Guild Wars 2

Prozac Master.1825:

Not sure of your exact meaning there Rizzy… Didn’t ask for more skills, or to be able to kill anything easier, I asked for a slight nerf in existing skills of another class that basically is able to engage 3 or 4 other players, disappear, heal, then re-engage. How about, think, consider, then post?

you said ele or engi and you have a problem with thief? The only difference between what you just described what the thief can do and those 2 classes is that those 2 classes get invulnerabilities and are significantly tankier than the thief.

The ele has more heals, more cc, more build options, same spike, more mobility, more condition removal, better condition, good access to stability, more useful traits, more boons, etc.

The engi has more heals, more cc, more build options, similar spike (higher and lower), better conditions, can be an unkillable tank, good access to stability, ALSO HAS WIDE ACCESS TO STEALTH THROUGH TRAITS, can have perma 200% endurance regen, more boons, etc.

Now if you actually want help I’d suggest going to the thief forums where there are loads of people out there helping players learn how to vs thieves. The way you’re going on about it you probably won’t receive a warm welcome as we have recently been nerfed hard and that has only strengthened the OMG WE COMPLAINED ABOUT THIEF AND IT GOT NERFED SO COMPLAIN MORE AND GET NERFED MORE frame of mind.

Lastly, any class can engage a group of 5 and come out the victor. It’s all in how both sides played. Same reason why 2 eles can kite and kill a zerg. Good players will make strong classes look even stronger than they are.

randomfightfan.4091:

Prozac Master.1825:

Not sure of your exact meaning there Rizzy… Didn’t ask for more skills, or to be able to kill anything easier, I asked for a slight nerf in existing skills of another class that basically is able to engage 3 or 4 other players, disappear, heal, then re-engage. How about, think, consider, then post?

you said ele or engi and you have a problem with thief? The only difference between what you just described what the thief can do and those 2 classes is that those 2 classes get invulnerabilities and are significantly tankier than the thief.

The ele has more heals, more cc, more build options, same spike, more mobility, more condition removal, better condition, good access to stability, more useful traits, more boons, etc.

The engi has more heals, more cc, more build options, similar spike (higher and lower), better conditions, can be an unkillable tank, good access to stability, ALSO HAS WIDE ACCESS TO STEALTH THROUGH TRAITS, can have perma 200% endurance regen, more boons, etc.

Now if you actually want help I’d suggest going to the thief forums where there are loads of people out there helping players learn how to vs thieves. The way you’re going on about it you probably won’t receive a warm welcome as we have recently been nerfed hard and that has only strengthened the OMG WE COMPLAINED ABOUT THIEF AND IT GOT NERFED SO COMPLAIN MORE AND GET NERFED MORE frame of mind.

Lastly, any class can engage a group of 5 and come out the victor. It’s all in how both sides played. Same reason why 2 eles can kite and kill a zerg. Good players will make strong classes look even stronger than they are.

hmmm, that makes sense, I somewhat disagree with “…the going about it…”, I mean, it is a game and a suggestion is only a suggestion, ppl seem as though it’s a personal insult, it’s hilarious and sad at the same time. I do; however, like the rest of your answer, it makes sense.

Well tonight I came across 3 level 80 thieves taking out one of our supply camps in WvW. They had the supervisor down and the only npcs left were a guard and a scout. I took them all out with my Guardian. However I know how to handle thieves as I have a level 80 thief of my own. The easiest way to find the weakness of a particular class is to play that class.

the way you counter a thief is you wait for him to uncloak by either accepting a hit or waiting for him to uncloak have your party just cc lock him when he try to all cloak skills have a cast bar you can skill lock them with correctly timed CC.

Theftwind.8976:

Well tonight I came across 3 level 80 thieves taking out one of our supply camps in WvW. They had the supervisor down and the only npcs left were a guard and a scout. I took them all out with my Guardian. However I know how to handle thieves as I have a level 80 thief of my own. The easiest way to find the weakness of a particular class is to play that class.

Yeah guardians are very good at countering thieves if you know guardian well (and thief knowledge helps too). Their ability to survive a massive burst and recover from it makes them ideal. Plus they have pretty good cc especially for groups.

NinjaEd.3946:

Theftwind.8976:

Well tonight I came across 3 level 80 thieves taking out one of our supply camps in WvW. They had the supervisor down and the only npcs left were a guard and a scout. I took them all out with my Guardian. However I know how to handle thieves as I have a level 80 thief of my own. The easiest way to find the weakness of a particular class is to play that class.

Yeah guardians are very good at countering thieves if you know guardian well (and thief knowledge helps too). Their ability to survive a massive burst and recover from it makes them ideal. Plus they have pretty good cc especially for groups.

Great points by both Theftwind and NinjaEd, I think I’m starting to see.

