Guild Wars 2

catqeer.1954:

Basically famous daddy takes son from famous mommy to raise… Because famous daddy loves her so much he wants nothing to get in the way of her growing into a truly legendary figure among the norn. (though we all know she ends up surpassing that and becomes famous among all races.) He goes so far as to ask his friends to raise his boy when he passes and even demands that no one tell her he is dead. Out of fear she will be tempted to go there and raise her so, rather then become the great and heroic figure she is now… Kind of romantic if you think of it like a norn.

Seconding this, it screams “norn” and is a good example of my norn culture =/= human culture post.

Lindelle.3718:

catqeer.1954:

Basically famous daddy takes son from famous mommy to raise… Because famous daddy loves her so much he wants nothing to get in the way of her growing into a truly legendary figure among the norn. (though we all know she ends up surpassing that and becomes famous among all races.) He goes so far as to ask his friends to raise his boy when he passes and even demands that no one tell her he is dead. Out of fear she will be tempted to go there and raise her so, rather then become the great and heroic figure she is now… Kind of romantic if you think of it like a norn.

Seconding this, it screams “norn” and is a good example of my norn culture =/= human culture post.

Norn aren’t Klingons, no matter how badly you want to fanfic it. Legend could not supplant everything else in a functunal culture, maternalism, compassion, responsibility, care for a child you bore. I will still see Eir as more than some ego driven opportunist not wanting a child dragging her down, in spite of this story, and these contrived explanations.

Eirs character in game gave hope to some sort to depth to the Norn Female beyond the stupid drunken, egotistical, dolyak wrassling one dimensional characters littered all over. I guess thats too much, as I see you all cramming her into that one little norn box.

Link sources please. I would be interested in how much of this is lore, and how much just opinion.

Braham looks really cool in the wallpaper, but whoever created the looks of the character ingame didn’t do a very good job. First, his nose is kinda like a girlie pug nose, his hair on one side looks like a girls style. If they would have made his nose more masculine and his hair to look shaved on both sides he would look way cooler. Love his weapon and voice.

Lindelle.3718:

catqeer.1954:

Basically famous daddy takes son from famous mommy to raise… Because famous daddy loves her so much he wants nothing to get in the way of her growing into a truly legendary figure among the norn. (though we all know she ends up surpassing that and becomes famous among all races.) He goes so far as to ask his friends to raise his boy when he passes and even demands that no one tell her he is dead. Out of fear she will be tempted to go there and raise her so, rather then become the great and heroic figure she is now… Kind of romantic if you think of it like a norn.

Seconding this, it screams “norn” and is a good example of my norn culture =/= human culture post.

I dunno, I see all the cultures in GW2 as mirrors to real world human cultures. They do draw inspiration from real world cultures after all, many of them even mimic them.

As far as human culture in game vs norn culture in game, I suspect the details of this scenario are more likely to occur for a norn (the idea of their legend is an important defining part of their life is probably more important to a norn than it would be to a human) but the general theme of a dad giving up his career (that would be the real world parallel, a stay at home dad) to care for the son so the mother can fulfill her potential, I can see that happening to a human as well. It didn’t feel particularly norn to me (even Logan and Jennah have similair themes with Logan’s importance to Tyria as a member of Destiny’s Edge and Jennah’s duty as the Queen of Kryta). To me this story was more about the importance of someone’s contribution to Tyria vs their desire for a normal life rather than a norn specific value. Logan and Jennah would probably be together if they were just ordinary commoners.

It sounded like Braham’s father had potential too. I kind of wish we knew more so we can truly understand why he decided to give up his chance at greater glory for her. Is it because he thought she was destined to be greater than he ever could be (and partly a logical decision), or was he sacrificing his potential for her regardless of what he thought she could do? At the beginning of Edge of Destiny, Eir didn’t seem that impressive to me. She seemed more like a bystander rather than someone who did great things prior to joining Destiny’s Edge.

