(edited by Lopez.7369)
COF gives 1.2 gold; FOTM lv. 31 gives 1.3?
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I’d still like to see the source for this scale. Because if that’s the case, then Agony has been scaled UP in higher fractals as opposed to DOWN in lower levels. So where does that discrepancy lie? 30? If I did a 30 before the update, I could survive just fine with 35AR. 40 meant I needed 45AR. Is that increased to 50 or 55 now?
Judging by the general response to this thread, most people disagree.
Basic game design dictates that the most difficult content should be the most rewarding. So making it equal gold to other content and then adding those other goodies you describe just makes sense.
As it stands, it’s not just that fractals give less gold. They give a fraction — one-fourth or one-fifth — of what someone can get in a dungeon, and the reward is proportionally lower in comparison to champion and dolyak farming.
Besides, there’s no reason not to make all the content equally rewarding when it comes to gold. Everyone should be able to work toward a broader goal, such as legendaries or other skins, while doing whatever content is possible. Equalizing the gold reward allows that. That’s the reward equity ArenaNet should be aiming for, even if it will take some tricky balance.
I don’t think asking for gold equality in all content of the game is needed at all.
What’s needed is that everything should give the same kind of satisfaction, reward wise.
Whether you get that from prestige (fractal weapons), progression (ascended ring drops) or gold to me is irrelevant.
The problem fractals had was that the skins were too bound on RNG, and they lost their fame over time.
The rings… almost everyone who put some effort in will get them in a timely manner.
Weapon boxes had a very low drop rate, other places give better chance (to my judgement).
That pretty much leaves only one real benefit you would get from fractals.
Loot. And that’s still lacking.
Unless they add more of the other stuff, loot is needed to compensate.
I’m not sure if they have tinkered with it too much. I’ve not tried it out enough to give a realistic vision on it. So for now I’m holding off on whether or not that ‘’1 gold’’ is a good amount or not.
The biggest problem with the ‘’ 1 gold ’’ I have is that it’s super negligible.
But if fractal skins and ascended items dropped more frequently, they would no longer be prestigious. The content would also be short-lasting because everyone would get their skins and ascended items quickly.
That’s why equity in gold rewards is good. It’s a universal currency that gives content long-term relevance.
The ideal strategy would be to make all content — champion farming, dungeons, fractals, world bosses and everything else — equal in gold but drop unique skins. That way people can do whatever they want and work toward a universal goal, such as a legendary, while getting other skins.
It’s obviously not going to happen overnight, but it’s what ArenaNet should aim for.
But if fractal skins and ascended items dropped more frequently, they would no longer be prestigious. The content would also be short-lasting because everyone would get their skins and ascended items quickly.
That’s why equity in gold rewards is good. It’s a universal currency that gives content long-term relevance.
The ideal strategy would be to make all content — champion farming, dungeons, fractals, world bosses and everything else — equal in gold but drop unique skins. That way people can do whatever they want and work toward a universal goal, such as a legendary, while getting other skins.
It’s obviously not going to happen overnight, but it’s what ArenaNet should aim for.
Fully endorse this post. It isfair and really easy to do given the amount of data anet has.
It should be 10 silver per Fractals scale level.
Fractals give now quite a lot of rares now and are really easy, almost faceroll-ish.
Yesterday I finished a 34 and after I cleared the inventory I noticed I had around 10 rares + 2 [untradable] exotics + a few agony infusions + 1 gold.
Also, one of the fractals was urban and the npcs did all the work. Can’t complain.
Bläck Dähliä
First, I would like to say that please don’t take CoF P1 or SE P1 as a 1G example(just considering the daily reward). These 2 path should worth less than 1G but the lower is 1G, so they are 1G. I would say a AC path for 1.5G or SE P3/CoF P2 for 1G is a better standard.
Still, I think that Fractals give too little gold in general. Even not comparing with dungeons, a lv10 Fractal give 1G and lv30 Fractal give 1.2G? Is this really serious?
While Fractals give +1 Infusion , ascended rings and relic(actually potential rings only), dungeons also give tokens when can be armor, weapons or salvaged into ectos. I would say dungeons give generally better reward on this part also.
I’d still like to see the source for this scale. Because if that’s the case, then Agony has been scaled UP in higher fractals as opposed to DOWN in lower levels. So where does that discrepancy lie? 30? If I did a 30 before the update, I could survive just fine with 35AR. 40 meant I needed 45AR. Is that increased to 50 or 55 now?
It has been scaled down in higher levels and I think it is unchanged in lower levels, but at the same time there are more instances where it’s frequent and unavoidable. Level 30 is the same as before, 40 ar means 1% dmg. Level 40 has been toned down, 55 ar let’s you take 1% insted of 6%. However, level 40 instability applies agony to anyone in combat every ~10s. Basically sustaining party in a fight without enough ar to take 1% dmg requires a lot of coordination even if it’s just 6% dmg every tick, depending on the fractals you get. This also greatly encourages either entering each new “agony tier” with enough ar not to care about it or later, when enough people have reached higher levels, skipping these instabilities.
