Guild Wars 2

TLDR THERE IS NONE READ IT OR GET OUT
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Guy1: I want trinity gameplay

Guy2: No, gw2 isnt supposed to be like WoW

Guy1: But I get bored sitting around doing nothing in an instance spamming the same buttons over and over doing damage to a stupid boss that just has a bunch of HP and no skill required in beating/not having a sense of self improvement/accomplishment

Guy2: Yeah well I bought this game for that reason

Guy1: Yeah well that’s why you’re bad at video games

FLAME WAR BEGINS
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Now…..We’ve all seen threads like this. I’ve come to propose a solution to Arena Net (for the most part) and get the opinions of the people on the forums. I do believe this is a completely “do-able” idea, and is not out of the realm of possibilities. Matter a fact, I’d rather Anet put all development on hold if they can focus on developing this.

So…for some of us (this is my opinion, everyone can have their own) we all know how PvE in this game can be kind of boring and stale because everything seems the same…and each boss seems to just be a never ending pool of health, everyone is DPS and just spams buttons, etc….. Well I’ve come up with a solution.

Game/Dungeon type modes. Yes….It is that simple. For instance, in WoW if i remember correctly (haven’t played in a hot minute) the party could set a dungeon to heroic or whatever…but since this is gw2 we would be choosing between “Trinity, and Non-Trinity” as the game type.

This would mean: It would appeal to players who like healing, and playing different roles.

AND it would allow: People who HATE WoW type games to keep playing their mindless spam 12345 at a boss that doesn’t move to keep playing their mode.

At the end of the day, if this were to be implemented we could see what people really like better because you could look at the “LFG” chat in map chat and see what the majority of people are running (trinity or non trinity)

This solution will please both sides of the spectrum…because lets just admit it… if this game was like WoW…..omg, that’d be like WoW on steroids and I’d never leave my computer…and I’d actually want to spend money in their cash shop because I get that sense of “I’m not leaving this game anytime soon”…..Right now the future of this game is in shambles, Everyone I know has quit, or just sits in Lions Arch doing nothing all day because lets face it, Most people don’t play video games to grind professions and level cooking if you get what I’m saying.

Thanks for reading, this is a serious suggestion and needs to be talked about because it could seriously bring the community back together and more importantly more people BACK to the game…resulting in a better economy, and what not.

You’re forgetting one thing… In a way, the trinity already exists, but it exists as it should, not like how it does in WoW and other MMOs.

What I’m trying to say is that you, regardless of your class, can give yourself gears, skills and traits to either be supportive (“cleric/healer” class), defensive (“tank”) or offensive (“DPS”). You aren’t pigeonholed into your roles from your character’s conception: you can literally mold them into what role you want them to play and then change it if you decide you want to. That sort of flexibility is great.

The flexibility varies from class to class (e.g. I don’t think a support-oriented thief or a defense-oriented necro are very feasible, for example), but in most cases you have options.

I think it’s a bit too much work to have the two systems, all those numbers, coding…running concurrently. You’re asking them to design two completely separate systems for how character attributes, skills, classes, etc work.

While i am a firm believer that this game needs more defined roles, tangible group dynamics, more engaging and deep combat mechanics based on player skill (read: not dodging with twitch to avoid getting one shotted while pounding a way on a boss that has been given fake difficulty by having a health bar in scientific notation), i don’t think this is the answer.

I would like to see them institute the Monk class back into the game. I would like to see the trait system as well as the weapon-tied skill system completely overhauled. For what reason? I believe it would be great to see each trait line play a more defining role in customizing a character. For example, you take one trait line for a minion master, one to be a dark well healer (one that can actually directly heal), one to be a burst factory, etc…then they need to add more skills and elites to compliment these solid build choices, a way for players to communicate setups and skillbars at the touch of a button. ArenaNet needs to put more resources into their combat system.

Basically, what i’d like to see is a few classes having the ability to spec into full on, defined roles (that certain classes won’t have access to i.e you can’t have a direct warrior healer, only a support) so that you don’t need a monk healer, you could have a Necro healer, an Engineer healer a Warrior supporter, a Mesmer DPS, but rather than those roles being minimally effective, they were well defined and gratifying because their effort and role meant something to the team rather than giving marginal heals out only to get wiped away due to the arbitrary, ridiculous numbers on health, damage, etc in this game.

