Guild Wars 2

It was less then three minutes it was more like 30 seconds. and when it glows on my end it looks like the body of what I killed either way I watched someone walk up and then it stopped glowing and then in three minutes the body disappeared so yeah I know what I saw but it matters little cause no one seems to want to listen.

RuneCrimson.7380:

It was less then three minutes it was more like 30 seconds. and when it glows on my end it looks like the body of what I killed either way I watched someone walk up and then it stopped glowing and then in three minutes the body disappeared so yeah I know what I saw but it matters little cause no one seems to want to listen.

yeah because what you say doesn’t fit together. Mobs disappear much faster than 3minutes, they do so in a few seconds. I don’t believe you, sorry. I don’t know a single person in this game (and I know a lot) who ever claimed that his loot was stolen.

Alright so here’s my experience with the dungeon tonight (spoilers to follow):

Finding group – easy. It’s new content. Not sure if it will remain as such as the days roll on. In the first party only 1 dude had done the dungeon before which was fine. Group itself is pretty cool and easy going. Dungeon spawn are easier to deal with than those in in CM and AC for which I am grateful. Mini-boss tester dredge is great. However I noticed I could not evade any of the shockwaves. Jumping, evading, nothing was working. It’s ok though since I could still handle the damage.

We reach the bosses and wipe and wipe and wipe and wipe (a lot)… etc, unable to even down one. The shockwave mechanic is pretty much murder for me now where I can only dodge 1 in 40. At this point I have to go because I had planned based on the front page that a random pug would take an hour. It was going on our second hour. Sorry guys, hope you still got through otherwise I just wasted a portion of your life.

When I get back I found another party rather quick, this time mostly vets grinding. Moved faster sure, but less friendly(?)/talkative too. Intrigued at the random spawn during the drill section and much preferred the trio of trolls to the oozes. Rest of the spawn further in was pretty much the same.

Ran into the same problems with the shockwave on mini-boss and bosses. Worked out that for me I have to jump/dodge whatever EARLY. As in, almost before the crusher or the cat guy even lands on the ground to succeed, which if the camera is not looking the right way is almost impossible. Not sure if this is intentional. The other folks seem to be doing ok though. Jumping “over” the shockwave as it arrives always results in damage or death. More so when the cat boss leveled up after we killed his dredge friend (one of the dungeon masters thought it was too boring to kill the cat first).

This resulted in me being down/dead most of the final fight. Yay that was exciting. At least I got to admire the nice animations you had for the bad guys. Finally they are slain, and time for the STUPIDEST controlled explosion ever. Rox hadn’t even secured our escape yet when we plant the bombs. Run run run to the exit. That part was fine, wish there was more of that. We made it. Too bad -none- of the prisoners did. Does that mean we just left them there to die? I guess we did. Way to go heroes!

So after spending around 3.5+ hours in that dungeon I can safely say: I’m glad that’s over and I don’t intend on ever doing it again. Better than standard dungeons? Sure. Fun? Hell no.

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

Alright so here’s my experience with the dungeon tonight (spoilers to follow):

-snip-

it’s actually possible to jump over the shockwaves, I’m not sure if it’s possible with the fire-shockwave too, since it has a limited range I tried to stay away as far away as possible from the boss and run away even farther when the firewaves emerges.

this guide might be useful for you:
http://dulfy.net/2013/04/30/gw2-molten-weapon-facilities-dungeon-guide/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gw2-molten-weapon-facilities-dungeon-guide
thanks to Dulfy, as always

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

So after spending around 3.5+ hours in that dungeon I can safely say: I’m glad that’s over and I don’t intend on ever doing it again. Better than standard dungeons? Sure. Fun? Hell no.

Just did this dungeon with a PuG. My experience was considerably less painful than yours, thank goodness, but even so I was often somewhat confused about what was going on. As in, what the heck am I trying to dodge? Why are there red circles everywhere? What’s the point of trying to get out of one when the only place to go is into another one? Also – my warrior was killed by being knocked off the platform, but somehow landed… back on the platform? I’m assuming there was a wizard involved.

Got through it though, and I don’t think I embarrassed myself too badly. I let the group know before we started that I was a total dungeon noob. They were all quite nice. Nobody yelled at me, anyway.

Heh. It was better, in my opinion, than the dungeon at the end of the (im)personal story, but then again that’s like saying that it’s better to be mauled by a lion than by a tiger.

Anyway, that’s done, and now I know what to expect from future ‘living stories’.

Thobek.1730:

Alphonse.4356:

This is a game we pay to play, not a military style boot camp designed to change our behavior. You are exactly the type of person the causes me to dislike forced groups.

That’s ok, nobody is forcing you to do anything.
If you miss out because your too shy to play with others its your loss, not mine.

snip
That was the whole point see, we ARE being forced to do dungeons, – if we want to see the end of our personal story and the living story, all which up to then had been soloable. Otherwise it’s like having read a whole book and then had the last chapter torn out. Of course we would like to see the ending.
And you still don’t get it, .there are many who hate doing dungeons with a passion, and those who can’t do them because of health reasons, like myself as I said previously. It’s not because we’re SHY. If we were that shy we wouldn’t have picked a mmo to play , we’d only be playing solo RPGs were we were sure to never have to interact with other people.

RuneCrimson.7380:

It was less then three minutes it was more like 30 seconds. and when it glows on my end it looks like the body of what I killed either way I watched someone walk up and then it stopped glowing and then in three minutes the body disappeared so yeah I know what I saw but it matters little cause no one seems to want to listen.

I also have never run into this. The only thing I can imagine is that somehow you failed to “tag” it. If you are out of range and the battleground is messy, it’s hard to tell when you are in range. Other than this, no clue.

MatthewMedina.5419:

Instead we focused our time and energy into making a really unique, polished and hopefully memorable encounter that enables any group of five to complete in roughly an hour.

Some of us dont have the luxury of a whole uninterrupted hour. :-(

Well my experience was decent. Random group, no one knew anything about it; I had taken a glance over the dulfy guide for a smidge of what was going on. It took us 45 minutes, no one died and there was only a dozen downs between us all.

Honestly if even a single person has been through before, you should have enough knowledge to survive just fine. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

Turgon.8625:

ForAce.1943:

This is MMO, not Single Player game! Come on ppl!

Im hope in this dungeon, will be parts where party must cooperate, and final fight will looks like fight with frog in SAB, where we need some kind of strategy to win.

Let’s be slightly more accurate.

The content so far has been in the world, where you play with other people, not necessarily solo. It has not required a formalised, organised group.

