Guild Wars 2

37-year-old curmudgeon here; I don’t think it’s your age, just your expectations regarding story, and it’s clear from the posts in this thread that there are plenty of snot-nosed, punk kids who are as skeptical of the story as you are. So, feel some solidarity with the young’uns, and reminisce about better instances of storytelling you’ve encountered. For my part, I expected a predictable, cliched plot, to a certain extent, so I can focus all my disappointment on other things, like no tattoo armor . . .

Raging Bull.5048:

This question naturally arises – seeing how I find the story in GW2 beyond naive and predictable. It’s one huge cliche. At the same time, I see people intrigued by it.

So I wonder – am I too old for video game stories? Maybe they are tailored for the younger folks. I feel like I’ve heard it all before.

Is it time for me to start reading Dostoyevsky and Isaac Asimov in order to find “a challenge” for my intellect/level of maturity?

You can always do both. Read Asimov and then play GW2. I finished up Foundation & Empire a couple of weeks ago when I didn’t feel like doing my personal story.

I consider myself well-read but auctually like the writing and storylines in GW2 . There’s a bit of cheesiness and predictability but I find the personal story to be far more intriguing than most of the MMOs I’ve played. And if you want to complain about really bad dialogue, go play Diablo 3 as a comparison. GW 2 seems like Tolstoy by comparison.

I will say that SWTOR had an excellent story with interesting twists and turns. Unfortunately, the gameplay was horrible and the PVP was passable but majorly imbalanced. All in all, I would rather have a great game with an ok story rather than the opposite, especially when it comes to MMOs.

Zappa.9064:

I consider myself well-read but auctually like the writing and storylines in GW2 . There’s a bit of cheesiness and predictability but I find the personal story to be far more intriguing than most of the MMOs I’ve played. And if you want to complain about really bad dialogue, go play Diablo 3 as a comparison. GW 2 seems like Tolstoy by comparison.

I will say that SWTOR had an excellent story with interesting twists and turns. Unfortunately, the gameplay was horrible and the PVP was passable but majorly imbalanced. All in all, I would rather have a great game with an ok story rather than the opposite, especially when it comes to MMOs.

Eh, I’d sign up for that deal anytime. Thing is, I find game-play and PvP in GW2 pretty awful as well…

You’re never to old to play MMORPG’s

Sometimes the story is predictable and cliched, somethimes that’s part of the charm and sometimes it’s annoying, but then the same applies to GW1 cough Rurik cough.

Sorry, but whatever MMO you play, you can’t escape that which winds you up. My advice is, go with the flow because the story lines are only a part of this game and the storys fly by as you get distracted by vistas, poi, etc

I too find the story too predictable and simple comparing to the first Guild Wars. The story of the first Guild Wars seems soooooo better. You go into other world fight gods giants and all that(you really should read the story of the first) but now all you do is fight a few dragons with zero surprise. Maybe I expect too much from a PvP game?

i’m really glad others are of the opinion that this “story” is laughable. i’m the first to admit i’m a lit snob (whoever said diablo three made guild wars sound like tolstoy, if that was a joke, it wasn’t funny :/). but i’m also a game snob, and find that the gameplay of guild wars is deep and complicated in interesting ways. i’m sure there are those who will disagree. i like the tactical decisions, i like that they feel like they matter.
and this is exactly why the story is utterly miserable. none of your choices matter. you make lots of them, but ultimately, the only real choice is “what order armor do i want the option of passing up later on?” (not entirely fair, they do offer some nice skins). but in all honesty, the only interesting thing about the story is how much of it there is, and the only way to even appreciate this is to play an unbelievable number of characters through repetitious early stages. the writing itself is sophomoric at best and fan fiction calibre at worst. the story itself is worse than formulaic, it is boring.

but what infuriates me above all is the way it so blatantly betrays its own supposed themes and morals. for example, in a story centered primarily around racial tensions, a large chunk of lore and storyplay involved essentially “civilizing” “tribal” races (who you are just as often exterminating mindlessly). skritt, quaggan, and the like (with the possible tengu/kodan exception) are treated as entirely inferior beings. as a socialist, i was quite frankly disturbed to see my main racial foe as a norn was a miners’ collective of dredge headquartered in “moleningrad.”

it’s obvious that the story is “bad,” as even those trying to defend it seem to be mainly comparing it to even crappier game plots (or for some bizarre reason, quality literature). let’s explore exactly why this plot is pissing off so many people (voice acting aside).

