Working together to achieve goals...
For solution 2, there are already enough afkers. Just another drawback you forgot to mention.
To get the rewards in the map, currently, you don’t need to participate. As long as you’re in the map you will get rewards upon completion.
For Plan 2: Imagine the rage in map chat (and the forums) if the event fails. I don’t think it’s a good idea.
Solution 3: Leave the farmers alone or simply nerf the events; That way we probably won’t show up – Either way we’re still contributing to the events.
Leader of Heroes [Hero] – Seafarers Rest
Honestly, the problem is that completing minion events advances completion by only a tiny amount when compared to AB and molten. If minions advanced completion faster, the events would not fail 90% of the time (since most of the time farmers do, indeed, end up killing all of the AB on the map). Every time I’ve seen it fail, AB were all dead with 8+ minutes to spare on the clock. Sure, the AB wave generally takes 20 or so minutes because people focus on them rather than the minions, but it’s really disheartening to run to a minion event with a group of 3-4 people, finish it, and watch the progress bar tick by what, 2%? Especially compared to molten drilling machines which can be soloed without even taking any significant damage.
Edit: Also it’s worth noting that the AB waves are much, much more difficult than the other waves, and not just because of the zerg upscaling – all the mobs are vets by default, which only happens with AB, and with stunlocks and the high damage output of Strikers, small groups are mowed down in seconds by pirates (so the only real way to kill them is, you guessed it, zerging).
(edited by neon.4863)
For Plan 2: Imagine the rage in map chat (and the forums) if the event fails. I don’t think it’s a good idea.
Then it would certainly do the job of making everyone work for proper completion. If it fails it’s not a long wait until the next event.
For solution 2, there are already enough afkers. Just another drawback you forgot to mention.
To get the rewards in the map, currently, you don’t need to participate. As long as you’re in the map you will get rewards upon completion.
Forgive me, but people afk because rewards are given regardless of win or fail at the end, this can be curtailed by taking away the fail rewards also. Regardless, something needs to be done.
Honestly, the problem is that completing minion events advances completion by only a tiny amount when compared to AB and molten. If minions advanced completion faster, the events would not fail 90% of the time (since most of the time farmers do, indeed, end up killing all of the AB on the map). Every time I’ve seen it fail, AB were all dead with 8+ minutes to spare on the clock. Sure, the AB wave generally takes 20 or so minutes because people focus on them rather than the minions, but it’s really disheartening to run to a minion event with a group of 3-4 people, finish it, and watch the progress bar tick by what, 2%? Especially compared to molten drilling machines which can be soloed without even taking any significant damage.
Edit: Also it’s worth noting that the AB waves are much, much more difficult than the other waves, and not just because of the zerg upscaling – all the mobs are vets by default, which only happens with AB, and with stunlocks and the high damage output of Strikers, small groups are mowed down in seconds by pirates (so the only real way to kill them is, you guessed it, zerging).
A group of 5-6 can take down an AB event without issue. The champion spawn after is a different story, but they waves stay vets until more people show up. Vets are easily enough handled. Now, if there is a zerg in one area and 5-6 people try the area next to it, it may have some scaling issues.
Solution 3: Leave the farmers alone or simply nerf the events; That way we probably won’t show up – Either way we’re still contributing to the events.
The time that is wasted milking events for champions unfortunately outweighs the contribution of completing that event. All that needs to be done for there to be a happy medium is split into 2 farming groups, people still insist on being in one massive group because more champions spawn.
For Plan 2: Imagine the rage in map chat (and the forums) if the event fails. I don’t think it’s a good idea.
Then it would certainly do the job of making everyone work for proper completion. If it fails it’s not a long wait until the next event.
The problem is that there will always be situations where even if everyone works for it, you’ll fail the event (for example not enough people, following clueless commander, overflow). This will cause a huge amount of anger and finger pointing when it happens. And the next the event comes up no one will participate. They’ll go somewhere else. Somewhere where rewards are better.
Without farmers, there probably aren’t enough people to do these invasions — that’s the real problem. The content just isn’t compelling enough for people to play for the fun of it (and thus work hard to win).
I have to agree that without farmers these invasions wouldn’t be populated like they are at the moment. There’s nothing Dynamic about them, you’ve seen one, you’ve seen them all. As much as I’m a GW franchise fan girl, ANet really could do with taking a good look at RIFTs zone invasion mechanics. As soon as I finished my achievements (which happened very quickly! Please give more living story goals!) I haven’t bothered going back to the invasions.
Invasions are not fun for those in the map coincidentally either. With players choosing the avoid it (by simply sidestepping around the stationary invading force) and carrying on with their levelling and map completion. There needs to be incentive for players to liberate camps, farmsteads, towns and keeps rather than zergkitten their way between groups of mobs.
Invasions should contest waypoints, really make things awkward for the player. But most importantly, the enemy needs to move. Going to all that effort to invade and portal into the world, only to stand around for a picnic seems silly. Unless that’s their intention and we are being unwitting party poopers!
