Guild Wars 2

An Error Prevented Saving:

Flood Control: Please wait 300 seconds between posts!

When was this implemented and why? Can ArenaNet not afford forum bandwidth any longer? Should we go back to mailing letters by parcel post and have them typeset into newspapers? I’ve never had this message pop up before today. It is infuriating.

I like the idea. It reinforced good forums habits, and would possibly help curb bad habits, allowing posters to pull back from bad behavior and prevent themselves from being banned.

Its not a feature, its a bug.
Come on this is so annyoing, waiting 5 min to post again.
Welcome to stone age.

Necro’ing this thread(sort of). Yeah, this is a bit rediculous.

I had a few paragraphs typed out, but in the interest of being blindly infracted, I deleted it. I will simply say that I find this ‘punishment’ to be a bit excessive.

How long does this type of punishment last? I added a haiku to the GW2 Jokes thread and wound up with three points, a three day ban and now this. For a haiku.

Seems quite excessive.

CC Danicia.1394:

It wasn’t that you wrote a haiku, it was the content which was problematic. Flood control will drop off over time. That time is based on how many active infraction points you have at one time.

My apologies… I understand it was the content, I just felt that, having already used that same haiku on the forums in multiple other joke threads without issue, that it was subtle enough to be acceptable. But what’s done is done I suppose. I don’t see why it’s in addition to a ban either.

Can you share any numbers on how quickly this drops off? There have been people asking questions that I can give helpful, honest answers to and I find I can’t due to this additional punishment.

Thanks for responding Danicia, by the way. It is appreciated.

(By the way, did you see the haiku? Do you personally think it’s really that bad? Did you not giggle?)

By the way, if you look at my other jokes in this thread I hope it’s clear I was trying to add legit humor as opposed to some of the hater comments in there.

Lol I feel like I’m never gonna get off the 300 sec forum cool down unless I just stop posting for a month. Mods are pretty sensitive these days.

clint.5681:

Lol I feel like I’m never gonna get off the 300 sec forum cool down unless I just stop posting for a month. Mods are pretty sensitive these days.

Right?

Kinda afraid to voice an opinion in fear that people will report me for not agreeing with them.

Then again, there are a couple posters on flood control that I’m really glad that they are. Trolls, man, trolls….

CC Danicia.1394:

Howdy again,

We don’t give out the numbers, because too many people will game the system.

I suppose I can appreciate those concerns. But in all honesty, I’m a 48 year old dad, not really here to be a troublemaker.

So… did you like any of my jokes in that thread at least? (Toss me a bone here!)

VOLKON.1290:

CC Danicia.1394:

Howdy again,

We don’t give out the numbers, because too many people will game the system.

I suppose I can appreciate those concerns. But in all honesty, I’m a 48 year old dad, not really here to be a troublemaker.

So… did you like any of my jokes in that thread at least? (Toss me a bone here!)

Can you please PM it to me I’m sure I’ll LOL all over the place. I promise I’d never report. A PM ^^

Edit: of course he can’t. Darn it!

Are we allowed to discuss this aspect of moderation in this specific thread?

Ok.
I think flood control is a very effective punitive measure. Its implementation has had drastic effects on the quality of posts in the forums. The fear of having an increased flood control timer acts as a powerful deterrent against posters who tend to “break the rules of the code of conduct”.
It seems to me that this measure is timely. It is indeed a very good response against the increasing number of posts expressing ever growing frustration and distrusts in a manner that “breaks the rules” towards Anet. “Flood control” has definitely prevented a lot of underlying concerns to ever reach the public, or the devs, due to them “breaking the rules”.
In this sense I praise the mods for their inventiveness and efficiency. I am sure that the forumers feel safer and that the developers have been shielded from all illegal negativity. The management team at Anet must be proud of their protective moderation team and they are right to be so.

Is it allowed to discuss the causes of flood control, such as the relation between infraction points and the code of conduct?

You are perfectly right. Some people are definitely doing abuses and they should suffer the consequences of their acts.

If also completely agree that moderation could use a little bit more explaning, mainly on a number of topics such as (but not limited to):
- what is a breach of the code of conduct (apparently they can infract you for things that are not mentioned there, I think such policy should be mentioned there)
- how the forum code of conduct also applies to third party websites (not owned by anet)
- how they explains why a post breached the code of conduct (so as to avoid fake reasons, so posters can make informed decisions)
- how they decide how many infraction points they give ( so players better understand how serious their offenses are)
And many other things.
This way forum abusers will know how to stay in line!

Yeah just taking away sigs and putting people on forum cool downs randomly doesn’t make things clear at all.

Edit: kinda got ninja’d lol -_-

Making things clear would be highly appreciated.

If I am allowed to make side notes too then as a side note I would say that making things clear is all I am asking for in my email appeal, with no still answer from your part, but I would be perfectly fine with you clarifying things on the forums instead of replying to my ticket.

Some time will have to go by to see if these new approaches will work. It seems to be easier than trying to get their support staff on the same page when it comes to handling problems.. Since they always have the upper hand with the ability to claim “interpretation”, they can bend any rule any way they see fit and you’ll simply never win.

I’m currently fighting a few battles with the forum/customer support (some of the worse I’ve ever encountered) and it seems if you don’t praise you get infracted. I really wish they’d focus on the core, themselves, before approaching other avenues, even if they need to be addressed down the road.

Teege.4623:

Some time will have to go by to see if these new approaches will work. It seems to be easier than trying to get their support staff on the same page when it comes to handling problems.. Since they always have the upper hand with the ability to claim “interpretation”, they can bend any rule any way they see fit and you’ll simply never win.

I’m currently fighting a few battles with the forum/customer support (some of the worse I’ve ever encountered) and it seems if you don’t praise you get infracted.

That hasn’t been my experience at all. On the contrary, I believe the aggressive moderation to be instrumental in making these forums one of the better game forums I’ve participated on. On the admittedly few occasions that I’ve contacted the moderators to appeal an infraction, they’ve been very reasonable. I’ve never had enough infraction points pile up to be punished though.

I prefer the rules be written to allow the folks enforcing the rules to use their best judgement, because there will never be a rule that covers every possible permutation of every situation. That can work in our favor in situations where we might have broken the letter of the law, but not the spirit of it, and likewise the folks won’t be able to get around the spirit of the law by adhering to the letter of it.

I really don’t find it that difficult to avoid getting infracted. Don’t call people names. Don’t be vulgar. Keep on topic. Be civil when you disagree with someone.

Nothing you can do when people/mods take what you said out of context or think there is some hidden evil meaning behind what you said and give you an infraction. Also when people disagree and spam report you. Im not saying thats the only way to get infractions because I know ive said plenty of things that i knew the mods wouldnt agree with, so now im here lol.

I really would like to know how long this 300 second thing is supposed to last but I understand why you wouldnt give that info. What i do want is some kind of warning/infraction point counter that links to the reason why you got the infraction. The PMs are horribly generic, plus if you could see how close you are to getting banned or whatever that would be helpful.

Personally (and I’m admittedly biased because it happened to be, but don’t tell anyone), I think the punishments aren’t really bad. However I feel in my non-biased (yet admittedly biased) opinion that combining the Flood Gate with the fact that I already served a three day suspension seems rather extreme. I don’t think (and correct me if I’m wrong) that I’m a generally troublesome person on the forums so it feels a bit heavy-handed to place this much punishment right out of the gate like this. What’s frustrating especially is seeing people asking questions I can answer and not being able to do so because of the timer thing.

I could see an initial offense bringing the flood gate out, even before a ban. Believe me, it’s quite the deterrent. If the deterrent isn’t enough, then add on the hiatus. So, yeah, this is ultimately a personal plea for mercy wrapped inside of a discussion on the punishments.

I swear, Danicia, with all that I am that I’ll never involve the Tengu (and possible studies into their biological nature) in a haiku again on the forums! It’s stunning the issues seventeen little syllables has caused me…

The jump straight to a five minute wait for flood control (based on what I’ve seen) seems a little harsh, I agree.

Pandemoniac.4739:

I prefer the rules be written to allow the folks enforcing the rules to use their best judgement, because there will never be a rule that covers every possible permutation of every situation. That can work in our favor in situations where we might have broken the letter of the law, but not the spirit of it, and likewise the folks won’t be able to get around the spirit of the law by adhering to the letter of it.

Yeah, as long as the “feel” for the grey area is kept the same by the moderating team (and to me it feels like it has, over all) grey areas benefit the forum goers more than it harms.

clint.5681:

Nothing you can do when people/mods take what you said out of context or think there is some hidden evil meaning behind what you said and give you an infraction. Also when people disagree and spam report you. Im not saying thats the only way to get infractions because I know ive said plenty of things that i knew the mods wouldnt agree with, so now im here lol.

I get where you’re coming from – I had a poster edit their post to make my response look bad once the context was changed. I quote a lot more posts these days I just sucked it up because it really was partly my fault – that post wasn’t exactly my best work lol. Sometimes it’s not what you’re saying but how you say it.

Folks can’t spam report you. Posts can only get reported once – I know because I have clicked the report flag on many a post that is under review. I don’t know if that is true about reporting folks through their profile. You always have to include an explanation of why you’re reporting what you’re reporting though and my impression is that the moderators do some investigation to see if the report is merited.

I can’t deny that sometimes folks get infracted for gray area stuff where maybe a different moderator would have made a different judgement call, but the punishments only impact the forums, and they’re temporary unless you went way across the line.

If folks were getting banned from the game I would expect a little more consistency and rigor, but for the forums, a little on the overly strict side keeps things from getting out of hand, even though some folks get inconvenienced (perhaps unfairly) every once in a while.

clint.5681:

Lol I feel like I’m never gonna get off the 300 sec forum cool down unless I just stop posting for a month. Mods are pretty sensitive these days.

Wait, 300 seconds?

How did I wind up with 600 seconds then?

An Error Prevented Saving:
Flood Control: Please wait 600 seconds between posts!

Now I feel like someone really went overboard with this punishment.

VOLKON.1290:

clint.5681:

Lol I feel like I’m never gonna get off the 300 sec forum cool down unless I just stop posting for a month. Mods are pretty sensitive these days.

Wait, 300 seconds?

How did I wind up with 600 seconds then?

An Error Prevented Saving:
Flood Control: Please wait 600 seconds between posts!

Now I feel like someone really went overboard with this punishment.

I got 1 infraction point, and had a 60 second flood control. A couple weeks later, a second infraction point, and it was increased to 120. I think the flood control lasts a month, and the severity is reliant on the number of infraction penalties you have active at the moment.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

VOLKON.1290:

clint.5681:

Lol I feel like I’m never gonna get off the 300 sec forum cool down unless I just stop posting for a month. Mods are pretty sensitive these days.

Wait, 300 seconds?

How did I wind up with 600 seconds then?

An Error Prevented Saving:
Flood Control: Please wait 600 seconds between posts!

Now I feel like someone really went overboard with this punishment.

I got 1 infraction point, and had a 60 second flood control. A couple weeks later, a second infraction point, and it was increased to 120. I think the flood control lasts a month, and the severity is reliant on the number of infraction penalties you have active at the moment.

Yikes. Well, apparently it was a three-point haiku, which surprised me to no end since what was deemed inappropriate was so subtly hinted at. I guess it bothers me that it was meant as good, clean humorous innuendo and I got slammed while other posters in the same thread are insulting the game and ArenaNet without anyone apparently caring.

