PvE thieves need 3s revealed back

PvE thieves need 3s revealed back

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Posted by: randomfightfan.4091

randomfightfan.4091

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Feedback-from-the-Patch-Note/first#post1816351

many great points in there

our timing is crap, stealth rotation is clumsy and wonky, damage got nerfed, survivability got nerfed, less boons, less condi removal, less ini, less dps, less everything from a supposedly small nerf. From the outside 1s doesn’t seem like much but for anyone who actually plays the class, they know just how much this messes with our hard coded timing and damage rotation.

By far the worst part of this nerf is that it wasn’t even intended for pve thieves yet they’re the only ones who got hit. In WvW and PvP, you aren’t using the aa chain as a source of timing and the odds of being able to get the cnd off every time after 3s is so minuscule that most good players don’t even worry about trying to chain their invises prefect (if they’re using their stealth attacks), instead they worry about keeping the pressure on (or disengaging) with clever use of their evades and such.

Check out my page for some good thiefisms :)
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid

PvE thieves need 3s revealed back

in Suggestions

Posted by: Olba.5376

Olba.5376

our timing is crap, stealth rotation is clumsy and wonky, damage got nerfed, survivability got nerfed, less boons, less condi removal, less ini, less dps, less everything from a supposedly small nerf. From the outside 1s doesn’t seem like much but for anyone who actually plays the class, they know just how much this messes with our hard coded timing and damage rotation.

Have you seen a good S/D thief do their Tactical Strike rotation? That kitten was insane.

Right now, if you attack, your rotation is going to be 3-4s stealth with 4s Revealed. So that means 2 conditions removed every 7-8s, or 1 condition every 3.5-4s Before, it was 3-4s stealth with 3s Revealed, for 2 conditions every 6-7 seconds, or 1 condition every 3-3.5s. And let’s face it, the latter is nuts, considering that we have things like Signet of Resolve or Signet of Renewal.

For our condition removal, it’s not that the stealth removal is bad, it’s that our other options are far worse. And of course there’s the fact that stealth enables people to run with lower health, which means the condition damage that you’re forced to take is much more significant.

By far the worst part of this nerf is that it wasn’t even intended for pve thieves yet they’re the only ones who got hit. In WvW and PvP, you aren’t using the aa chain as a source of timing and the odds of being able to get the cnd off every time after 3s is so minuscule that most good players don’t even worry about trying to chain their invises prefect (if they’re using their stealth attacks), instead they worry about keeping the pressure on (or disengaging) with clever use of their evades and such.

Wait a second. You’re complaining that you have to readjust your stealth timing? That’s ridiculous. Stop complaining, you should be freaking ecstatic that you even have a mechanic as awesome as fully traited stealth, giving you freaking renegeration and condition removal like a boss.

And before you ad hominem me about not playing a Thief: I got a level 80 D/D thief rocking full Soldier exotic armor and trinkets. I also play a shout warrior.

PvE thieves need 3s revealed back

in Suggestions

Posted by: randomfightfan.4091

randomfightfan.4091

If this change wasn’t added in so late into the game then I’d agree. As it is though, they should have kept it as is. S/d is a ton of cc but it’s sooooo boring and it’s only a daze. You can still move around and dodge. It also has no burst (don’t talk about flanking strike, easiest thing to avoid ever).

The problem with using those numbers for condi removal and such is that you’re assuming the thief will have the initiative to go invis every time they’re able. That won’t be the case. If you’re forcing that then you most likely won’t have the initiative to have an extra dodge with db or the extra dps with heart seeker. To get the kind of regen and such that you’re talking about, the thief would need to go 30 into sa with ini on stealth, condi removal on stealth, and regen on stealth. Even with all that, we aren’t getting any more than what a single guard or ele can do but they can do it for an entire team. Sure we have stealth, but both those professions have a wide variety of invulnerabilities to fall back to (not to mention being inherently tankier already).

Now to put this into a comparative point of view. Just roll with this example please because thief and guard play so differently the only way I can explain it well is with breaking what you’d consider basic guard gameplay.

Lets say there’s a nerf to how the symbols work with guard and their finishers. You can now either have the dps of laying down the symbols and having them have 100% uptime (pve situation) but you can no longer use your leap finisher to give you protection or ret (whichever it gives). If you want the boon you’ll have to stop attacking before the 3rd swing finishes and leap after the previous symbol goes away. NOW you can do another rotation but if you want the boons again you’re going to have to sacrifice one of the symbols and have to wait through the awful aa rotation again before you can lay down another symbol.

Sounds wierd, sounds clunky, sounds like it just wouldn’t work. THAT is how it now feels to use d/d in pve right now. And unlike other classes, we can’t use other weapon utilities while we wait for the debuff to wear off. We need to conserve our ini and even if we didn’t, what would we use?? Dancing dagger? Does less dmgthan double strike. Death blossom? Even with 1/4s evade, if you’re using it for anything but the evade on a damage build, you’re just wasting precious ini. It’s the other 3 skills that you need to focus on.

Lastly, I believe that you do have an 80 thief, I believe that you’re probably a better thief than most considering you skill as a player. The problem though is that you’re not going to notice this nerf unless you main thief and use it all the time. I play the class b/c I love the feel of it. This nerf just messed with the feel of the class. It messed with how they play and how their skills combo together. Someone who doesn’t play their thief as their main most likely won’t have the stealth timer engrained and trained so when they pick up the class, they won’t notice a difference. When you’re in pve, you want to have a smooth feel without losing your dps.

Before with a perfect smoke screen hs combo, I could get max 3 stealth>bs from it. Now, it doesn’t matter how hard I try, it will only ever be 2. With pistol 5, I could get 2 stealth>bs from that combo. Now it’s only 1 no matter how well you play.

Thief is all about maxing your potential with fields and finishers. Messing with how the class reacts with their most important field is quite rude.

Check out my page for some good thiefisms :)
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid