[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: deepwinter.9015

deepwinter.9015

I was a little disappointed to learn that Trahearne spent the past few months, much less the past year, of Scarlet’s rampage twiddling his thumbs down at Fort Trinity.

While I understand that, from a military standpoint, she presented no significant threat requiring The Pact’s support up to her involvement in Kessex Hills, from the Marionette to Lion’s Arch she presented a massive threat to Tyria! Her armies killed thousands and threatened even more.

Wouldn’t the Commander (the player character) have had any say in the matter? We learn from Laranthir that he had to coerce the All-mighty Marshal to send at least one ship to check things out… after the battle was over! From a public relations standpoint, and to steal a line from the Firstborn himself, “this won’t end well.”

Frankly, I think this little amendment to the Living Story is cheap and yet another poor storytelling element to a woefully pitiful story arch. While the end result is greatly welcomed (namely, we got a Dragon – finally), the entire journey has been one big bed of coals we’ve had to suffer walking over. Trahearne has become one of my least favorite characters of all time with this move.

Azhandris – Sylvari Thief
Tarnished Coast

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

It seems to me that the pact had a few hundred “commanders” fighting this battle. I’m not sure why you want an organization that is dedicating to fighting dragons defending a bunch of pirates.

Did I miss the part where the captain’s council formally requested help from the pact?

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: Calys Teneb.7015

Calys Teneb.7015

The Pact’s commission is for Elder Dragons. Until now there was no indication (in the story) that a dragon was involved.

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

It seems to me that the pact had a few hundred “commanders” fighting this battle. I’m not sure why you want an organization that is dedicating to fighting dragons defending a bunch of pirates.

Did I miss the part where the captain’s council formally requested help from the pact?

This. If the Pact had moved into LA (as I said on another topic) to “protect them” the Captains council and citizens would be up in arms about a military occupation.

Considering even DURING the Marionette, the answer to “Where is this army threatening LA?” was “Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm……….. we don’t know…………” The pact forces can’t be deployed from Orr (which is still a major thing, LOTS of Risen even if their numbers are thinning from not getting as many as fast) when the enemy isn’t even located.

And before Marionette, by the time Pact forces may be ready to go the reply would be “Oh wait, it’s dealt with. Scarlet and her forces disappeared…” What’s the point mobilizing the Pact for a long travel to LA?

But yes, the captains council never asked for help before the attack, so the Pact had no reason to march to LA.

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: kta.6502

kta.6502

I was a little disappointed to learn that Trahearne spent the past few months, much less the past year, of Scarlet’s rampage twiddling his thumbs down at Fort Trinity.

While I understand that, from a military standpoint, she presented no significant threat requiring The Pact’s support up to her involvement in Kessex Hills, from the Marionette to Lion’s Arch she presented a massive threat to Tyria! Her armies killed thousands and threatened even more.

Wouldn’t the Commander (the player character) have had any say in the matter? We learn from Laranthir that he had to coerce the All-mighty Marshal to send at least one ship to check things out… after the battle was over! From a public relations standpoint, and to steal a line from the Firstborn himself, “this won’t end well.”

Frankly, I think this little amendment to the Living Story is cheap and yet another poor storytelling element to a woefully pitiful story arch. While the end result is greatly welcomed (namely, we got a Dragon – finally), the entire journey has been one big bed of coals we’ve had to suffer walking over. Trahearne has become one of my least favorite characters of all time with this move.

Trahearne is not at fault. He answers to the Pale Tree, and in Sylvari society, every Dreamer listens to the commands of Mama Tree, who motto is “We come into this world to destroy the dragons. We must not lose ourselves in that challenge” (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dream_and_Nightmare#Biology). Most likely, the Pale Tree told her people stay out of the situation because it had nothing to do with dragons (or so she thought).

The Sylvari Dreamer commanders wouldn’t be at fault either. They’re all just following Mama’s orders.