Sorry dude, but actually quite a bit of the game’s content requires you to play in an organized fashion, with other people. Fractals, guild content, WvW, dungeon explorable modes. You’re just going to have to “take the dive” and play the dungeons. They’re great. This game is about the adventure, very obviously. Why would you exclude yourself from the great experiences of dungeon-play with guildies (this part helps) just because you feel somehow opposed to it? What, ideologically?

Chameleon.5326:

MatthewMedina.5419:

Instead we focused our time and energy into making a really unique, polished and hopefully memorable encounter that enables any group of five to complete in roughly an hour.

Some of us dont have the luxury of a whole uninterrupted hour. :-(

Some of us shouldn’t be playing video games then…

jaikrsna.1079:

Chameleon.5326:

MatthewMedina.5419:

Instead we focused our time and energy into making a really unique, polished and hopefully memorable encounter that enables any group of five to complete in roughly an hour.

Some of us dont have the luxury of a whole uninterrupted hour. :-(

Some of us shouldn’t be playing video games then…

I think you mean “Some of us shouldn’t be sleeping then…”

I stayed up until 4am last night to enjoy the new content with my friends and somehow still made it to work on time this morning.

why would some one have this hellbent idea that ‘i forever refuse to party with other people to complete a quest in a mmo game’ is beyond me. Go play skyrim if you hate grouping with other human beings.

MatthewMedina.5419:

With all due respect, balancing content like a story instance is completely different than balancing an enhanced jumping puzzle like Super Adventure Box, so for us it just wasn’t feasible to consider doing an “easy” and “hard” mode in this particular case.

Instead we focused our time and energy into making a really unique, polished and hopefully memorable encounter that enables any group of five to complete in roughly an hour. I understand that there are players who will simply object philosophically to this direction, and wish that all the content we create to be solo-friendly, but our company has always been focused around building an online world that encourages our players to play our game together.

For those of you who have taken the plunge and shut down one of the Molten Facilities, thank you so much for giving it a try and giving us your feedback. Hope to see you on the front lines!

Hi Matthew,

I happened to read your response on the thread concerning the disappointment some players felt regarding the dungeon-based ending for flame and frost. I had posted on that thread as well, and although I do not believe your comment was responding to me directly, I wanted to reply to a particular portion of it:

“I understand that there are players who will simply object philosophically to this direction, and wish that all the content we create to be solo-friendly, but our company has always been focused around building an online world that encourages our players to play our game together.”

Personally, I am not idealogically opposed to content that is not solo friendly. I personally enjoy encountering dynamic events in the open world and joining in on the battle! And you all have crafted such a beautiful world!

The reason I left the game centers around my personal feeling that although there is a great deal of content one may experience as a solo player in the game, I felt there was virtually no content that one could experience to its conclusion as a solo player: Personal Story, Exploration, Living Story for examples.

That said, I know that each developer has their own philosophy regarding development and I respect that you have clarified that philosophy and intend to stick to your guns. I was feeling very moved at my disappointment in not being able to complete those three portions of the game I had enjoyed so much, that I wanted to let the team know that I was experiencing that disappointment.

Regards,
Matt (formerly Skade Thordottir)

Myst Dawnbringer.9138:

Because a lot of players would have skipped it. I would like a refund please.

I wasn’t aware that we had to pay for the living story.
Oh wait, we didn’t.
If I can get a refund for every game i’ve played for about 80% of the content I’d be a millionaire.

Nightshade.1493:

MatthewMedina.5419:

With all due respect, balancing content like a story instance is completely different than balancing an enhanced jumping puzzle like Super Adventure Box, so for us it just wasn’t feasible to consider doing an “easy” and “hard” mode in this particular case.

Instead we focused our time and energy into making a really unique, polished and hopefully memorable encounter that enables any group of five to complete in roughly an hour. I understand that there are players who will simply object philosophically to this direction, and wish that all the content we create to be solo-friendly, but our company has always been focused around building an online world that encourages our players to play our game together.

For those of you who have taken the plunge and shut down one of the Molten Facilities, thank you so much for giving it a try and giving us your feedback. Hope to see you on the front lines!

Hi Matthew,

I happened to read your response on the thread concerning the disappointment some players felt regarding the dungeon-based ending for flame and frost. I had posted on that thread as well, and although I do not believe your comment was responding to me directly, I wanted to reply to a particular portion of it:

“I understand that there are players who will simply object philosophically to this direction, and wish that all the content we create to be solo-friendly, but our company has always been focused around building an online world that encourages our players to play our game together.”

Personally, I am not idealogically opposed to content that is not solo friendly. I personally enjoy encountering dynamic events in the open world and joining in on the battle! And you all have crafted such a beautiful world!

The reason I left the game centers around my personal feeling that although there is a great deal of content one may experience as a solo player in the game, I felt there was virtually no content that one could experience to its conclusion as a solo player: Personal Story, Exploration, Living Story for examples.

That said, I know that each developer has their own philosophy regarding development and I respect that you have clarified that philosophy and intend to stick to your guns. I was feeling very moved at my disappointment in not being able to complete those three portions of the game I had enjoyed so much, that I wanted to let the team know that I was experiencing that disappointment.

Regards,
Matt (formerly Skade Thordottir)

I really don’t understand the difficulties some of you are facing.

How hard is it to just pug with people? Last time I tried I had no problem finishing the dungeon. The whole point of a MMO is so that you can play with other people. If you want to do everything by yourself you might as well play Skyrim or Dark Souls for that matter.

Nightshade.1493:

MatthewMedina.5419:

With all due respect, balancing content like a story instance is completely different than balancing an enhanced jumping puzzle like Super Adventure Box, so for us it just wasn’t feasible to consider doing an “easy” and “hard” mode in this particular case.

Instead we focused our time and energy into making a really unique, polished and hopefully memorable encounter that enables any group of five to complete in roughly an hour. I understand that there are players who will simply object philosophically to this direction, and wish that all the content we create to be solo-friendly, but our company has always been focused around building an online world that encourages our players to play our game together.

For those of you who have taken the plunge and shut down one of the Molten Facilities, thank you so much for giving it a try and giving us your feedback. Hope to see you on the front lines!

Hi Matthew,

I happened to read your response on the thread concerning the disappointment some players felt regarding the dungeon-based ending for flame and frost. I had posted on that thread as well, and although I do not believe your comment was responding to me directly, I wanted to reply to a particular portion of it:

“I understand that there are players who will simply object philosophically to this direction, and wish that all the content we create to be solo-friendly, but our company has always been focused around building an online world that encourages our players to play our game together.”

