Guild Wars 2

lordkrall.7241:

But there is a rather major issue there: She became Scarlet before GW2 in-game timeline even starts, rather long before even (she become Scarlet around 1321AE, GW2 Personal Story starts in 1325AE and the Living Story in 1326AE with the current year being 1327AE), so HOW would we be able to meet her before that?

If this is true, then she should have been a part of the lore at launch. Like I said, a creature with her intelligence and capabilities would become a Tyrian celebrity, or at least a legend among the scholars at Rata Sum.

PeterThomas.7243:

lordkrall.7241:

But there is a rather major issue there: She became Scarlet before GW2 in-game timeline even starts, rather long before even (she become Scarlet around 1321AE, GW2 Personal Story starts in 1325AE and the Living Story in 1326AE with the current year being 1327AE), so HOW would we be able to meet her before that?

If this is true, then she should have been a part of the lore at launch. Like I said, a creature with her intelligence and capabilities would become a Tyrian celebrity.

The biggest problem that I have is not that we didn’t know her, but that we didn’t even know that the asuran colleges accepted other races. Actually, Rata Sum’s society seems quite xenophobic. She is the only one that we know that was accepted by the colleges (and by all of them). Out of all of her seemingly impossible feats, this is the one that I find the hardest to accept. There is absolutely no character in the entire game as talented and skillful as her, not even close, and that annoys be a bit. It feels unrealistic for the game standards.

PeterThomas.7243:

If this is true, then she should have been a part of the lore at launch. Like I said, a creature with her intelligence and capabilities would become a Tyrian celebrity, or at least a legend among the scholars at Rata Sum.

That does of course depend.
One could defend the lack of recognition simply with the fact that the Asura are ashamed that they are being over-shined by a salad. Asura does seem to have issues with other races being better than them at some things after all.

lordkrall.7241:

PeterThomas.7243:

If this is true, then she should have been a part of the lore at launch. Like I said, a creature with her intelligence and capabilities would become a Tyrian celebrity, or at least a legend among the scholars at Rata Sum.

That does of course depend.
One could defend the lack of recognition simply with the fact that the Asura are ashamed that they are being over-shined by a salad. Asura does seem to have issues with other races being better than them at some things after all.

Sure, but that doesn’t explain why we didn’t hear about her from folks at the Black Citadel or at Hoelbrak. Somehow Scarlet kept the lid on all of these groups of people? Not even one person mentioned her at any time? Come on.

Keep in mind it would’ve actually benefitted the Living Story (and the lore in general) to make mention of Scarlet before unveiling her as a villain. It’s a device used in storytelling called foreshadowing and is generally considered a good thing to help viewers connect present events to past ones.

So what’s the more likely scenario: We hadn’t heard about her at all because she’s just really, really good at keeping herself unnoticed across all cultures and institutions, or the writers simply didn’t think things through?

Occam’s Razor, my friend.

Well they DID mention her (and hinted about her) quite some time before she was actually revealed.

The first time we had hints about here was back during Flame and Frost and that is about a year ago. And that was about half a year before she was officially revealed.

And all those people that she worked with might very well had several promising students, and thus wouldn’t single her out specifically until she started surfacing again. Especially since it is rather many years between those situations and today.

Alleluia.1320:

ChaosKirin.1328:

I get this feeling that if Scarlet were male, no one would have a problem with her at all.

I mean, she’s the equivalent to many other male characters that have stormed across canons in the past. The Joker is mentioned in that massively article. She is like the Reavers in Firefly – at first, no reason is given for their existence, but people are terrified of them nevertheless. She’s Crais from Farscape. John Locke from LOST. Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII. Magneto from the X-Men.

There is no difference between her and any other villain that has ever existed, except that she’s female.

Being a powerful woman does not automatically make you a bad character/Mary Sue/retcon bait. In fact, I applaud ANet for making the main villain female, rather than yet another male villain.