I’ve just remembered one of the end of beta events when The Shatterer invaded. Now THAT was an invasion, fail to protect a waypoint and it would be used against you etc. Gosh that was a fun day.
Just a rambling few thoughts.
S/F Asuran Elementalist
Honestly, the problem is that completing minion events advances completion by only a tiny amount when compared to AB and molten. If minions advanced completion faster, the events would not fail 90% of the time (since most of the time farmers do, indeed, end up killing all of the AB on the map). Every time I’ve seen it fail, AB were all dead with 8+ minutes to spare on the clock. Sure, the AB wave generally takes 20 or so minutes because people focus on them rather than the minions, but it’s really disheartening to run to a minion event with a group of 3-4 people, finish it, and watch the progress bar tick by what, 2%? Especially compared to molten drilling machines which can be soloed without even taking any significant damage.
Edit: Also it’s worth noting that the AB waves are much, much more difficult than the other waves, and not just because of the zerg upscaling – all the mobs are vets by default, which only happens with AB, and with stunlocks and the high damage output of Strikers, small groups are mowed down in seconds by pirates (so the only real way to kill them is, you guessed it, zerging).
A group of 5-6 can take down an AB event without issue. The champion spawn after is a different story, but they waves stay vets until more people show up. Vets are easily enough handled. Now, if there is a zerg in one area and 5-6 people try the area next to it, it may have some scaling issues.
An organized group, yes. Since most of this event relies entirely on cooperation with strangers, that’s… considerably harder. Especially since not everyone is level 80 with full exotics. As is, you may end up in a group full of people below the zone’s level, dressed in greens, or it may be just that people don’t all reach the event at the same time, due to the lack of organization – by the time the 3rd or 4th person gets there someone’s already down from all the CC and bleeds/confusion/striker damage (nevermind how likely it is people won’t res the downed). Different from minions, which can be held off (and even completely killed) solo long enough for backup to arrive (with minion champs being killable with a group of 3-4 people).
And yeah, the excess amount of people nearby doing other events/idling really does mess with scaling.
For Plan 2: Imagine the rage in map chat (and the forums) if the event fails. I don’t think it’s a good idea.
Then it would certainly do the job of making everyone work for proper completion. If it fails it’s not a long wait until the next event.
The problem is that there will always be situations where even if everyone works for it, you’ll fail the event (for example not enough people, following clueless commander, overflow). This will cause a huge amount of anger and finger pointing when it happens. And the next the event comes up no one will participate. They’ll go somewhere else. Somewhere where rewards are better.
Without farmers, there probably aren’t enough people to do these invasions — that’s the real problem. The content just isn’t compelling enough for people to play for the fun of it (and thus work hard to win).
Not sure which server you’re on, but on sea of sorrows, if you dont move to the zone in the first 30 seconds, you’re in overflow, and our overflows still have enough people to do or almost do the event. If the farmers weren’t at the events, they most certainly would still get finished. If the map was full of only goal oriented players it wouldn’t be a problem finishing on time.
Edited for clarity:
As it stands now, the farmers hurt more than they help. The time it takes to do one pirate event due to scaling from one massive zerg makes it impossible for them to clear all of the pirate events in the time allotted for the meta. Essentially, even though they are “Helping” by doing anything at all, they are still sandbagging the event by making the aetherblade events take so long. (Since event completions are the only things that lower the aetherblade bar.)
Secondly, There’s nothing wrong with giving your best shot and failing something, people were complaining it was too easy to begin with. Raising the stakes by adding the champion counter mechanic would focus everyone on the goal, and alleviate some of the problems here. If it fails, people still get the normal loot, they just miss out on the champion boxes.
(edited by Master Stumpy.4263)
Events fail because the objectives are “not told in your face”. They should have used a similar mechanic like in Spirit Sprint: announce what to do next not just a text in the top corner where it may be accidentally hidden
My first thought: despawn leftover enemies when an event completes, and despawn all leftover Aetherblades/Molten Alliance when their zone-wide “bar” depletes. That would at least curb some of the time-wasting farming — and it’s not like there aren’t many precedents for enemies vanishing after an event completes. In that light, I was actually surprised that leftovers DON’T disappear.
Part of me wants to second the notion that failure should be less rewarding, but that would really only punish the people who are actually trying to spawn and defeat Scarlet. They forgo farming, so they already get less overall.
@Ronah: I disagree. The objectives are very clear, people simply ignore them deliberately. Over the past two days I’ve even noticed a “backlash” against non-farmers trying to find each other and organize in map chat.
(edited by Chadramar.8156)
I would love it if the enemies would despawn after the goal is completed. Then I would be out of combat, could pick up loot, and could rez people and then be on to the next event quickly.
It’s a kitten conspiracy. Kittens gonna be kittens. All is vain!