I wonder if ArenaNet intended for Eir to have a son all along or if they are kind of “expanding her story” (retconning) to fit him in. I’m confident we will find out more about Eir’s reasons for what happened (it surprises me Eir is an absentee mother, you would at least expect her to visit him, that alone wouldn’t stop her from fulfilling her potential). I hope we find out more about Braham’s father. I don’t really want to see his romance with Eir, but what made the man impressive is certainly of interest to me (even if it conveniently ties in with the Flame and Frost story) as is the reason he died (unless I missed it, we don’t know if it was sickness or wounds from a battle etc).

yeah i hope we get insight in why they agreed that he raise him far from her… how young was she when she gave birth?

Couples split up all the time while they still have babies. The problem most people seem to have is that the child went with the father rather than Eir.

Eir hasnt forgotten she has a child. She has barely seen him since he was baby. He was raised by another family as well. Its not an easy situation for her. We dont know why Borje left her in Hoelbrak. We dont know why Eir chose to stay out of her son’s life. Perhaps Borje requested it for some reason.

Without knowing the details its very hard to guess. Its quite possible that she avoided him because she felt she didnt have the right to barge into his life when he was with a caring family and she was a stranger.

I think this is a good development. They are fleshing out existing characters. Through Braham we are learning more about Eir’s past, her motivations and her failings. To me this doesnt seem forced and makes alot of sense.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Norn aren’t Klingons, no matter how badly you want to fanfic it. Legend could not supplant everything else in a functunal culture, maternalism, compassion, responsibility, care for a child you bore. I will still see Eir as more than some ego driven opportunist not wanting a child dragging her down, in spite of this story, and these contrived explanations.

That’s quite all right. I mean, I see Zojja as a raving lunatic whose intelligence and creativity are the only saving grace which keeps her being even a little useful to the world at large. She’s not quite as bad as Gadd was, to be sure. We could go round and round on this with alternate character interpretations all day long.

Fact of the matter is, we have seen that the norn do have familiar units and “male homemakers”, and a variety of types. We can have dysfunctional families all the same, or . . . illegitimate children born out of “marriage”, which is what I’d wager Braham actually is.

Whomever his father or mother is, if he was born that way it would tarnish him from the start in human cultures. So take your pick on that one.

Eirs character in game gave hope to some sort to depth to the Norn Female beyond the stupid drunken, egotistical, dolyak wrassling one dimensional characters littered all over. I guess thats too much, as I see you all cramming her into that one little norn box.

And why not? Everyone crams Logan into the “whiny emo” box, Trahearne into the “glory-grubbing tree” box . . . I get to do the same to Eir

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Lindelle.3718:

catqeer.1954:

Basically famous daddy takes son from famous mommy to raise… Because famous daddy loves her so much he wants nothing to get in the way of her growing into a truly legendary figure among the norn. (though we all know she ends up surpassing that and becomes famous among all races.) He goes so far as to ask his friends to raise his boy when he passes and even demands that no one tell her he is dead. Out of fear she will be tempted to go there and raise her so, rather then become the great and heroic figure she is now… Kind of romantic if you think of it like a norn.

Seconding this, it screams “norn” and is a good example of my norn culture =/= human culture post.

Norn aren’t Klingons, no matter how badly you want to fanfic it. Legend could not supplant everything else in a functunal culture, maternalism, compassion, responsibility, care for a child you bore. I will still see Eir as more than some ego driven opportunist not wanting a child dragging her down, in spite of this story, and these contrived explanations.

Norns aren’t Klingons, you are correct. So your idea is to cram them in a box made from Human ideals that compassion, maternalism, and other human factors you value?

That’s not a solid plan. Norns aren’t Klingons, but they aren’t Humans either.

Shiren.9532:

I wonder if ArenaNet intended for Eir to have a son all along or if they are kind of “expanding her story” (retconning) to fit him in.

Technically its not a retcon. Based on what I’ve read there’s no evidence to established she never had a kid nor she never had a relationship. All we knew, before this, was she is a tall redheaded Norn Ranger (kinda hot) with a pet wolf who is possibly the oldest member of the guild that fought dragons. She was the tactician of the group, a sculptor, and lost her father to the Icebrood (I think). This is just another thing added to her history, not a retcon really.

A good example of a retcon would be she was in a relationship with someone and he/she was the only person they ever loved, no others came before them or could come after…..except for this one guy who pops into the story and says “yeah we hooked up before that guy”. That would be a retcon, or establishing she had a kid and then later on in a story say she never had a kid.

I don’t know if its just me but I would love to be able to have Braham’s hair..

My brother was really critical and condesending about Braham’s hair… until I pulled out a photo of what his heir looked like when he was 17.

Shut him right up.

I think he looks great! Nice job.

Braham rules! They did a great job creating this character. To me, Barahm’s like the new Norn generation,: proud of their nornish traditions, but eager to conquer the future. Independent. Self-concious. Unconventional. Caring. Like it a lot. :-)

One thing I like about Braham is his story feels like a bit of a role reversal or evolution of role for my character. In my PS, my character was a young untested hero who was mentored by a more experianced hero. Now its like Ive stepped into the role of mentor for Braham, giving him a steadying hand and making sure he doesnt fall in the deep end.

My character certianly has his own invested interests in what the FL is doing by its a cool sort of relationship to form with the young norn.

I came here to discuss Braham but, after reading the thread, I found that everything has been discussed already.

Anyway, my first impression of Braham is that he’s modeled very poorly. I thought he looked ten years older than Eir but, really, learning that he’s supposed to be seventeen really left me puzzled. He looks like a forty years old man who took one too many punches to the face.
His choice of weapons is also silly to me. His mace is almost as big as his lower body, making him look straight out of WoW.

Now, his story seems silly, too. His homestead gets attacked by the Molten Alliance, so he runs away looking for help. Instead of asking Knut (or anyone in Hoelbrak, really), he runs all the way to the Citadel because he doesn’t want to get involved with Eir. At the Citadel, he asks Rytlock for help by… addressing his relationship with Eir.
Rytlock gives him a quite understandable glare, at which point Uglio finally visits Knut.
It seems to me there’s a lot of details contradicting with each other: why did he think Rytlock, of all people, would help him out? Why did he use his relationship with Eir to pull strings with Rytlock when he could have done the same with anyone in Nornland and get better results? If Borje wanted his death to be kept a secret, why didn’t Eir mention him in her short conversation with Braham? Does she know he is dead? Why didn’t Braham and his lot run to safety to Hoelbrak or Lion’s Arch like everyone else? It’s not like the Alliance hasn’t been storming the Foothills for a while now.

Braham’s quest really left me unsure of what to expect next. Hopefully, either his model is improved, or Eir is revealed to be an unaging sixty years old hag because, as it stands now, I’m being reminded of the one time I created a 70 years old geezer in Dragon Age 2 who looked downright hilarious next to his silver-haired top model mother. That’s right, I’m being reminded of Dragon Age 2. That’s not a good sign!

I’ll just say this: it’s gotta sting when you go to your mom’s friend for help and get called a liar because your mom let all her friends think she was childless. (And may have even told them so outright – Rytlock seems awfully certain that Eir has no son.)

Also, I agree that his in-game model’s face looks way too old. Teenagers generally don’t have deep lines around the mouth and huge bags under the eyes.

Baolun.8316:

Also, I agree that his in-game model’s face looks way too old. Teenagers generally don’t have deep lines around the mouth and huge bags under the eyes.

Yet I did at 17, the bags so to speak. And I’ve seen some folk who did start getting “age lines” fairly early. I’d wager living in the Shiverpeaks can bring about that sort of effect on peoples’ skin. Assuming that much of norn physiology is the same as human, of course.