Personally, I am not idealogically opposed to content that is not solo friendly. I personally enjoy encountering dynamic events in the open world and joining in on the battle! And you all have crafted such a beautiful world!

The reason I left the game centers around my personal feeling that although there is a great deal of content one may experience as a solo player in the game, I felt there was virtually no content that one could experience to its conclusion as a solo player: Personal Story, Exploration, Living Story for examples.

That said, I know that each developer has their own philosophy regarding development and I respect that you have clarified that philosophy and intend to stick to your guns. I was feeling very moved at my disappointment in not being able to complete those three portions of the game I had enjoyed so much, that I wanted to let the team know that I was experiencing that disappointment.

Regards,
Matt (formerly Skade Thordottir)

hhmmn you are ok playing with 100 players taking down Jormag but oppose the idea of playing with 5 players to take down the dungeon boss….

do you see your own contradiction?

This is sooo sad. Learn to read people…
Reasons why some of us don’t like dungeons were given.

But to say it again:
medical (some sicknesses prevent the needed reaction speed for coordinated groups)
time (some people cannot guarantee an hour of uninterrupted play)

Yes there are some people who object philosophically but did you read that this thread is not about them? I for example don’t like being forced into anything. I enjoy running around in the open world or WvW and I like to help others or play with them but I hate grouping. I do it to experience content but 9 out of 10 times I don’t enjoy it.

It is not about being shy or not wanting to interact with others. Stop saying that it is simply not true.

Dakan.9463:

But to say it again:
medical (some sicknesses prevent the needed reaction speed for coordinated groups)
time (some people cannot guarantee an hour of uninterrupted play)

On the topic of time, GW2 is one of the most casual-friendly (from a time perspective) MMOs around. I can understand that people might have something suddenly came up – it happens to all of us some point or another – but assuming you are playing with friends I would like to imagine that most would be understanding as to time frames and do content accordingly. It’s also not completely out of the question to try and set aside time to do things that take longer at a different time ahead of time – I mean, think about old school RPG games, with “save points.” Those where relentless to the player on a short time – but most of us adapted to make sure we didn’t play unless we were positive the time allowed it.

As for medical conditions, it’s unfortunate. If everything was catered to a super-forgiving state, the “hardcore” crowd would throw a hissy, and a lot of the player base would whine and complain about how easy everything is (which a good portion of the vocal side of the forums do already). The best thing for that is to have an understandable team to play with (again, any MMO is only worth playing if you have friends that play IMO), and a bit of patience when it comes to your capabilities (ie. Don’t get frustrated about deaths). As far as something like epilepsy issues, I honestly can’t even imagine what its like, so

As to the difficulty of this dungeon, took about an hour with a PUG for me, with one of our members being a level 44 and two having it be their first dungeon ever (and they actually probably did better than living than me till I finally got my groove on during the second half). Graphic/internet lag will probably be the end of a lot of people as far as jumping over the shockwaves I imagine, but I felt the overall “coolness” of the dungeon was top notch, and the final boss fight made me relive my Dark Souls days beatin up on Orns and Smough.

Ok, for those who still don’t understand the objections of people in this thread, here are a couple of parallels for you.

Example 1:
You’re coming up to the last boss of an instance. You’ve had great fun so far, and are looking for the final payoff. Suddenly a popup appears saying “You must purchase admission to the final boss encounter with 100 Badges Of Honor”, or “Event will not begun until your server controls Stonemist Keep!”.

Example 2:
Friday evening. The WvW ratings have just reset. You hop into your WvW borderlands to buy some siege, then try to port over to EB. Another message appears: “Sorry! Access to the Eternal Battlegrounds is only permitted when your server has control of all the Orrian Temples!”

This is how we non-Dungeoneers feel about this. We’ve been lead on by solo content then c*ckblocked hard with a 5-man dungeon, and we’re not happy about it.
Does this help explain things?

showatt.9413:

Nightshade.1493:

MatthewMedina.5419:

With all due respect, balancing content like a story instance is completely different than balancing an enhanced jumping puzzle like Super Adventure Box, so for us it just wasn’t feasible to consider doing an “easy” and “hard” mode in this particular case.

Instead we focused our time and energy into making a really unique, polished and hopefully memorable encounter that enables any group of five to complete in roughly an hour. I understand that there are players who will simply object philosophically to this direction, and wish that all the content we create to be solo-friendly, but our company has always been focused around building an online world that encourages our players to play our game together.

For those of you who have taken the plunge and shut down one of the Molten Facilities, thank you so much for giving it a try and giving us your feedback. Hope to see you on the front lines!

Hi Matthew,

I happened to read your response on the thread concerning the disappointment some players felt regarding the dungeon-based ending for flame and frost. I had posted on that thread as well, and although I do not believe your comment was responding to me directly, I wanted to reply to a particular portion of it:

“I understand that there are players who will simply object philosophically to this direction, and wish that all the content we create to be solo-friendly, but our company has always been focused around building an online world that encourages our players to play our game together.”

Personally, I am not idealogically opposed to content that is not solo friendly. I personally enjoy encountering dynamic events in the open world and joining in on the battle! And you all have crafted such a beautiful world!

The reason I left the game centers around my personal feeling that although there is a great deal of content one may experience as a solo player in the game, I felt there was virtually no content that one could experience to its conclusion as a solo player: Personal Story, Exploration, Living Story for examples.

That said, I know that each developer has their own philosophy regarding development and I respect that you have clarified that philosophy and intend to stick to your guns. I was feeling very moved at my disappointment in not being able to complete those three portions of the game I had enjoyed so much, that I wanted to let the team know that I was experiencing that disappointment.

Regards,
Matt (formerly Skade Thordottir)

I really don’t understand the difficulties some of you are facing.

How hard is it to just pug with people? Last time I tried I had no problem finishing the dungeon. The whole point of a MMO is so that you can play with other people. If you want to do everything by yourself you might as well play Skyrim or Dark Souls for that matter.

Hi Showmatt,

Oh yes, I have played Skyrim and Dark Souls. Amazing experiences. Exploring Tyria initially seemed like and amazing experience as well, I simply found myself unable to to enjoy that world to a satisfying extent with my playstyle. Just documenting my personal feelings. Glad the design does work for you however.

Matt

I think I have said all I wanted to say about 5 man dungeons at the end of solo content.

However I would like to say that the dungeon was excellent. I still stand by my earlier points but this was an enjoyable piece of gameplay.

Kript.3291:

Nightshade.1493:

MatthewMedina.5419:

With all due respect, balancing content like a story instance is completely different than balancing an enhanced jumping puzzle like Super Adventure Box, so for us it just wasn’t feasible to consider doing an “easy” and “hard” mode in this particular case.