(edited by kta.6502)

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

I was a little disappointed to learn that Trahearne spent the past few months, much less the past year, of Scarlet’s rampage twiddling his thumbs down at Fort Trinity.

While I understand that, from a military standpoint, she presented no significant threat requiring The Pact’s support up to her involvement in Kessex Hills, from the Marionette to Lion’s Arch she presented a massive threat to Tyria! Her armies killed thousands and threatened even more.

Wouldn’t the Commander (the player character) have had any say in the matter? We learn from Laranthir that he had to coerce the All-mighty Marshal to send at least one ship to check things out… after the battle was over! From a public relations standpoint, and to steal a line from the Firstborn himself, “this won’t end well.”

Frankly, I think this little amendment to the Living Story is cheap and yet another poor storytelling element to a woefully pitiful story arch. While the end result is greatly welcomed (namely, we got a Dragon – finally), the entire journey has been one big bed of coals we’ve had to suffer walking over. Trahearne has become one of my least favorite characters of all time with this move.

Trahearne is not at fault. He answers to the Pale Tree, and in Sylvari society, every Dreamer listens to the commands of Mama Tree, who motto is “We come into this world to destroy the dragons. We must not lose ourselves in that challenge” (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dream_and_Nightmare#Biology). Most likely, the Pale Tree told her people stay out of the situation because it had nothing to do with dragons (or so she thought).

The Sylvari Dreamer commanders wouldn’t be at fault either. They’re all just following Mama’s orders.

I have to disagree with your explanation. Only because I think that the Pale Tree new full well that a dragon was involved from the beginning.

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: kta.6502

kta.6502

I have to disagree with your explanation. Only because I think that the Pale Tree new full well that a dragon was involved from the beginning.

I’m curious: Where is your proof? If you can find in-game proof or evidence from official sources that the PT knew about the dragon, I’d love to hear it.

The PT may have access to the Dream, but she isn’t a goddess. She is just as fallible as any mortal.

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: Stooperdale.3560

Stooperdale.3560

I still can’t understand why nobody thinks through the difference between the living story and the personal story. The living story is at the same stage for everyone. The events have happened in the world. We all see the same results. The personal story is not at the same stage for everyone. Different characters see different things. If I create a new character tomorrow then that character can see Lion’s Arch in ruins but that character will not have met Trahearne and the personal story has not yet happened. This is precisely why Trahearne is never going to be in the living story.

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: Keyce.8137

Keyce.8137

I still can’t understand why nobody thinks through the difference between the living story and the personal story. The living story is at the same stage for everyone. The events have happened in the world. We all see the same results. The personal story is not at the same stage for everyone. Different characters see different things. If I create a new character tomorrow then that character can see Lion’s Arch in ruins but that character will not have met Trahearne and the personal story has not yet happened. This is precisely why Trahearne is never going to be in the living story.

Except that (timeline speaking), the Pact has already defeated Zhaitan. Else, Dragon Bash (LS update) wouldn’t have happened, because we’d be terrified and thinking dragons were unbeatable killing machines.

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

I have to disagree with your explanation. Only because I think that the Pale Tree new full well that a dragon was involved from the beginning.

I’m curious: Where is your proof? If you can find in-game proof or evidence from official sources that the PT knew about the dragon, I’d love to hear it.

The PT may have access to the Dream, but she isn’t a goddess. She is just as fallible as any mortal.

from “What Scarlet Saw”

Please: go no further. In seeking to comprehend the forces that shape us, you will unleash them. Society cannot withstand that.

Also,

Now do you see? The Pale Tree’s voice was faint and distant, but it snapped Ceara back to viewing the tree from a distance. If you are not one with what you were born to be, you are lost. Worse, you are dangerous.