kuroi.5467:

i’m really glad others are of the opinion that this “story” is laughable. i’m the first to admit i’m a lit snob (whoever said diablo three made guild wars sound like tolstoy, if that was a joke, it wasn’t funny :/). but i’m also a game snob, and find that the gameplay of guild wars is deep and complicated in interesting ways. i’m sure there are those who will disagree. i like the tactical decisions, i like that they feel like they matter.
and this is exactly why the story is utterly miserable. none of your choices matter. you make lots of them, but ultimately, the only real choice is “what order armor do i want the option of passing up later on?” (not entirely fair, they do offer some nice skins). but in all honesty, the only interesting thing about the story is how much of it there is, and the only way to even appreciate this is to play an unbelievable number of characters through repetitious early stages. the writing itself is sophomoric at best and fan fiction calibre at worst. the story itself is worse than formulaic, it is boring.

but what infuriates me above all is the way it so blatantly betrays its own supposed themes and morals. for example, in a story centered primarily around racial tensions, a large chunk of lore and storyplay involved essentially “civilizing” “tribal” races (who you are just as often exterminating mindlessly). skritt, quaggan, and the like (with the possible tengu/kodan exception) are treated as entirely inferior beings. as a socialist, i was quite frankly disturbed to see my main racial foe as a norn was a miners’ collective of dredge headquartered in “moleningrad.”

it’s obvious that the story is “bad,” as even those trying to defend it seem to be mainly comparing it to even crappier game plots (or for some bizarre reason, quality literature). let’s explore exactly why this plot is pissing off so many people (voice acting aside).

It’s pissing me off because it’s made for either really really naive people or children under the age of 10 – and I mean this literally, because I believe they are the only ones that can be “awed” by the plot. I have a little sister who is 12 and trust me, she and her friends believe that the story “blows”. Let’s face it, even the kids have the chance to watch mature movies/content on the TV and Internet nowadays, thus their criteria grows further up. What can be said about the actual matures then??

It’s not just the story – it’s most of the game/encounter mechanics as well, it’s just that I didn’t mention them here because it’s the Personal Story forum section. But yes, it seems that the ANet decided to go “naive”, probably due to popularity reasons. Or at least they believed that the grown ups wouldn’t mind their lack of imagination, creation, depth or complexity, and that they’ll attract the youngsters as well.

Win-win, right? Wrong.

Look, I’m not defending the story as being the best in the gaming genre. I guess I just don’t find it so terrible as to detract from my fun. I also think it’s incredibly difficult to pull off a deep, intricate story in a multiplayer game. The recent games that IMHO have some of the best storylines in gaming – Bioshock, Half Life 2, Dragon Age, Skyrim, Mass Effect (ending aside) – are all single player games. For example, in Skyrim you can say “sod this saving the world stuff, I’m going to go be a crime lord with the Thieves Guild.” Do that in an MMO and your character has no real justification for progressing in the world with other players. And since we’re on the subject of other players, let’s take a quick look at SWTOR, Bioware’s effort to add highly detailed stories in an MMO. I’m playing a “James Bond” style imperial agent – he’s a ruthless killer but doesn’t hurt innocents or cause unecessary mayhem. I’m in an instance with a 13-year-old playing a psycopathic sith for the lulz. When Mr Sith wins the rolloff to decide what happens in the story, he gets to burn down the orphanage with all the kiddies inside. How is that an amazing story experience?

Maybe we need to agree to disagree, but I just don’t see a way yet for MMOs to encourage player interaction and create the same kind of stoires that single player games can. At least GW 2 gives you a lot of choice in the way your personal story unfolds. My gutter rat seeking to avenge her dead sister human story felt very different than my blood legion outcast guardian looking to restore his family honor. I appreciate that.

PS – the whole Tolstoy comment was meant to be a joke. I recognize that a degree in literature has little practicality in the real world beside letting you act superior, but seriously this is a gaming forum. Please lighten up.

The story is just very naive and predictable. Guild Wars 1 did a much better job there imo, but it’s just one of many aspects that are actually worse in GW2 than GW1…

Zappa.9064:

Maybe we need to agree to disagree, but I just don’t see a way yet for MMOs to encourage player interaction and create the same kind of stoires that single player games can.

Why not? The personal story is completely segregated from the rest of the game experience. Even though you can bring a friend to help you in the combat part, it is a single player oriented story in which anyone helping you gets no say in any conversations or decisions. It can be as complex, deep, interesting, or grey as they want it to be since it is meant for only one person at a time.

And just because you’re a good guy doesn’t mean you have to be corny and hokey about it like my sylvari, norn, and human characters are.

I hear you all and I agree wholeheartedly that some parts of the personal storyline are childish and predictable. There were more than a few instances when I felt like I needed to fill in the gaps the story was creating in order to continue to suspend my disbelief. An example of what I’m talking about would be the Shell Shock mission where you escort an artillery team to a bridge to blow up some risen (and find out they weren’t risen). This ‘chapter’ is completely unnecessary. I understand the motive—to put the PC in a position where his loyalty and reliability are brought under question—but it doesn’t work.

That said, the majority of the story is written well enough, but its very poorly implemented. I felt very out-of-touch with it for most of the campaign. Trahearne, for example, seems like a likeable character, but I don’t like him as a war leader. His speeches aren’t inspiring, his decisions seem either impulsive (closing the gates on and sacrificing troops without giving them the chance to retreat when there was plenty of time to do so—poorly implemented) or perfect (he’s naïve one moment, experienced the next), and he drops all the time in combat. He would serve better as a counselor than a leader and he seems to prefer the idea. He’s made war leader based on a vision, not any real capacity to lead.

Up to about 20th level, the story was great. I enjoyed the heck out of the unknown parents human storyline. After that things go downhill. Losing Claw Island seemed arbitrary. I never felt like we were losing. Heck, I never felt like there was a battle. NPC allies don’t act like real characters, but like programs, only engaging enemy NPCs when they are within a certain radius. They don’t always assist either. The catapult blows up inexplicably after you sink the ship, the dragon is too easy to drive off, there are too few participants…the list goes on.

I’ve gotten to the point where I avoid the personal storyline. It’s unbelievable. Dialogue needs to be improved. There needs to be more of it to make known the various perspectives about what’s going on to the player. (The Charr War Commander on Claw Island comes to mind—he refuses to prepare for a risen assault no matter what anyone says. Why?) The events need to be made to coincide with and support the intensity of the moment. If Claw Island is being assaulted, it better kitten well look like it’s being assaulted and I better feel like I’m in the midst of a desperate battle to save it. The ‘chapters’ need to all relate to the overarching storyline in some manner.

Perhaps the most significant issue is the lack of choice for the PC. Despite the numerous pseudo choices the PC is given, the personal storyline is a railroad. I understand that the personal storyline must be a railroad. To implement true choice would require a much greater investment of resources by ANet. Each choice leads to a separate story path for which graphics, VO, and all the rest would need to be created. Nevertheless, it seems like there was no attempt to conceal the railroad as it stands. This should be improved.

On the positive side, there are a lot of good things about the game that I enjoy immensely and I’ll be sticking with ANet and GW2 and be there when those improvements are made.

The Personal Story is NOT the place to find the good writing in Tyria. The strongest stories in Guild Wars 2 are the little hidden gems… (for those curious, the other dialogue tree just mentions her wondering to herself if she can make it as a refugee in Kryta, if I recall correctly.)

Zappa.9064:

Look, I’m not defending the story as being the best in the gaming genre. I guess I just don’t find it so terrible as to detract from my fun. I also think it’s incredibly difficult to pull off a deep, intricate story in a multiplayer game. The recent games that IMHO have some of the best storylines in gaming – Bioshock, Half Life 2, Dragon Age, Skyrim, Mass Effect (ending aside) – are all single player games. For example, in Skyrim you can say “sod this saving the world stuff, I’m going to go be a crime lord with the Thieves Guild.” Do that in an MMO and your character has no real justification for progressing in the world with other players. And since we’re on the subject of other players, let’s take a quick look at SWTOR, Bioware’s effort to add highly detailed stories in an MMO. I’m playing a “James Bond” style imperial agent – he’s a ruthless killer but doesn’t hurt innocents or cause unecessary mayhem. I’m in an instance with a 13-year-old playing a psycopathic sith for the lulz. When Mr Sith wins the rolloff to decide what happens in the story, he gets to burn down the orphanage with all the kiddies inside. How is that an amazing story experience?

Maybe we need to agree to disagree, but I just don’t see a way yet for MMOs to encourage player interaction and create the same kind of stoires that single player games can. At least GW 2 gives you a lot of choice in the way your personal story unfolds. My gutter rat seeking to avenge her dead sister human story felt very different than my blood legion outcast guardian looking to restore his family honor. I appreciate that.

