Guild Wars 2

Siphaed.9235:

Lord Kuru.3685:

So Marjory is now an expert in poisons. You think Anet’s slowling going to make her into a Mary Sue to counter Scarlet’s Villain Sue?

And I think that everyone who makes a “Mary Sue” thread is a Mary Sue. Really ridiculous…..

She’s a professional detective and a Necromancer. The former makes her an expert in detecting things, and the latter makes her an expert in undead necromancy and poisons (both common Necromancer abilities).

Logic trumps stereotyping every time.

Agreed. It fits her profile, and besides, she’s not neccesarily the one developing a cure, she’s just part of the team that does.

Noviere.7309:

Petra and her Dad should be investigating the new Krait menace instead of Kasmeer and Jory. That way players won’t feel intimidated.

LMAO

i like marjory and kasmeer, found them more interesting than any npc’s Ive seen in a while

I suppose Marjory will become a Mary Sue when it becomes public knowledge that her parents were killed by a grizwhirled Thief in a shady backalley in Divinity’s Reach when she was 8 years old. She then got training in all martial arts and fighting styles known to Man, Charr and Skritt and studied hard to become the CEO of Uzolan Corp. and uses its technologies to act out her role as the best detective in the World, while also being a billionaire playgirl, industrialist, and philanthropist.

Also, lets not forget about Kasmeer whose parents died in a circus accident, who was than taken in by Marjory who trained her to become her side kick.

Na-Na-Na-Na-Na-Na-Na-Na,
Na-Na-Na-Na-Na-Na-Na-Na,
Delaqua!

To the Marjory-Mobile!

Good to see I wasn’t the only one that had the Batman idea haha.

My own character is a Mary Sue – a spoiled, rich brat who knuckled down after personal tragedies to become the Commander of the Pact, one of the most powerful and influential individuals in the entire world, an expert in all forms of melee weaponry, a slayer of hundreds of thousands of evildoers, a personal friend to Logan Thackery and the royalty of Divinity’s Reach, handsome, has fabulous hair, endless resources for purchasing the finest glowing, sparkling weaponry and armour known to the races of Tyria – not that he would need to, what with being a Grandmaster Armor and Weaponsmith and able to craft weapons that would make the Gods weep with envy – and has faced down a elder dragon, defeating it without even displacing a lock of his achingly fabulous hair.

Plot Twist: The Name of the Kraitboss, to fit the whole batman theme, will be Killer Krait.
He will be accompanied by the Quagguin(Penguin), Skritt Woman and Maklain the Minstril simply because he has a similar fashion sense like the riddler. there could also be another Quaggan based on Twoface by the name of Qooface.

oh god, now i am giving them ideas…

UnrealUK.9506:

My own character is a Mary Sue – a spoiled, rich brat who knuckled down after personal tragedies to become the Commander of the Pact, one of the most powerful and influential individuals in the entire world, an expert in all forms of melee weaponry, a slayer of hundreds of thousands of evildoers, a personal friend to Logan Thackery and the royalty of Divinity’s Reach, handsome, has fabulous hair, endless resources for purchasing the finest glowing, sparkling weaponry and armour known to the races of Tyria – not that he would need to, what with being a Grandmaster Armor and Weaponsmith and able to craft weapons that would make the Gods weep with envy – and has faced down a elder dragon, defeating it without even displacing a lock of his achingly fabulous hair.

But everything changed when the Molten Alliance attacked.
Now Lord Faren, the Last of his Race, is our only chance to save the world with his horrible pickup lines and overall goofiness. May the six be with us.

Lets get rid of this term Mary Sue. It is inappropriate for GW2.

In GW2 the player characters do not drive the living story. Any player character can replace another at any time, as a principle of the design. This means that a character cannot be an expert in anything, needs not to have done anything, need no friends, and needs no reputation. So how is the story driven? It is driven through non-player characters that have expertise, have friends, have deeds, have a reputation, etc. These non-player characters need to be capable or else the story goes nowhere. It does not make every single character into a ‘Mary Sue’!

Tacking random abilities onto a character because the plot demands it and it saves on introducing a new character might not be the best writing practice (though a necro being a poison expert isn’t all that much of a kitten-pull), but it doesn’t make that character a Mary/Villain/Whatever Sue.

Coldin.2840:

Man do people love to toss out the term “Mary Sue” whenever there’s a female NPC that’s good at something.

Trahearne is a girl?

Noviere.7309:

Petra and her Dad should be investigating the new Krait menace instead of Kasmeer and Jory. That way players won’t feel intimidated.

I think we’d mostly be confused that characters from the personal story are being used.

