Guild Wars 2

This situation is rapidly decaying into yet another case of it taking a combination of Eredon’s Terrace and Ferguson’s Crossing throwing in the towel and going on vacation from WvW for a couple weeks paired with some miraculous drop in the next highest server’s rating to get the big dog of this tier to advance.

The ascent is miserably slow, extremely demoralizing for those on these servers who love WvW, and no matter how hard we try arguments seem to break out of no where in the forums because we’re all getting frustrated with these painfully slow weeks of domination. With the frustrations increasing its coupled with this feeling that you have to keep a tight lid on everything you type else face the risk of increasingly common forum infractions. (Which in my opinion are handed out far too readily whenever “Arena Net” is typed in a paragraph in a non-positive light.)

Take a look for yourselves, with near identical scores in the past weeks Sorrow’s Furnace got 50+ rating increases every time. Yet last week despite a rather unchanged ending score, the rating was a mere 14+, and will likely continue to decrease unless 600+ ppt starts to be achieved. Yet the more we throw in the towel, simply the more it encourages hardcore WvW players of Eredon’s Terrace and Ferguson’s Crossing to transfer to a different server as the trend is that WvW match-ups never work out well down here. Something that this whole “new era” of transfer fees was supposed to be discouraging, not encouraging as it is.

After reading through the entirety of this thread I’ve come to the conclusion that most who offer some semblance of a solution have taking the position of punishing the successful servers which reminds me of the mentality of the OWS (bowel)movement.

I just wonder how any of these servers could feel an ounce of pride knowing they couldnt use the metrics everyone else has used that have been on top whether it was t1 -t8.

Take Kainege for instance they were bottom of the wv3 ranking just 2 months ago now they are on the threshold of moving in to t1 so you guys in t8 do some self reflection and you’ll discover its your crying and quitting mentality that’s your problem not your competition.

So lets change the metrics to me just reeks of poor sportsmanship.

FilthyRat.4652:

And look at your teammate that made post right before you about changing SF score so pretty sure it wasn’t one of us.

My apologies if this sounds a little defensive on my part, but did you really just imply what I think you just did? Especially after I made a point of stating multiple times in my post that I thought that it would be a terrible idea to actually send in a false report, did I actually just read what I thought I just read?

I even sent a PM to Weris about the request to deliberately avoid this. And yet, when I stop by here to read the thread, I find someone has the audacity to come into this thread not 5 posts after this and accuse me of such folly? Do you just get a kick out of trying to stir up conflict, or is your reading comprehension simply that bad?

If I misread the tone of your post, please inform to the contrary of my current understanding and I’ll take back everything I just said as a simple misunderstanding. But don’t come in here, slander my name, and – more importantly – endeavour to derail this thread in an infantile attempt to try and start a fight.

Maybe it was someone from FC, but I will not accept the idea that someone was stupid enough submit a false report simply to follow through with a hypothetical idea in my post that was surrounded by a giant “Don’t do this if you value your self worth at all” sign.

On the bright side, I will thank you for bumping the thread, as well as giving me a reason to bump it again without seeming too desperate. And if I didn’t misread the tone of your post, and you come back here to try and back it up, I’ll thank you again for the thread bump.

Detharos.3157:

This situation is rapidly decaying into yet another case of it taking a combination of Eredon’s Terrace and Ferguson’s Crossing throwing in the towel and going on vacation from WvW for a couple weeks paired with some miraculous drop in the next highest server’s rating to get the big dog of this tier to advance.

The ascent is miserably slow, extremely demoralizing for those on these servers who love WvW, and no matter how hard we try arguments seem to break out of no where in the forums because we’re all getting frustrated with these painfully slow weeks of domination. With the frustrations increasing its coupled with this feeling that you have to keep a tight lid on everything you type else face the risk of increasingly common forum infractions. (Which in my opinion are handed out far too readily whenever “Arena Net” is typed in a paragraph in a non-positive light.)

Take a look for yourselves, with near identical scores in the past weeks Sorrow’s Furnace got 50+ rating increases every time. Yet last week despite a rather unchanged ending score, the rating was a mere 14+, and will likely continue to decrease unless 600+ ppt starts to be achieved. Yet the more we throw in the towel, simply the more it encourages hardcore WvW players of Eredon’s Terrace and Ferguson’s Crossing to transfer to a different server as the trend is that WvW match-ups never work out well down here. Something that this whole “new era” of transfer fees was supposed to be discouraging, not encouraging as it is.

+1

Frustration is increasing across the board, and I don’t see it dying down any time soon. Rather than encouraging in-fighting, anybody in T8 who reads this, please encourage everyone you know to come on here and add their voices to this thread in a civilized manner. If enough people keep this thread alive for long enough, I doubt even the worst PR team in the industry, let alone ANet’s team, would ignore the thread.

Hopefully, ANet might respond to this thread before April with a something that adds to the debate, if only so much as a “Shut up already! We don’t agree with you!”

Asglarek.8976:

Cool we need more affirmative action for server minorities its worked so kitten well in real life lets make everyone a winner deservingly or not as long as it makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy inside its a win win amirite?

Moral integrity attached to the sarcasm of your post aside, do you see anyone in this thread arguing that everyone should be a “winner”? We’re arguing that everyone should have a chance to have fun, regardless of the server they’re on.

66.6% of the servers will find themselves losers at the end of each week. That’s a non-issue. The issue is when the entire population of a tier is throwing their hands in the air and wondering why they bother trying to have fun anymore. Please, inform me how the “affirmative action” to increase the overall enjoyment level of WvW you seem opposed to is going to screw things up?

Asglarek.8976:

After reading through the entirety of this thread I’ve come to the conclusion that most who offer some semblance of a solution have taking the position of punishing the successful servers which reminds me of the mentality of the OWS (bowel)movement.

