit max stacks pretty fast. I use Staff for the Warlock, who does more damage the more conditions are on it.

With all the AoE, they don’t generally last very long, but sometimes they get lucky and stay up quite some time. Not sure why precisely, but I’m not complaining when it happens.

The difference is that the GS doesn’t count as a projectile. My grenades, and I’m berserker geared, thrown me fire, 10/15 stacks of bleed, poison, confusion…. And I’m like, wut?

True, but you could equip another kit other than just grenades.

Or auto attack with rifle. Or go into melee and get one shot by the obscured knight. These are all options, yes.

Condition damage in PVE is badly broken, and this event only makes it more obvious. Since we do not have swappable equipment/trait setup slots in the user interface, this is a major flaw.

It isn’t worth it to be anything but power damage specced in PVE. The implementation of condition reflecting in this event implies that ANet doesn’t see this as a problem, since they actually chose to exacerbate it.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It appears that the new bosses are completely immune to condition dmg and instantly reflects it back to you.

I spent about 500g, and a month of my time fitting my necro out to be a condition user. I have to literally stand at the boss OOC for 10+ minutes and do nothing. My options seem to be respec or be worthless.

If you want to make things that are strong against conditions then just make them immune, the reflect is crippling to me, every weapon I own and even my auto-attack applies conditions, my only option is standing there OOC for most of the fight.

I saw my first knight just 2 minutes ago. And logged off. If Anet doesn’t want me to play my favourite profession (ranger), then I won’t play.

Are you unable to auto attack?

I do think it’s unfair to make condition build even more useless. Yes, one can go and retrait or buy new weapons, but that doesn’t change the fact that they continue to punish condition builds.

My most powerful auto-attack causes burning.

Usually I kinda roll with the punches, but I’m not really impressed with not being able to do condition damage.

Shiren.9532:

It doesn’t feel strategic, it just feels like they are saying “kitten off” to condition builds for 50% of the fight. Do they think we have builds that swap between direct damage and condition damage in the same build?

We could have different builds that we could swap between if they would give us a template system, it makes little sense to reconfigure your build to suit a specific mob or battle only to have to reconfigure it to be viable in the rest of the world for your playstyle. The only thing that makes sense is if they expect you to bring a toon that is capable direct damage to the fight which I guess is ok if you have more than one toon.

People in this thread are arguing two completely different things. Let me see if I can summarize:

Group 1: Just change all your traits, your armor and your weapons so that you can participate and be effective.

Group 2: I chose condition damage spec because I like conditions, I don’t think this fight is well designed because I can not perform my role in combat without being severely penalized. Please change the mechanics so that all types of players can particiapte.

Group 1: Stop whining, you can change your weapons, traits and play style to participate in this fight

Group 2: But that’s the problem, I want to play the way my class is designed and to use the gear I spent 3 months obtaining.

Group 1: Stop whining you can change your weapon and traits and still do 1% the dmg of zerker specs.

See where this is going… If your answer is for me to change my traits and gear then that is NOT a solution, please stop suggesting it. I did not grind out more than 1000g worth of gear and spend months trying different builds to find one I like just to be told to change it all if I want to play the game.

I do not understand this boss design. It is known that condition is already less viable and have issue in PvE, and Anet even mentioned about how they will try to improve the situation, yet they rolled out such a effect, just what are they thinking!?

If not all 3 Assault Knights have the anti-condition effect, we can at least split those who use direct damage and condition damage players to different Knights, or if there was certain mechanic installed in the fight that allows player to forcefully switch the Knight into phase 2 without the anti-condition effect, then I have no problem with this effect.

But the truth is harsh, there’s really nothing you can do about it. Fighting any of the 3 Knights will have the same result, you can’t do anything or can do only so little if the Knights won’t switch mode themselves.

Also those who said just respec is plainly stupid and selfish. Yes condition is more weak in PvE, but there’s nothing wrong if players still chose to play it, let alone being punished for it.

Just try to step into other’s shoes for once, imagine all 3 Knights got this anti-direct damage instead, and you run a full Berserker build, how would you feel?