Instead we focused our time and energy into making a really unique, polished and hopefully memorable encounter that enables any group of five to complete in roughly an hour. I understand that there are players who will simply object philosophically to this direction, and wish that all the content we create to be solo-friendly, but our company has always been focused around building an online world that encourages our players to play our game together.

For those of you who have taken the plunge and shut down one of the Molten Facilities, thank you so much for giving it a try and giving us your feedback. Hope to see you on the front lines!

Hi Matthew,

I happened to read your response on the thread concerning the disappointment some players felt regarding the dungeon-based ending for flame and frost. I had posted on that thread as well, and although I do not believe your comment was responding to me directly, I wanted to reply to a particular portion of it:

“I understand that there are players who will simply object philosophically to this direction, and wish that all the content we create to be solo-friendly, but our company has always been focused around building an online world that encourages our players to play our game together.”

Personally, I am not idealogically opposed to content that is not solo friendly. I personally enjoy encountering dynamic events in the open world and joining in on the battle! And you all have crafted such a beautiful world!

The reason I left the game centers around my personal feeling that although there is a great deal of content one may experience as a solo player in the game, I felt there was virtually no content that one could experience to its conclusion as a solo player: Personal Story, Exploration, Living Story for examples.

That said, I know that each developer has their own philosophy regarding development and I respect that you have clarified that philosophy and intend to stick to your guns. I was feeling very moved at my disappointment in not being able to complete those three portions of the game I had enjoyed so much, that I wanted to let the team know that I was experiencing that disappointment.

Regards,
Matt (formerly Skade Thordottir)

hhmmn you are ok playing with 100 players taking down Jormag but oppose the idea of playing with 5 players to take down the dungeon boss….

do you see your own contradiction?

Hi Kript,

I can see how that would seem contradictory. Let me add this to clarify. I enjoy immersing myself in gameworlds. As someone whose profession is in public service, I enjoy the escape. Coming upon a dynamic event in the gameworld adds to my immersion, in fact I can say that is one reason I enjoy being in an online world… it feels alive by virtue of having others present. However, when one joins a dungeon one should communicate with their group and strategize. I respect that, but it does break my immersion and thus is no longer an escape.

Hope that helps explain the seeming contradiction.
Matt

KorbanDallas.7389:

Dakan.9463:

But to say it again:
medical (some sicknesses prevent the needed reaction speed for coordinated groups)
time (some people cannot guarantee an hour of uninterrupted play)

It’s also not completely out of the question to try and set aside time to do things that take longer at a different time ahead of time – I mean, think about old school RPG games, with “save points.” Those where relentless to the player on a short time – but most of us adapted to make sure we didn’t play unless we were positive the time allowed it.

The thing is, some have babies/small kids. They play after they’ve put the kids to bed but there’s no way they can guarantee that the kids don’t wake during a dungeon run. Life happens.

As for medical conditions, it’s unfortunate. If everything was catered to a super-forgiving state, the “hardcore” crowd would throw a hissy, and a lot of the player base would whine and complain about how easy everything is (which a good portion of the vocal side of the forums do already).

Just to make it clear, I’m not asking for the game to be dumbed down. It’s fine as it is, I certainly don’t want easy-mode. It’s only dungeons I have a problem with because they are typically faster paced and harder. You need to be more on your toes, react quickly/dodge etc. coordinate your gameplay with others -just the kind of things I find very hard to do with my condition. And people depend on me being able to pull my weight. I need to play the game at my own pace, which is why I keep away from dungeons. This has never been a problem with any other MMOs I have played, I just do the open world quests and events and keep away from the dungeons, -no harm done, still plenty to do =) In GW2 however we are forced to group up and do a tough dungeon to see the end of our personal story. That’s a problem. We are also forced to group up to do the last part of a story that up to then has been soloable. I just want to be able to finish what I started. To not have a finish to stories is very unsatisfying. It’s as if all I did was for nothing, it was all just a waste of time. And no, watching how it all ends on youtube as some have mentioned is not the same. I want to experience it myself.

KorbanDallas.7389:

On the topic of time, GW2 is one of the most casual-friendly (from a time perspective) MMOs around. I can understand that people might have something suddenly came up – it happens to all of us some point or another – but assuming you are playing with friends I would like to imagine that most would be understanding as to time frames and do content accordingly. It’s also not completely out of the question to try and set aside time to do things that take longer at a different time ahead of time – I mean, think about old school RPG games, with “save points.” Those where relentless to the player on a short time – but most of us adapted to make sure we didn’t play unless we were positive the time allowed it.

Just 2 words: small children. Something can come up in a matter of seconds that you have no control over…

As to the difficulty of this dungeon

It’s not a difficulty question! Nobody here said that the dungeons should be easier. I think everyone said they are well designed. It is solely an issue of party size. A smaller party =/= easier content. At least it should not, with proper scaling.

This dungeon is by far the most awesome content I’ve ever seen in GW2… the final bossfight is finally something challenging and I really don’t understand why people complain about it…
Accept that this is an MMO, no singleplayer RPG.

@ Dakan & Rubina: Of course, if you have a baby, you’ll not have too much time for playing an mmo. But there are plenty of people out there who are considerate of that special situation. I don’t have a problem if a guildmate has to go afk for 20 minutes while we are in fractals of the mist. I don’t have a problem redoing a dungeon a second, third or fourth time, because somebody had to leave or could otherwise not participate. If your guildmates don’t care for your situation, you maybe are in the wrong guild…

MasterfulGaze.4167:

This is my personal playstyle. How any of you play the game has no affect on me whatsoever. You like dungeons? Have at it. Have fun. You interested in solo instances? They are out there. Knock yourself out. Everyone gets to do what is fun for them.

The problem is that anet is mixing the 2 playstyles together and at the worst possible place. The personal story/ living story should not have its climax of the story take place in a dungeon when everything leading up to the climax took place in solo instances. It makes no sense at all for anet to do that. Mixing these 2 playstyles are like mixing oil and water. It just doesn’t work well enough for everyone to enjoy themselves.

You assume theres only your way or the dungeon way there.

This is an ongoing story line of people banding together against the common foe (the player, rox, braham) and triumphing. It starts out slow, builds up and culminates in a raid against the enemy none of them could do alone. In gameplay terms, ends in a dungeon. It fits the story and I like it that way. It would be artificial to have the whole story require a group, it would be artificial to make the end soloable.

They chose the right with this buildup from solo to group experience and that made it much more enjoyable for us grey players. So now I kindly ask you to not see everything in only black and white.

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

MatthewMedina.5419:

…our company has always been focused around building an online world that encourages our players to play our game together.

If that was really true then the game should have either been released with an in-game party dungeon finder, or better yet dungeons wouldn’t be limited to 5 man instances. Won’t comment on dungeon yet till I give it a try, but is this going to be the “standard” fare in the future? Ending stuff with a 5 man instance, so that we can play together but separately?

And funny, they do a great job with getting people to play together in the open-world events without resorting to forcing people to group. If anything, forced-grouping makes a good many people play together less, becuase they’re sick of being put into the position of having to group instead of doing if they want to group. Very important difference there.

Thobek.1730:

some people need to man up and stop being such anti social introverts. It took me all of 2 seconds to join a group of random strangers and we all stepped in there and had a blast.

its not like you have to manage a friggin 20 man raid and organise healers, tanks etc.

Funny, that same situation of being forced to group with random strangers you have no interest in being teamed with is part of why I’ve ended up so ‘anti-social’ and avoid WoW-type raid dungeons like they were leprous plague-ridden harlots with HIV. Funny, I actually like ‘Public Events’ (the open-world events in GW2, Rifts and Invasions in Rift, the handful of Public Events from Champions, and heck, even some of the Bounty Mob missions in DCUO) where you just show up and do things, without having to be forced into a ‘group’. Maybe I’m not anti-social—I just react poorly to being rubber-hosed into groups.

Turgon.8625:

Just read over at massively that the living story ends with a 5 man instance. What a disappointment for all those out there who won’t go near that sort of content.

This feels exactly like the pain of the personal story.

You could do the entire 1-80 personal story solo except for the final mission where you suddenly had to go into a dungeon. I still don’t know how my story ends….

All the living story content has been doable solo so far, and I have very much enjoyed it – please don’t make this ending a 5 man! I am all for 5 mans being used for content just not for the culmination of a plot line that has been open to everyone so far.

I love GW2 but I would rather just logout then be forced into dungeon play.

Yeah same thing. I thought I had two instances to do, I did one… then this update happened with the stupid dungeon and now I go to where the story marker is but nothing happens and there’s nothing going on in the instance. To the south, there’s ANOTHER dungeon where i’m forced to party with people.

Jumping puzzles or dungeons… that’s all it is with these people.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I think there is a big misconception: Casual player (which I am too) doesn’t equal a bad player. I feel offended when you say: do something for the casual and make content easier. I love that the dungeon is harder than open world stuff (which imho is much too easy because doing autoattack isn’t really that fun to me) and wished that there are more challenges in the non-instanced areas of the game too, to prepare everyone for dungeon-difficulty.

Your suggestion is good, the team did it in SAB already: the easy-mode cloud. It could be done very easily: give Rox and Braham unlimited health and let them hit very very hard. It’s that easy, don’t care for balance, just make the npcs gods and lock away the rewards for the group running this. The reward for them is experiencing the story. Even if players die constantly, the heroes clear out the area and revive the players afterwards. Meanwhile the downed players can watch the epic battle. In this mode it doesn’t matter how many players are in the group, you can go in with 1 friend and experience the story. Or even alone.

I don’t agree that you should get the story-achievement for that though, since achievements shouldn’t work like that. I hate that you get an achievement for everything nowadays: log in —> achievement; get lv.10 --> achievement. Achievements should show off accomplishment of managing difficult barriers in the game imho. Something to work for, not something that falls from the sky.

The fact that the dungeon is only available for a short time is also devestating for bad players. They can’t take the time they need to become better in this dungeon. Drift here can try it two times (he plays together with his group 2h / Week) and then it’s gone. Meh.

Heh. Extremist much? Speaking of misconceptions—the ‘Infantile’ mode in SAB does absolutely nothing with regard to the enemies. All it does, as far as I can tell, is provide shortcuts across the harder jumping puzzles, and safer places to stand in the Toad boss fight. That’s it.

And as far as the rest of your suggestion—like I said, extremist much? People aren’t asking for a cakewalk here, they’re asking for a reasonably challenging instance for a single player alongside Rox and Braham. They accomplished this nicely with Rox and Braham’s individual missions in the previous LS section, they accomplish this nicely with pretty much every other single instanced mission in the game outside of the entirely optional (except for that blasted last one. :-( ) Destiny’s Edge Dungeons, and they accomplished this with all of the dungeon-like story missions (as opposed to the handful of actual Dungeons) in GW1. So what’s their problem (or perhaps I should say, poor excuse?) here?
I had a lot of fun with the previous pair of instances, since despite being sent to respawn quite a few times, I was able to keep making progress—unless something changes, I can’t even get past the first room in this one, with how quick all the NPCs I’d be expecting to help me—including Rox and Braham—go down, in places it’s impossible to get them rezzed without getting taken out yourself.

Thobek.1730:

see you’re exactly the sensitive type I’m talking about. Actually forcing people to work well with others can be good for people. It breaks them out of their shell.

I’m just glad there are people out there that enjoy meeting and playing these dungeons with others otherwise this game would be one depressing MMO where everyone just runs around doing everything solo.

Forcing people to work with others (as opposed to encouraging them but not requiring them to, like the various open-world ‘group’ events do) is also a way to drive them further into their shells—or worse, into a psychotic breakdown—as they’re reminded there was a good reason they couldn’t stand being forced to work with others in the first place.

As for the other bit—that sounds like pretty much the ideal way to play, myself. You run around getting things done without either having to worry that you’re messing things up for someone else, or they’re messing things up for you (You should try DCUO holiday event Alerts sometime—getting stuck with an endless stream of people who fail to comprehend the concept of ‘Use the interactable before the boss releases a room-filling attack’, despite that very instruction being put in LARGE BRIGHT LETTERS on their screens is an excellent way to burst blood vessels and cause cerebral hemmoraging.) You can chat with others with related interests (mutual interest in the game, at least), and if you want to, can buddy up with a friend to do shared tasks (unfortunately, the people I would have wanted to team with, either burned out on the game not too long after release, or are too busy doing other things to play), but aren’t forced to do so against your will just to finish a story.

This dungeon was quite fun. I liked it a lot and think it was executed well. If the other dungeons were built in a similar way, I’d probably have less complaints. I still think the end of the personal story being a dungeon is ‘meh’ to say the least. I would have much preferred if it were made into a solo instance that can scale from 1-5 players. If not solo-able, I hope they revise the way the old story dungeons are done to match this one.

This dungeon is challenging and fun, but still accessible. Other dungeons are uninviting, tedious and slow. I don’t have a problem with grouping as long as it’s justified by good design.

