Guild Wars 2

Basically my question is this – who pollinates the Pale Tree?

Most trees reproduce sexually – the ones that are asexual reproduce by sending shoots up from their own roots. If a tree reproduces by spreading seeds or nuts (i.e., the Sylvari pods), then that’s an indication of sexual reproduction. Perhaps other Pale Trees (like Malyck’s) can have their pollen carried on the wind or on insects to pollinate our own Pale Tree?

Or maybe the devs decided to ignore this bit of biology for the sake of fantasy. Not saying anything’s wrong with that, I’m only speculating. One could even say that Ronan is the Sylvari’s father, since the Pale Tree modeled her children after the humans, him being the first human that she knew of.

What do you guys think?

Actually, I believe that the Pale Tree talks about her branches if you visit the Avatar of the Tree with a character that is not a sylvari. She means the sylvari with these branches. That would imply that sylvari are part of the Pale Tree. Not reproductions.

schizandra.4587:

Basically my question is this – who pollinates the Pale Tree?

I do

It is a lonely and kinky existence, but I get by.

I know the Pale Tree refers to the sylvari as her children but I’m not convinced they’re actually offspring in the usual sense, and therefore they don’t necessarily have to be a product of reproduction, sexual or otherwise.

As far as we know all sylvari are infertile. It is possible that they just take a relatively long time to mature and simply haven’t lived long enough yet but the information we’ve got from Anet so far is simply that they cannot reproduce. Now either that’s one heck of a crap reproductive stratergy, there’s something wrong with the Pale Tree and she is incapable of producing fertile offspring for some reason or it’s because sylvari are not a direct part of the tree’s life cycle. None of them have shown any indication of turning into new trees either so they don’t seem to be sentient seeds either.

I actually made a thread in the Lore forum a while back asking how they could fit into the trees life cycle and one suggestion I really liked is that they’re a sort of defense mechanism. The Pale Tree became aware of the threat posed by the dragons and produced the sylvari as a way of protecting herself from them and other threats. Maybe once the dragons are gone she will go into flower and, if possible, produce seeds which will grow into new trees.

Alternatively maybe Ronan is their father and that explains the infertility. Most hybrids (ie. mules, ligers, peppermint) are infertile, although there are exceptions.

Finally, IMO the most boring explaination, many plants and some animals are capable of self-fertilisation, although they usually avoid it unless there are no other options.

I think the Sylvari aren’t actually offspring in the sense that an apple is the offsrping of an apple tree, rather Sylvari are more akin to a flower or a leaf that only grows in response to certain stimuli.

:) Interesting topic! Since we (Sylvari) are all connected through the Dream (giving us something of a Hive-mind) would that not mean that instead of being considered offspring, we are rather “extensions” of the community?

Like bees, ants or the Borg! As for the “Father” concept, do we have somebody familiar with how bees and ants reproduce? Could the Sylvari be viewed like that?

It’s a wonderful area to explore. Since the Sylvari contribute experiences to the Dream and the Dream then uses those experiences to educate future Sylvari, it could be seen that all existing Sylvari are contributing to the next generation. . .although it could also be seen the same way as how a younger sibling can have an easier time in school due to the parents’ experience with educating the older sibling.

Ronan apparently found the Seed from which the Pale Tree grew in a cave, with more such Seeds close by. He only took the one, and planted it in a part of Maguuma Jungle named Arbor Bay. And the rest is history.

Some notes:
- The Seed must have already been pollinated when Ronan found it.
- One of the Sylvari personal storylines (level 11-20, based on the choice “Where life goes…”) hints that there may be another sylvari tree somewhere out there. Perhaps this other tree is male? Perhaps it grew out of one of the other seeds in the cave?

If you notice, male Sylvari have a leaf covering their junk, so that in turn to me means if i wanted to reproduce now i could! =D

Sovereign.3684:

If you notice, male Sylvari have a leaf covering their junk, so that in turn to me means if i wanted to reproduce now i could! =D

It’s been confirmed that sylvari sexual organs are functional for pleasure but not for reproduction.

Can’t some species of plants pollinate themselves? Maybe that’s the case with the pale tree.

Sylvari could be haploids. Haploids that are produced from unfertilised gametes do not have fathers (but they do have grandfathers).

Plants reproduce via haploid offspring. Ants and bees also produce haploid males from unfertilised eggs. Given that Sylvari are plants and a hive race it almost seems inevitable that they are the haploid stage of their species.