Either way, i find the social integrity of this game to be extremely lacking and far too casual to retain a player base of any size. sPvP population is diminishing, no point in WvWing, FoTM siphoning players from the other parts of the game, and a really terribly designed loot system…all come together with these combat system and skill design issues to really make this game age fast. I hope to goodness that this January, February patch isn’t just hot air and addresses some real problems.

The trinity is and always will be a bad idea. There are only 2 skilled roles (tank and healer) and 3 people getting carried along with them. Every game that tries to implement a fourth support role just ends up never using it, since the Trinity is always superior to it.

It gets old only playing tank and healer if you actually want some semblance of a challenge (not that either role particularly provides one in most Trinity games, except maybe TERA). It’s nice finally having EVERY player in a party be challenged. It’s also fun to watch the people who are used to being carried in other MMOs and considered themselves “skilled” get steamrolled and then QQ about how “bad” the current system is.

My opinion:

What is it about WoW that makes you NOT play it but play GW2 instead?

Please think about it for a moment. Have you figured it out? If so, I think it would be a much effective way if you suggest that on the WoW forums instead of the other way around here.

It seems that what you are looking for is “WoW on steriods”. It is much easier to turn WoW into “WoW on steriods”, than GW2 into “WoW on steroids”.

Or just go play another game. Really if Dungeon Mode is that important to you, DDO is better. It’s a whole game built on dungeon mode and they have like 5 different difficulties. You can solo, trinity or not trinity. And it has a LFG tool. Or perhaps wait for Neverwinter.

What you are suggesting though is a lot of change, most notably having a whole set of other skills that would allow the trinity roles and expectations other games have. I would say the safest thing is to accept what has been given to us. If it’s that big a deal that it doesn’t do what you have to have it do, then move to another game. I’m not against what you write, but what’s the chances? Like .000000001%.

projectcedric.6951:

My opinion:

What is it about WoW that makes you NOT play it but play GW2 instead?

Please think about it for a moment. Have you figured it out? If so, I think it would be a much effective way if you suggest that on the WoW forums instead of the other way around here.

It seems that what you are looking for is “WoW on steriods”. It is much easier to turn WoW into “WoW on steriods”, than GW2 into “WoW on steroids”.

It WAS easier. Since Nov 15th they’ve been working diligently to do just that. We really just need the trinity (which would only require a few threat buffs on a couple of warrior skills) and raids the game will be set. Endgame already revolves around instance grinding now.

If the only thing between them and this suggestion is how difficult it would be for this game to emulate WoW, they have alleviated much of that difficulty in the past 2 months.

Tolmos.8395:

The trinity is and always will be a bad idea. There are only 2 skilled roles (tank and healer) and 3 people getting carried along with them. Every game that tries to implement a fourth support role just ends up never using it, since the Trinity is always superior to it.

It gets old only playing tank and healer if you actually want some semblance of a challenge (not that either role particularly provides one in most Trinity games, except maybe TERA). It’s nice finally having EVERY player in a party be challenged. It’s also fun to watch the people who are used to being carried in other MMOs and considered themselves “skilled” get steamrolled and then QQ about how “bad” the current system is.

And with ANet showing what they had learned through fractals, I foresee that great dungeons will be made without the blasted trinity. As what people had said previously, there are other games out there with that system.

Johnson.4867:

Guy1: But I get bored sitting around doing nothing in an instance spamming the same buttons over and over

This explains every (EVERY) video game in existence….. soooo, yeaahh. Silly argument made by person, that might not like the game for some other reason. Possibly, but not limited to, I’ve already invested lots and lots of time into another fantasy game and I’m unable to leave it or do another fantasy game. orrrrr, I gots special loot in a game I already play, in my inventory already, and your new game with it’s loot is not as special as what I have looted already. hehhehhehheh I like this speculative one most of all: I like games that don’t allow me to dodge actively with reflexes, and I want my character to stand still while I use one hand to press 4 buttons and eat cookie dough with the other hand. /evilsmile

Horrible Idea.