The Pale Tree knew

(edited by DarcShriek.5829)

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: Little Old Lady.3742

Little Old Lady.3742

I still can’t understand why nobody thinks through the difference between the living story and the personal story. The living story is at the same stage for everyone. The events have happened in the world. We all see the same results. The personal story is not at the same stage for everyone. Different characters see different things. If I create a new character tomorrow then that character can see Lion’s Arch in ruins but that character will not have met Trahearne and the personal story has not yet happened. This is precisely why Trahearne is never going to be in the living story.

you know that air ship in LA the pact member by the old portals says treahearn spared that one air ship to look into thie dragon stuff. i guess he just ignores you if you are not a commander. or doesnt explain who trahearn or the pact is.

Little Old Lady, Sea of Sorrows, Robot Adventurers [RA], Tokyo Japan.

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: PseudoNewb.5468

PseudoNewb.5468

Technically the pact has no standing army of it’s own. All of pact participants are from the orders. So if the orders need to re-deploy assets to Lions Arch, what makes you think they are going to ask the pact to do it? They don’t need Traherne’s permission or command structure to move their troops in Lions Arch. He probably doesn’t have any experience with civil defense anyways. More than likely, in the attack on lions arch, the orders would have recalled forces from their pact deployments if they determined that they needed more forces in Lions Arch. The pact would already be suffering from a lack of people, so contributing any the few soldiers that remain under their command would be out of the question because they need somebody to watch their forts and outposts.

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: ThiBash.5634

ThiBash.5634

This is the point where we can see that Sylvari are not just plant-made humans. They have no emotions, and no brains. At the very least Trahearne should have sent a token force to protect one of the Pact’s greatest allies, resources and the strongest bastion against the dragons.

But he doesn’t even realize that.

If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: CorneliusCoffin.3169

CorneliusCoffin.3169

Technically the pact has no standing army of it’s own. All of pact participants are from the orders. So if the orders need to re-deploy assets to Lions Arch, what makes you think they are going to ask the pact to do it? They don’t need Traherne’s permission or command structure to move their troops in Lions Arch. He probably doesn’t have any experience with civil defense anyways. More than likely, in the attack on lions arch, the orders would have recalled forces from their pact deployments if they determined that they needed more forces in Lions Arch. The pact would already be suffering from a lack of people, so contributing any the few soldiers that remain under their command would be out of the question because they need somebody to watch their forts and outposts.

So much this!
People need to realise that Trahearne is not at the top of the command chain for the pact. As the pact almost exclusively consists of order members, these commands can only be given by Steward Gixx (head of Durmand Priory), Almorra Soulkeeper (leader of the Vigil) or Riel Darkwater (Who is the Master of Whispers).
The pact had no business in Lion’s Arch prior to the attacks and I’m sure the citizens of LA wouldn’t have appreciated them just marching into their city. I’m pretty sure though that there were pact members involved in the evacuation of LA. Trahearne however is the leading expert on the undead, which is why he was in charge for the assault on Zhaitan. As far as I recall there were no undead in Lion’s Arch (this time). So why would the pact call him back from Orr, where obviously his work is still needed?

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

The problem being this. It takes TIME to recall and mobilize forces.

We aren’t talking about running across a small town/area and gathering your pals. We are talking about crossing a nation that isn’t 100% safe yet. And trying to contact airships and get them to return.

And then there is travel time for the airships (and troops if they can’t use the gates or waypoints).

By the time the battle was over, the Pact forces wouldn’t be there.

LA wasn’t the Pact’s greatest ally, resource, or the strongest bastion.

LA depended on Claw Island for defense against the Risen, without it LA is weak (and when Claw Island is bypassed, like Scarlet did, it falls easily). The Lionguard are weaker then any nation’s military force (smaller numbers for one).

The order forces helped out a lot. Techincally the “Pact” wasn’t involved aka, it’s heavy machines (tanks, airships, subs, golems, etc) or the leadership elements. The orders still deployed their forces around home.

If we sent Trahearne a report, then he asked the Captain’s Council and they told him “No thanks, we doubt she’ll attack again. If she does, the Lionguard will handle it.” He has no reason to start gathering an army. Yes, he trusts the player, but he’s not going to march an armed force into a city when the leadership told him they don’t need any help.