Haploids of flowering plants are not at all like their diploid mother. Pollen is actually a haploid plant, but with only a few cells. While plants usually produce fertile haploid “offspring” (these combine to produce a new diploid offspring – e.g. a new tree), I imagine it would be possible for a “hive plant” to produce infertile haploid offspring that are not used for reproduction. Sylvari could be similar to ant and bees, used as workers and warriors rather than for reproduction. The Pale Tree would be the queen.

Presumably, if the pale tree was pollinated, it would produce new pale trees.

However, it’s not impossible that the Sylvari themselves could serve as pollen, but only for other trees (and not with each other). For genetic reasons in might take two Sylari to pollinate one tree.

The genetics of sexual reproduction of plants and hive insects is pretty complicated, and when you combine the possibilities into a hive plant all sorts of weird things could occur.

Not sure if my lore is completely accurate. So the Pale Tree produces the sylvari race, but is that truly considered reproduction? The Sylvari race aren’t seeds for a new tree nor do they seem to have the capability to create new Pale Trees. It seems they are more or less an extension of the tree. Ronan found seeds in a cave. Where do the seeds for a Pale Tree come from? In the Sylvari storyline you learn there is another tree somewhere. There hasn’t been much lore on where these seeds come from. Sylvari can’t reporduce with each other, but maybe thats because they are all from the same tree. As they are a young race and not fully explained yet the lore seems to be directed more at the Sylvari from this one tree rather than all Sylvari eveywhere. Maybe if they have sexual relations with other Sylvari from different Pale Trees you get different results.

Dustfinger.9510:

Sovereign.3684:

If you notice, male Sylvari have a leaf covering their junk, so that in turn to me means if i wanted to reproduce now i could! =D

It’s been confirmed that sylvari sexual organs are functional for pleasure but not for reproduction.

… Well, I’ll certainly let Tiathus know…

On a non-biological note: the faery king from folklore (Oberon) was often depicted as less benign or even evil, compared to the faery queen.

Also, in many myths the king was absent from the court, or turned renegade or rebel, or fighting with the queen (as in a Midsummer Nights Dream). Sometimes this was related to cycles of nature – when the king is absent, nature is in discord, when the king and queen are together, balance is restored.

Since Sylvari are based on Celtic myth, it could be that the father figure is a less benign tree than the Pale tree, and his absence could be intentional.

Wanderer.3248:

On a non-biological note: the faery king from folklore (Oberon) was often depicted as less benign or even evil, compared to the faery queen.

Also, in many myths the king was absent from the court, or turned renegade or rebel, or fighting with the queen (as in a Midsummer Nights Dream). Sometimes this was related to cycles of nature – when the king is absent, nature is in discord, when the king and queen are together, balance is restored.

Since Sylvari are based on Celtic myth, it could be that the father figure is a less benign tree than the Pale tree, and his absence could be intentional.

If I remember correctly there’s a similar system with the God and Goddess in Wicca. The God is absent for part of the year because he dies on Samhain (Halloween) and then is reborn on another Sabbat (Ostara or Beltane I think) and the world ‘dies’ with him by entering winter to be ‘reborn’ in the spring. Meanwhile the Goddess continues, simply cycling through her 3 forms.

It’s definitely another possibility, especially when combined with the fact that some animals and plants have very different forms and life cycles for males and females. Maybe we’ve seen the sylvari’s father but we didn’t even recognise him as being the same species. Or maybe he lives tucked up at the top of the Pale Tree somewhere we can’t reach him.

I just hope ANet doesn’t go the route of the “Father” being the reason why we have the Nightmare which eventually helped spawn the Court. I know it was started by one smarmy Secondborn, but still if they pull something like that on us it won’t be entertaining.

Atlas.9704:

I just hope ANet doesn’t go the route of the “Father” being the reason why we have the Nightmare which eventually helped spawn the Court. I know it was started by one smarmy Secondborn, but still if they pull something like that on us it won’t be entertaining.

They wont.
Ventari is the sort of intellectual father figure for most Sylvari and the game makes that very clear. The Nightmare Court exist to try and eradicate that ‘external’ influence and essentially purify the tree. Adding an actual father who has caused the NC to come into being would immediately devalue the NC’s actions. The NC believe what they are doing is for the greater good of all Sylvari, they’re wrong, but it’s about what they believe. I don’t think Anet would undermine that so we should be safe xD.