This fundamentally breaks from the design philosophy we all bought into.

You too bought this game knowing full well it had no trinity. Now you come here trying to alter the very fundamentals of the game everyone else enjoys to try and revert mmo design progress back several years? And why? Because you don’t like it?

If your not happy with the current game design there are several other mmo’s for you to go play. Don’t try to ruin this one for everyone else who acknowledged the stated design philosophy and bought into it for that very reason and enjoy it the way it is.

LOTRO uses a 4th support role very effectively and the trinity works there incredibly well. But it also deisgns excellent instances to compliment it.

Should the trinity be re-formed here? No, in my opinion. There are plenty of good games that use trinity for those who want it. That’s the option to please the other spectrum.

GW2 is trying things out, it hasn’t perfected it yet, but as many of us keep saying, it is just too early to call it a failure or doom its future. There’s a long way to go before it can get things right. I also echo the calls for a larger skill pool and may be that is all that is needed.

It’s good the trinity issue has caused debate mind, I’m sure the devs had hoped that would be the case. They were unlikely to perfect it from launch and they are undoubtably relying on continued feedback/constructive criticism from the community

Tolmos.8395:

projectcedric.6951:

My opinion:

What is it about WoW that makes you NOT play it but play GW2 instead?

Please think about it for a moment. Have you figured it out? If so, I think it would be a much effective way if you suggest that on the WoW forums instead of the other way around here.

It seems that what you are looking for is “WoW on steriods”. It is much easier to turn WoW into “WoW on steriods”, than GW2 into “WoW on steroids”.

It WAS easier. Since Nov 15th they’ve been working diligently to do just that. We really just need the trinity (which would only require a few threat buffs on a couple of warrior skills) and raids the game will be set. Endgame already revolves around instance grinding now.

If the only thing between them and this suggestion is how difficult it would be for this game to emulate WoW, they have alleviated much of that difficulty in the past 2 months.

You may be right about the last two months. But I disagree with you on the seeming simpleness of re-designing the current battle system into this so-called trinity roles.

I’m sure you are not completely unfamiliar with game development. Almost always the case, if there is combat involved, the combat system is one of the very first to be designed. Almost everything else is designed after and around the combat system.

It’s not just a matter of changing the skills to specialize. Technically, they can do that. But if the change is as drastic as from the current to trinity, the whole game is off. 100% sure. I estimate another 6-10 months of re-balancing, maybe more. It wont be surprising if crafting, dungeons, wvw and pvp systems all have to be redesigned too.

Dinny.5310:

You’re forgetting one thing… In a way, the trinity already exists, but it exists as it should, not like how it does in WoW and other MMOs.

What I’m trying to say is that you, regardless of your class, can give yourself gears, skills and traits to either be supportive (“cleric/healer” class), defensive (“tank”) or offensive (“DPS”). You aren’t pigeonholed into your roles from your character’s conception: you can literally mold them into what role you want them to play and then change it if you decide you want to. That sort of flexibility is great.

The flexibility varies from class to class (e.g. I don’t think a support-oriented thief or a defense-oriented necro are very feasible, for example), but in most cases you have options.

The first problem is that none of the roles except DPS are defined well. There is no pure healing role. There is no pure tanking role. There is no pure support role. It would be nice if I as a player could mix my roles (ex. I want to be mostly a healer, but be able to buff my allies as well). Right now I can only be DPS with a tiny bit of healing or support. It would be great if the old trinity system was there, but any class had access to all the roles and could switch between them with ease.

The second problem is that roles are not forced by the encounter. Sure, you can create a complex strategy, fine-tune your team’s skills, traits, etc. for a particular encounter… Or, you can just rush in. Same end result, which makes the strategic approach look overdone and unnecessary, kind of like a Rube Goldberg machine. Bosses need more complex mechanics instead of hard-hitting mega-health-bars they are right now. This is something that the best trinity MMOs (WoW, Rift, LotRO) get right and GW2 doesnt.

Rehk.6574:

Horrible Idea.

This fundamentally breaks from the design philosophy we all bought into.