And I bet if a good portion of the people mentally rewrote her character as male, they would have no problem with her.

I think your personal biases are clouding your views here.

I had a response here, but it was fairly inflammatory, so I’m removing it.

Where I see a character with potential and meaning – after all, the idea is that this character has come out of nowhere because she’s essentially a dragon’s puppet – everyone else sees a Sue. I don’t understand.

Scarlet is the foreshadowing you’re all looking for. Scarlet is the beginning of the story. She is not the big Bad Guy. She is the precursor for what many people believe is a dragon.

And that’s why you haven’t heard of her before in lore. She is essentially nothing but a blip in the big picture. And that is why she is well-written. She’ll die in obscurity, having heralded the coming of an Elder Dragon. I don’t care who. Primordus. Mordremoth. Whichever.

Not every first chapter has to start with a whisper. And if you look at the story and everything pertaining to it, you will see that this was all clearly planned from the start.

PeterThomas.7243:

ChaosKirin.1328:

Okay, that sounds like a decent character. So what about Scarlet is radically different so that she’s a bad character?

The difference is that you really have to stretch believability in order to swallow everything related to Scarlet, whether it be her actions or backstory.

A few examples:

- Why do her dredge, flame legion, krait and nightmare court armies seem to pledge complete and undying loyalty to her? Aren’t there any internal power struggles? Betrayals? No? Why not? They have been bullied, pushed around, manipulated, lied to or led into slaughter. Why aren’t any of them upset and why aren’t any of them fighting back?

- Some of the alliances don’t make any sense in the first place. The Nightmare Court have absolutely no reason to ally with Scarlet, let alone the Krait, or at least none that’s been explained in any detail. The Krait allying with Scarlet sort of made sense because Scarlet promised them a prophet, but now that Scarlet has failed to deliver their prophet to them (due to the players killing it), why are they still blindly following her?

- As far as has been revealed to us, the Aetherblades are only allied with Scarlet because she “threatened to kill them”. In exchange, they have pledged their undying loyalty and their entire fleet of airships to her, not to mention allowing her to use them in any way she wishes, even if it results in them getting wholesale slaughtered. Really? Does this make sense? She apparently had the Aetherblades wrapped around her finger even before she acquired her army clockwork soldiers, so what means did she have at her disposal to threaten to kill them all? And if she had some means of killing them all, that would be a pretty powerful weapon. Why would she need clockwork soldiers or a mega-toxin in the first place? Furthermore, now that she can manifest UFO-style portals in the air that drop giant robots out of the sky, why does she even need the Aetherblades or their ships anymore? Why doesn’t she just drop one marionette on Lion’s Arch and be done with it?

- The fact that she’s a Sylvari that has graduated from all of the colleges at Rata Sum (which is apparently a feat that not even a single Asura has accomplished) is preposterous. The Asura are insular, racist, and supremacist. The only explanation we’ve been given so far as to why they let her do this was that “they were studying her”. Really? A race of super geniuses would grant a self-serving outsider access to their race’s best-kept secrets just so they could study her? And after the fact they let her get away? Why? Why make an exception for her? It doesn’t make sense.

- The fact that she traipsed around the globe and studied with willing teachers at the Black Citadel is equally preposterous. The Charr are just as wary of outsiders as the Asura are. Studying at Hoelbrak is a bit more feasible, but really… What are the chances of anybody studying at Rata Sum, The Black Citadel, Hoelbrak and with the Inquest all within a short time? She’s not a firstborn, so she’s in her early twenties. The Wiki says she stayed in the grove for eight years, so that only gives her about twelve years to earn these degrees, which seems implausible on its own. Then she ends up passing Statics and Dynamics within a single year. Really? If that’s the case, she’d be a freaking celebrity; the Einstein of Tyria, if you will. But we didn’t hear ANYTHING about her before she appeared suddenly at the Queen’s Jubilee. Why not?