Weindrasi.3805:

I don’t understand why you guys are so opposed to dungeons. You don’t have to speak to anyone, and in this case you don’t really have to wait for a party either—someone will post LFG every couple minutes, you type their name in the invite box, and done. If four other people were doing the same dynamic event as you, you wouldn’t mind, and might actually welcome the help. So why not just think of this as a dynamic event with four other players in the vicinity? It’s just about that easy

In that case—why not just make it a dynamic event, like the Maw, Fire Elemental, and the like are? That’s what’s so disgusting about learning that the end of the Personal Story is a WoW-Raid. It would make far more sense to make it an event like the above, placed in an instance/zone you can only access once you’ve completed the rest of the Personal Story. Or for that matter, make it solo to begin with—after all, it’s the Personal Story, not ‘Personal + 4 other random goobers + Failed-Raid-Group-After-Their-Afterschool-Special-Reunion’.

Kript.3291:

hhmmn you are ok playing with 100 players taking down Jormag but oppose the idea of playing with 5 players to take down the dungeon boss….

do you see your own contradiction?

There would have to be a contradiction involved, first. There is a major difference between a dynamic event where you just show up and fight, which scales to how many or how few are there, and where you can drop out at any point without concern, and a dungeon where you have to specifically and explicitly create a group in order to do the run. If there was a ‘queue for PUG’ system similar to the Alerts in DCUO, it might be vaguely tolerable (other than being stuck in a formal group with 4 random goobs, potentially having to carry them), but if they dropped this Dungeon garbage and made both the LS and PS enders into dynamic events that’d solve the problem entirely.

Thsi does also beg a question, BTW—why in blazes can you fight Jormag with a force 100 strong, but only 5 at a time can fight Zhaitan? ;-) That Personal Story ender keeps making less and less narrative sense every time I look at it.

Rubina.9482:

Thobek.1730:

Alphonse.4356:

This is a game we pay to play, not a military style boot camp designed to change our behavior. You are exactly the type of person the causes me to dislike forced groups.

That’s ok, nobody is forcing you to do anything.
If you miss out because your too shy to play with others its your loss, not mine.

---

snip
That was the whole point see, we ARE being forced to do dungeons, – if we want to see the end of our personal story and the living story, all which up to then had been soloable. Otherwise it’s like having read a whole book and then had the last chapter torn out. Of course we would like to see the ending.
And you still don’t get it, .there are many who hate doing dungeons with a passion, and those who can’t do them because of health reasons, like myself as I said previously. It’s not because we’re SHY. If we were that shy we wouldn’t have picked a mmo to play , we’d only be playing solo RPGs were we were sure to never have to interact with other people.

Exactly
Every time I see someone reply with that ‘Wah, if you don’t want to be forced into a group, why are you playing a MMO’ garbage, I want to reach through the net and smack them upside the head. There’s a lot more to playing and interacting with other people in a game than just forming Raid Groups, after all.

Tachenon.5270:

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

So after spending around 3.5+ hours in that dungeon I can safely say: I’m glad that’s over and I don’t intend on ever doing it again. Better than standard dungeons? Sure. Fun? Hell no.

Just did this dungeon with a PuG. My experience was considerably less painful than yours, thank goodness, but even so I was often somewhat confused about what was going on. As in, what the heck am I trying to dodge? Why are there red circles everywhere? What’s the point of trying to get out of one when the only place to go is into another one? Also – my warrior was killed by being knocked off the platform, but somehow landed… back on the platform? I’m assuming there was a wizard involved.

Got through it though, and I don’t think I embarrassed myself too badly. I let the group know before we started that I was a total dungeon noob. They were all quite nice. Nobody yelled at me, anyway.

Heh. It was better, in my opinion, than the dungeon at the end of the (im)personal story, but then again that’s like saying that it’s better to be mauled by a lion than by a tiger.

Anyway, that’s done, and now I know what to expect from future ‘living stories’.

My experiences were similar to both of yours.

I think its important that the Devs at ANet get solid feedback on this from all sides of the community. The dungeon runners apparently loved it, but a lot of the rest of the community did not. I fall into the other percentage of non-dungeon running people.

For me, I was left bewildered and somewhat angry that this is what the Devs thought everyone should have to experience as an end to the Living Story. It leaves me feeling they aren’t really in touch with their entire playerbase. Slapping on a dungeon to cap off content and story which was previously completed in a radically different manner, for me, left a lot to be desired.

See, I thought the final dungeon was brutal. In particular, the Boss encounter at the end. It echoes the experiences of others, including the two quoted above. It was, for me, the polar opposite of fun. My party consisted of veteran dungeon players, and me. We spent 2 hours inside, wiped 3 times, and I died so many times I was left completely naked when we finished. I didn’t feel challenged. I left frustrated and feeling like I let my team down.

I think you need options to end your Story lines. Right now, if a player wants to see the logical conclusion they have to run a dungeon. There has been enough feedback from the Personal Story ending that I thought you would know that not everyone likes this type of grande finale.

I won’t be doing that dungeon again, or any other in this game.

showatt.9413:

Myst Dawnbringer.9138:

Because a lot of players would have skipped it. I would like a refund please.

I wasn’t aware that we had to pay for the living story.
Oh wait, we didn’t.
If I can get a refund for every game i’ve played for about 80% of the content I’d be a millionaire.

Heh. I’m kinda torn here. Part of me agrees with the whole ‘Want a refund’ thing (and yes, we did have to pay for the Living Story…see that bit where you paid $40/$60/$80/whatever for Guild Wars 2?

OTOH…for once you’re actually quite right—what’s really aggravating about this whole situation is that for the 99.9% of the game before you hit these two points (the end-of-story dungeons for Personal and Living Stories) is great, and well worth the price.
That’s the primary factor that’s making people so frothingly livid about the situation, to be honest—the entire rest of the game is wonderful, and then it gets pants-on-head/thumb-up-backside stupid right at the finish line.

Mastruq.2463:

You assume theres only your way or the dungeon way there.

Nope, there’s only the dungeon way, period. That’s the whole problem. I’ve got no problems with people who like the stuff, or have a solid enough clique to do it. But to force that as the ending of content that up until then has been nothing of the sort, and provide no opprortunities to do the content in the same fashion you’ve been doing the entire rest of the content? Gamekiller, really. It’s not a ‘Your way OR the dungeon way’, it’s calling for ‘Your way AND the dungeon way.’

