Guild Wars 2

No post-level-cap player progression. Thank you.

I think post level cap player progression is already in the game in the form of exotics… and I wouldnt mind a little more progression for the sake of being bored…

but the real reason I am bored is because the WvW maps are too small. Unless you play on one of the top 6 servers, you probably wont notice. But when 1 zerg roams around the map in minutes until contested by another zerg… thats failure.

Anet looked at DAoC and thought, ‘that was good because people love to zerg’.. instead of realizing that it was good because of proper map design. Anet created Borderlands and it really narrows gameplay, has too few keeps and all of the maps have their objectives too close together.. this makes your WvW experience very choreographed.. when it should be an exciting unique and slightly random experience every time.

We’re sorry you’re bored. Perhaps that’s why there are things other than WvWvW in the game.

So, what keeps people playing when the match is decidedly won days before the end? Without personal progression, people won’t bother to come out just to get their kitten handed to them.

Quit being so short sighted. You are embarrassing yourselves.

Edit – ToA killed DAoC for me. When gear decided fights, it was over.

i cant stop laughing at the mock of my accidental typo.. anyway i dont want to pwn noobs i want equalish fighting pvp.. out and out players v players….

Like i said WAR flopped cause as you described its rr were to unbalanced, daoc wasnt that way and such the only person ( that i know of) that has hit rr13 is just that one person!

Im not trying to make gw2 daoc, i just putting a point across that adding to your char is what keeps people going…. tell me one game where you have played a char for 6months+ without gaining anything other than money!?

Also with the ra system it gave classes that are the same different routes to take… you can back yourself more to attack or more to defense, or a spread of the two. diversity also adds to player improvement and players fun

The problem is that your only definition of ‘fun’ is something GW2 doesn’t offer. It didn’t offer it before launch, and they made it quite plain that nothing of the sort would be offered.

So, one has to wonder: why did you buy the game when they made their philosophy on this very clear up front? This smacks of trolling.

how have they made it quite plain that it wont be offered? Im sure i read a dev post saying that it was going to be implemented after release yet i havnt mentioned it as i cant remember where i seen the post, so without evidence i wont say that as fact…. may i ask where your evidence is?

Also a difference of opinion isnt trolling.. you may wish to broaden your mind a little and start to except that others have opinions that are not the same as yours but just as valid and worth just as much….

GW2 WvWvW isn’t DAoC. It will not be made into DAoC. It won’t become “he who has the most time on his hands wins”.

You have a choice: learn how to have fun in WvWvW, or constantly be dissatisfied with a purchase you had ample opportunity to learn about prior to launch.

sorry and where does it even mention daoc?

Why do people think a DAOC style progression system must have a power increase? It doesn’t need to. You can have a point system that gives you ranks/titles and allows you to purchase unique skins for certain rank thresholds (might bring in some $$ for Anet due to re-skins at these ranks). Give them different non power based things to add like finishers or dodge animations. Let the ranks or title be displayed in WvW. Track all WvW PvP stats you can think of for individuals and display them the main website. Unlock titles for specific stats (100/500/1000 solo kills for instance).

You can have PvP progression AND a guild wars power plateau all at the same time AND IT WILL BE GLORIOUS!

^^^^^^ about time someone with some bloody sense at last

I wish I could use my own lumber to repair doors and create trebs instead of having to to spend money on trebs and supply.

This will never happen. Know why? No one today will play a game with the depth of DAoC. They like their scaled down noob friendly games. I keep stealing this line from someone else here but its like fast food. Kinda crappy but quick and easy to obtain.

Could you imagine if most of these players had to bust out a specially coded calculator to make their suit of armor? It would end up in the largest whine thread ever.

tarnin.1690:

I keep stealing this line from someone else here but its like fast food.

HAY that’s mine

How about WvW progression involving gems? Each rank up you would get gem rewards along with unlocking of armor skins. That would help drive the PvE folks to WvW and make it profitable for people to fight for their server.

I loved DAoC and I think it should be the basis for any WvWvW system but RAs I think are really against what their goals are, granted the orb buff is too imo, but I dont think it should be at all

Really if they swapped the outmanned buff with the orb buff (which btw makes total sense) I think it would allow more participation. Making the leader stronger to beat is very counter intuitive

There’s a ton of back-and-forth silly arguments in this thread.

Good suggestion for GW2:

1. Add “realm ranks”.
2. Cosmetic finishers.
3. Bonus titles inherent in the player’s display name in WvW (e.g. no longer just “Jade Quarry Invader”).
4. Bonus armor/weapon skins.
5. ??

Edit:

RAs that actually give you power are pretty dumb, unless you really want to see Thief burst combos start to land for >40k damage.

EasymodeX.4062:

There’s a ton of back-and-forth silly arguments in this thread.

Good suggestion for GW2:

1. Add “realm ranks”.
2. Cosmetic finishers.
3. Bonus titles inherent in the player’s display name in WvW (e.g. no longer just “Jade Quarry Invader”).
4. Bonus armor/weapon skins.
5. ??

Edit:

RAs that actually give you power are pretty dumb, unless you really want to see Thief burst combos start to land for >40k damage.

That’s why you do it like Champ levels. Those were a very side ways upgrade. Like the bard got a slow casting disease and str/con debuff and a ton of useless slow casting dd’s.

Also, why do we only see titles in the name plate when you click on someone? In DAoC it was like this

Name
<Guild>
Title

So for me it was:

   Tarnin Sava
<Militis Mortis>
Bane of Midgard

UI clutter.

To be honest it’s better not to have many rows of “NAME” when you have 50+ people on the screen. They could add in the option to customize the “NAME” display.

The cleanest way to implement it is to change the “Servername Invader” to something more intimidating/kitten based on rank.

“Neither are you apparently. ;p

DaoC’s decline was gradual, it never suffered any sort of massive sudden deathblow from WoW. ToA did in essence kill DaoC by introducing a brutal power grind and a set of top heavy I Win abilities and items as rewards. Hence when they launched ToA free classic servers they quickly became the most popular."

Are you joking?
http://www.mmodata.net/
It lost over 30k Subscriptions the month of WoW launch. That is a massive Deathblow to game. TOA increased the number of subscribers flat out. As for Classics, Classics were popular for one reason, They were new servers… You can see that trend whenever any game releases New Servers….Hell even DAOC has that Trend not once but twice. Classics = Mordred/Andred, Which did the same thing when they were released, Huge Swaths of players left the old servers, and went to them.. Then slowly over time they moved back to the original servers, Why do you think Classics no longer exist, Because the population go to low on them.

“ToA required massive coordinated efforts and unspeakable time sinks and tipped the whole game as a result. It also tied PvE grinding directly to RvR advancement which kitten lots of people off. RvR degraded into a matter of who had what RA / Master Level / Artifact abilities up. There were several abilities and artifacts that could literally automatically win a fight ( lawl Forceful Zephyr ~ ) and others that were so powerful they became required ( Bodyguard ).”

TOA didn’t require massive coordination, It required massive amounts of people, Unless you were Albion/Hibernia, then it required 1 group or less. I Afked through most of the ML’s on my multiple characters during Midgard play… Because it was simply wait for them to say "Hey we’re havin ML1-9 on such and such at such and such time) and I’d show up, Join one of the 2 200 man battlegroups that would form up, and then just Stick. TG Raids Required far far more coordination then ML raids by far.

RA Abilities mattered more Pre TOA then RA’s/ML’s Post TOA. And what mattered more then both is your Class. Lets face it, Unless you had Purge up in Pre NF days on your character, and you got Dragonfanged by an Infil, You were probably dead.. It was a 9 second bloody stun that trumped every thing you could do unless you had a 30 Min ability up that might give you a fighting chance. My Zerker Pre Left Axe Nerf could 2-3 Shot people who had RA’s up, and there usually wasn’t squat they could do (unless it was an Infil) Two Handed Savage anyone? Hell when I was H2H on my Savage I one shot people….ONE SHOT.. It nothing to do with RA’s/Ml’s and everything to do with Class.