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: Traveller.7496

Traveller.7496

The Pale Tree definately knew, and chose not to act on her knowledge. Whether or not this ties into the theory that the Sylvari are dragon minions (and the PT might be a renegade Mordremoth champion, like Glint was) remains to be seen, but it’s still interesting to consider.

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

There is actually a NPC in Lion’s Arch explaining all this.

He basically says: “Since Scarlet had nothing to do with Dragons, it was of no interest to the Pact, since the Pact is specifically for hunting the Dragons. And we now sent some people when it was made clear that Scarlet did indeed had ties to a Dragon, thus we are here now”.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

There is actually a NPC in Lion’s Arch explaining all this.

He basically says: “Since Scarlet had nothing to do with Dragons, it was of no interest to the Pact, since the Pact is specifically for hunting the Dragons. And we now sent some people when it was made clear that Scarlet did indeed had ties to a Dragon, thus we are here now”.

You left out the “We are out hunting/planning to hunt dragons, not hunting down deviants.”

Yes, it’s kinda a eh response, but it’s fitting and explains it nicely. People just kitten to kitten.

I can understand their viewpoints, about Pact helping out with their gear. But they seem to ignore the whole mobilization/recall timeframe + travel time. By the time Pact forces reached LA, the battle could be over and in cleanup phase.

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: zMajc.4659

zMajc.4659

He was chosen to lead pact forces to victory against Zaithan. That was also his Wyld Hunt.

He lead one campaign, why would he have anything to do with anything else?

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: Kal Spiro.9745

Kal Spiro.9745

I was really happy about this. Laranthir’s entire existence and dialogue was ANet’s answer to all the people asking, “Why isn’t the Pact here defending LA.”

Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro – Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/WS #SABorRiot
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: Doggie.3184

Doggie.3184

The characters in-game weren’t fully aware that Scarlet was going to awake a Dragon till the very end, which is why the Pact is appearing now~ Previously Zhaitan’s leftover forces and the other Dragons out there were a far bigger threat than Scarlet, as they could destroy the entire continent if they had their way. ;o

| Fort Aspenwood (NA): Sylvari Daredevil Thief Main: All Classes 80. |
Please Remove/Fix Thief Trait: “Last Refuge.”
“Hard to Catch” is a Horrible and Useless Trait. Fixed 6/23/15. Praise Dwayna.

[Spoilers] Trahearne & the Living Story: WTF?

in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath

Posted by: locoman.1974

locoman.1974

The pact was formed to investigate and fight elder dragons, until now there was nothing linking Scarlet to elder dragons, sending the Pact after Scarlet would have been like a company sending the accounting department to go fix a broken production line machine.

Note one thing, though… the pact is nothing more than a joint effort from the three orders to fight elder dragons, the pact not getting involved in tracking and fighting Scarlet doesn’t mean the rest of the orders were sitting twidlind its thumbs. We see member from the three orders fighting the marionette, for example. The priory was the one that found Scarlett’s lair and helped with the evidence later (Marjory herself being a priory member). All three orders were present and helping during the Lion’s Arch fight.

The pact equipment wasn’t there, but why would it?… the attack and counter attack was probably over (in game time, not in real time) by the time they made their way from Orr, and even whether they’d be useful or not is up for grabs (IIRC all weapons and ammo used in the tanks and airships were customized to deal with undead)

And for Trehearne… well, the only reason he was chosen to lead the pact into Orr was that he had spend the last 25 years studying the Orr, the undead and Zaithan. At the time we meet him in Claw Island he had already spent years traveling and surviving in Orr alone, and other than Caithe, he’s the only one that had seen Zaithan and lived. He’s not the leader of the pact (that goes to the leaders of the three orders), he’s just the leader of pact operations in Orr.

It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training,
wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha.
A real grab bag of ‘you can’t hurt me. They’re called Guardians.