I just wonder how any of these servers could feel an ounce of pride knowing they couldnt use the metrics everyone else has used that have been on top whether it was t1 -t8.

Take Kainege for instance they were bottom of the wv3 ranking just 2 months ago now they are on the threshold of moving in to t1 so you guys in t8 do some self reflection and you’ll discover its your crying and quitting mentality that’s your problem not your competition.

So lets change the metrics to me just reeks of poor sportsmanship.

Nice job with the complete post edit. I’m wondering if the way I format my posts prevents quote updates, or if these forums simply don’t allow it. I haven’t seen something to compare it with, so I couldn’t actually tell you.

In counter to your hastily thrown together last-minute-argument, let me just remind you that what you just said literally amounts to the following:

“Why can’t you just get massive free transfers as well? Kain did! You guys just reek of poor sportsmanship!”

Do I really need to go on to shoot this argument down…?

if he had actually read the thread, he would realize the issue isnt population, its that theres a nearly 300 point gap in the ratings… i dont even know why youre responding to his post ><

Takerukun.8924:

Asglarek.8976:

After reading through the entirety of this thread I’ve come to the conclusion that most who offer some semblance of a solution have taking the position of punishing the successful servers which reminds me of the mentality of the OWS (bowel)movement.

I just wonder how any of these servers could feel an ounce of pride knowing they couldnt use the metrics everyone else has used that have been on top whether it was t1 -t8.

Take Kainege for instance they were bottom of the wv3 ranking just 2 months ago now they are on the threshold of moving in to t1 so you guys in t8 do some self reflection and you’ll discover its your crying and quitting mentality that’s your problem not your competition.

So lets change the metrics to me just reeks of poor sportsmanship.

Nice job with the complete post edit. I’m wondering if the way I format my posts prevents quote updates, or if these forums simply don’t allow it. I haven’t seen something to compare it with, so I couldn’t actually tell you.

In counter to your hastily thrown together last-minute-argument, let me just remind you that what you just said literally amounts to the following:

“Why can’t you just get massive free transfers as well? Kain did! You guys just reek of poor sportsmanship!”

Do I really need to go on to shoot this argument down…?

No. I say don’t bother. I had a fleeting moment where I thought about going after that post, as well, but it’s so silly I can’t help but think I’d be equally as silly taking it seriously.

Just my two cents.

Asglarek.8976:

After reading through the entirety of this thread I’ve come to the conclusion that most who offer some semblance of a solution have taking the position of punishing the successful servers which reminds me of the mentality of the OWS (bowel)movement.

I just wonder how any of these servers could feel an ounce of pride knowing they couldnt use the metrics everyone else has used that have been on top whether it was t1 -t8.

Take Kainege for instance they were bottom of the wv3 ranking just 2 months ago now they are on the threshold of moving in to t1 so you guys in t8 do some self reflection and you’ll discover its your crying and quitting mentality that’s your problem not your competition.

So lets change the metrics to me just reeks of poor sportsmanship.

Wow… I don’t know if you are trolling or just that dense.

insanemaniac.2456:

if he had actually read the thread, he would realize the issue isnt population, its that theres a nearly 300 point gap in the ratings… i dont even know why youre responding to his post ><

1) Free thread bump. Much the same reason I waited to respond to you on purpose.
2) Educating the uneducated is fun.
3) Trolls are good bedtime snacks.

geekanerd.4123:

No. I say don’t bother. I had a fleeting moment where I thought about going after that post, as well, but it’s so silly I can’t help but think I’d be equally as silly taking it seriously.

Just my two cents.

Ha! I probably won’t unless he trys to back up his claims. Then it’s free thread bumps.

Ynot.8397:

Wow… I don’t know if you are trolling or just that dense.

//Guild banter. Please ignore.//

’Bout time you chimed in here again! :P

My laptop can’t even run TS for the next week, so it’s the only way I know the guild’s still alive!

//Edit: We’re about to break 10,000 thread views guys! Awesome job!//

Takerukun.8924:

//Guild banter. Please ignore.//

’Bout time you chimed in here again! :P

My laptop can’t even run TS for the next week, so it’s the only way I know the guild’s still alive!

//Edit: We’re about to break 10,000 thread views guys! Awesome job!//

Why comment when you guys do such a good job? xD Fix your dang laptop and get on TS!

Asglarek.8976:

After reading through the entirety of this thread I’ve come to the conclusion that most who offer some semblance of a solution have taking the position of punishing the successful servers which reminds me of the mentality of the OWS (bowel)movement.

I just wonder how any of these servers could feel an ounce of pride knowing they couldnt use the metrics everyone else has used that have been on top whether it was t1 -t8.

Take Kainege for instance they were bottom of the wv3 ranking just 2 months ago now they are on the threshold of moving in to t1 so you guys in t8 do some self reflection and you’ll discover its your crying and quitting mentality that’s your problem not your competition.

So lets change the metrics to me just reeks of poor sportsmanship.

Finally, some one that understands the game is trying to explain it to everyone else….just be careful if they disagree with you Big brother may be called in to erase your argument. There are many thinned skinned people out there that would like see your post go bye bye and get you a -1 (can’t reference cause I will get another -1 today…only 4 so far when I thought i was being ok)

Takerukun.8924:

Asglarek.8976:

After reading through the entirety of this thread I’ve come to the conclusion that most who offer some semblance of a solution have taking the position of punishing the successful servers which reminds me of the mentality of the OWS (bowel)movement.

I just wonder how any of these servers could feel an ounce of pride knowing they couldnt use the metrics everyone else has used that have been on top whether it was t1 -t8.