Gear Also mattered before TOA as well. Bout the only time it didn’t was pre SI. However SI introduced the Raid Dungeon Weapons, Which were far better then the player crafted weapons back then. TOA jumped in this regard but to claim it didn’t happen before TOA is just silly.

Also FZ never auto won a fight.

“Most fundamentally required pvp functions were also RA’s ( Purge, Ignore Pain, Determination, Charge, etc ) and hitting the higher RRs wasn’t easy unless you had a dedicated guild group or just zerged all the time for a handful of rpz here and there. Mixed with ToA it made for one kitten of a barrier to entry and I imagine turned off quite a few new players in its day.

So no, GW2 doesn’t need RAs. Display ranks ala DaoC would be nice however as would any manner of earnable aesthetic modifications."

A. Hitting high enough rank to get those abilities didn’t require a group, and didn’t take that long. General Rule was you needed about RR5 before you could start becoming competitive, If you hit RR7, and you weren’t able to hold your own, You were pretty bad and no amount of upgrades would help.

B. How is ML’s/Gear a barrier when you can do it before you ever step foot into PvP, and if it could win fights, like you stated, then RR’s would completely be negated by Gear would it not? I mean you said FZ was auto win? SO that means an RR1 with Ml10 and TOA gear should be able to beat a RR10 with ML10/TOA gear if he got FZ off right?

So in closing, Follow what I told the last guy, don’t post about DAOC if you don’t know squat about it’s development, and apparently so bad you thought getting RR7 in the game was difficult.

It wasn’t the game, It was you….

As much as I loved Daoc (Was RR8 before ToA and all that), I don’t see ANet implementing RAs no matter how many threads that pop up.

Core philosophy of GW2/ANet is easy plateau in terms of gear/abilities and they are waiting until ‘dust settles’ before changing anything drastic in the game (1-3 months), my guess is during winter holidays.

If nothing changes.. by that time ex-daoc players will casually logon to WvW to reminisce the glory days and logout with distaste in their mouth knowing GW2 will never be close to what Daoc really had to offer.

Daoc is now the new Firefly of MMO

Yes for ranks!!!!

Already tired of seeing DAOC fanboi post now….

Adding titles, skins and what not I think would be a good idea though.

I think something along the lines of DICE Battlelog/battlereport in Battlefield 3 could work really well. They dont boost power, the boost variety and cosmetics and provide stat comparisons, cosmetics include uniforms and dogtags, variety offer different weapon options that are designed to be different but not powerful. For example a assault rifle would have a higher rate of fire but deal less damage, this translated to GW2 might (I stress might as this is an example) be an alternative weapon skill slotted in replacement of a current one. Example, an Elementalist using staff gains 10, 000 lava font kills, now he has the option of continuing to use laba font, or he can replace slot 2 with a new ability of comparable power but different variety

RAs wouldn’t make a large impact on this game for the simple fact that they won’t be extra abilities on your bar. They’ll have to compete with class utilities, and elites (which are supposed to be overpowered). Sure you could go the passive stat route, but actives are more fun, and easier to balance than stats especially considering stats for pve/wvw are already ridiculously high compared to spvp (which is broken in its own right against the poor lowbies).

At the same time the other posters are right, the grind must continue once they implement it (raising caps).

You can’t compare RAs in daoc to the ones that would be in this game though because I seriously doubt Anet would introduce such a large power gap into the game if they did it at all. In many ways it could help wvw if they did it correctly. A shorter cd stun break to balance out the fact that you’d face more sources of cc, a better condition removal for the same reason. A more group oriented elite skill would help classes with already weak elites. Sure the elites could just be looked at for the sake of balance, but the condition/stun breaks will not. Maybe even adding some ward type utilities that give the # of enemies in the immediate vicinity.