VOLKON.1290:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

VOLKON.1290:

clint.5681:

Lol I feel like I’m never gonna get off the 300 sec forum cool down unless I just stop posting for a month. Mods are pretty sensitive these days.

Wait, 300 seconds?

How did I wind up with 600 seconds then?

An Error Prevented Saving:
Flood Control: Please wait 600 seconds between posts!

Now I feel like someone really went overboard with this punishment.

I got 1 infraction point, and had a 60 second flood control. A couple weeks later, a second infraction point, and it was increased to 120. I think the flood control lasts a month, and the severity is reliant on the number of infraction penalties you have active at the moment.

Yikes. Well, apparently it was a three-point haiku, which surprised me to no end since what was deemed inappropriate was so subtly hinted at. I guess it bothers me that it was meant as good, clean humorous innuendo and I got slammed while other posters in the same thread are insulting the game and ArenaNet without anyone apparently caring.

There is not a single part of me that understands how that haiku is worse than the garbage that spews from several posters’ keyboards every day (including my own). I called someone a dirty scrub yesterday and didn’t even get a warning.

I think there’s an issue sometimes with specific moderator sensitivity. Some really care more about things that even myself, as a teacher, put up with daily from my students (which is normal nowadays). I’m not sure why you were treated so harshly. I definitely deserve a 300 s flood control, but I can’t see how that haiku does.

CC Danicia.1394:

Volkon, let me check your points to verify they’re correct. You should have already had a reduction in points after our discussion.

cheers for VOLKON

GL my friend!

Thank you Danicia, it’s appreciated.

Oh, and for anyone that may be wondering, I will only post the haiku one more time here, in spoiler tags, and with Danicia’s expressed permission to do so if it’s determined to be relevant to the overall discussion in this thread.

VOLKON.1290:

Thank you Danicia, it’s appreciated.

Oh, and for anyone that may be wondering, I will only post the haiku one more time here, in spoiler tags, and with Danicia’s expressed permission to do so if it’s determined to be relevant to the overall discussion in this thread.

Oh, it’s relevant. XD

I must say, I am curious about this infamous haiku!

Yay for Volkon!

Also, Ty Danicia for looking into it…. It’s nice to know that there’s a little bit of benefit of the doubt coming along.

Thanks Danicia. The message seems a bit odd… it says it went from a warning with zero points to an infraction with one point when initially I was told three points, but if the numbers are correct then that’s what matters.

CC Danicia.1394:

Yah, we’d like to update more fixes on the back end, but really, once the numbers are sorted, it’s all good.

Well, I appreciate your help in this, greatly.

Now that that’s sorted… you never did mention if you liked the haiku or any of the other jokes in that thread. They’re all originals.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

VOLKON.1290:

Thank you Danicia, it’s appreciated.

Oh, and for anyone that may be wondering, I will only post the haiku one more time here, in spoiler tags, and with Danicia’s expressed permission to do so if it’s determined to be relevant to the overall discussion in this thread.

Oh, it’s relevant. XD

It was base, dirty, and somewhat subtle.

I laughed

But I don’t think it should have been worth more than 2 points (if that’s indeed what gives a 120 second wait). I think it would of got through on prime time tv.

I went from 120 sec cd→3 day ban + 300 sec cool down so I know that feel bro

@ Danicia

Yes this is very clear and I thank you for your reply.
However I inderstood this point of yours the first time you explained it to me in your emails. Instead my concerns are more deeply rooted. If I am allowed to retort (which I fear I may not be, I will expand on this) then please let me expose my issue.

I appealed against your decision to give me three infraction points for “soliciting spam” on a third party website not only because I felt it is too harsh but also because it is highly subjective. I have explained this cleary in several emails and yet you fail to respond to this. I understand you are busy and I can imagine you have more urgent problems, but this issue is far more reaching than my personal forum privileges. In fact I believe that the attitude of the moderators is close to breaching the freedom of speach principles that are very dear to the western world. Many forum contributors are suffering from this and for these reasons I am dedicating my energy to this problem. Strangely enough you only stopped replying to me ince I made this issue central to our discussion.

I was profoundly shocked by your decision to give me no less than three infraction points for my post. Here is my thought process.

I was not surprised by your decision to delete it: I admit that it was close to being too provoking, although I completely deny any responsability for what took place on the live stream. In fact, like I told you before, you are overestimating my influence. The people who went on the livestream and insistingly asked Anet to answer for the outrageous quantity of game breaking that was introduced in the Fractured patch did so only because they felt cheated and mocked by the developers. More can be learned about this on the relevant living story sub-forum.

My post was infracted three times for a reason that is not present in the code of conduct.

When I made this point clear in my emails you threw three reasons at me and I refuted each one of them.

The number of infraction points given to me would signify that my offence is strong. It means I broke rules and principles that are core to this forum, yet these are not disclosed anywhere in the code of conduct. The contrast is astonishing: how can you be so severe on something you did not even care to explicit in the text ruling all activity on this forum? Subjectivity.

I have implicitely “solicited spam” in the past, on several occasions, yet you never did anything about it, not even a warning. Now that Anet is in a difficult position you have extreme reactions. Subjectivity.

The provocation I made was targeted at a third party website. This is definitely out of the scope of the code of conduct, yet you punished me for it. Subjectivity.

You see I read the code of conduct carefully and in fact you clearly state that you reserve the right to choose what content is appropriate on this forum. This is called subjectivity. So you are perfectly in you right: you can do what ever you want, I accepted the rules of the code of conduct. You can ban my account anytime and you would be withing your legal boundaries.

I have to say you deserve credits for not going that far. From what I have seen the moderation remains sensible, for the most part.

Maybe this is because being too harsh would tarnish the reputation of the game, despite such action being legal?

Well in my case this is it: you have been too extreme. I can understand deleting my post, giving me a warning, but giving me three infraction points for something not mentioned in you code is three times exceding the boundaries of reason.

Now hopefully you understand more clearly why I am asking for permission before talking about this issues. I fear. I fear that you may decide to infract my posts at any time, subjectively, abd without warning. I fear this because I am involved: I am a contributor in the elementalist community, in the dungeon community and I like spending time on the forums because I care about this game.

Edit: written on a mobile device, sorry for the possible inconvenience.

Bro I got infracted once because I posted that support didn’t care about my problem after an gm neglected to read my email and sent me an automatic response with a wiki link. The thread I posted on was asking about a similar problem to the one I had. I gave up on trying to figure out how the mods would react to my posts a long time ago.

^ I think what you’re saying is similar to a rule we’ve had in the server rules of another MMORPG I’ve played. That rule was “Do not act stupid”, and some people were afraid to get banned with this rule as a reason. However, it was never meant to be a ban-reason, but more like “do not think you won’t get punished if you do something that’s clearly not allowed (common sense) but is not listed exactly in this way in the rules”.

Zelyhn did that because we have been ignored in the Fractured forum for 3 weeks. I just want to point out that. He incited spam that was within reason. We have been begging, on our virtual hands and knees for a response and have gotten nothing but a single CC post saying that feedback is being gathered, and now we are a week or so away from the sub forum being archived.

My infractions are basically completely from that forum. Zelyhn as well, I think. When normal posters and staples of the forum community are suddenly getting infracted like crazy maybe that should be a warning sign to moderators, CCs, and developers that something is going really fraking wrong.

This is all I have to say on this matter.

CC Danicia.1394:

As a side note, we are preparing an updated post regarding this and numerous other changes. It should make things more clear for everyone.

By the way Danicia, if you wish to use the haiku in the updated post as an example I have no problems with that and give full permission. Thanks again for looking into this for me.