Take Kainege for instance they were bottom of the wv3 ranking just 2 months ago now they are on the threshold of moving in to t1 so you guys in t8 do some self reflection and you’ll discover its your crying and quitting mentality that’s your problem not your competition.

So lets change the metrics to me just reeks of poor sportsmanship.

Nice job with the complete post edit. I’m wondering if the way I format my posts prevents quote updates, or if these forums simply don’t allow it. I haven’t seen something to compare it with, so I couldn’t actually tell you.

In counter to your hastily thrown together last-minute-argument, let me just remind you that what you just said literally amounts to the following:

“Why can’t you just get massive free transfers as well? Kain did! You guys just reek of poor sportsmanship!”

Interestingly enough, the argument is so bad that you can actually work the analogy in reverse to rebuke Asglarek’s political philosophy, which presumably everyone is supposed to share.

“Why can’t everyone just be a privileged white guy?!”

But yes, the issue is obviously the 300-point gap and unless you’ve personally worked a server to overcome a 300-point gap without resorting to bandwagon transfers you’re really not in a position to criticize those complaining about it.

SniffyCube.6107:

Simply put, arenanet has made no acknowledgement that the server rankings are broken. If a full reset isn’t on the table then fine, I can see why higher tier servers would not want to go through the grind of roflstomping less population, but that’s what we go through week after week.

There have been a lot of creative suggestions about how we can solve this problem without affecting ANY of the other servers. Honestly, t8 endures the worst beatings and point deficits of any bracket. DR kain were first stuck beating up on smaller servers then once they broke out they soared through the rankings (after getting more players as they progressed but they could have easily made tier 5-6 with their populations before the explosions).

I have seen a lot of players from my server and FC post about this and I have even talked to a few players from SF that are looking for a better fight.

Here are some suggestions and conversations I have had. I feel they better represent how we as a tier feel (please don’t post here if you’re going to troll from another tier, this does not affect you).

If your server complains like that you all won’t last long in other tiers. t1 is horribly outmanned but you don’t see us in here every week with the same stuff. I think Anet gets it. Stop whining. If its that bad get your money up and transfer.

Takerukun.8924:

1) Free thread bump. Much the same reason I waited to respond to you on purpose.
2) Educating the uneducated is fun.
3) Trolls are good bedtime snacks.

yeah but with the whole quoting multiple posts… hes just a speed bump

Bedstain.6735:

If your server complains like that you all won’t last long in other tiers. t1 is horribly outmanned but you don’t see us in here every week with the same stuff. I think Anet gets it. Stop whining. If its that bad get your money up and transfer.

who said anything about other tiers?
that guy isnt on SF
and he wants SF gone, just like everyone else in t8
but SF isnt gone yet, and wont be, because the ratings broke

people keep coming into this thread and thinking were whining about losing. and it just isnt the case. weve taken our losses, and have shown we can stand through them. but we dont want to fight a broken system.

if t8 were … say… t4, SF would have moved to t3 within 3 weeks after a fair fight and 2 solid wins. because there isnt a giant gap in the ratings between t3 and t4.

stop entering this thread and posting that were whining about losing.

Think people are trying to say is what will happen when at tier 7 team move down to tier 8. Most likely the same thing they are competitive in tier 7 and not sure the outcome will be any different.

FilthyRat.4652:

Think people are trying to say is what will happen when at tier 7 team move down to tier 8. Most likely the same thing they are competitive in tier 7 and not sure the outcome will be any different.

But SF lost in T8 the first week it dropped down and barely won the second week. The week before in T7 SF barely lost out to HoD. Now SF is crushing T8. Something changed in SF. They are clearly doing better than before so they deserve a chance in T7. For all we know they have twice as many players as before and can storm past T7.

Firstly, we’re fewer than 200 thread views away from the 10,000 mark. Awesome job guys! Keep up the great work all the way to this thread’s tenth page!

FilthyRat.4652:

Finally, some one that understands the game is trying to explain it to everyone else….just be careful if they disagree with you Big brother may be called in to erase your argument. There are many thinned skinned people out there that would like see your post go bye bye and get you a -1 (can’t reference cause I will get another -1 today…only 4 so far when I thought i was being ok)

Wait…so you’re saying that someone who truly understands this game realizes that the only way to properly play this game is either to get transfers, or transfer yourself? I’m not sure I fully comprehend the profound implications of this idea, but don’t you think that’s a terrible way of looking at things from a quality of service point of view?

“Oh, you can access WvW from the T8 servers, but you shouldn’t play on it. Transfer if you want to actually play WvW.”

Not to sound rude, but could you support your claims with some kind of evidence that has more cohesion than a three year old still suffering from egocentrism?

SoggyFrog.4170:

Interestingly enough, the argument is so bad that you can actually work the analogy in reverse to rebuke Asglarek’s political philosophy, which presumably everyone is supposed to share.

“Why can’t everyone just be a privileged white guy?!”

But yes, the issue is obviously the 300-point gap and unless you’ve personally worked a server to overcome a 300-point gap without resorting to bandwagon transfers you’re really not in a position to criticize those complaining about it.

I’d realized his argument was bad, but you almost made me laugh out loud when I read that. Thank you for brightening my day.

insanemaniac.2456:

yeah but with the whole quoting multiple posts… hes just a speed bump

The debate train doesn’t stop for speed bumps. We crush them as we go by.

insanemaniac.2456:

//Snip! ’Cause character limits suck.//
stop entering this thread and posting that were whining about losing.

^ What Rikkity said. Please, to the people who think we’re whining about “losing” or “lasting in other tiers”, quote us for future reference. If you can’t even do something so mind-numbingly easy as quoting the offending post for ridicule, your argument looks made-up at best.