You too bought this game knowing full well it had no trinity. Now you come here trying to alter the very fundamentals of the game everyone else enjoys to try and revert mmo design progress back several years? And why? Because you don’t like it?

If your not happy with the current game design there are several other mmo’s for you to go play. Don’t try to ruin this one for everyone else who acknowledged the stated design philosophy and bought into it for that very reason and enjoy it the way it is.

So does a gear treadmill….hello there, ascended gear!

Every game with trinity that I’ve played has been boring, braindead and skilless – gw2’s system is 100x more better.

Tolmos.8395:

It WAS easier. Since Nov 15th they’ve been working diligently to do just that. We really just need the trinity (which would only require a few threat buffs on a couple of warrior skills) and raids the game will be set. Endgame already revolves around instance grinding now.

If the only thing between them and this suggestion is how difficult it would be for this game to emulate WoW, they have alleviated much of that difficulty in the past 2 months.

1. Disagree on introducing Trinity. If you have good encounter mechanics that encourage teamwork, then you don’t need the Trinity. Making two different systems means encounters have to be balanced around them two different systems. In terms of resources and time, it would make other content suffer.

2) Endgame is based around grinding instances? I’m currently on Fractal level 2, and I haven’t got a single piece of dungeon gear. My endgame primarily revolves around WvW and just playing in the world, liberating waypoints, doing events, exploring the world (my current world completion is almost at 50%) without the aid of icons on the map.

Endgame changes from person to person.

3) While I got nothing against raids, I’d much rather them improve and introduce more meta events into the world to replace raids.

Well, what I was thinking off, more skills, more type of skills also. More healing skills, but also more damage skills etc. Just MORE SKILLS to make up for the non-trinity “issue” .
So you can choose if you want to play like that.

lacrimstein.5603:

The first problem is that none of the roles except DPS are defined well. There is no pure healing role. There is no pure tanking role. There is no pure support role. It would be nice if I as a player could mix my roles (ex. I want to be mostly a healer, but be able to buff my allies as well). Right now I can only be DPS with a tiny bit of healing or support. It would be great if the old trinity system was there, but any class had access to all the roles and could switch between them with ease.

The second problem is that roles are not forced by the encounter. Sure, you can create a complex strategy, fine-tune your team’s skills, traits, etc. for a particular encounter… Or, you can just rush in. Same end result, which makes the strategic approach look overdone and unnecessary, kind of like a Rube Goldberg machine. Bosses need more complex mechanics instead of hard-hitting mega-health-bars they are right now. This is something that the best trinity MMOs (WoW, Rift, LotRO) get right and GW2 doesnt.

In theory, providing the option between trinity roles and dual/triple/no-roles may seem like a noble and workable idea. In reality, peer pressure will most likely drive people towards trinity roles anyway.

If there is an option to specialize in any one role and be very good at that role – in a team play, it is logically better that there are 3 specialized roles that can augment each other and still do their jobs exceptionally, than having 3 multi-roles that are limited as a drawback of their versatility. Therefore, people will generally favor still choosing a trinity role. One because it is simpler to specialize, and two because there is no more need for versatility.

Now -and this is important- it doesn’t mean that the trinity system is therefore better than the no-role system. It just means that you cannot offer both options; doing so is like saying you are having trinity system anyway. The main characterizing quality and advantage of the no-role system is exactly just that: the absence of the capability to specialize in any role. This is both the restriction that is given and the good thing about it.

I agree with your second point.

Tolmos.8395:

The trinity is and always will be a bad idea. There are only 2 skilled roles (tank and healer) and 3 people getting carried along with them. Every game that tries to implement a fourth support role just ends up never using it, since the Trinity is always superior to it.

It gets old only playing tank and healer if you actually want some semblance of a challenge (not that either role particularly provides one in most Trinity games, except maybe TERA). It’s nice finally having EVERY player in a party be challenged. It’s also fun to watch the people who are used to being carried in other MMOs and considered themselves “skilled” get steamrolled and then QQ about how “bad” the current system is.