What most of the people whining here don’t realize is that fotm gives good value for money. It is not in form of gold but in tokens. Let’s do some math shall we?
dungeoning : 20 slot bag=10G for Superior rune of holding+ mats fotm: Do a 36 net 121 tokens you only need 150 relics for a 20 slot bag from fractal merchant that is about 8g(121/150) worth. how about ascended rings which you can’t get from dungeon then?
Next is the backpiece for 1850 relics you can get an ascended stat backpiece. Quiver of Swift Flight which has the in demand zerk stat costs 50 ectos and 250 powerful blood costs 100G more or less to make (with ectos and P blood@33.5s at current TP rates) dividing it gives you a value of 5.4 silver PER fractal relic.
An experienced group can finish a 36 fotm within an hr and 15mins average and net 121 relics 6.5G worth +1.2G=7.7g. That same group can also finish fast dungeons like cof 1 se 1 ac 1 3 and hotw 1 in the same amount of time for 7.3 gold( 6g from daily and 1.3g from default). Also as inflation drives the prices up for ectos and t6 needed to craft backpieces relics equivalent will go up correspondingly. You can however repeat a lower level o higher fractal catergory (10-19 20-29 etc) while you can’t say the same for dungeon and get same rewards.
you take into account the value of relics for fractals, but you forget the dungeon tokens from running dungeons.
Everybody says we should get 10s per level. I strongly disagree with that analysis. Fractals should give a decent amount of gold from the start, at level 1.
If you play level 1, why would you ever receive 10s. Everybody is complaining about getting so few gold, why would you expect that newbie can get 1.26g from a dungeon and 10s from their first fractal. No, simply no.
I can see something where you get 1g for levels 1-10, 2g for 11-20 and so on like the OP suggested. But 10s per fractal is just disgusting for people starting fractals.
If you want to reward the levels as well, I can maybe see something like you get 1g + 10s per fractal level. I’m just saying no to 10s / level only.
Frór (yes, with the accent!)
1st of all CoF takes 6.1/2 minutes to finish.
Always one who wants to split hairs (see where he used the word ‘about’).
A warrior, a guardian, and an elementalist walk into an open field…
The Warrior turns to the guardian and says, “Did you hear something?”
Guardian replies, “No, but how’d the elementalist die?”
The Warrior turns to the guardian and says, “Did you hear something?”
Guardian replies, “No, but how’d the elementalist die?”
That feeling when you get dredge as the third fractal and someone in guild chat asks if anyone wants to run CoF 1 and 2.
That feeling when you are done with the bomb portion of the dredge fractal and that same person asks if anyone wants to run SE 1 and 3.
That feeling when you finish maw and realize that your guild mates just finished 4 dungeons and you got 1.1 gold.
I really love the challenge of fractals, but the risk:reward ratio is preposterous. Oh, get an exotic drop? it’s account bound and can’t be sold.
Here’s what people thought of GW1 when it first came out: http://tinyurl.com/bntcvyc
“A release is 7 days or less away or has just happened within the last 7 days…
These are the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria.”
“A release is 7 days or less away or has just happened within the last 7 days…
These are the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria.”
Who says you need 70AR in a level 50? That makes no sense, you should be able to survive in a level 50 with 55AR. Source on this?
60 AR would still be somewhat doable I think, depending on which fractals you end up with. Would still be a really tough challenge. 65 is still hard. 70 would be needed for the less hardcore people.
55 AR perhaps with the best of teams and really easy rolls.
You get hit for 18% HP for like 5 ticks in a row. So pretty much every 10 – odd seconds one or more party members downs. And during the AR ticks, healing is also reduced so it’s hard to counter.
That is wrong as far as know you get 18% ticks only on 4th boss fractal, rest of fractals has agony like 40-49.
With 55 just use some stong healing skills and you will be fine.
I don’t understand why it’s so hard to scale the rewards possibly.
It seems that Anet has this problem of doing all the revolutionary and different things but seems to miss out the basics.
GW1 revolutionized the way progression in MMOs work, but didn’t have a jumping feature or a z-axis.
GW2 comes out with all these interesting ideas for content and bosses, and achieves a near-perfect balance between a traditional MMO and an action-based MMO, but fails to reward players properly.
Just did a fractal 36 all 4 chests i received only greens and blues. What a joke. Looks like it will take them another year to fix the rewards
(edited by RoRo.8270)
Who says you need 70AR in a level 50? That makes no sense, you should be able to survive in a level 50 with 55AR. Source on this?
60 AR would still be somewhat doable I think, depending on which fractals you end up with. Would still be a really tough challenge. 65 is still hard. 70 would be needed for the less hardcore people.
55 AR perhaps with the best of teams and really easy rolls.
You get hit for 18% HP for like 5 ticks in a row. So pretty much every 10 – odd seconds one or more party members downs. And during the AR ticks, healing is also reduced so it’s hard to counter.