Dalanor.5387:

Malediktus.9250:

Conditions were never viable in PVE, especially in zerg events, wonder when people learn it.

Agree, but people never learn just whine.
Also, engi has flamethrower.

ps: Didn’t tried it, but summons can be immune to aoe as against Golem Mark II.

We ALL know condition damage doesn’t work as well in PvE, you’d have to be a complete idiot to even think people complain because they don’t recognize that.

But just because you prefer to work around problems rather than address them does not mean the rest of us are required to follow suit.

People complain because they do recognize that the current state of condition damage is completely unacceptable; more the result of compounding mechanical failure than intelligent design. And it needs to be fixed, as immediately as possible. Nobody here cares that you prefer the path of least resistance. But there are those of us who actually want to see the game improved and diversified, and if you’re not going to help we’d appreciate if you at least shut-up and let us.

Blizt.3086:

Just try to step into other’s shoes for once, imagine all 3 Knights got this anti-direct damage instead, and you run a full Berserker build, how would you feel?

Tried condi build. Later realized power is better. Retraited. Now happy.

Dalanor.5387:

Blizt.3086:

Just try to step into other’s shoes for once, imagine all 3 Knights got this anti-direct damage instead, and you run a full Berserker build, how would you feel?

Tried condi build. Later realized power is better. Retraited. Now happy.

Good for you!
People should still be able to run condition builds without being punished for it.

VitalSuit.1980:

Engineers suffer from this as well, my primary ranged damage weapon (grenades) applies conditions. Even though I’m using a power build I suffer from the conditions.

Rifles, how do they work…

Taygus.4571:

Dalanor.5387:

Blizt.3086:

Just try to step into other’s shoes for once, imagine all 3 Knights got this anti-direct damage instead, and you run a full Berserker build, how would you feel?

Tried condi build. Later realized power is better. Retraited. Now happy.

Good for you!
People should still be able to run condition builds without being punished for it.

They can’t, not yet. Not until Anet fixes it. And I don’t mean this event. This event just makes condition appliers hurt themselves. In any other other content (even 5 man, less alone 150 people) condition builds are punishing their team maters by applying a wonderful 500 damage crits while their conditions slide off since even a 5 man group would top the condition cap, less alone 150.

I am usually a condition (DoT) lover even in games where DoTs are usually subpar since they need 12-20 seconds to do their damage while direct damage characters deal the same sort of damage in one swing, but GW2 is that one game where even that subpar existence of DoTs is brought to a whole new level.

Taygus.4571:

Dalanor.5387:

Blizt.3086:

Just try to step into other’s shoes for once, imagine all 3 Knights got this anti-direct damage instead, and you run a full Berserker build, how would you feel?

Tried condi build. Later realized power is better. Retraited. Now happy.

Good for you!
People should still be able to run condition builds without being punished for it.

Change weapons.

Rauderi.8706:

It really is disturbing that the devs refuse to acknowledge and adjust things for how people and zergs actually perform. When conditions are well more than half the game, why would they decide that reflecting them is a sane, fair option, especially when there are autoattacks that do it?

It’s bad enough that a heavy-CC build is generally crippled by champions, but hearing this just makes me question whether some devs need to be let go for some vacation time. Apparently, the two-week schedule is causing panic attacks that make things like the above seem like good ideas.

Because it’s all about adapting, im a condi engineer, but for these fights, i switch to PVT and get through it without too much trouble. This would be problematic for ppl who have not been able to craft multiple sets of gear though, i admit.

mark.3160:

Because it’s all about adapting, im a condi engineer, but for these fights, i switch to PVT and get through it without too much trouble. This would be problematic for ppl who have not been able to craft multiple sets of gear though, i admit.

And when did pure power-based dps specs ever have to adapt (to the extent of respeccing, not learning new telegraph animations)? Where was it prudent to bring lots of well-coordinated CC, boon removal, conditions etc? Which enemy has been completely impossible to beat with the intended number of players all in full zerker gear (or PVT if crit-immune)? Where are the bosses that require a 5-man group to output 2k aoe healing per second, or unblockable zerker one-shots you can actually survive and recover from by wearing PVT/clerics?

