Guild Wars 2

Evan Lesh.3295:

Got an update for you guys! Thanks to everyone for dissecting the current state of targeting!

The current click timing threshold is 250ms. We are playing with a lower number internally to see if it causes problems like people perceiving clicks as not registering.

I figured it was somewhere between .2 and .3 seconds*. I chose to say .3 seconds because it was the most reliable number when I was checking. *If I am even talking about the same thing you are.

I just want to ask: why is this timing threshold even there after you move the cursor into camera-mode? Without it, it seems like the flicking issue would be gone. The strafing issues would still be there, but it would at be a vast improvement. I’m just not seeing what else it’s used for. It doesn’t seem to be there to prevent camera-mode because that’s what 4 pixel threshold does.

Evan Lesh.3295:

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

I’m not going to write a huge paragraph or pile on a load more demands on how I’d like the threshold stuff. Just…

Thank you. Thank you for adding this as an option.

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

/end thread

lol

Evan Lesh.3295:

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

Finally.

And thank you.

Geotherma.2395:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

/end thread

lol

• I don’t even know why I’m quoting you, because I agree. Just ranting:

It may end this thread because that’s what the point of this thread was: request a toggle. Though, it won’t end the discussions of the problems.

It’s the perfect solution to people who don’t want to play with right-mouse targeting.
Though, it’s far from a solution for those who do.

I’m not sure that there even is a perfect solution for those people, as Evan eluded to in his most recent post. ANet can tweak and change code all they want, but I can’t see anything but problems existing and arising with right-mouse targeting.

The only solution that makes absolute sense for everything to function as expected is to remove right-mouse targeting altogether. Though, since a lot of players are used to the right-mouse targeting, this really isn’t an option at this point. So, these kinds of threads will still exist after a toggle is given and even after thresholds are changed.

I thank you, Evan, and my thief thanks you too.

After all of this, I didn’t even think of a quite simple solution that kind of works for everyone:
1. Add toggle to turn off right-mouse targeting.
2. Fix as much as possible with the current system even if it still causes problems.
3. In key-binds, allow the player to re-map the function of right-mouse targeting to another input when toggled off.

Players would be able toggle off right-mouse targeting and then bind the function (selecting and auto-attacking) to another key. I would choose an unused mouse button that my thumb was readily on or possibly the middle-mouse button. People could still choose not to toggle and play how they have been, but they would be stuck with a broken system that they would just have to deal with.

So, next thread title: “Option to bind right-mouse targeting to another input when toggled off.”

Finally! (assuming the toggle gets in & works ;p)

Now, how about a toggle for all the crap top right of the screen?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Got an update for you guys! Thanks to everyone for dissecting the current state of targeting!

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

There are still questions left to be answered for how targeting in Guild Wars 2 should work, and I’m sure these will be answered as we continue to iterate.

Thank you very much. Best news, game will be a much better for us who really needed this. Hope that everything will be like Guild Wars 1 was with right click. Game will be better. Thank you. Also i guess, that this will be an option, thakittens okay for those who use right click for targeting.

+ 1 000 000

Evan Lesh.3295:

Got an update for you guys! Thanks to everyone for dissecting the current state of targeting!

There is certainly a bug with prolonged mouse-presses and not moving the cursor. I am fixing this. However, this is certainly an extreme case and fixing this will not solve all issues players are experiencing.

The current click timing threshold is 250ms. We are playing with a lower number internally to see if it causes problems like people perceiving clicks as not registering.

There is also window of error when clicking that could cause your mouse-release to select something different from what was hovered during the mouse-press. While this should also very rarely happen with the timing and distance thresholds, it is still a potential problem that will be fixed.

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

There are still questions left to be answered for how targeting in Guild Wars 2 should work, and I’m sure these will be answered as we continue to iterate.

THANK YOU!

Thank You Evan! It took a while to realize how differently people play this game and how it effects their actions. As a hold over from previous games (like GW1) I hold my mouse buttons down almost continuously and strafe using the right left toggle of the wheel and I honestly can’t see playing any other way. This should correct the problem.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Got an update for you guys! Thanks to everyone for dissecting the current state of targeting!

There is certainly a bug with prolonged mouse-presses and not moving the cursor. I am fixing this. However, this is certainly an extreme case and fixing this will not solve all issues players are experiencing.

The current click timing threshold is 250ms. We are playing with a lower number internally to see if it causes problems like people perceiving clicks as not registering.

There is also window of error when clicking that could cause your mouse-release to select something different from what was hovered during the mouse-press. While this should also very rarely happen with the timing and distance thresholds, it is still a potential problem that will be fixed.