Minor things like these would be large for the player themselves and their enjoyment of the game (while also adding more strategy to wvw), but rather small in the grand scheme of a fight.

Xsorus.2507

It lost over 30k Subscriptions the month of WoW launch. That is a massive Deathblow to game. TOA increased the number of subscribers flat out.

Might want to actually read the charts you’re linking. Seeing as they show exactly what I said. DaoC suffered a gradual decline. Also the supposed “deathblow” you’re referring too actually corresponds with the launch of with a couple of major titles ( WoW, EQII, CoV ). Which is perfectly understandable.

Xsorus.2507

Gear Also mattered before TOA as well. Bout the only time it didn’t was pre SI. However SI introduced the Raid Dungeon Weapons, Which were far better then the player crafted weapons back then.

All that mattered pre-ToA was being able to afford a spellcrafted, overcharged suit of player crafted armour. Before SI, all that mattered was masterpiece player crafted. SI dungeon loot didn’t really matter at all unless you wanted some trophies.

Xsorus.2507

TOA didn’t require massive coordination, It required massive amounts of people, Unless you were Albion/Hibernia, then it required 1 group or less.

You quite obviously did not play ToA at release. Otherwise you would recall the 6-8 hour raids required to move through the master level steps. Often times with encounters that would punish the raid as a whole for the stupidity of a single person. Or which routinely kittened players out of encounter credit due to bugs or straight up by design ( Motherkittening harpies >.> ).

On top of that you had scroll farming for hours just to activate artifacts and then pointless mob grinding to level them up.

I’m impressed you remember pre-diminishing returns Infiltrators, but not ToA’s launch. ;p

Haelindiel who are you going to fight with when everyone quits? Titan alliance already quit and most of it already quit the game, it’s just boring. No reason to continue. No progression = no people. I give it another month. I’m already finding better things to do.

no RAs.

WvW titles yes ( they already have this)
WvW skins yes pls
Real kitten Commander titles based on WvW achievement not gold!
More GUILD WvW stat tracking. this game is called GUILD wars??
You should be able to click on a guild banner on the objectives in WvW and see some stats (guild name, time held, # attacker killed)

All of above available from web, ala the Herald.

realm (or whatever the name) ranks, yes
rank based items and gear, no
realm (or whatever the name) abilities, no.
advantages : 1 extra trait per rank (based on an expectation that a casual player can reach rank 5 in 6 months and the hardcore players who got to 80 in 3-4 days will have a full time job getting to rank 10 in 1 year).

this is a very simple and strait forward system that provides the ‘carrot’ of (very little and slow, but it’s there) character advancement that i find missing in wvwvw too, without adding OP stuff.

willwill.9318:

Haelindiel who are you going to fight with when everyone quits? Titan alliance already quit and most of it already quit the game, it’s just boring. No reason to continue. No progression = no people. I give it another month. I’m already finding better things to do.

People who need a virtual participation trophy every few days/weeks/months to continue playing a game aren’t any great loss.

I’d much rather have fewer people in WvWvW when the people there want to be there because they enjoy WvWvW, not because they’re grinding for some reward.

I’m against anything that would give you a boost in power the longer you played.

That would just feed account selling and deter new players from ever picking up the game if they missed the chance to start at release because they will perceive they can never catch up.

Titles on the other hand…or strictly visual upgrades = Totally would be awesome and should be in the game. People DO deserve recognition for being awesome in WvW and being good at it. Maybe titles for Kill/death ratios and not strictly just kill counts would be a good idea. But titles none the less need to be in!

tarnin.1690:

Like i said to the others in another DAoC thread, you will be gone soon due to lack of something to do. Most of them are gone. You gen4 fast fooders need to just stick to wow. It’s the game for you. If it too “grindy” for you then go play a console game.