Never mind there is no gear to properly support CC/boons/other utility and they all work just as well in full zerk, except with boons you’ll actually want exotic runes instead of ruby orbs.

Against Aetherblade and Toxic spammers trying to cycle aoe removal is less effective than just killing them (outside of a huge zerg where conditions have <1s uptime anyway); any boon spammers outside of the LS reapply far too quickly to keep up except maybe dredge.

Basically, since release they’ve introduced gimmicky mechanics to encumber every single playstyle except maximising direct damage and now they’re trying to get rid of the “zerker meta”, well what else are we supposed to kill our enemies with?

1. Why are you bringing a condition build into PvE zergs? Even without the condition reflect, you’d be next to worthless.

2. The Assault Knights actually have 2 phases: 1 with condition reflection and 1 with condition susceptibility. Adjust your build and try again.

oh how i hoped they finally used their grey mass in their heads and actually use conditions to make the game more interesting, but nooooo, just make everything DPS like everything else…..

Seras.5702:

1. Why are you bringing a condition build into PvE zergs? Even without the condition reflect, you’d be next to worthless.

2. The Assault Knights actually have 2 phases: 1 with condition reflection and 1 with condition susceptibility. Adjust your build and try again.

Because conditions are in game, would it not be better to ask anet to make them viable rather than continuously making them useless?

Taygus.4571:

Seras.5702:

1. Why are you bringing a condition build into PvE zergs? Even without the condition reflect, you’d be next to worthless.

2. The Assault Knights actually have 2 phases: 1 with condition reflection and 1 with condition susceptibility. Adjust your build and try again.

Because conditions are in game, would it not be better to ask anet to make them viable rather than continuously making them useless?

That argument has been around for over a year. That’s not what the conversation is about. It’s about the Assault Knights, specifically.

And, as I mentioned, they have 2 phases. In the 2nd phase, being condition specced stacks a debuff on them making them more susceptible to damage. So Anet did add a mechanic to these fights making conditions useful. You just have to be smart about it.

As an Engi, I have to be doubly-careful since my autoattacks add conditions even tho I’m specced power. I adjusted. So too should everyone.

The whole point of this anti condi and anti projectile mechanic is to teach people to adapt, because ANet want to improve the quality of the average player so that they can make more challenging content.

Complaining and refusing to pick up another set of gear, or refusing to drop your ranged weapon makes this impossible and implies you want them to just make 111111 zerg events rather than coordinated zerg events.

For the record, I’m not playing WvW since I haven’t picked up appropriate gear for it, so it would be nice if you could do your servers the courtesy to pick up the right gear before taking part in the event.

Seras.5702:

Taygus.4571:

Seras.5702:

1. Why are you bringing a condition build into PvE zergs? Even without the condition reflect, you’d be next to worthless.

2. The Assault Knights actually have 2 phases: 1 with condition reflection and 1 with condition susceptibility. Adjust your build and try again.

Because conditions are in game, would it not be better to ask anet to make them viable rather than continuously making them useless?

That argument has been around for over a year. That’s not what the conversation is about. It’s about the Assault Knights, specifically.

And, as I mentioned, they have 2 phases. In the 2nd phase, being condition specced stacks a debuff on them making them more susceptible to damage. So Anet did add a mechanic to these fights making conditions useful. You just have to be smart about it.

No, they did not. For one, that debuff doesn’t care one whit about the strength of the conditions applied, so condition builds are still not even advantegous. Two, Zerker builds apply conditions through auto attacks and crits like mad, so all of the conditions the group needs are applied via Zerkers.

The net result: even in the “conditions are wanted” phases, condition builds are still useless and zerkers are all that’s desirable.

hendo.1940:

The whole point of this anti condi and anti projectile mechanic is to teach people to adapt, because ANet want to improve the quality of the average player so that they can make more challenging content.

The problem with this is that it’s sending the wrong message. It’s saying “conditions will never be useful, throw them away.” It’s better to say “attack here to make conditions work” or “disable this to disable the reflect” than it is to say “equip a weapon you’re not built for, most of your traits are now useless or actively harmful.”