That is wrong as far as know you get 18% ticks only on 4th boss fractal, rest of fractals has agony like 40-49.
With 55 just use some stong healing skills and you will be fine.
I’m referring to the Mistlock Instability. This does indeed tick for 18%.
I would like to see a monetary reward at the end of every fractal you complete within a level, not just at the end, to make it more comparable with dungeons. Lower levels would get a lower reward, obviously. To avoid people farming swamp, they could make the reward accountbound, once per 10 levels, per fractal type, per day. That way you could do a 30 and 40 daily if that’s how you want to play, and not get behind people that run easier dungeons for a few minutes.
Considering I’ve bought (and ascended) four backpieces and gotten (an ever increasing) twenty+ 20 slot bags, I’d say Fractals are actually rather rewarding if you’re not looking at just pure GPH.
Comparatively, I’d have to run 10-15 dungeons runs for a single 20 slot bag, and god knows how many dungeons to buy all the T6 mats to make even just one backpack.
GPH Fractals suck.
Alternatives value though? Not so much.
I suppose when you run out of toons and bag slots, the value drops off steeply but… eh.
Vena/Var – Guardian/Thief
[Eon] – Blackgate
[Eon] – Blackgate
To the people pointing out that some fractal runs can produce a handful of rares and one or two exotics: That’s great. I’m happy for you. But an outlier is not statistically significant. Content is only rewarding when it’s consistently rewarding. There are fractal runs in which I also end up with a bunch of rares and exotics, but those are outweighed by the two or three fractals that produced one rare each.
Besides, four rares and one exotic aren’t impressive for a 1-2 hour run at lv. 31-50. Every dungeon in the game is two or three times more profitable than that.
(edited by Lopez.7369)
Considering I’ve bought (and ascended) four backpieces and gotten (an ever increasing) twenty+ 20 slot bags, I’d say Fractals are actually rather rewarding if you’re not looking at just pure GPH.
Comparatively, I’d have to run 10-15 dungeons runs for a single 20 slot bag, and god knows how many dungeons to buy all the T6 mats to make even just one backpack.
GPH Fractals suck.
Alternatives value though? Not so much.I suppose when you run out of toons and bag slots, the value drops off steeply but… eh.
This might be worth considering in the short term, but, like I said in an earlier post, the idea should be to give fractals long-term relevance. What happens when people get all their 20-slot bags through fractals after eight daily runs?
This might be worth considering in the short term, but, like I said in an earlier post, the idea should be to give fractals long-term relevance. What happens when people get all their 20-slot bags through fractals after eight daily runs?
Well, like I said, it drops off in value after you’ve finished getting all the bags and backslots (though I doubt you can do that in eight dailies, at least not the backpieces). (Though those new recipes sell pretty decently, the sigil at least, so thats a long term revenue source along with the +1 Agony drops which I can’t see ever dropping below a certain threshold due to just how many of them are needed to climb the resist ladder. So really, even on just the +1 Agony drops you net more than the 1.Xg.)
After that, its really all about the skins but even that has diminishing returns in value. I’d sooner prefer they add new skins (fractals only) and higher drops rates of Ascended Weapons/Armor than gold.
Vena/Var – Guardian/Thief
[Eon] – Blackgate
[Eon] – Blackgate
I’ll just re-post what I said earlier:
But if fractal skins and ascended items dropped more frequently, they would no longer be prestigious. The content would also be short-lasting because everyone would get their skins and ascended items quickly.
That’s why equity in gold rewards is good. It’s a universal currency that gives content long-term relevance.
The ideal strategy would be to make all content — champion farming, dungeons, fractals, world bosses and everything else — equal in gold but drop unique skins. That way people can do whatever they want and work toward a universal goal, such as a legendary, while getting other skins.
It’s obviously not going to happen overnight, but it’s what ArenaNet should aim for.
Im guessing Anet always puts in low rewards to protect the economy from them breaking it. This is what happens when your firing content out of a cannon every two weeks. The end result can get messy.
(edited by Dromar.1027)
If you run fractals wanting balanced rewards, you’re gonna have a bad time. They have always been about prestige, challenge, and a measure of masochism. That hasn’t changed just because there is a small gold reward at the end.
I thought people were doing fractals for the challenge. You know, being hardcore players and stuff. Not for the rewards.
That doesn’t justify the lack of rewards, though. Basic game design dictates that the most difficult content should be the most rewarding.
I don’t think ArenaNet have followed your “basic game design” since the beginning.
It’s not my idea in the slightest. But I agree. That’s the problem.
ANET is scared it will damage the economy, OY VEY!
They can always reset our gold so I can’t see why they would be worried. It’s just a number.
Remember that fractals are meant to be just for the challenge and the fun. If you have that, everything else is just numbers. It would be nice if they completely remove the gold and all the random drops and chests from fotm.
All of the game is just for fun. By your argument, why don’t they remove gold from the whole game then ?
Why should we get punished, by no decent rewards in fractals, for playing the content we like ?
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