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

There are still questions left to be answered for how targeting in Guild Wars 2 should work, and I’m sure these will be answered as we continue to iterate.

Dear god after 9 months of begging and pleading for a right click toggle…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usfiAsWR4qU

I am actually doing a jig in my office.

Stormcrow.7513:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Dear god after 9 months of begging and pleading…

You now know what it is like to live with a pregnant woman, see GW2 teaches people things

lol
too true that

Evan Lesh.3295:

Got an update for you guys! Thanks to everyone for dissecting the current state of targeting!

There is certainly a bug with prolonged mouse-presses and not moving the cursor. I am fixing this. However, this is certainly an extreme case and fixing this will not solve all issues players are experiencing.

The current click timing threshold is 250ms. We are playing with a lower number internally to see if it causes problems like people perceiving clicks as not registering.

There is also window of error when clicking that could cause your mouse-release to select something different from what was hovered during the mouse-press. While this should also very rarely happen with the timing and distance thresholds, it is still a potential problem that will be fixed.

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

There are still questions left to be answered for how targeting in Guild Wars 2 should work, and I’m sure these will be answered as we continue to iterate.

Very nice. I know people sound very frustrated about issues like this but the work you guys put into fixing it is much appreciated. Despite the vocal bloviations of some people I assure you many of us recognize that not everything can be fixed at once, but even baby steps in the right direction (and I’d say this is more than baby steps on this issue) are steps in the right direction.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Got an update for you guys! Thanks to everyone for dissecting the current state of targeting!

There is certainly a bug with prolonged mouse-presses and not moving the cursor. I am fixing this. However, this is certainly an extreme case and fixing this will not solve all issues players are experiencing.

The current click timing threshold is 250ms. We are playing with a lower number internally to see if it causes problems like people perceiving clicks as not registering.

There is also window of error when clicking that could cause your mouse-release to select something different from what was hovered during the mouse-press. While this should also very rarely happen with the timing and distance thresholds, it is still a potential problem that will be fixed.

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

There are still questions left to be answered for how targeting in Guild Wars 2 should work, and I’m sure these will be answered as we continue to iterate.

Thank you!

Thank you SO much.

I… I don’t know what to say. “Thank you” doesn’t seem to be working, because I’m still feeling more gratitude than I can express.

I honestly just teared up for a second… and counting. Seriously.

Thanks, Evan!

Evan Lesh.3295:

snip

…we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

Thank you! You just helped hundred of thousands of gamers coming from other genres where Right-click is exclusive to Camera controls and Left-click is exclusive to targetting and other functions has burned to our brains. Gamers who’ve only played MMOs will never understand this fix.

And for those who don’t understand why we are like this, just think switching spoon/knife and fork on your left and right hands. That’s how very annoying it is.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Got an update for you guys!
snip
On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

Whooohoo. finally some feedback. Evan, you are this day’s hero. Gonna go and buy some gems now, and no, I’m not kidding. ^.^
Any chance you’ll look into sticky targeting, no de-targeting on non-target clicks, while you’re at it? I’d buy another gem package, seriously.

@Evan, this is kind of off-topic, but can you do something about the fact that Call Target (Ctrl-space) doesn’t let us call a target when we’re playing solo? It only works if we are in a party.

If I could call targets when playing solo I wouldn’t mind accidentally targeting something accidentally so much (if at all, really), because I could always just press Take Target (T) to bring my old target back.

@Thirdseason, I understand what you’re saying, believe me, I do, but to get the same effect as your current fast flick with a slower rotation speed, you’d have to hold the mouse button a lot longer, meaning that it wouldn’t click a target anymore.
You would no longer do a fast click, because with a lower rotation speed, the camera would hardly turn at all if you did that.
If you still accidentally target something, turn the rotation speed even lower.
.

I understand that players could still accidentally target, but that player would quickly learn “Oh, I see! Releasing the button quickly makes the game target something!”, and “I can see that pressing the button longer makes the camera turn”, because the behavior is easy to recognize and easy to predict, which the current behavior isn’t. With that in mind, the player can notice and adjust his behavior to prevent the problem.

But, the current behavior took 9+ months and we still had no clue exactly what was going on. A lot of players who have been playing since beta noticed that they lost their targets very often, but even in June 2013 they still couldn’t tell what made it happen, so they couldn’t adjust their behavior to prevent it!
.

I know it’s not a perfect solution, but it’s the lesser of two evils, and it’s much easier to rationalize in the player’s mind than the current behavior we have.

This change would make it easier for the player to understand, and in turn, the player would realize he simply has to hold the button longer when he wants to turn the camera.