Addressing the age thing: First of all, circumstance can visibly age people beyond their years. I think Braham looks like a person who has been forced to grow up too early, and has been in too many fights.

Another thing, Eir could very well be like 60, and look the way she does. It says on the wiki that norn can live to be around 120 years old and still be strong and healthy. They don’t age like humans.

Baolun.8316:

I’ll just say this: it’s gotta sting when you go to your mom’s friend for help and get called a liar because your mom let all her friends think she was childless. (And may have even told them so outright – Rytlock seems awfully certain that Eir has no son.)

He also barged in on Rytlock in a particularly bad mood, despite everything you go through with Rytlock if you try and talk to him directly in the scene where he dispatches Rox on her mission he calls for gaurds to, “get this <race> out of my face!”

Riot Inducer.8964:

Baolun.8316:

I’ll just say this: it’s gotta sting when you go to your mom’s friend for help and get called a liar because your mom let all her friends think she was childless. (And may have even told them so outright – Rytlock seems awfully certain that Eir has no son.)

He also barged in on Rytlock in a particularly bad mood, despite everything you go through with Rytlock if you try and talk to him directly in the scene where he dispatches Rox on her mission he calls for gaurds to, “get this <race> out of my face!”

He’s in a bad mood because the Citadel infrastructure is overtaxed with refugees fleeing Flame Legion and dredge. Because while he was out dealing with Zhaitan this crap was kicking off and he comes back to deal with a minor crisis turning into something more serious.

And Knut Whitebear has the problem of using the Wolfborn to keep Hoelbrak safe and orderly, and can’t just dispatch them everywhere being attacked. Braham really doesn’t have much aid he can call on except for “independent contractors” like our characters.

Who in ArenaNet thought it was good idea to give an NPC guardian a SHIELD when that NPC is going to be running around with you?

I swear I started to let this bozo die just to stop his incredibly ill-timed Shield of Absorption activations that keep throwing apart NPCs when I’ve finally manage to get them grouped together for an AOE.

NPC AI is not good enough to give them crowd control abilities. A focus or torch would be a much less annoying choice for this guy.

As far as his physical design, I don’t really care for it. As far as the story, I did like the little touch that we’ll have to rescue his crush, young norn love should be amusing to watch. Also I’m intrigued to see the fallout when poor Rytlock finds out Eir never trusted them enough to say anything about her son.

In short, character story = interesting, character design/mechanics = annoying.

I’m not very fond of Braham (or his appearance) myself, but I’m appreciating the chance to get a deeper look at Norn family values and about Eir’s history and motivations.

It’s entirely possible that Borje and Eir had some sort of falling out, but personally, I have the feeling that when Eir became pregnant, she and Borje discussed what would happen next. They were both famous legend-seeking (the equivalent of career-oriented) Norn, and settling down to raise a child would probably mean the end of that. Perhaps they came to a mutual agreement that Borje would become the caregiver, or more likely, in true Norn fashion, the two of them competed to see who would get to raise Braham. Borje won (or lost, depending on what their contest was like), and so he went to Cragstead with Braham.

Zaxares.5419:

I’m not very fond of Braham (or his appearance) myself, but I’m appreciating the chance to get a deeper look at Norn family values and about Eir’s history and motivations.

It’s entirely possible that Borje and Eir had some sort of falling out, but personally, I have the feeling that when Eir became pregnant, she and Borje discussed what would happen next. They were both famous legend-seeking (the equivalent of career-oriented) Norn, and settling down to raise a child would probably mean the end of that. Perhaps they came to a mutual agreement that Borje would become the caregiver, or more likely, in true Norn fashion, the two of them competed to see who would get to raise Braham. Borje won (or lost, depending on what their contest was like), and so he went to Cragstead with Braham.

While this is an interesting supposition . . .

. . . is it unfair for me to say “we really can’t speculate, or we’re just spinning fanfiction yarns”?

Nothing wrong with speculation, I feel. It’s just people tossing around ideas while waiting for the next installment to come out.