And Bedstain, as much as ANet probably does “get it”, they have yet to so much as post “We get it.” When they get around to doing that, we will be happy to let this thread sink to the bowels of this forum. However, until such a time that that single condition is met, we will not allow this thread to reach the third page of WvW threads.

Ynot.8397:

FilthyRat.4652:

Think people are trying to say is what will happen when at tier 7 team move down to tier 8. Most likely the same thing they are competitive in tier 7 and not sure the outcome will be any different.

But SF lost in T8 the first week it dropped down and barely won the second week. The week before in T7 SF barely lost out to HoD. Now SF is crushing T8. Something changed in SF. They are clearly doing better than before so they deserve a chance in T7. For all we know they have twice as many players as before and can storm past T7.

^ What Ynot said. Who knows, maybe you’re right. Maybe there is no third server that will fit into T8. However, the first two weeks SF was down in T8 were the best weeks of WvW T8 has had in over 5 months. It didn’t matter that FC won the first week. It didn’t matter that SF won the last week. All sides had roughly an equal showing for the duration of the match. After that, for whatever reason, something changed.

So, forgive us our delusions. Those first two weeks have given us hope that – just maybe – another T7 server would be a more balanced match up than SF. But with the current ratings pit that this thread is about, we won’t get a chance to test this until everyone in T8 has given up and transferred away. That will not be a test of the current argument. That will be everyone who thinks we are just whining getting a confirmational bias based off of a self-fulfilling, never ending spiral.

On a somewhat related note, I feel like this thread is getting filibustered by all sides. Thank you to everyone who is doing so, as it keeps this thread bumped. Keep up the great work!

Takerukun, you sir are a shiny ray of light in an otherwise muddy pool of delusion.

I’ve been reading ignorant comments of us being complainers, bad players, lazy for not transfering out of a tier 8 server and have been trying to find the perfect way to respond that wasn’t snarky or insulting. And thankfully you come along and sum it all up in yet another of your post.

ET and FC don’t care if we lose, would we like to win yes, but if we get out played so be it. We just want the chance at the win, we’ve discovered that we can’t beat the current SF, the reasons don’t matter. SF has proven it week after week. Even if we get beat by every new server that comes to T8, atleast going into the week we’ll feel like we have a chance, as it is now when the new week starts we know we have around 3 to 4 hours of us winning before SF really shows up and then all is lost.

So, for every other server player that reads this thread, take it for what it is, us frustrated not with SF for beating us(more power tot hem and I wish them luck for when the finally move on, if ever) we’re frustrated with a system so broken that it doesn’t give us the chance for anything but to be stomped week in and week out by a server that should have already gone its seperate way from ET and FC.

And Takerukun hit the nail on the head when he said that when someone from Anet says “We get it and we’re looking into it” we’ll let this thread die. Once I see those words from someone at Anet they can lock and delete the thread for all I care because at that point it will have served its purpose.

Back to the first page with you! Twenty views to get to 10,000 guys!

TheGhostBaron.1250:

Takerukun, you sir are a shiny ray of light in an otherwise muddy pool of delusion.

I’ve been reading ignorant comments of us being complainers, bad players, lazy for not transfering out of a tier 8 server and have been trying to find the perfect way to respond that wasn’t snarky or insulting. And thankfully you come along and sum it all up in yet another of your post.

Flattery will get you everywhere.

But yeah, you have no idea how hard it was not break out the snark for some of that. Well, actually, you do, seeing as how you’re posting about the exact same issues. But you know what I mean?

TheGhostBaron.1250:

ET and FC don’t care if we lose, would we like to win yes, but if we get out played so be it. We just want the chance at the win, we’ve discovered that we can’t beat the current SF, the reasons don’t matter. SF has proven it week after week. Even if we get beat by every new server that comes to T8, atleast going into the week we’ll feel like we have a chance, as it is now when the new week starts we know we have around 3 to 4 hours of us winning before SF really shows up and then all is lost.

So, for every other server player that reads this thread, take it for what it is, us frustrated not with SF for beating us(more power tot hem and I wish them luck for when the finally move on, if ever) we’re frustrated with a system so broken that it doesn’t give us the chance for anything but to be stomped week in and week out by a server that should have already gone its seperate way from ET and FC.

And Takerukun hit the nail on the head when he said that when someone from Anet says “We get it and we’re looking into it” we’ll let this thread die. Once I see those words from someone at Anet they can lock and delete the thread for all I care because at that point it will have served its purpose.

+1

Yeah, I’m hoping that by this point, people realize we aren’t complaining about SF. We’re complaining about a system that keeps SF in place when they clearly don’t belong where they are. Yes, they’re replacement might also not belong in T8, but we won’t know that until they drop and face us. And at the current rate that’s projected to come about, there won’t be anyone left in T8 to even test this idea out when it happens.

By the way, as much as this only partially relates to the discussion at hand, it’s probably worth mentioning. I’m having more fun fighting off differing opinions and trolls in this thread than I am when I can log into the game for WvW. That might be worth thinking about…

I agree with the issue being the system and not the team SF. For all the people who say stop crying and move…what does that fix? the system is still broken.

I thought a simple thread bump was in order. Maybe someone who actually does something at ANet will read it.

What’s this? We’ve broken the 10,000 thread view count and nobody mentioned it when they bumped the thread in celebration?!

Let’s see this thread to the 20,000 mark guys!

Guapo El.1754:

I agree with the issue being the system and not the team SF. For all the people who say stop crying and move…what does that fix? the system is still broken.

+1

A new face! Not only that, but a new face who realizes what the issue in this thread is? What witchcraft is this? Err…jokes aside, I’m glad to see someone else joining in the debate. (And the thread bumping!) Keep coming out of the shadows guys! The light doesn’t hurt…much.

Ynot.8397:

I thought a simple thread bump was in order. Maybe someone who actually does something at ANet will read it.