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

Alright so here’s my experience with the dungeon tonight (spoilers to follow):

-snip-

it’s actually possible to jump over the shockwaves, I’m not sure if it’s possible with the fire-shockwave too, since it has a limited range I tried to stay away as far away as possible from the boss and run away even farther when the firewaves emerges.

this guide might be useful for you:
http://dulfy.net/2013/04/30/gw2-molten-weapon-facilities-dungeon-guide/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gw2-molten-weapon-facilities-dungeon-guide
thanks to Dulfy, as always

Thanks Marcus (and Dulfy), however as the guide (and my random dungeon allies) said:
“All you need to do jump whenever the shockwave comes to you”

This isn’t the case for me. When I do that it’s too late. I have to jump/evade almost before the shockwave even starts (or as soon as it does). It didn’t really matter in the mini-boss battle because they are survivable, but at the end it’s pretty much instant game-over especially when the guy does 4 in a row.

Wondering if it’s a lag type issue… how long do you have when the red circles appear from the fire guy? For me I have to dodge out of them as soon as they show up. Normal running means I get hit/burned because it’s too slow. I am ok with that as I thought that was normal – but maybe other people actually see the circles for a bit longer and can stroll out?

I’m with Illysharia on this one and hope you put options to end future storylines.
Here are some options you could have done for this one, just off the top of my head.

1 – Dungeon – Molten Facilities, rescue prisoners etc as is (though maybe change it so that you don’t leave them to die in the explosion?)
2 – World Event (as rare or rarer than dragons) – Stopping the march of Massive Molten Army in random zone. Quite possibly use a quest chain too.
3 – Jumping Puzzle (ala clocktower) – Infiltrate the Molten Core and plant a bomb
4 – Guild Bounty – Hunt down a Molten Leader

Vulpis.8063:

the entire rest of the game is wonderful, and then it gets pants-on-head/thumb-up-backside stupid right at the finish line.

an earnest question: are you a player who enjoys a challenge? If yes, where do you find it outside of dungeons?

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

Wondering if it’s a lag type issue… how long do you have when the red circles appear from the fire guy? For me I have to dodge out of them as soon as they show up. Normal running means I get hit/burned because it’s too slow. I am ok with that as I thought that was normal – but maybe other people actually see the circles for a bit longer and can stroll out?

I wonder, are you in melee or at range, when trying to jump over the waves/rings? Personally I find dodging towards them much safer than dodging backwards.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

Wondering if it’s a lag type issue… how long do you have when the red circles appear from the fire guy? For me I have to dodge out of them as soon as they show up. Normal running means I get hit/burned because it’s too slow. I am ok with that as I thought that was normal – but maybe other people actually see the circles for a bit longer and can stroll out?

I wonder, are you in melee or at range, when trying to jump over the waves/rings? Personally I find dodging towards them much safer than dodging backwards.

I was at range on bow when trying to jump or dodge over, and it would always be towards the shockwave since I was too scared about falling off the edge. Not that it mattered because I did. I fell so hard I landed back on the platform. ;p

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

I was at range on bow when trying to jump or dodge over, and it would always be towards the shockwave since I was too scared about falling off the edge. Not that it mattered because I did. I fell so hard I landed back on the platform. ;p

Huh? I guess it’s a lag issue then. A friend told me during the encounter that some waves are targeted for jumping players, but I guess that’s not the sort of wave you are talking about.

I want social contact but I still want a the spontaneous world we were promised not the 5 man instance I can get on WoW! I love the dragon battles. I want content at the end of F & F like the Southsun Cove Krait battle. Put us in an instance if you have to but make it like that Krait battle and the Madd King PvE areas. You show glimpses of creativity then run away form it to boring dungeons. Probably because they are easy and cheap to do. Well, I have to say that I have spent more on this game than about 5 years of subscriptions to WoW. So I have bought a lot of gems. I have 5 level 80 toons , a 74, 38 and a 10 one in each class. So I’ve spent the money and you have not delivered on your promises.

I got no problem with dungeons being in the game as many people like this form of play. But they should be an add on and not part of the story line of the game. My problem is that my not liking to do them is keeping me from progressing through the game. Can’t finish my personal story. Can’t finish the Living Story. And putting stuff in the dungeons you cannot get anywhere else is just nuts, so like WoW it makes me want to scream and wear my coat inside out.

So you need to rethink the whole end of F &F and go back and do a real ending worthy of GW2.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Vulpis.8063:

the entire rest of the game is wonderful, and then it gets pants-on-head/thumb-up-backside stupid right at the finish line.

an earnest question: are you a player who enjoys a challenge? If yes, where do you find it outside of dungeons?

The rest of the game, particularly when I poke into areas meant for people with more AoE attacks and higher gearing than I possess, or go back to lower level zones and solo some of the events ‘meant’ for groups with my higher-level weapons and armor (you can not do that with a dungeon). Part of why this is so aggravating is that the previous pair of instances with Rox and Braham separately were great, with me getting trounced unless I played them intelligently. For that matter, I very much enjoyed the old GW1 missions which were also at core designed for parties—with Heroes and Henchmen provided to replace the need for other players in their roles (and part of the challenge coming from selecting appropriate ones and managing them properly).

I dont know where you get the idea that your way (doing it solo from start to finish) should be applied in every case. My way (slow start solo and ramp up into group content) has been used exactly ONCE in the entire game. Only once, at the end of the last personal story chapter. That’s it.

This is the second time. I welcome that without begrudging the dungeon players or the solo open world players. Would be nice to receive the same courtesy of you just accepting that although you dont like the way this chapter of the living story is done, others might appreciate this approach to story telling.

The whole rest of GW2 is 80% your way and 20% the dungeons-from-start-to-finish way (destiny’s edge story entirely through dungeon chains). I think both those methods have received enough attention and will continue to receive the by far greatest share of attention.

Vulpis.8063:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Vulpis.8063:

the entire rest of the game is wonderful, and then it gets pants-on-head/thumb-up-backside stupid right at the finish line.

an earnest question: are you a player who enjoys a challenge? If yes, where do you find it outside of dungeons?

The rest of the game, particularly when I poke into areas meant for people with more AoE attacks and higher gearing than I possess, or go back to lower level zones and solo some of the events ‘meant’ for groups with my higher-level weapons and armor (you can not do that with a dungeon). Part of why this is so aggravating is that the previous pair of instances with Rox and Braham separately were great, with me getting trounced unless I played them intelligently. For that matter, I very much enjoyed the old GW1 missions which were also at core designed for parties—with Heroes and Henchmen provided to replace the need for other players in their roles (and part of the challenge coming from selecting appropriate ones and managing them properly).

well GW1 had player-targeted heals, so the AI could easily compensate their bad movement by just healing away the damage done. This wouldn’t work the same way as in GW1 here, since everyone has to look out for himself to stay alive. I would love to see Anet making it work, but the result would be different than GW1s way – NPCs would have to use skills to avoid damage + dodge out of aoe without dodging into another aoe + … well they would have to do a lot more than just tank & spank.