In short, Anet needs to improve their own quality if they want the playerbase to react in kind. Using a sledgehammer where they need a screwdriver is not a good thing.

hendo.1940:

refusing to drop your ranged weapon

This implies that the person realized the assault knights are laughable at range. It’s actually smart to attack them in this way.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Seras.5702:

Taygus.4571:

Seras.5702:

1. Why are you bringing a condition build into PvE zergs? Even without the condition reflect, you’d be next to worthless.

2. The Assault Knights actually have 2 phases: 1 with condition reflection and 1 with condition susceptibility. Adjust your build and try again.

Because conditions are in game, would it not be better to ask anet to make them viable rather than continuously making them useless?

That argument has been around for over a year. That’s not what the conversation is about. It’s about the Assault Knights, specifically.

And, as I mentioned, they have 2 phases. In the 2nd phase, being condition specced stacks a debuff on them making them more susceptible to damage. So Anet did add a mechanic to these fights making conditions useful. You just have to be smart about it.

No, they did not. For one, that debuff doesn’t care one whit about the strength of the conditions applied, so condition builds are still not even advantegous. Two, Zerker builds apply conditions through auto attacks and crits like mad, so all of the conditions the group needs are applied via Zerkers.

The net result: even in the “conditions are wanted” phases, condition builds are still useless and zerkers are all that’s desirable.

This ^^^^.

Anet keeps saying they want to encourage various build, and yet they have events/content that keeps pushing one type of build.

hendo.1940:

The whole point of this anti condi and anti projectile mechanic is to teach people to adapt, because ANet want to improve the quality of the average player so that they can make more challenging content.

Complaining and refusing to pick up another set of gear, or refusing to drop your ranged weapon makes this impossible and implies you want them to just make 111111 zerg events rather than coordinated zerg events.

For the record, I’m not playing WvW since I haven’t picked up appropriate gear for it, so it would be nice if you could do your servers the courtesy to pick up the right gear before taking part in the event.

The problem with that is melee zerk gear is already the meta and generally accepted as the best choice. So instead of it saying to me that I should be able to do both of these things, it says to me that the rest of the community is right and this build you have made yourself is worthless and you should feel bad because you are not contributing.

Maybe if anet included the ability to change traits easily enough, there might be an argument that you can change, but as it stands right now it just sounds to me that anet is saying “You know these stats that you’ve invested your time and money into that have been out since launch? That’s kittening worthless.”

Many builds that aren’t condition builds still apply conditions passively (such as on crit) to proc other effects (such as bonus damage when bleeding). For some classes to completely avoid these effects not only gimps their dps but also their fun.

The issue with the condition reflect is it is up for waaaaaaay too long, leaving people who do ANY condition damage (even if not the focus of their build) sitting around with their thumb up their …. for a huge portion of the fight. The reflect should be more intermittent and random when it comes up to allow for you to react to it rather than just have to afk that portion of the fight.

Can you work around it? sure. Does it add fun, skill or anything interesting to the fight? defiantly not. It’s a bad design that is not fun in any shape or form, and when a game isn’t fun they log out and play something that is.

Well, I just went into the assault knight fight with a guardian. I can confirm you get other people’s conditions from reflect. It will even list who made that condition on the tooltip. That said, it will only happen if you inflict a condition.

All in all, I can’t say this mechanic was well done.

This sucks as a Mesmer. You have to go GS and just auto attack. Mirror blade is a projectile and will apply combo finishers to yourself. Clones stack bleeds and zerker pets stack bleeds and cripple. The only weapon that doesn’t apply conditions and doesn’t produce clones is GS auto attack.

Conditions have been terrible/sub par in PvE since this game went live.

The issue has never been fixed or addressed.

So I’m not sure how any of this with these new encounters surprised you people.

Taygus.4571:

Good for you!
People should still be able to run condition builds without being punished for it.

Because 3 bossmobs in a temporary content are totally worth this thread…

Would you also say that the reasoning you presented applies to other ability-types?
As in, are mobs which do not apply conditions not ok because they make condition-cleansing abilities useless? Are mobs which steal boons not ok because they punish abilities which apply boons?