PS – the whole Tolstoy comment was meant to be a joke. I recognize that a degree in literature has little practicality in the real world beside letting you act superior, but seriously this is a gaming forum. Please lighten up.

jokes like that confuse your real points, and i don’t have a lit degree, i can just read.

secondly, the personal story of gw2 is a single player experience. there is ZERO incentive (lv 80 mission aside) to ever venture into someone else’s personal story. even if you’ve connived enough to be tasked with the same mission at the same time (not easy) you’d have to play them separately, or one at a time.

i can almost see how the game was supposed to work. the story line slowly homogenizes over time, so you go from dealing with fairly local problems to a whole scale war. but the problem is everything about the world is taken as a given, as something that is so obvious you should know it already (and usually, it’s so obvious you know it already). instead of characteristic idiosyncratic each character has his Super Obvious Personality Disorder that governs almost every action. not to mention that this is the second time i’ve slowly progressed from local drama to uniting an entire world against dragons, this year alone.

skyrim’s story was vague, banal, and as generically fantastic as you could get, but its utter devotion to the minute details of lore carried the day, as well as the fact that you completely controlled your story progression. but more importantly, there were consequences to your choices. in gw, regardless of the 1000 different starting paths i choose, the entire rest of my game is going to be identical.

no, i don’t think your personal story choices should affect your statistics or gameplay in anyway. but if i can’t even prove, at level 80, that i was of noble born, why does it even matter?

personally i’d like to see a system that progressively increases the incentive for group-play. that way, we can have highly individual storylines early on, but as they seem to do anyway, we’re all coming from different places to fight in the final battle. so yes, some of your later story choices would be group based, like path choices in a dungeon, but i really don’t see why that’s so terrible in an mmo. swotor, if i recall, had morality dependent statistics. since choices in gw story as of now affect nothing but what order armor you choose, i don’t think decision by committee should really be that objectionable. it allows there to be a coherent world story and for us to participate in it on our own terms.

kuroi.5467:

jokes like that confuse your real points, and i don’t have a lit degree, i can just read.

secondly, the personal story of gw2 is a single player experience. there is ZERO incentive (lv 80 mission aside) to ever venture into someone else’s personal story. even if you’ve connived enough to be tasked with the same mission at the same time (not easy) you’d have to play them separately, or one at a time.

i can almost see how the game was supposed to work. the story line slowly homogenizes over time, so you go from dealing with fairly local problems to a whole scale war. but the problem is everything about the world is taken as a given, as something that is so obvious you should know it already (and usually, it’s so obvious you know it already). instead of characteristic idiosyncratic each character has his Super Obvious Personality Disorder that governs almost every action. not to mention that this is the second time i’ve slowly progressed from local drama to uniting an entire world against dragons, this year alone.

skyrim’s story was vague, banal, and as generically fantastic as you could get, but its utter devotion to the minute details of lore carried the day, as well as the fact that you completely controlled your story progression. but more importantly, there were consequences to your choices. in gw, regardless of the 1000 different starting paths i choose, the entire rest of my game is going to be identical.

I apologize for going on the defensive, but your first post came off IMHO somewhat argumentative and arrogant towards me. But in your second post I realize that your intent wasn’t to be offensive so /internet hugs.

BTW I wasn’t sure where you were going with the whole socialist argument. We’re in the middle of a presidential election here in the States – the last thing I want in most of my games are deep discussions about politics or which economic style is the best. I just want a good fun adventure I can share with my friends, even if it is a bit cliche and cheesy. The way I look at it, GW 2 is the equivalent of a Michael Bay or James Cameron film. It’s far more about the cinematics, special effects and action than it is about deep engaging story.

I’d also like to challenge all the story haters here to name another MMO with a terrific story. There’s only a handful – I’d argue LOTRO, SWTOR, maybe Secret World though I’ve never played that one. AOC had a great story just for the first 20 levels, Rift and Warhammer are both pretty bland generic fantasy, City of Heroes/DC Universe Online are bland superhero games with plots as deep as the superhero shows my kid likes, etc. Those thinking GW 1 had a much better story are looking at the past with rose colored glasses. I replayed Prophecies and Eye of the North in just the past few months, and both had absolutely horrible dialogue and pacing. Prophecies may have had more twists and turns than GW 2, but the surprises were just as obvious (oh wait, you mean our friend the vizier is secretly trying to get us killed?!? I’m shocked! Shocked!) Arenanet really stepped up their writing compared to their first games.