I disagree. Playing a healer or support is one of my favourite things to do in any game; it was actually a let down to find out that healing was not being carried over from GW1 to GW2. I feel that every aspect of a team is important: without a good tank, your party will take fatal damage; without a good healer, your party won’t be able to sustain the incoming damage; without good DPS, you won’t kill anything (and it puts a lot more pressure on the healer and tank when the target is alive too long). All three aspects are equally important. There is a major difference between a mediocre DPS (which most people are) and a good DPS, of which most people fall in the former. A good DPS requires skill but it’s easier to be passed off as mediocre than it is for a healer or tank.

As far as having a fourth support role goes, GW1 did a very good job with that. They had the Paragon which was a full support profession in terms of PvE content. For example, at one point in the Realm of Torment when Ursan was nerfed, you’d have 2 Monks to heal, 1 Paragon for support and then 5 people to deal damage. To say that games don’t ever achieve a functional support role outside of the established trinity is another false assumption.

Even though the current setup in GW2 is perfectly fine and it works, I would still prefer to have a healing profession.

lothefallen.7081:

I think it’s a bit too much work to have the two systems, all those numbers, coding…running concurrently. You’re asking them to design two completely separate systems for how character attributes, skills, classes, etc work.

While i am a firm believer that this game needs more defined roles, tangible group dynamics, more engaging and deep combat mechanics based on player skill (read: not dodging with twitch to avoid getting one shotted while pounding a way on a boss that has been given fake difficulty by having a health bar in scientific notation), i don’t think this is the answer.

I would like to see them institute the Monk class back into the game. I would like to see the trait system as well as the weapon-tied skill system completely overhauled. For what reason? I believe it would be great to see each trait line play a more defining role in customizing a character. For example, you take one trait line for a minion master, one to be a dark well healer (one that can actually directly heal), one to be a burst factory, etc…then they need to add more skills and elites to compliment these solid build choices, a way for players to communicate setups and skillbars at the touch of a button. ArenaNet needs to put more resources into their combat system.

Basically, what i’d like to see is a few classes having the ability to spec into full on, defined roles (that certain classes won’t have access to i.e you can’t have a direct warrior healer, only a support) so that you don’t need a monk healer, you could have a Necro healer, an Engineer healer a Warrior supporter, a Mesmer DPS, but rather than those roles being minimally effective, they were well defined and gratifying because their effort and role meant something to the team rather than giving marginal heals out only to get wiped away due to the arbitrary, ridiculous numbers on health, damage, etc in this game.

Either way, i find the social integrity of this game to be extremely lacking and far too casual to retain a player base of any size. sPvP population is diminishing, no point in WvWing, FoTM siphoning players from the other parts of the game, and a really terribly designed loot system…all come together with these combat system and skill design issues to really make this game age fast. I hope to goodness that this January, February patch isn’t just hot air and addresses some real problems.

I just can’t put in words how much I agree with all you’ve written here!
GW2 is a really great game in all aspects, and far better imho than all trinity based games, but… but it surprisingly lacks that role abilities. I was hoping I could be more of a support/healer class as a water traited elementalist…. hardly doing much, some buffs, some debuffs etc. If we actually got a revamped trait system that would put MUCH MORE pressure on a specific role affiliated with the trait and more skills (especially elites) to support those traits, every1 could still play the way the do now or make his own ‘trinity class’. Want an all-rounder class? Just make an all-rounder build. Want to focus on taking lots of dmg? Focus on toughness traits + pulling/disabling/aggro skills (they’d obviously need to put more of those in ; ) ) Wanna be healer? Nothing easier… god, this would be a dream world! +1k of k’s of k’s of freaking k’s for this poster idea! ^^

No.

The game requires all players to deal damage, throw out some heals, throw out some support, tank a bit, kite a bit. So while we don’t have the trinity, those roles are fulfilled to a lesser degree by a larger pool of players (ie – 1/5 the heals, but 5x the players doing it). I think the mechanics of the fights need to change, become more dynamic, require more strategy, require more synergy between classes. But the basics of how we as players are involved in combat should remain.

I read the original post until I got to:
“AND it would allow: People who HATE WoW type games to keep playing their mindless spam 12345 at a boss that doesn’t move to keep playing their mode.”