Much appreciated bumping power! We will not let this thread die!

It’s odd, but I’m actually sad that nobody posted in counter to this thread since I checked last. It’s much easier to keep a thread bumped when engaged in a duel of wits.

Also, even though I could not agree with your parting statement any more if I tried, I’ll try my hand at a defence of ANet for anybody reading in an attempt to keep the thread to a naive and positive atmosphere. Wish me luck:

I’d be shocked to find out nobody on ANet’s WvW team had yet to read the thread. I’d even take a gamble at saying someone truly high up in the WvW team might have even read this thread by now. After all, any development team that truly cared about their baby would have to come on the forums every now and then and see what the players are saying. The question is whether they have the rank, power, and authority in the entirety of ANet to respond with something more than an auto-generated response, and whether they bother to read this thread.

Based on the distinct lack of such responses by them in this thread, I’m assuming that’s the issue. Maybe I’m suffering from delusions of grandeur, but this thread has been on the front page repeatedly for a week now, and nobody has been hit by the ban-hammer yet. Someone in ANet must have been curious by now. However, the issue does get a bit more confusing when you factor in that they might not be allowed to respond at all, even in situations where they cannot disagree more. But until this thread is locked, and while I remain unbanned, I will assume they are merely muzzled by bureaucracy.

I’m posting in this thread mostly just to keep it bumped. Seems about as good a spot as any. My FC guild is mumbling about transferring whole-sale. We’re not the biggest guild in FC by a long stretch, but we certainly have a presence. And we have a lot of avid WvWvWers. It’s getting tougher and tougher to keep them motivated to run the meat-grinder that is tier 8. It’s hard to convince people to do a thing when you’re not so convinced that it’s worth doing yourself.

I don’t want to leave Ferguson’s Crossing. But I will if my guild does. Therein lies the rub: If some sort of solution isn’t offered, or some sort of fix isn’t made, it’s going to become a ghost town — even more so than it already is — in FC. Not today, not tomorrow, but soon. Banging our heads against this futility is taking it’s toll.

I don’t have the answers. Plenty of folks have already offered various solutions, situations. Whether any of these are feasible or not, I’ve no idea. Something needs to be done, though. Or else FC is going to lose yet another guild, paid transfers or no. And I promise that we won’t be the last. Not an ultimatum, just a sad realization.

Good luck out there.

100% agreed with OP, for every fact. WvW to Anet is no where near as important as stupid fractals….

This thread is dying because (most likely)
1. people are transferring out of ET and FC (or worse yet, abandoning the game) and don’t give a hoot about T8 any more
2. The lack of Anet’s response is causing people to stop farting against the wind
3. people said what they have to say and if that’s not cause for concern for Anet to return with a response, well then players are probably just lifting the middle finger and moving on to another game
4. players perceptive is that there is no solution, there never was a solution and there never will be a solution. So why bother, just gtfo.

A bit of pure speculation, but I wonder if we could consider Anets neglect of tier 8 as a possible indication of there intent to merge servers in the near future. They may not feel a need to balance the tier if they intend on doing away with it.

My solution to the tier 8 situation is to set a floor on ratings. If no server could go under say 800 or 900. I believe that would help increase the chance for movement between tier 7&8, since T8 1st place would be earning more points for wining. I’d imagine you would have to not set it too high and end up with a string of servers vaulting into tier 6 every week.
I have not dug into the formulas used by the Glicko-2, nor do i know the details of Anet’s custom version so I don’t know if this would inflate scores above tier 8 and cause trouble. I’d guess you would get some inflation, compacting or expanding of the total ratings range, or some combination of the two~ if there even would be and effect for 1-7.

FilthyRat.4652:

And be truthful about the real situation on your servers please with all the infighting, guilds not working together, and the way people act in map chat. i have talked to several member that came to our server in the week alone.

If people are paying to get out of there and come with awful stories about certain servers then it seems like you need to do some internal work and and start working together.

We’re frustrated. People argue. Just like family. At the end of the day (like last night at Garrison), we pull together to get things done regardless of our disputes.

Enjoy those several members who just joined you in SF. As soon as it gets tough for you guys, the’ll bail on you too. Maybe it’s just my disgust showing, but I have absolutely NO regard for fairweather friends that are essentially stabbing their own brothers and sisters in the back by joining the “enemy”.

I’m just one guy, but FWIW, I will NOT leave Eredon Terrace.

Ah tier 8 is being destroyed, sad to see that almost no one is doing wvw on my server anymore. I hate to say this, but people might even be transferring out or just not playing the game.

Ouch, you got parked in the suggestions forum? This is where they send threads to die.

I can’t grasp what leap of logic would frame this topic as a suggestion, this is a discussion of a problem and an appeal for a solution. What this thread needs is a concise, technical description of the problem and a summary of the solutions that have been proposed.

Nozzie.2067:

A bit of pure speculation, but I wonder if we could consider Anets neglect of tier 8 as a possible indication of there intent to merge servers in the near future. They may not feel a need to balance the tier if they intend on doing away with it.

That is my thought…discussed it last night….They could likely merge SF and ET or FC and ET. ET being (from memory at my last server transfer) smallest server.

Seems like this thread got moved out of sight and hidden in a dusty room.
I haven’t seen a lot of regulars in wvw lately. Not sure if they are taking a break or moved servers ( which would make the problem even worse ). But honestly, I can’t blame them after month and month of lopsided match-ups and no visible effort to balance population

The Glicko math used for anybody interested. I copied the message here from the forum a while a go in case I get the urge to punch in some numbers.

I think it was from Habib Loew but I’m not certain.

Hi Folks,

We’re trying out a new format for the world rankings that includes more data about how the rankings and ratings changed as a result of the last matchup.