- Logistics: Where did the Krait and Nightmare court acquire the lumber to build the Tower of Nightmares? If there’s a legitimate answer, why didn’t anybody notice the forests were disappearing en masse? Where did she get the raw materials for the marionette? Who mined them? Who assembled it? If she assembled it all on her own, that means she has godlike powers that no other character in the entire game has had aside from the Six Gods themselves, and is preposterous. If her allies assembled it, wouldn’t that take a long time? And after all that work, why would they test it in an unpopulated area instead of unleashing it on Scarlet’s true target (Lion’s Arch)?

- The Durmand Priory, who are specialists at acquiring knowledge, failed to notice that Scarlet had a secret lair right under their feet. Seriously?

It comes down to the fact that there are too many leaps of faith required to take the character seriously.

I find this very amusing since I (sadly) think that the lore of gw2 is very childish in part for is content and in part bacause of how the plot itself is implemented (as you pointed out).
My only hope is that some really good writing in the near future will alleviate this situation.

ChaosKirin.1328:

Where I see a character with potential and meaning – after all, the idea is that this character has come out of nowhere because she’s essentially a dragon’s puppet – everyone else sees a Sue. I don’t understand.

Scarlet is the foreshadowing you’re all looking for. Scarlet is the beginning of the story. She is not the big Bad Guy. She is the precursor for what many people believe is a dragon.

And that’s why you haven’t heard of her before in lore. She is essentially nothing but a blip in the big picture. And that is why she is well-written. She’ll die in obscurity, having heralded the coming of an Elder Dragon. I don’t care who. Primordus. Mordremoth. Whichever.

Not every first chapter has to start with a whisper. And if you look at the story and everything pertaining to it, you will see that this was all clearly planned from the start.

All of this is speculation. We still have no definite answer as to whether it’s a dragon or not.

In fact, it’s probably not a dragon, seeing as how Arenanet stated that “one in every ten thousand people who have guessed what it is have got it right”. Seeing as how EVERYBODY thinks it’s a dragon, it’s probably not a dragon.

As to why Scarlet remains a badly written character, well… I already ranted about that earlier in the thread (and provided examples), so I will decline to do so here. The fact that she’s foreshadowing for something larger is irrelevant.

Spiuk.8421:

Can’t wait to see that ugly LA 2.0 blown up.

Good riddance!

This, This so much. Can’t wait to see it gone.

PeterThomas.7243:

In fact, it’s probably not a dragon, seeing as how Arenanet stated that “one in every ten thousand people who have guessed what it is have got it right”. Seeing as how EVERYBODY thinks it’s a dragon, it’s probably not a dragon.

I’d hazard a guess that this is another ANet hyperbole that’s just meant to excite us (not to be taken literally), but I guess we’ll see tomorrow.

(I’m still rooting for Lazarus.)

PeterThomas.7243:

In fact, it’s probably not a dragon, seeing as how Arenanet stated that “one in every ten thousand people who have guessed what it is have got it right”. Seeing as how EVERYBODY thinks it’s a dragon, it’s probably not a dragon.

To be fair they said that rather long before the whole “it is a dragon behind it” way of thinking was big.

Back when they said it it was only one or two people on these forums that suggested that theory, and they were repeatedly shot down and proven “wrong”.

Change the world. Let it happen. The writing has improved, the reveal might be amazing, and a permanent change to Tyria might be just the thing to legitimize Scarlet for some. Her dastardly deeds have been sufficient to alter Kessex, pieces of her armies and tech litter the world, and she’s plotting to attack our major hub city. That’s a pretty effective evil-doer. To fend her off without any lasting scars would be even more TV-land kid-friendly. Realism is gritty and to win a war that’s been waging for a year should require sacrifice.

I’ve largely stopped playing Fractals after Scarlet made her appearance there…so it depends…does ArenaNet wanna keep their players?