Agree with many of the assessments here.

I wasn’t expecting literary fiction, but the standard of character development in particular is so low, it’s underground.

I can’t name any MMORPGs that have better storylines, as this is the first I’ve played, but I can name an RPG: ‘Planescape: Torment’. It had memorable characters whose personalities came through in their dialogue long before they were propped up with any backstory. It let you choose roughly what sort of person you were through simple dialogue options, some of which made the difference between fighting your way out and talking your way out. And very importantly, it managed to stay thematically coherent throughout.

Even people who say they don’t mind the story as is would notice the difference if PS:T calibre of writing were brought to GW2. Just imagine entering into a dangerous area not because there’s a green arrow on your screen but because you actually care about rescuing someone. Imagine hesitating over a dialogue option because you’re actually concerned about staying on someone’s good side. Imagine feeling like you made a difference.

Arena Net seem to have underestimated the amount of players who have an interest in a solid story. A shame, really. The lore is pretty rich but large portions are ignored or brushed aside.

And bad characters, too. I’ve read the poorly written Edge of Destiny book, and between that and the game I’ve come to hate Logan and Eir, despite initially liking and rooting for them.

If the heroes that you’re supposed to look up to are awful there’s something wrong. Somebody made a big mistake along the way.

It has nothing to do with age. The story in this game is terrible. The story in most MMO’s is lackluster, but GW2’s story line is much much worse.

There are games that have deep and interesting storylines. Even some surprising games that you wouldn’t think would have deep storylines do, like Spec Ops: The Line. Games like Mass Effect, Braid, LA Noire, Half Life, all have pretty decent storylines.

Knights of the Old Republic is a stellar example — One of only a few games that had a plot twist so unexpected I didn’t see it coming until it happened.

OP, yes. It is time to shut down your PC, you probably shouldnt have owned one anyway, relax in that rocking chair, be sure to take your meds, and sink into mindless dribble.
Or, keep that PC on, which despite the story line you seem to not enjoy, explore the various aspects of your character, builds, crafting, game mechanics, be sure to still take your meds, and exercise your mind, with an occasion physical exercise as well.

I’ve been gaming for 20 years and I don’t find the story any predictable or “for kids” until you meet Trahearne, then for the most part yes, it’s a clichè.

Btw there is no such things as too old for gaming.
I have a 70 years old friend who plays GW2 and was the leader of one of the strongest PvP clans in L2.

The first time I was compleating the story on my Sylvari I was enjoying it, because I had no idea what was ahead, and when it got to meeting Trahearne at claw iland i found it really strange how my partner from the Vigal was talking to me, how he thought I did not know Trahearne… after finding out the Arah Dungeon is the final part of the story after going through Trahearnes boring long quest, my thoughts of the personal story just went down hill… through out his quest i was only waiting for the greatest part where i could be a hero! That, did not happen. I did not feel I had any choice to be a hero, and through the bad and the weird diolog i would of at least wanted that.

I’m mostly disapointed in how the Player Character is treated in the story, and honestly i thought Anet would write what they wanted. Not giving into something that people want, only going for how they want to show their epic story, and make the Player feel like they earned the roll of a Hero.

I feel silly for putting so much thought into how ANet would work on the story.

I ought to say, I enjoyed the story, however I agree with that it’s kind of predictable.
The main problem for me, is that it seems to become ‘unpersonal’ once you join the pact, and I honestly dread the moment that my second character will hit that level :/ The quests you get joining the orders are great fun imo.

The only other problem I have is, what happened to the people you met earlier? The mysterious Sylvari I met, who left after a couple of quest?
The tavern-owner and his daughter? (The friends you get by picking commoner/noble/streetrat for human story.)
Why doesn’t my character ever bother to ask about them? Why don’t I hear anything about them? Whenever I go to my personal instance I’m just told that it would be nice if I’d return sometime for a drink. Ermh, hello? I’m here now!

I think overal the story could use a bit more depth, as well as letting characters that you met previously come back. It seems like after you join the pact your entire history has been erased :|

(btw, I’m 19, almost 20. And you’re never too old for gaming. Too mature maybe, but those 2 are unrelated. )

when you have read as many books as us oldies have storylines everyone seem to have been done before is all. Younger kids havent seen them all hence why they still feel fresh to them. Well thats my theory anyways