Deviation and Volitility are used by the Glicko 2 rating system (http://www.glicko.net/glicko.html). They’re not absolutely necessary for understanding the ratings but I know there are some folks out there who will like to have them.

Enjoy!

Update:

Details have been requested so here’s the rest of what you need to understand how we’re using Glicko 2. These are fairly specific details so feel free to ignore them if you don’t get excited by math

Assume the shards are sA, sB, and sC. In order to handle a 3 way battle we treat each match as having two battles for each shard. So when calculating the new rating for sA the two battles are sA vs. sB and sA vs. sC. Likewise for sB and sC. Naturally, we do all the calculations before updating any of the data.

We use a Tau of 0.6 and a k of 1.0

In standard Glicko 2 scores are represented as 0.0 for a loss, 0.5 for a draw, and 1.0 for a win. We use a slightly modified version that takes into account score differential. I’ll explain how using the sA vs. sB battle as an example. To calculate the glicko score for sA in the sA vs. sB matchup we do the following:

sAPercent = sAScore / (sAScore + sBScore)
sAGlickoScore = (sin((sAPercent – 0.5) * Pi) + 1) * 0.5

where sAScore and sBScore are the raw scores from the end of the match.

That last transform is easiest to visualize as a graph . Other than that it’s all standard Glicko 2.

Have fun doing the math!

Shademehr.1397:

FilthyRat.4652:

And be truthful about the real situation on your servers please with all the infighting, guilds not working together, and the way people act in map chat. i have talked to several member that came to our server in the week alone.

If people are paying to get out of there and come with awful stories about certain servers then it seems like you need to do some internal work and and start working together.

We’re frustrated. People argue. Just like family. At the end of the day (like last night at Garrison), we pull together to get things done regardless of our disputes.

Enjoy those several members who just joined you in SF. As soon as it gets tough for you guys, the’ll bail on you too. Maybe it’s just my disgust showing, but I have absolutely NO regard for fairweather friends that are essentially stabbing their own brothers and sisters in the back by joining the “enemy”.

I’m just one guy, but FWIW, I will NOT leave Eredon Terrace.

1. Its just a game bro, take off the braveheart facepaint and simmer down.
2. For the record I am one of these “fairweather friends” you mentioned, I left ET for SF. But that had nothing to do with winning or losing. It had to do with things like: map completion, thinking SF was going to move out of the T8th circle of WvW hell, getting a different match up sometime this year, and MOST importantly moving to a server where the participation in WvW only fluctuates slightly.
3. If SF does escape the T8 death grip, and we start getting wiped and people start quitting WvW (Like they did in ET), I will likely leave. I can excuse losing, I cannot deal with people who wont even try. THAT is what happened to ET, its no mystery, every Friday night its a real fight for SF, but that doesn’t sustain. The only reason it doesn’t is because of lack of effort, IE: showing up and representing your server…
3. The arguing in ET was terrible, but the thing that was way worse is when it went all quiet…I was logging into EB at 4-8pm (EST) and there were literally 5-6 people on for ET…
4. Finally, people really, I mean really….Do not act like your server is some kind of glorious bastion that you must defend with your life…We all paid money for this game, if your server sucks leave, I did…Twice…I still have friends on ET, we run dungeons, see each other on the battlefield…But I wouldn’t ever go back, doesn’t make me a coward or a backstabber….Just makes me someone who wants to enjoy a game I paid RL money for and spend RL time playing….I am not going to sit and have a miserable WvW experience for some falsely perceived notion of “server loyalty”.

As SoggyFrog pointed out, this sub-forum increases the challenge of keeping this thread alive, but we cannot let that stop us! Also, would anyone else be willing to follow through with SoggyFrog’s idea? “Concise” is not my forte.

I’m not sure if I’m amused or saddened by the thread’s move to the Suggestions Sub-forum. I’m amused because it means someone read it and realized (hopefully) that we are trying to discuss ways of fixing things, and it means they’ve decided we’re being nice enough in here that they’ll allow us to continue seeing the light of day. However, this move does complicate things somewhat.

Keeping a thread bumped in the Suggestions Sub-forum is going to be a pain in the posterior. It has everybody able to come here, not just the WvW crowd, which means we’ll have many more threads to compete with for space on the front page. Granted, most threads also only get close to 500 thread views before they sail off into the distance, but the shear volume of new threads created is going to be a virtual quicksand if I ever saw one.

To anyone who is reading this and cares at all for what this thread is about, please, try to get everyone you can to come on here and keep it bumped with civil discussion and debate. Many people who could care about this thread will never find it in this sub-forum, since many avoid this place on principle. Yes, there are a lot of really good suggestions in this place, but many of them also amount to “Please add 10GB of data to the game tomorrow. Kthx by.” I’m not sure about most people, but I seem to come very close to developing headaches whenever I browse this place for too long.

Also, SniffyCube, if you’re reading this, I have a minor favour to ask. Is it possible to change the thread title after ANet has manually set it to what it is? The current title works wonders in the WvW Sub-forum, but half of the people who come here would be the PvE only crowd and have no idea what “tier 8 ratings” is talking about. Is there any way the title could be changed to something along the lines of “Request: A Fix For the Bottom Tier Ratings In WvW”?

Cosmic.6047:

//Snip! ’Cause character limits suck//

//Facepalm//

Why couldn’t I find that when I went searching for it? Thank you! I couldn’t figure out what equation they used to transform the scores for the life of me. I suspect you have given me a play thing for the next couple hours.

+1

King Amadaeus.8619:

Nozzie.2067:

A bit of pure speculation, but I wonder if we could consider Anets neglect of tier 8 as a possible indication of there intent to merge servers in the near future. They may not feel a need to balance the tier if they intend on doing away with it.