Gabby.3205:

She is the only one that we know that was accepted by the colleges (and by all of them). Out of all of her seemingly impossible feats, this is the one that I find the hardest to accept. There is absolutely no character in the entire game as talented and skillful as her, not even close, and that annoys be a bit. It feels unrealistic for the game standards.

It was the first thing that annoyed me about her, and instead of turning it into a rumor, they decided to stick with it.

Scarlet in general reminds me of the background stories 10-yeard old wrote on the roleplaying server in another MMO I played. It’s flashy, heroic and makes the character overly important to the world. But there’s nothing fun or original about them.

Erukk.1408:

Xukavi.4320:

This interview: http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02/11/prepare-to-escape-from-lions-arch-in-guild-wars-2s-next-conten/

They basically stated that all services that were important are being moved to the vigil keep and PS story entrances will be done through a new entrance.

You missed a spot in the interview…

All essential services that are unique to Lion’s Arch will be redirected to Vigil Keep for the time being, including Asura gates to other cities, Fractals of the Mists, and incarcerated cactus-faced troublemakers.

“For the time being”= temporary change

You gotta be joking…after all Lion’s Arch has been through, it’s an INSULT to have it destroyed by such a minor and poorly written character as Scarlet.

That’s it…time to find a new MMO.

ThiBash.5634:

You gotta be joking…after all Lion’s Arch has been through, it’s an INSULT to have it destroyed by such a minor and poorly written character as Scarlet.

That’s it…time to find a new MMO.

Just wait ‘til Sephiroth shows up in FF XIV and you’ll have all the pretentious writing your heart desires.

Of course we want it! Doesn’t matter who changes it.

And I know many will disagree but I think Scarlet is actually gasp a better villain then Shiro or Lich (Varesh still tops it all) …Shiro just made me laugh whenever I saw a cutscene with him, so bland and funny voice acting…while Scarlet has actual emotion behind her voice especially in recent patches.

And think of the bigger picture…if LA gets destroyed Tyria loses it’s central cultural and racial hub, not just from the gameplay point of value. Think of the longer consequences that will be born from that in the long run.

CharrGirl.7896:

Of course we want it! Doesn’t matter who changes it.

And I know many will disagree but I think Scarlet is actually gasp a better villain then Shiro or Lich (Varesh still tops it all) …Shiro just made me laugh whenever I saw a cutscene with him, so bland and funny voice acting…while Scarlet has actual emotion behind her voice especially in recent patches.

Yes. of course, Shiro was supposed to be dumb but strong type, so him acting like that was completely appropriate.
Scarlet voice on the other hand is indeed emotional, and done by a good VA. Too bad that it’s the only good thing that can be said of this character, and that it makes Scarlet even more ridiculous.

goldenwing.8473:

I don’t plan to step foot into LA during the entire next LS.

I will probably go through LA to see what they’ve done after the LS has cleared out.

I have gone back through Kessex a few times on my alts, only to do the personal story for exp. Skipped the entire zone because it’s ugly now, I hate the LS and what it has done to the game and Kessex is a glaring reminder of that.

So probably LA will be a zone I will also forfeit in this game.

Like I’ve said elsewhere, I am obviously not one of ANet’s intended customers for this game anymore.

ANet has made it abundantly clear, that unlike other developers who understand that customers help shape the game after release, ANet has retained full ownership of this game, and will do whatever they want, however they see fit.

Including nothing lasts forever.

Let’s hope that phrase does not come back to haunt them regarding customer income.

In the meantime, there will be customers who enjoy destruction. And those that are hoping something better replaces what is currently in LA.

I wish enjoyment for all who are looking forward to this next patch.

This is exactly why they should do these things. If it ruined an area you thought was beautiful and you now have to avoid it that means they are making you feel things. So at a later time when efforts possibly come out to fix an area your going to be even more excited. Things should have impact having a world untouched makes for this huge war around you with the same destruction over and over that somehow seems to avoid certain areas.