Not interested now, thanks anyways. If you want this ancient dusty trinity that needed to die there are other games to play with that Risen-like system.

The trinity system itself isn’t a bad idea entirely; it’s the trinity system is regurgitated almost exactly the same way in every MMO out in the last like 10 years.

I personally don’t think Gw2 needs a trinity system, but as the trinity is the topic, here are my views on it:

• Healing: the healer portion of the trinity needs to be revamped in any new game coming out. They need to be able to draw aggro and be threatened just as much as any other player (maybe even more so since heals can be so important and very pivotal to a fight in most games). Heals also need to become more strategic in their use and when they are used; not just essentially spammed on a rotation. Heals should be something that aren’t relied upon, but helpful when used; players should have to rely on their own ability to dodge and block incoming attacks more.
• Tanking: remove most if not all abilities dedicated to drawing aggro. Tanks should be more about survival than just drawing pure aggro. Abilities and play style would allow for them to protect allies; run in front of an ally and block an attack for exmaple.
  *DPS is dps lol… just do damage and survive. DPS should have to cover their own kitten and not rely purely on the enemy focusing mainly on the tank, or a healer covering for them all the time.

Should illustrate the direction the trinity should go enough I hope.

As for Gw2, Anet needs to focus more on players developing strategies and adapting to changing variables than roles, gear and such.

For example:

• Divide and Conquer: players should need to find ways to pull enemy groups apart and work their way through more manageable chunks. There needs to be more threat to carelessly attacking an enemy group, in a way that makes players need to go “hmmm… I should work through them this way.” Players should need to study a group for a second before charging in and develop at least some kind of strategy. (For this to work though, spawn rates would need to be worked on; some areas in game are ridiculous, by the time you kill an enemy the timer has reset. Maybe spawn by the group instead of single units? So, that the spawn timer doesn’t start ticking, or just has an extra long period, until after the entire group is killed). At the moment, if you try to “pull” like in Gw1 for instance, you end up with one big group 90% of the time (which makes sense in some scenarios, but there really needs to be a way to allow players to work smartly through enemy forces than have to just brute force it; maybe even spice it up by having some “traps” setup throughout areas players can run back to that insta kill, or do a large amount of damage to, enemies for ambushing and stuff; player ability traps are just condition AOEs, trapping in Gw1 was so much more fun…).
• Patrols and intersecting paths: Players should have to worry about enemies getting “reinforcements” and be able to visually see and time an attack. You see a group of enemies you want to attack, but know that there is a group on a path that comes through this area too; you either have to then attack the “patrol” or wait until you can attack without them joining in. (Very few pathed “patrols” would actually be needed in areas, most of the time a patrol could easily be used to intersect with many groups as they move along).
• Advanced Zerg Detection and Scaling: Mostly for larger events, but scaling based on the number of players in the greater area of the event and then upscaling the event, by adding in multiple sub events branching out almost simultaneously, to fracture a potential zerg, is definitely needed.

Thinking along these lines would do a lot more for Gw2 than doing anything major to the base combat system.

This game doesn’t need trinity. What it needs is more challenge and less spam. When I say spam I don’t necessarily mean the buttons people push to do their moves especially those who think they should use only one type of weapon combo and just stand there. I mean the type of spam that the bosses do and I also mean the instakills bosses tend to do. One doesn’t need to be instantly downed to feel the danger of fighting a boss. Even the Champions have this instakill thing out in the open world, they need to change that seriously. I don’t mind dungeons but I am one of those people who hated having to learn every little thing about a dungeon before running them or being kicked from the group. WoW is rife with people who think that’s all you should do all day is learn about how the raids and dungeons function before every fight. I do however think that these should be a little more challenging in the way of adding puzzles, adding more complex traps, making the bosses do something like teleport away from the party to summon in help, and then teleport back to continue the fight or putting a debuff on one of the players that could cause massive damage to everyone else while doing a DoT to the player that he must then survive before running back in. Those kinds of things would actually break the monotony.