That is my thought…discussed it last night….They could likely merge SF and ET or FC and ET. ET being (from memory at my last server transfer) smallest server.

They would need to do more than merging 2 servers. You need a total number of servers which you can divide by 3 to fill up all tiers. That would mean to remove T8 and distribute this population to other servers.
But usually merging servers is a bad thing to do because it implies the beginning of the end. WvW needs some TLC and if they are not able to get the population balanced than at least there should be an incentive for the people left to continue playing it. For many it is just collecting huge repair bills. The drops for the most are laughable ( at least for me ) and upgrades / siege blueprints are another money sink.

Takerukun.8924:

Cosmic.6047:

//Facepalm//

Why couldn’t I find that when I went searching for it? Thank you! I couldn’t figure out what equation they used to transform the scores for the life of me. I suspect you have given me a play thing for the next couple hours.

+1

Very welcome, I hope you have fun with it. Let me know of your findings.
It was a post from Habib Loew and I found the link again.

Here is the original

Cosmic.6047:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Nozzie.2067:

A bit of pure speculation, but I wonder if we could consider Anets neglect of tier 8 as a possible indication of there intent to merge servers in the near future. They may not feel a need to balance the tier if they intend on doing away with it.

That is my thought…discussed it last night….They could likely merge SF and ET or FC and ET. ET being (from memory at my last server transfer) smallest server.

They would need to do more than merging 2 servers. You need a total number of servers which you can divide by 3 to fill up all tiers. That would mean to remove T8 and distribute this population to other servers.
But usually merging servers is a bad thing to do because it implies the beginning of the end. WvW needs some TLC and if they are not able to get the population balanced than at least there should be an incentive for the people left to continue playing it. For many it is just collecting huge repair bills. The drops for the most are laughable ( at least for me ) and upgrades / siege blueprints are another money sink.

That is a valid point, things can be done though I would think there are other servers “stuck” that might could do with a merge as well…In the end its not a perfect plan, was just really saying that I could see ANET trying something like that.

And then we got moved to where all threads go to die, nice!

Ynot.8397:

And then we got moved to where all threads go to die, nice!

The irritating thread graveyard

I think there’s a higher chance of a Dev seeing this thread in the Suggestion subforum. The thread was already in the WvW forum for a week or 2 and that got us no where.

Sad thing is I really enjoy wvw. Till i leave spwan point lol.
Oh since we’re in suggestion forum now, suggestion. Fix the ranking system many people have voiced different approaches,choose the best one.

Nozzie.2067:

A bit of pure speculation, but I wonder if we could consider Anets neglect of tier 8 as a possible indication of there intent to merge servers in the near future. They may not feel a need to balance the tier if they intend on doing away with it.

You realize how many servers would be impacted, right? You would have to combine t7 with t8 and turn 6 servers into 3. That’s a lot of servers, especially in light of Anet’s sales and recent records of concurrent players.

The game is still selling briskly and player activity is still growing. Anet has an economic system in place for transfers to prefer going to lesser populated servers, but perhaps they could do more to steer new players towards the lower tiers.

Don’t think transfers will solve the problem. The real problem is he artificial ratings that T8 have been given which are at least 300 points off.

Yeah but they messed up the transfers because it is based on world population, not wvw rank.

King Amadaeus.8619:

1. Its just a game bro, take off the braveheart facepaint and simmer down.

I look good in facepaint. Sowhat? I was literally standing in front of my keyboard with my Claymore and kilt (sans underpants ofc) while I was typing my response so I’m very proud of you for being able to ascertain that I was ready for war.

King Amadaeus.8619:

2. For the record I am one of these “fairweather friends” you mentioned, I left ET for SF. But that had nothing to do with winning or losing. It had to do with things like: map completion, thinking SF was going to move out of the T8th circle of WvW hell, getting a different match up sometime this year, and MOST importantly moving to a server where the participation in WvW only fluctuates slightly.

See my earlier post about my impressions.

King Amadaeus.8619:

3. If SF does escape the T8 death grip, and we start getting wiped and people start quitting WvW (Like they did in ET), I will likely leave. I can excuse losing, I cannot deal with people who wont even try. THAT is what happened to ET, its no mystery, every Friday night its a real fight for SF, but that doesn’t sustain. The only reason it doesn’t is because of lack of effort, IE: showing up and representing your server…

The group of awesome people that I fought beside last night while defending our BL and during our excursions to EB say otherwise. We still have plenty of life left in us, despite our predicament. Maybe our numbers don’t allow us to commit full (plus) time but that doesn’t mean we won’t give you (or anyone) a run for their money when we can.

3. The arguing in ET was terrible, but the thing that was way worse is when it went all quiet…I was logging into EB at 4-8pm (EST) and there were literally 5-6 people on for ET…

Each night that I’m in WvW, I see new people asking about how things work, looking for pointers, sometimes just asking how to leave WvW. New Commanders, while not popping up nearly as frequently, still appear as well. I’m not talking about people who just wanted to burn 100g. I’m talking about people who show an active interest and participate in making ET better. I’ve seen the arguing as well, but it is the exception and not the rule. I know there are many reasons for it, but I’d like to cling to the fact that we all want to see our server succeed (or at least hold our ground) so despite our differences (and sometimes bickering), we still have a common goal.

King Amadaeus.8619:

4. Finally, people really, I mean really….Do not act like your server is some kind of glorious bastion that you must defend with your life…We all paid money for this game, if your server sucks leave, I did…Twice…I still have friends on ET, we run dungeons, see each other on the battlefield…But I wouldn’t ever go back, doesn’t make me a coward or a backstabber….Just makes me someone who wants to enjoy a game I paid RL money for and spend RL time playing….I am not going to sit and have a miserable WvW experience for some falsely perceived notion of “server loyalty”.

But you defend it with your “life” each and every time you play WvW! If my server sucks, then I make more of an effort to turn it around. When the going gets tough, I don’t get going. I’m not going to pretend to know what kind of effort you put into making not one, not two, but three servers better in WvW but I find lightning rarely strikes twice (thrice?)

Finally, with all that being said, enjoyment is relative I guess. You’ve seen what I enjoy. I’ve seen what you enjoy. To each his own. See you on the field and good day to you sir. [/salute]

Not really about server loyalty… people like the pve communities and have a lot of friends they wvw with on a daily basis… if we were allowed to move and could afford to pay for all our friends that we wvw with we would… because I am feeling like t8 is neglected by the current wvw team. However, we won’t abandon people we’ve been playing with and have made friends with, you know?

I don’t see why the numbers just aren’t looked at and we have to go through this whole dance… many people would be satisfied with at least one red tag post about how they are looking into it.

Hey guys,
I’ve been pretty vocal about this issue since it started over a month ago and I haven’t seen any improvements yet. I did receive one response from ANet which no doubt resulted in the Rankings Reset; however, this obviously failed. I’ve been on Ferguson’s Crossing since the headstart and I’ve always felt that I have some sort of loyalty to this server. I really never gave up during the Devona stomping followed by the Kaineng stomping followed by the Sorrow’s stomping.. up until now at least. With much neglect from ANet recently I have almost completely given up on my favorite part of the game, WvW. Now unfortunately I just can’t take it anymore, with this kittenty matchup which seems like it will never end despite the entire server completely giving in to just let Sorrows move up. I honestly love Fergs and I’ve been in world vs world there almost every day since launch.. I’m sure a lot of the people there care about me too (at least the ones who played more than 2 weeks ago before I just couldn’t find the will power to do it). The worst part is is how much I’ve bashed on guilds for leaving us.. and at that I have to say I’m finally gonna leave this tier in hope of something better. The remainder of TTA is likely to come as well.. to Borlis Pass in Tier6, currently the most even matchup in the game.
I really wish it didn’t have to come to this; I really didn’t want to leave, but ANet gave me no choice. I don’t know why they had to just sit and watch this happen..

Also for reference.. the thread I brought up about this about 40 days ago:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Tier-8-Points-Extremely-Scewed/first

It’s real sad to see you go Darek. You’ve been fighting for FC a whole lot on this forum. You’ll be missed together with each and every person who leaves due to this dire situation. With people leaving it certainly seems that FC will take over (is taking over) the red spot on T8 so at least I’ll get my map completion there. But I’m afraid that people transferring will leave us in a spot now where FC will never be green and so I will never get my map completion unless I too transfer… So does this mean that systematically people will transfer away from FC with the realization that they will never attain 100% map completion?? Even people who don’t care at all about WvW will sooner or later want map completion for their legendary. 1year, 5 years?? just a matter of time before the only population on FC are the NPCs.

Maybe this is the conspiracy theorist in me, but is there any chance Anet is intentionally letting this play out as it is currently so that we’ll fork out the cash to switch servers? What if they’ve leared that they have too many servers (or can increase capacity on the ones they have) and are looking for ways to consolidate. Maybe they figured they would make as much money as they could from the disgruntled people transferring before they offered a reduced-price or free option?

A company wouldn’t do something like this would they? Would they?

Here’s another thought about how this ranking system works: If SF is consitantly ruling T8 and the system seems to indicate that since it’s “as expected”, there is little possibility of them moving up a tier, what would happen if ET and FC suddenly starting making more points? Is it possible, as the system stands now, to do a whole lot better but still not “win” the points race, and still move up in rankings?

For example, say the score over the last several weeks was: SF (450,000), FC (75,000), ET (65,000) but suddenly, and for the next couple of weeks, the scores starting looking like SF (350,000), FC (190,000), ET (50,000). Because FC showed a significant points improvement, would they be “better than expected” and be able to move up to another tier?

I just know one thing. We’ve lost a crapton of good Guilds and players from Ferg. (And from ET as well, tbh.). And it’s just frigging SAD. I haven’t been in FC as long as Darek, but between him/TTA and ENVY like a month ago, there went a good chunk of our server’s MOST dedicated WvWers. Worst part is, I can’t really blame any of ‘em.
There’s only so long anyone can keep getting crap shovelled down their throat before something has to give. Good luck in Borlis, man. Give ’em Hell.

Shademehr.1397:

Here’s another thought about how this ranking system works: If SF is consitantly ruling T8 and the system seems to indicate that since it’s “as expected”, there is little possibility of them moving up a tier, what would happen if ET and FC suddenly starting making more points? Is it possible, as the system stands now, to do a whole lot better but still not “win” the points race, and still move up in rankings?

For example, say the score over the last several weeks was: SF (450,000), FC (75,000), ET (65,000) but suddenly, and for the next couple of weeks, the scores starting looking like SF (350,000), FC (190,000), ET (50,000). Because FC showed a significant points improvement, would they be “better than expected” and be able to move up to another tier?

Short answer? No.

Long answer: While the sudden increase in points WOULD give FC a ratings boost, the closer they get to SF in ratings, the better and better they would need to do in order to continue gaining rating. By the point they’re say, within 50 rating of SF, they would need to actually win each week to continue gaining points in a meaningful way. And while FC is gaining rating, SF would be losing it, which means this crossover would occur somewhere around 800 rating. FC would then need to pull weeks similarly to how SF has been lately for a few months in order to catch up to the lowest rating in T7, 1025.

A single sudden performance increase on SF would certainly give them a big jump in points, but by no means the 400 rating that they would need to move up a tier. It wouldn’t even be the ~200 rating necessary to replace FC at the top of T8.