Lostwingman.5034:

Lord Kuru.3685:

So Marjory is now an expert in poisons. You think Anet’s slowling going to make her into a Mary Sue to counter Scarlet’s Villain Sue?

idk…she is supposed to be some kind of detective right?
Some kind of expertise in poisons would seem to come with the territory.

She was already an expert in poisons, by assumption.

Comes with the territory of being Tyria’s best detective. Tyria. The place where everyone uses poisoned weapons/tools. An entire race(Hylek) revolves around them for survival.

I hope she doesn’t go the sue route, but this isn’t ample evidence just yet, in my opinion.

Piecekeeper.4361:

You’re character has the respect of their home nation, has helped defeat Zaitan, is involved in every major world event and killed thousands of villainous creatures, and can do just about anything you can imagine.

OMG!!! Every single one of our characters is a Mary Sue!!!

What a TWIIIIIIIST!

ANET, KILL OFF THE PLAYER CHARACTER ALREADY!

I’m unclear how a capable female in a leading role who also manages to maintain a strong degree of femininity in her dress and manner could be considered a Gurl. So no, I have not noticed any such developments.

What’s with these “mary sue” discussions popping up every time some npc plays some role? I can sort of understand people calling Scarlet villain sue but Marjory? We have hardly seen her and this is the first time we see her in action.

We could ask the same thing about Kasmeer since she actually brought down the veil easily or queen Jennah who is master illusionist, queen, master diplomat etc etc.

Personally Marjory is one of my favorite characters along with Tybalt because she is capable without being outright annoying. Not to mention I love her voice.

Mad King Thorn is mary sue at being one of the better if not the best villain at the moment, even being the joke character he is.

They should have imo introduced better a new npc, thats a thief, they are the true masters of poisons, not necromancers.

Marjory as a detective should have to deal with an other job, than making an antidote…
She should better deal with investigations for the krait, why they have become, what they became and what they motives are for their actions, thats her job as an detective and not playing the wannabe nurse for everybody >.>

Orpheal.8263:

They should have imo introduced better a new npc, thats a thief, they are the true masters of poisons, not necromancers.

Marjory as a detective should have to deal with an other job, than making an antidote…
She should better deal with investigations for the krait, why they have become, what they became and what they motives are for their actions, thats her job as an detective and not playing the wannabe nurse for everybody >.>

A) Thieves are just denial mages that wear clothing for mobility and use dexterity-focused weapons. They’re not masters of poisons any more than rangers or necromancers are.

B) Introducing a new character? We’ve had enough of that. Anet is doing it right to continue developing the ones we have.

C) She’s Tyria’s foremost mind on poisons, as far as I know, seconded only by the Order of Whispers, who are probably also on the scene somewhere. Secondly, everyone uses poisons. Rangers, thieves, necromancers, the hylek race in general, the Inquest, bandits, etc. It’s a detective’s business to know about the most common ways to kill someone in the interest of case expertise.

D) It’s hard to do investigation on a tower you can’t reach for fear of dying due to a horrible neurotoxin filling your lungs. The easily forgotten step to solving a case is ensuring that it doesn’t kill you.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thief
They are the expertised class, that uses poisons in combat to enhance their weapons with them, no other class does that. The only simple poison that the other classes deal are through the poison condition. Thats no expertise for me alone.

Sure, a detective has to know something about poisons, they need to have the ability to identificate poisons, to get to know, how with which kind of poison sombody got killed. Thats it.. they surely have absolutely not the expertise how to brew antidotes for such deadly poisons, like neurotoxins, thats way far out of their league of expertism and simply goes too for for my personal taste.

This is something you expect from a real master of poisons, like the thief, who handles as a master of deadly arts all kinds of the most deadly poisons under their kitten nal.
One who works with the most deadly poisons and is able to brew such deadly poisons, like Lotus Poison, something also already used in GW1 lore among Assassins, the spiritual pre-profession of the thief, that also have a traited called after it, or have I to remember you on skill like:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Black_Lotus_Strike
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lotus_Strike
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Golden_Lotus_Strike
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Falling_Lotus_Strike
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Way_of_the_Lotus

However, Lotus Flower Extracts were also not seen only as poisons, mostly also as a kind of empowering “drug”. Thats why the skills in GW1 here were more of a kind of self healng empowering kind of way, cause it was possible due to GW1s different Energy System.