The other concern i have is how focused people seem to be on dungeons suddenly in this game. This was never meant to be a dungeon centric game at all. Originally and yes i still have some of the links to those interviews, Anet devs doing the interviews about why dungeons are in their view more of an afterthought compared to open world, it was to save money. They designed the open world meta events and DE system with adding new content monthly in mind.

I kind of wonder what happened to that. Where are all the metas? Even small ones.

So if they removed the zerg by making boss fights more fun, they added more complex traps like puzzles, they made the dungeons they already have more like the ADnD of old, and they added more metas they wouldn’t need a trinity at all and it would spice up the whole game and bring players back out from LA again.

A system that could work would be a weapon specific mode for each dungeon. I would like to see this done as I greatly miss healing and being part of a trinity group with assigned roles. It would also add some variety to the explore paths of the dungeons. This mode could reward the same 60 tokens, so people will not feel obligated to play it.

When you enter you will be faced with a selection of one of each 5 weapons/sets. Lets say:

Staff: Big AOE nuking style burst damage (Big to compensate for 2 not being DPS based)
Hammer: Strong melee sustained damage (Big to compensate for 2 not being DPS based)
Bow: Hyper condition spreading damage (Big to compensate for 2 not being DPS based)
Scepter + focus: Powerful healing skills (GW1 Monk style)
Sword + shield: Strong defensive (Full out Tank)

This could use the same system Conjure weapons use, but with long duration that will guarantee they remain until the dungeon’s end. To advance each person must pick up a weapon, and once they walk out of the start zone they cannot drop it until the end. The weapon is no longer available once it is picked. To complete you need each person to have one of the special weapons. To make things interesting, let people keep their stats, traits and slot skills.

Hantu.2815:

A system that could work would be a weapon specific mode for each dungeon. I would like to see this done as I greatly miss healing and being part of a trinity group with assigned roles. It would also add some variety to the explore paths of the dungeons. This mode could reward the same 60 tokens, so people will not feel obligated to play it.

When you enter you will be faced with a selection of one of each 5 weapons/sets. Lets say:

Staff: Big AOE nuking style burst damage (Big to compensate for 2 not being DPS based)
Hammer: Strong melee sustained damage (Big to compensate for 2 not being DPS based)
Bow: Hyper condition spreading damage (Big to compensate for 2 not being DPS based)
Scepter + focus: Powerful healing skills (GW1 Monk style)
Sword + shield: Strong defensive (Full out Tank)

This could use the same system Conjure weapons use, but with long duration that will guarantee they remain until the dungeon’s end. To advance each person must pick up a weapon, and once they walk out of the start zone they cannot drop it until the end. The weapon is no longer available once it is picked. To complete you need each person to have one of the special weapons. To make things interesting, let people keep their stats, traits and slot skills.

I kinda like this…

But I get bored sitting around doing nothing in an instance spamming the same buttons over and over

This is the exact reason I quit WoW.

People who HATE WoW type games to keep playing their mindless spam 12345 at a boss that doesn’t move to keep playing their mode.

Again, this is exactly like WoW.

There are plenty of Trinity MMOs
ArenaNet chose to not include it as a mechanic. It was a brave move, right or wrong. Many like it this way, some don’t.

Not having Trinity : Anyone can join in and play. No defined “roles” for players, no hand holding on what you are meant to do in a party, it is up to the people present to figure it out. No gear checks.

Down side: The game does not tell you what your job is in a party. Poor boss fight mechanics. No large scale “raids”, just massive zergs.

If the game maintains a high retention of players, then ArenaNet was right. Time will tell.

Sollith.3502:

As for Gw2, Anet needs to focus more on players developing strategies and adapting to changing variables than roles, gear and such.