That’s hilarious. I’m probably old enough to be your father. I was playing video games before you could even pronounce the words.

DAoC is a different game. This is GW2. No matter how much you hold your breath and stomp your feet, they’re not going to turn it into DAoC 2 for you.

“I’m against anything that would give you a boost in power the longer you played.
That would just feed account selling and deter new players from ever picking up the game if they missed the chance to start at release because they will perceive they can never catch up.
Titles on the other hand…or strictly visual upgrades = Totally would be awesome and should be in the game. People DO deserve recognition for being awesome in WvW and being good at it. Maybe titles for Kill/death ratios and not strictly just kill counts would be a good idea. But titles none the less need to be in!”

I’m pretty sure all of you think RA’s were the end all be all of DAoC. They were not. ToA (a PVE expansion) had more of an impact in RvR than RA’s did. A RR1 could beat a RR11, I should know, I soloed on a visible caster up to RR9 and killed plenty of much higher RR’s than myself.

Balidore.2790:

I know what you’re saying Tzash, but RA’s arn’t game breaking advantages. They’re just little things like…. +3% to crit dmg :/ +40 power… etc… Little things that take a long time to get.

We already have these. Earn influence for your guild, then sponsor a keep and activate the abilities.

tarnin.1690:

“I’m against anything that would give you a boost in power the longer you played.
That would just feed account selling and deter new players from ever picking up the game if they missed the chance to start at release because they will perceive they can never catch up.
Titles on the other hand…or strictly visual upgrades = Totally would be awesome and should be in the game. People DO deserve recognition for being awesome in WvW and being good at it. Maybe titles for Kill/death ratios and not strictly just kill counts would be a good idea. But titles none the less need to be in!”

I’m pretty sure all of you think RA’s were the end all be all of DAoC. They were not. ToA (a PVE expansion) had more of an impact in RvR than RA’s did. A RR1 could beat a RR11, I should know, I soloed on a visible caster up to RR9 and killed plenty of much higher RR’s than myself.

Did you even read my post? No where do I say RA’s where the end all be all of DAoC. I clearly said that anything that boosts power would NOT be a good idea.

Please read stuff thoroughly before you make a counterargument based on something that wasn’t said.

Last I checked, GW2 has more than just WvW. While I may not play WvW every single day for the next 7 years, I’m pretty sure it would be a major part of how I spent my time in GW2. There was absolutely no progression whatsoever in GW1 (unless you count getting Hero title progression, which we have in GW2 anyway), and I still played that all the way till GW2 released.

All I see here is former DAOC players QQing that GW2 is not DAOC2. GW2 has it’s own systems and history that they perfected from GW1. If you’re unhappy with how it is, don’t play it. The rest of us that don’t need grindy virtual rewards just so they can faceroll new players would be happy with the lower queues and having fun with people who wants to have fun.

Haelindiel.2481:

Last I checked, GW2 has more than just WvW. While I may not play WvW every single day for the next 7 years, I’m pretty sure it would be a major part of how I spent my time in GW2. There was absolutely no progression whatsoever in GW1 (unless you count getting Hero title progression, which we have in GW2 anyway), and I still played that all the way till GW2 released.

All I see here is former DAOC players QQing that GW2 is not DAOC2. GW2 has it’s own systems and history that they perfected from GW1. If you’re unhappy with how it is, don’t play it. The rest of us that don’t need grindy virtual rewards just so they can faceroll new players would be happy with the lower queues and having fun with people who wants to have fun.

You faceroll new players in WvW as 80 anyway lmao

If ANet liked how the game was with GW1, they would not have put in WvW and if you liked GW1 so much I could easily say go play GW1 and not play WvW at all

Fact of the matter is, people who created WvW portion in GW2 has background from Mythic Entertainment that created Daoc so stop trying to convince daoc players that GW2 =/= Daoc, GW2/ANet was the one that started all this with WvW