I have played ~550 hours on a thief. I have also played around ~200-300 hours on a mesmer and warrior, with a bit less time on a Guardian and Engineer. Here are my observations:

One of the things you must understand is that thieves, unless specifically traited for it, do not have access to good condition removal. Withdraw removes crippled/chilled/immobilize and Hide in Shadows removes burning, poison, and bleeding, possibly 2 more conditions if you trait into condition removal on stealth. Slap lots of chill/immobilize/cripple on a thief and once they have spent their condi removal they will have a hard time running away. Mobility is key to their survival.

They also have weak stunbreakers. Haste causes you to lose all endurance so it is not a viable stunbreaker. Shadowstep has a 50 second cooldown unless you trait for it. Infiltrator’s signet teleports you to your enemy, which, depending on how the fight is going may not be a good idea. It is, however, their shortest cooldown stunbreaker. Roll for initiative has a 60 second cooldown. If they go sword mainhand they gain access to another stunbreaker with infiltrator’s strike. Keep in mind that they do not have stability without dagger storm, so if you can constantly apply daze, knockdown, and stun to a thief, they are extremely vulnerable.

As for stealth. A thief that is in stealth is not doing damage, and the more trait points a thief invests into enhancing their stealth, the less they have invested into offensive potential. Shadow refuge is easy to counter. Spam AoE on the area they drop the refuge. Blinding powder lasts only 3 seconds and has a fairly long cooldown (40 seconds).

TheKillerAngel.3596:

I have played ~550 hours on a thief. I have also played around ~200-300 hours on a mesmer and warrior, with a bit less time on a Guardian and Engineer. Here are my observations:

One of the things you must understand is that thieves, unless specifically traited for it, do not have access to good condition removal. Withdraw removes crippled/chilled/immobilize and Hide in Shadows removes burning, poison, and bleeding, possibly 2 more conditions if you trait into condition removal on stealth. Slap lots of chill/immobilize/cripple on a thief and once they have spent their condi removal they will have a hard time running away. Mobility is key to their survival.

They also have weak stunbreakers. Haste causes you to lose all endurance so it is not a viable stunbreaker. Shadowstep has a 50 second cooldown unless you trait for it. Infiltrator’s signet teleports you to your enemy, which, depending on how the fight is going may not be a good idea. It is, however, their shortest cooldown stunbreaker. Roll for initiative has a 60 second cooldown. If they go sword mainhand they gain access to another stunbreaker with infiltrator’s strike. Keep in mind that they do not have stability without dagger storm, so if you can constantly apply daze, knockdown, and stun to a thief, they are extremely vulnerable.

As for stealth. A thief that is in stealth is not doing damage, and the more trait points a thief invests into enhancing their stealth, the less they have invested into offensive potential. Shadow refuge is easy to counter. Spam AoE on the area they drop the refuge. Blinding powder lasts only 3 seconds and has a fairly long cooldown (40 seconds).

So, would it be safe to say that, in your mind, if my original suggestion to possibly deny the ability on stealth after knockdown were followed, it would effectually render the thief useless?

If you knock them down and they pop stealth, hit them with another pull/knockback/stun. They will still be down on the ground for 1-2 seconds unless they use a stunbreaker. Chain stun/daze/knockdown is the thief’s bane because they have only 1 skill that grants stability, and even when they use dagger storm some skills can still break it.

TheKillerAngel.3596:

They also have weak stunbreakers. Haste causes you to lose all endurance so it is not a viable stunbreaker. Shadowstep has a 50 second cooldown unless you trait for it. Infiltrator’s signet teleports you to your enemy, which, depending on how the fight is going may not be a good idea. It is, however, their shortest cooldown stunbreaker. Roll for initiative has a 60 second cooldown. If they go sword mainhand they gain access to another stunbreaker with infiltrator’s strike. Keep in mind that they do not have stability without dagger storm, so if you can constantly apply daze, knockdown, and stun to a thief, they are extremely vulnerable.

(40 seconds).

Although not specified and not a true breaker, steal (profession skill) does break stun depending on how you look at it. If traited to give 2 seconds of stealth on steal, yeah it works great actually although you arn’t moving until the stun wears off. But you could also click a target and steal and evade a certain spot gaining that extra second or 2 to retaliate or retreat.

Infiltrators signet can be used when no target is selected so the thief can choose to teleport onto the target (breaking the stun) or stand in place (breaking the stun). Tbh any stun breaker at 30 or less second cooldown is really good and effective.

Theives don’t have good condition removal, but they do have various ways to stay alive while in stealth from either stealth regen or cond removal after 3 seconds of stealth, or from the haste + signet of agility set-up (haste being your stun breaker, SoA fixing the no endurance problem as well as removing a condition).

There are ways to build thieves very strong in offence while maintaining their overall survivability from working around stealth. There are also ways to completely avoid any stealth on a thief but like any profession, if it’s there you might as well use it when you get the chance.