May I ask how long you are playing the game? I got my exotics via crafting a few weeks after creating the character, so either you are new to the game or you aren’t priorizing gearing up – which shouldn’t be a problem if you know where to find exotic gear. (Orr-Events, crafting, WvW badges, trading post; if you don’t like to do dungeons).
STILL I can’t see a big difference between rare and exotic gear to be honest. I just don’t feel the difference during battle.

It’s interesting that you found the previous missions with Rox and Braham difficult when not played intelligently. I probably should have tried those with worse gear, wearing exotics those were pretty straight-forward non strategic tank & spank without the need for any other key than autoattack 1 & some dodges. May I ask what gear you’re wearing?

And which profession you’re playing? I’ve heard that difficulty varies a lot between the professions. I’m playing Mesmer and most of the time I manage to put out enough clones so that enemies are too confused to find the true me. My friend plays a warrior and he can take a lot of beating, a Ele-friend though said that he is quite challenged fighting champions or certain events.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Vulpis.8063:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Vulpis.8063:

the entire rest of the game is wonderful, and then it gets pants-on-head/thumb-up-backside stupid right at the finish line.

an earnest question: are you a player who enjoys a challenge? If yes, where do you find it outside of dungeons?

The rest of the game, particularly when I poke into areas meant for people with more AoE attacks and higher gearing than I possess, or go back to lower level zones and solo some of the events ‘meant’ for groups with my higher-level weapons and armor (you can not do that with a dungeon). Part of why this is so aggravating is that the previous pair of instances with Rox and Braham separately were great, with me getting trounced unless I played them intelligently. For that matter, I very much enjoyed the old GW1 missions which were also at core designed for parties—with Heroes and Henchmen provided to replace the need for other players in their roles (and part of the challenge coming from selecting appropriate ones and managing them properly).

May I ask how long you are playing the game? I got my exotics via crafting a few weeks after creating the character, so either you are new to the game or you aren’t priorizing gearing up – which shouldn’t be a problem if you know where to find exotic gear. (Orr-Events, crafting, WvW badges, trading post; if you don’t like to do dungeons).
STILL I can’t see a big difference between rare and exotic gear to be honest. I just don’t feel the difference during battle.

It’s interesting that you found the previous missions with Rox and Braham difficult when not played intelligently. I probably should have tried those with worse gear, wearing exotics those were pretty straight-forward non strategic tank & spank without the need for any other key than autoattack 1 & some dodges. May I ask what gear you’re wearing?

And which profession you’re playing? I’ve heard that difficulty varies a lot between the professions. I’m playing Mesmer and most of the time I manage to put out enough clones so that enemies are too confused to find the true me. My friend plays a warrior and he can take a lot of beating, a Ele-friend though said that he is quite challenged fighting champions or certain events.

checks I started a little before the end of February.
But yeah—I’ve been playing in a semi-casual mode, more looking at clearing map exploration (mostly working upwards by levels—I’m doing the 45-55 ranges now, mostly, despite having hit cap a couple weeks back) along with slow crafting progression (haven’t hit 200 yet in either one, though I’m focusing more on Leatherworking for the bags) than trying to get exotics. Heck, the rares I have are mostly not even L80, either (did pick up the Cultral Weapons though, as I have lots and lots of Karma from that map-clearing as well as events of various sorts along the way).
As for what I’m playing, I’m running a thief, though not a particularly optimized one as yet (I really need to get around to picking up my Grandmaster book at some point, and re-doing Traits), mainly dual-pistol. I really need to sit down and practice dagger combos, really—there was a nice posting I saw on the forum a while back about a signet-based thief build that went into the combos you can do while switching weapons.
Like I said, the instances were at least something of a play-skill challenge—if I made the mistake of going Leroy Jenkins into middle of the group—intentionally or by accident, I generally get my head handed to me, but if I hang back at the end of pistol range and peel them off one or two at a time, they go down fairly easily.

OTOH, I don’t even get that option in that blasted Dungeon. First encounter, I’m road-kill…the only reason I was able to take one down is because I managed to get my one ‘summon’ (I use the elite skill that summons a pair of thieves) out, and after that, there wasn’t enough room in the place to pull one off without aggroing the rest right on top of me—and trying to dodge around to wait out cooldowns ran me right into the rest as well. :-/ No chance to revive the NPCs, either, as the enemies were standing on them.

Vulpis.8063:

-snip- lv, thief

well this explains a lot. I’m not sure how good or bad scaling is for low level players in those new missions but you have to know that you get quite powerful once max. level. You don’t even need exotic gear imho to feel that way. Now think about how many players are lv.80 for quite a while now. It shouldn’t surprise you that these people (me included) miss the challenge they got when playing as low level characters. Not everyone wants to constantly reroll to get this feeling back.

Me, as a lv.80 player for a few months now, I can’t find a lot of challenging encounters in the open world anymore. Metaevent-bosses are a joke (spam 1) and this leaves a few very fun and difficult god-temples in Orr.

I tried thief once, it was a quite fun and painful (but fun fun fun) experience. It’s this risk-reward feeling going into the battles, doing a few melee moves and then moving out again. Dual-pistols felt a bit lackluster to me, but maybe I was doing it wrong.

I understand now that you must be frustrated trying that dungeon as a low level thief. I re-read your posts and agree, this could have been a dynamic event – but a lot of things should be considered then:

-) anti-zerg mechanics since everyone would want to do this event at the same time. We’ve seen what had happened to the Karka event: it was unplayable because of lag / other technical issues. Culling is still there in PvE too.

-) you have no scripted storytelling in a non-instanced area. I did the dungeon (even though I prefer outdoor-events) and it was very well scripted which provided us with a decent athmosphere. This made an awesome experience. Could this be done outside of dungeons? Well people can come in anytime… except there is a locking-mechanism where you have to be there at a certain point in time, go in and then the door closes behind you.

idea incoming

Could be interesting, I don’t know. An instance which starts every 5 minutes and people can go in without the need for grouping. People who die need to be rezzed or they have to leave the dungeon (and try a new run from the start – pretty brutal). So only the best would make it to the end. Or make it more forgiving and add waypoints like in every dungeon. This would make it more likely that the bosses can be zerged. (need of some decent anti-zerg mechanics here).