Theres nothing wrong with introducing new characters over the time of the living story, only because you seem to prefer Marjory as a wannabe nurse that deals with poisons, when she should do better investigations about the Krait, totally regardless if you can enter the tower now, or not, there are also alot of krait outside of the tower and you can make outside of it also investigations by capturing a krait alive and “force” them to give us informations that we want, if they aren’t willing to speak freely, be it either through necromantic tortures, mesmeristic mind controls (Kasmeer), or simply through brute force from a warrior breaking some bones (Braham) until the victim does some straight talking finally.

A kind of new story npc, somebody like a far far reached out descendant from Nika, the assassin from Cantha would be somebody fitting i could think of to fill up that point for a thief NPC, just to show us by that way too, that Anet also doesn#t have forgotton, that there are other Continents and characters that could come from different continents, than Tyria and could be out of various reasons for the moment in Tyria…be it by accicent, by invitation, by simple fate/coincedence or whatever.

Mhenlo in GW1 was a heroic NPC, that had also too wide connections that reached from Tyria over to Cantha. SO why shouldn’t have somebody like expecially Queen Jennah for example same as good, if not even much better widespread connections all over Tyria to invite special experts from other Continents to Tyria, when they Tyria is in dire need of such a kind of specialists.

However again, this is just dream talk, so it could naturally also be just simply an expert thief npc from the own continent. All I want to say is, that I personalyl think it would hav fitted alot better, of that antidote maker would have beeen a new thief npc and not Marjory. Marjory should still be part of the whole living story, but I just see her at a total different place as an detective, more in an active role and as said not as the antidote brewer that has nothing better to do that to play the wannabe nurse for all.

And as last words – thieves are no mages in any kind of way, thats pure nonsense.
They use professionally all kinds of venoms, no other class does it, so they are the masters of poisons, this is simply fact and on that can you say, what you want . This is just straight clear. Just being able only to let enemies suffer on the poison condition alone makes no class an expert, like rangers and necromancers.
The only thign those 2 classes do with poison it letting their enemiessuffer on the poisonconditions, its in now wax professionally part of their class design, like its the case for the thief, where venoms are a professional part of their utility skills at their current class design (I’d prefer to see that gettign finally redesigned to let that become their F-Mechanics to give them more Skill Variety and to make thiefs more unpredictable, what they should be as masters of the deadly arts and descendants from canthan assassins)

Orpheal.8263:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thief
They are the expertised class, that uses poisons in combat to enhance their weapons with them, no other class does that. The only simple poison that the other classes deal are through the poison condition. Thats no expertise for me alone.

And as last words – thieves are no mages in any kind of way, thats pure nonsense.
They use professionally all kinds of venoms, no other class does it, so they are the masters of poisons, this is simply fact and on that can you say, what you want . This is just straight clear. Just being able only to let enemies suffer on the poison condition alone makes no class an expert, like rangers and necromancers.
The only thign those 2 classes do with poison it letting their enemiessuffer on the poisonconditions, its in now wax professionally part of their class design, like its the case for the thief, where venoms are a professional part of their utility skills at their current class design (I’d prefer to see that gettign finally redesigned to let that become their F-Mechanics to give them more Skill Variety and to make thiefs more unpredictable, what they should be as masters of the deadly arts and descendants from canthan assassins)

a) Theives have nothing to do with assassins from GW1 except keeping their fighting style, thus the fighting style of every person from Cantha in existence since forever.
b) Assassins being priests of grenth had MAGIC which they also used in the assassinations/rituals when kitten hit the fan, the most prominent/known 2 being Shadow Form and Shroud of Distress; making a bigger gap between the 2.
c) Necromancers, having absolute control over life force, blood flow and hard tied to the underworld are probably better at finding out a poison that hits your nervous system and causes hallucinations than a petty street rat that takes sweet rolls who is the grand-grand-grand-grandson of a kitten that was too stupid to use a defensive skill when under 50% hp because she is horny for a bald masochistic “guy”.

No, Marjory isn’t comparable at all to Scarlet.

Marjory and Kasmeer are actually likeable characters (and there were some bits of dialogue between them that were never included in the game, found by data miners, that make them even more likeable), and it isn’t like they can do literally everything as Scarlet can.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I’m unclear how a capable female in a leading role who also manages to maintain a strong degree of femininity in her dress and manner could be considered a Gurl. So no, I have not noticed any such developments.

She feels more like she based on a 30s male detective. At any rate I like Marjory’s character. I wish she was working alone though. it takes away from what they coulda done with her to have her buddies with Kassmeer. feels tacked on & weird. She seems like she’d be much more of a loner.

perilisk.1874:

Coldin.2840:

Man do people love to toss out the term “Mary Sue” whenever there’s a female NPC that’s good at something.

Trahearne is a girl?

Trahearne was good at something?

She’s a Necromancer and a detective. Considering how much poison Necros spam, I think it’s legit.