For example:

• Divide and Conquer: players should need to find ways to pull enemy groups apart and work their way through more manageable chunks. There needs to be more threat to carelessly attacking an enemy group, in a way that makes players need to go “hmmm… I should work through them this way.” Players should need to study a group for a second before charging in and develop at least some kind of strategy. (For this to work though, spawn rates would need to be worked on; some areas in game are ridiculous, by the time you kill an enemy the timer has reset. Maybe spawn by the group instead of single units? So, that the spawn timer doesn’t start ticking, or just has an extra long period, until after the entire group is killed). At the moment, if you try to “pull” like in Gw1 for instance, you end up with one big group 90% of the time (which makes sense in some scenarios, but there really needs to be a way to allow players to work smartly through enemy forces than have to just brute force it; maybe even spice it up by having some “traps” setup throughout areas players can run back to that insta kill, or do a large amount of damage to, enemies for ambushing and stuff; player ability traps are just condition AOEs, trapping in Gw1 was so much more fun…).
• Patrols and intersecting paths: Players should have to worry about enemies getting “reinforcements” and be able to visually see and time an attack. You see a group of enemies you want to attack, but know that there is a group on a path that comes through this area too; you either have to then attack the “patrol” or wait until you can attack without them joining in. (Very few pathed “patrols” would actually be needed in areas, most of the time a patrol could easily be used to intersect with many groups as they move along).
• Advanced Zerg Detection and Scaling: Mostly for larger events, but scaling based on the number of players in the greater area of the event and then upscaling the event, by adding in multiple sub events branching out almost simultaneously, to fracture a potential zerg, is definitely needed.

Thinking along these lines would do a lot more for Gw2 than doing anything major to the base combat system.

I agree with part about trinity roles, fits in with what was summed up earlier, but the rest, and that’s from technical point of view, is over complicated or really hard to implement. True, it’s easy to make dungeons with patrolling groups of enemies, but then every existing instance would have to be remade, not really easiest part.

What I agree with is group spawns (outside of instances obviously) and revamp on spawn timers, as this would allow for … hmm… synergies(?) between mobs? What I’d like to see is mobs working together, not only attacking same target. I mean combo system, detecting and using debuffs on certain occasions and such. This would make fights much more interesting and less predictable.

Back to dungeons (I know I’m jumping around the topic =/), what imo would help is (I think this has been mentioned way too many times) more diversity in boss fights. Once you get to know one, it’s always the same. Random extra conditions during fights, extra events on random times, more RANDOM skills on bosses, some that would be visible and easy to counter, but deadly if not avoided, and some that would just add confusion to battlefield – great example would be fight with Ice Elemental in FotM… just more of it. Is it a lot of work? Yes. Is it worth it ? Hell yes!

Summing it up again, would be a dream coming true if ANet even at least listened to some of those:

• Build/Traits having MORE impact on how your character plays, bringing us a bit more to trinity while still not forcing any role on anybody.

• Making dungeon encounters more varied, and random (word of the day) to make each and every one of them less predictable, thus more fun.

• Revamp spawn times and rules on open world and make enemies stronger BY making them work together, since we’re supposed to work together as well.

• Add enemies patrolling areas and make their paths intersect with different groups, stay a while in point places (entrances and such) and possibly react to nearby fights.

• Add more branching events/revamp existing to ongoing events, to keep different roles occupied on things they are good at (when we’re closer to having those roles) and make fights less of a spamfest and adapt better to player numbers.

.. Happy New Year !

; ) Hope we see some great additions to GW2 this year, and, six help us, game will only get better ^^

Some reality checks for the OP.

1. Cost
2. Cost
3. Cost
4. Cost
5. The suits forcing devs to work around certain parameters regarding Cost/Profit.

Your intentions are great OP but the above is pure reality. If these MMO’s had unlimited resources GW2 would be truly spectacular, but as it stands, devs want to keep jobs and WILL NOT rock the boat.

Keep that in mind.

Grail, they still have a lot of resources, both time and money ; )

The absence of the Trinity is one of the few game play elements that actually works reasonably well.

The fact that GW2 combat seems shallow and boring is because of other design flaws mostly surrounding

a) poor encounter design
b) limited nature of the boon/condition system
c) and therefore limited impact of combo fields

GW2 has most of the necessary ingredients to become an immersive game it just needs a lot of intelligent iteration (and not what ANet has done thus far).

as Dee just said those are a good portion of the reasons why the combat seems that way , not the holy trinity. As i saw earlier up the post , you already have several games that try to be “wow on crack” and none of them do that well….some have gone a F2P (or a close to a F2P mode anyway) , you dont need the holy trinity in the sense wow has , it doesnt work here.