I understand how difficult the problem is, after I realized that the game probably only has camera mode code, so the Devs had kind of had to “hack” the camera code to make it possible to click targets. It’s a clunky hack, but sadly I now understand why it’s so difficult to get this thing done right.
.

Anyway, before we get more into this discussion, I want to 1) see the new right click targeting on the next patch, and 2) see if Evan can fix the bug he mentioned and see what changes it might bring.

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

I’m noticing a lot of players reacting too happily, as if by the next patch they’ll be able to have the right click only do camera control, never targeting.
Please people, don’t get too hyped up.

Looks to me as if the toggle will only let you choose between automatically attacking the new target, or only selecting that target without attacking it. You can choose to have the right click targeting behave the same as left click, or choose to have it attack immediately after you select a target. That’s all.
That means that we will probably still accidentally target something, but at least your character will keep auto attacking the old target. Using a targeted skill other than auto attack will still switch targets.
.

@Evan, definitely consider letting us call targets when playing alone, this way we can call a target every time we choose to attack a monster, and then if we accidentally change targets, we can just press T to take our old target back.

There is certainly a bug with prolonged mouse-presses and not moving the cursor. I am fixing this. However, this is certainly an extreme case and fixing this will not solve all issues players are experiencing.
The current click timing threshold is 250ms. We are playing with a lower number internally to see if it causes problems like people perceiving clicks as not registering.

I know it’s none of my business, but I’m curious why you don’t place the timing threshold on “button press” instead of “after player moves 4 pixels”. Even if you kept the pixel threshold.
It doesn’t seem to me like the answer would be reducing the threshold, either pixel or time.

And I assume that by “There is certainly a bug with prolonged mouse-presses and not moving the cursor”, you mean “not moving the cursor more than 4 pixels”. Because it will target if you don’t move more than 4 pixels.

And by “the current click timing threshold is 250ms” you mean "the current timing after the player moves past the 4 pixel threshold ", because it certainly isn’t after the player presses down the mouse.

I’ll leave you alone so you can work
:-P

I sure hope Lorazcyk is wrong about that not preventing re-targeting on camera move … because I want to be a happy camper and I am cheering so much right now. It’s been especially difficult on my Thief since his skills flip him around but the camera doesn’t turn with him (a good thing, I’d get queasy and disoriented) so then I do a manual spin in a controlled fashion to re-orient … and lose my target.

I am happy! I expect to be happy! Please be wrong, Lorazcyk … please?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Got an update for you guys! Thanks to everyone for dissecting the current state of targeting!

There is certainly a bug with prolonged mouse-presses and not moving the cursor. I am fixing this. However, this is certainly an extreme case and fixing this will not solve all issues players are experiencing.

The current click timing threshold is 250ms. We are playing with a lower number internally to see if it causes problems like people perceiving clicks as not registering.

There is also window of error when clicking that could cause your mouse-release to select something different from what was hovered during the mouse-press. While this should also very rarely happen with the timing and distance thresholds, it is still a potential problem that will be fixed.

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

There are still questions left to be answered for how targeting in Guild Wars 2 should work, and I’m sure these will be answered as we continue to iterate.

TY for the update, looking forward to disabling right click.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Got an update for you guys! Thanks to everyone for dissecting the current state of targeting!

There is certainly a bug with prolonged mouse-presses and not moving the cursor. I am fixing this. However, this is certainly an extreme case and fixing this will not solve all issues players are experiencing.

The current click timing threshold is 250ms. We are playing with a lower number internally to see if it causes problems like people perceiving clicks as not registering.

There is also window of error when clicking that could cause your mouse-release to select something different from what was hovered during the mouse-press. While this should also very rarely happen with the timing and distance thresholds, it is still a potential problem that will be fixed.

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

There are still questions left to be answered for how targeting in Guild Wars 2 should work, and I’m sure these will be answered as we continue to iterate.

About time, and thank you.

lorazcyk.8927:

I know it’s not a perfect solution, but it’s the lesser of two evils, and it’s much easier to rationalize in the player’s mind than the current behavior we have.

Seriously, just drop your solution. It’s not the direction to take on this issue. I’ve already explained why it sucks and you’ve conceded on a few points already but you just put a band-aid on those problems and in-turn, just created more. To sum them up:

1. Fast flicking will not be possible with your solution. That is a big problem.
2. Fast flicking will now cause the camera to not move at all. That is a bigger problem.
3. The player would have to rotate the camera slower and consciously think about. This takes away preference, instinctive reaction, and is just plain annoying.
4. It will force players into camera-mode when they may have been prolonging their mouse release for a reason because there is no pixel threshold. This takes away preference and control.

These are only 4 problems that I thought of in very little of time. I’m sure I could think of other unwanted consequences that your solution would bring if I thought on it a bit more. Your solution may sound fine by itself, but when you combine it with countless other factors and player preferences in practice, it doesn’t work very well or even at all.

Further, and truly, what is the difference between the consequences of your solution and the current system we have? In both cases, the player still has to be mindful of how they flick the camera. That’s the problem most players are complaining about here. Instead of the brokenness that is the right-mouse targeting, you’ve broken the camera control itself. Players shouldn’t have to be mindful of broken mechanics when flicking the camera.

Just say: “Hey, maybe this isn’t the best way to go about this problem” and call this argument over. You’re preaching a solution that: 1. sucks and 2. is more complicated than just removing right-mouse targeting. If ANet would somehow consider what you are suggesting, then they should ask themselves: “Why? To what overall avail?” Why should they waste their time coding and testing your suggestion if it only breaks something else that is similar in manner?

lorazcyk.8927:

I’m noticing a lot of players reacting too happily, as if by the next patch they’ll be able to have the right click only do camera control, never targeting.

Please people, don’t get too hyped up.

Looks to me as if the toggle will only let you choose between automatically attacking the new target, or only selecting that target without attacking it. You can choose to have the right click targeting behave the same as left click, or choose to have it attack immediately after you select a target. That’s all.

• I’m not really wanting a response here and I’m not criticizing you, as this could be the case but:

Why would he give us a toggle that would make the right-mouse function the same way as the left-mouse? That is just redundant and completely unnecessary and even more so than what we have now. At least as it stands: right-targeting targets, auto-attacks, and doesn’t deselect a target when clicking on the ground. Why would Evan even think to tell the right mouse button to just select a target? What would be the point of having the same function on two different mouse inputs that we can’t remap? shrug

If the new patch comes out and this is actually the case, I’m never touching GW2 or these forums again. This would just tell of the sheer incompetence of the team and would not be worth giving them detailed suggestions anymore or the constant aggravation with playing the game. I hope that this isn’t the case.

Thanks a lot devs, it’s gonna make playing the game that much better.

Please, more simple changes like this in the future.(FOV slider please, toggle for old aoe red circles).

Thank you devs for listening to your fans and improving this part of the game. I can’t wait for the next patch. Kudos

Evan Lesh.3295:

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

Omg, finally...

lorazcyk.8927:

Looks to me as if the toggle will only let you choose between automatically attacking the new target, or only selecting that target without attacking it. You can choose to have the right click targeting behave the same as left click, or choose to have it attack immediately after you select a target. That’s all.
That means that we will probably still accidentally target something, but at least your character will keep auto attacking the old target. Using a targeted skill other than auto attack will still switch targets.

Meh. I never hoped somebody was wrong so much.

I woke up this morning with that sense of dread one feels after waking from a particularly good dream, realizing that it was just a dream. I thought, “Oh, no! It was all just a dream!”

But then I remembered that no, it wasn’t a dream. We really are getting a toggle for right-click targeting!

Of course, then I came back to this thread to confirm it, and I saw this:

Looks to me as if the toggle will only let you choose between automatically attacking the new target, or only selecting that target without attacking it. You can choose to have the right click targeting behave the same as left click, or choose to have it attack immediately after you select a target. That’s all.

Thanks, Iorazcyk. You’re a ray of sunshine on a cloudy day, you know that? I don’t know where we’d be without your glad tidings of good cheer.

I hope when he says “next patch” he means the one today. I was impatient before, but now I’m doubly so.

800 posts later. the problem is resolved!

Huzzah! Good to see this is going to be resolved!

Evan Lesh.3295:

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

Ten thousand thank you’s, sir.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Evan Lesh.3295:

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

Ten thousand thank you’s, sir.

What, I never get more than one congratulation, and this guy gets ten thousand thank you’s? I’m insulted, Leech…

Evan Lesh.3295:

…….On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

There are still questions left to be answered for how targeting in Guild Wars 2 should work, and I’m sure these will be answered as we continue to iterate.

THANK YOU ANET. I have literally been waiting ages for this and have had to adapt where my mouse hovers and gets soo annoying during (for example) cof p1 end boss where i’m targetting those bloody crystals and i waste an entire skill bar without noticing.

:D So excite!

lorazcyk.8927:
Looks to me as if the toggle will only let you choose between automatically attacking the new target, or only selecting that target without attacking it. You can choose to have the right click targeting behave the same as left click, or choose to have it attack immediately after you select a target. That’s all.
That means that we will probably still accidentally target something, but at least your character will keep auto attacking the old target. Using a targeted skill other than auto attack will still switch targets.