I thought that quip was pretty funny because of the character, rather than the race.

To be fair the Aetherblades are your norn-Charr-human-inquest alliance.

Marjory’s not a Mary Sue. She got ganked by the Oratuss in 10 or so seconds in the instance. Then Kasmeer ran over and revived her. Aww!

But yeah, I agree with the others that considering Marjory’s a Necromancer, and their frequent use of Poison, having her be an expert with poisons isn’t all that unusual. What WOULD make her a Mary Sue is if she picked up a Spore Sample and went, “AHA! This is a Krait Fungaldeath. It’s exceedingly rare and only a handful of people in the world even know it exists! Fortunately, I just happened to have run across it in my past travels and know just the antidote…”

Lord Kuru.3685:

So Marjory is now an expert in poisons. You think Anet’s slowling going to make her into a Mary Sue to counter Scarlet’s Villain Sue?

Being a detective who is a necromancer that happens to know stuff in poisons (nothing says she’s an expert on poisons btw) makes perfect sense, actually.

Necromancers deal greatly in decay, disease, and poison. So it’s only natural that they’d be dealing in antidotes. Wouldn’t want to be caught up in your own weapons, after all.

So long as Marjory doesn’t become good at everything – which is more or less how Scarlet is – then Marjory won’t become a Mary Sue. And let’s face it, she isn’t good at everything. I mean, her own background has a fault for her – she’s not the best necromancer there is out there.

So no, Marjory’s not becoming a Mar(jor)y Sue.

Scarlet isn’t a Mary Sue because she’s a great engineer. She’s a Mary Sue (or Villain Sue or w/e) because everybody likes her and lets her do whatever she wants (see her backstory), she can somehow do the impossible (unite oppressor haters (dredge) with oppressors (Flame Legion); unite xenophobics (krait) with tormentors (Nightmare Court)), knows just about everything, takes no consequences for failures (her failing at the Jubilee and TA held no effect on her character whatsoever), and almost always never fail herself (only when the PC are involved does she fail). She is just about “perfect” in every way – this is why she’s a Villain Sue. It’s mainly her background – that she somehow did something no asura could (pass all three colleges – until a redacting interview), did something nearly no norn could (become Beigarth’s, the greatest modern norn blacksmith, apprentice), can do something few charr can (learn from a stubborn old expert sniper), and did stuff no one else did and survived (survive that sensory deprivation device – and until a redacting interview, witness the Eternal Alchemy).

As well as being a detective and a necromancer, Majory use to be a member of the Ministry Guard. Unless the nobles of DR differ greatly from our own, poison is usually a weapon of choice to kill of rival nobles in court. She could have picked up a lot of knowledge on the subject, before she left the Ministry Guard. Different types of poisons, how they effect the body, how they are made, where they originate from, and how expensive they are.

If there was ever a suspicious death, or outright murder by poison, it would have been her job to investigate it and learn as much as she could about it.

DarksunG.9537:

Kal Spiro.9745:

I’m unclear how a capable female in a leading role who also manages to maintain a strong degree of femininity in her dress and manner could be considered a Gurl. So no, I have not noticed any such developments.

She feels more like she based on a 30s male detective. At any rate I like Marjory’s character. I wish she was working alone though. it takes away from what they coulda done with her to have her buddies with Kassmeer. feels tacked on & weird. She seems like she’d be much more of a loner.

If you bother to stand next to them for any significant length of time, it’s obvious they’re in a relationship, and care very deeply and romantically for one another.

Whether that’s hardcore slashfest or bromance is up to your personal interpretations, but that ship is sailing hard.

Marjsmeer? Kasjory? hmm, gotta be a name in there somewhere.

Tentacle Love.3412:

DarksunG.9537:

Kal Spiro.9745:

I’m unclear how a capable female in a leading role who also manages to maintain a strong degree of femininity in her dress and manner could be considered a Gurl. So no, I have not noticed any such developments.

She feels more like she based on a 30s male detective. At any rate I like Marjory’s character. I wish she was working alone though. it takes away from what they coulda done with her to have her buddies with Kassmeer. feels tacked on & weird. She seems like she’d be much more of a loner.

If you bother to stand next to them for any significant length of time, it’s obvious they’re in a relationship, and care very deeply and romantically for one another.

Whether that’s hardcore slashfest or bromance is up to your personal interpretations, but that ship is sailing hard.

Marjsmeer? Kasjory? hmm, gotta be a name in there somewhere.

It seems to be more of a “love that dares not speak it’s name” kind of thing at the moment. They both seem to care about the other, but are scared to admit it.