Right mouse clicking should only be for camera movement only.
If what you say is the case then it will make combat even more confusing. I just don’t see it happening that way.

I’ve logged on with the new build, and don’t see any new toggles in there for anything right-click related? Is it really in this patch or is it the “next” patch?

Stormcrow.7513:

Right mouse clicking should only be for camera movement only.
If what you say is the case then it will make combat even more confusing. I just don’t see it happening that way.

That is exactly what needs changed. Or at least make the toggle do this.

I don’t understand why what seems to be a simple fix has been made into a complex “solution” that is just going to introduce new problems, without even fixing the old one.

FlareHeart.4360:

I’ve logged on with the new build, and don’t see any new toggles in there for anything right-click related? Is it really in this patch or is it the “next” patch?

I`m guessing it is the next “patch” rather then this segment of “living story”.

As for the rumours of it being a toggle to just turn it into another LMB click, I hope that turns out to be wrong, as it will be just as stupid as having rmb doing camera & attack…

If only they would let us turn our character, while holding right mouse button down. It only works while moving, but not when standing still, which is annoying.

I’m pretty sure that it’s not going to be a toggle that makes RMB the same as LMB, because if that’s the case, the imminent kittenstorm would be one that would be remembered for a long time…

Of course, it’s Anet we’re talking about.

Evan Lesh.3295:

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

Thank.. God..

I have posted this suggestion so many freaking times since launch. I have no logical comprehension as to why in the hell it’s taken so long to do this.

Evan Lesh.3295:

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

Can’t wait to click that toggle to get rid of my primary concern about GW2. Thanks in advance.

Any news about which patch this will be in?

I’ll be happy when this is added because I constantly target things accidently on my elementalist. This is especially true when I use staff in large group events, THEN have to deal with tabbing to target or attempting to click the boss through the stream of particle effects and people blocking the way (I am an asura, very small).

Stormcrow.7513:

Any news about which patch this will be in?

I’m guessing it will be the June 11 patch.

There have been several updates since the comment was made, but I think those count as “hotfixes.” The next “patch” will be the big one on June 11.

I misinterpreted what you were saying. Your demo only works if you hold the button down and don’t move the mouse at all. However if you use it to turn the camera or mouse steer it won’t target anyone when you release the button provided you don’t click too fast. I was thinking you were saying the latter was causing it. Thanks for posting the video.

lorazcyk.8927:

Faux Play.6104:

Post a video showing your options. sounds to me like you are confusing the mouse targeting glitch with some of the auto targeting features that are in the game. I have never seen a delayed target switch. It either does it when you click or it dosen’t. I can only cause the target loss with camera motion on a fast click <1s.

The options you’re talking about only apply to left click. Right click automatically attacks the target. You yourself spoke of this button behavior difference in your other thread.
If you watch my videos, you’ll see a “delayed target switch”. A purple ping shows a right click (and I hold the button down after I press it).
Check the syvlari videos and the bunny/grawl video.
.

A pity that banditcam doesn’t show that I’m holding the button down, it only pings when I first press down, it should show the purple ping the whole time I hold the button down.

Thanks for the update. Sounds like you are looking at everything not just making a knee jerk patch. Personally I’m hoping the timing threshold is reduced, or a slider is added. I use right click target a lot, but I don’t want it going off when I’m moving the camera.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Got an update for you guys! Thanks to everyone for dissecting the current state of targeting!

There is certainly a bug with prolonged mouse-presses and not moving the cursor. I am fixing this. However, this is certainly an extreme case and fixing this will not solve all issues players are experiencing.

The current click timing threshold is 250ms. We are playing with a lower number internally to see if it causes problems like people perceiving clicks as not registering.

There is also window of error when clicking that could cause your mouse-release to select something different from what was hovered during the mouse-press. While this should also very rarely happen with the timing and distance thresholds, it is still a potential problem that will be fixed.

On top of all this is still player preference. Not everyone wants a single right-click to perform default actions. This is why we’re adding a toggle for it in the next patch.

There are still questions left to be answered for how targeting in Guild Wars 2 should work, and I’m sure these will be answered as we continue to iterate.

Looks like tomorrow might be the big day.
We will see if the promises are kept and the annoying target loss if finally gone for good.

with a warrior, it’s annoying.
with a necromancer, it’s extremely frustrating.
so yes please, get rid of this pesky feature, it ruins everything.

BALANCE, BUG-FIXING, POLISH
General
Added a new combat/movement toggle option: “Right-Click to Attack/Interact”.

Gods bless you good sirs!